Author Topic: Cataloging and playing DSD files  (Read 54021 times)

frankcreed

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Hi Steven,

First of all, thank you so much for implementing DSD support!  I had to use foobar to play my DSD files (only 0.5% of my collection, but still :-)).

So, all of my DSD files now show up in my inbox.  However, it does not appear as if MB is recognizing the metadata.  According to MP3tag, my DSD metadata is in ID3v2.3, but it is not showing up in MB (and is recognized by foobar).

Let me know if I can provide any additional data.

Steven

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frankcreed

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sorry about replying to my own post ;-).  MB does recognize that it is a DSD64 or DSD128 file with correct bitrate, samplerate, & duration, and also recognizes embedded artwork, but no ID3v2.3 metadata.

EDIT: DSD sample rate in MB is incorrect.  Samplerate should be 2.8MHz for DSD64 and 5.6MHz for DSD128.  MB shows 88 KHz samplerate, and this is what my DAC sees (LH Labs Geek Out).
Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 11:10:31 PM by frankcreed

Steven

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for the tags, i can see MB needs to change where it looks so i will address that

Alumni

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Ok I just tested this by adding a DSF file to MusicBee, fully tagged with Mp3tag, and MusicBee doesn't recognize any of the metadata, however the file does play properly.

Steven

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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_5/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

- tags for DSD files should now be correctly read
- re: the sample rate, for the source file sample rate, you multiply by 44100 eg. DSD64 = 2822400 kHz. The 88.2 number is the output sample rate
- according to the BASS developer for now, only decoding to PCM is supported. He will look at enhancing the ASIO handling to detect ASIO devices that can natively decode DSD files and send the file as a DSD file but he is not promising this will be done. I am not sure what advantage playing the DSD file natively would give as PCM is lossless anyway
- when converting the sound ito PCM, the samplerate used is 88.2. In my view thats a sensible output rate but it can be set higher eg. 176400 or 352800. But what do other players use?
edit:
trying now with foobar, its using 88.2 for PCM sample rate - not sure if it supports sending the file as a native DSD file to appropriate devices

Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 08:41:45 PM by Steven

Alumni

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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_5/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

- tags for DSD files should now be correctly read
- re: the sample rate, for the source file sample rate, you multiply by 44100 eg. DSD64 = 2822400 kHz. The 88.2 number is the output sample rate
- according to the BASS developer for now, only decoding to PCM is supported. He will look at enhancing the ASIO handling to detect ASIO devices that can natively decode DSD files and send the file as a DSD file but he is not promising this will be done. I am not sure what advantage playing the DSD file natively would give as PCM is lossless anyway
- when converting the sound ito PCM, the samplerate used is 88.2. In my view thats a sensible output rate but it can be set higher eg. 176400 or 352800. But what do other players use?
edit:
trying now with foobar, its using 88.2 for PCM sample rate - not sure if it supports sending the file as a native DSD file to appropriate devices

Thanks for the update. I don't mean to sound like a buzzkill here, but there isn't much of a reason to use DSD files unless they can be played back natively, since the format was designed specifically for its "bit perfect" playback chain. PCM can sound almost as good, but never quite the same. As to whether or not the average person will notice the difference, that's for another discussion.

Foobar is able to play DSD natively, instructions found here: http://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000
Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 02:04:21 AM by Alumni

frankcreed

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Hi Steven,

First of all, thanks for your fix.  MB now recognizes DSD tags.

Secondly, I agree with Alumni - the whole point of DSD support should be to play it natively.  From what I understand, the DSD -> PCM conversion is not lossless.  Whether it is audible is another question.

There are multiple other players that do support native DSD playback: foobar (with plugins), Jriver, Audiovana (Mac).

Anyway, thanks again for your support and a wonderful player!

Steven

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the bass developer has enhanced the DSD plugin so
- DSD-over-PCM data (DOP) can be sent to the device  - this will require a new configuration setting in MB so you tell MB your device supports it
- raw DSD data to asio devices - it appears that BASS can make an automatic detection if the device supports it but its not completely clear
- in both cases any equaliser, DSP or volume leveling adjustments cant be made (or if they are made then the DSD file will be converted to PCM as now)

I will try and make the changes on the weekend

frankcreed

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Hi Steven,

Thank you once again!  I'd be happy to test any changes :-).

bidib62

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Hi

Does this change must operate with dsf files ? (currently , with the patch my tag files are not identified).
Thanks for the work...

Steven

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bidib62

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Thanks for your answer
I'm stupid, I did not rescan the files...
Now it works !!!
Good job.
Can I use the Volume Analyzer (Album Gain) too ?

Steven

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not for now - MB only supports reading tags, not writing. I am not sure when i will do that

Steven

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unzip and replace the existing files where MB is installed:
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_5/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

This version plays the raw DSD files to ASIO devices, but only when you have no equaliser/ sound effects or replay gain active and only if the ASIO device supports the sample rate of the DSD file. If any is not true then  the DSD file is converted to PCM at 88.2kHz

I cant test this myself so i would appreciate feedback either way that its working. Also its not clear to me that the BASS library is able to accurately auto-detect when the ASIO device does support decoding native DSD data