I accidentally deleted my entire music library via MusicBee (empty Recycle Bin)

[MotleyG]

It's normal not to read the warning when deleting tracks,

I disagree. The warnings pop up for a reason. If you choose to ignore them, then you risk the consequences.

This topic has scared me because I was not aware it was possible to completely delete and lose folders because they are too big for the recycle bin. This should not be possible so easily!!

This is an OS issue, not MusicBee. Take MB out of the equation. How many warnings does the OS pop up when deleting large numbers of files or folders? Backups are your best friend.

I'm all for:
An option to disable the delete key for folders (right click only)
An option to give a double warning for folders
A red warning screen for folders

Again all just extra steps to end up in the same place. If you click through one window odds are you click through more. The reality is that even if there were three or four pop up boxes that stated -
"Are you sure you want to do this?"
"Are you really sure you want to do this?"
"Are you really, reaalllllyyyy sure you want to do this?"
- users that ignore the warnings will still click through them all.

The fix is simple. Don't tell MusicBee to delete files if you don't want them deleted. If you don't want to lose valuable information don't mindlessly click through warning windows. And ALWAYS have regular backups of your precious music library just in case you do. There are many other reasons where files can get lost that MusicBee also can't control (drive failure?} that a backup will save your sanity. Have more than one, and update them often.

[sveakul]

I'm pretty sure that Windows shows a popup warning when files are too large for the recycle bin.
If that message is currently somehow suppressed by MusicBee, perhaps that could be changed.

It's still shown.

Now I am confused.
You are saying that it will show (as I would expect), but Abendstern says there is no warning at all.

@Abendstern:
Can you confirm that Windows does not warn you when files are too large for the recycle bin when you delete them using MusicBee?

I know you are addressing Abendstern, but though he beats around the bush a lot I am unable to find anything where he states Windows does not warn you if the too-large-files are deleted using MusicBee.  I have personally done this recently by accident (delete a folder), but now that I think about it damn if I can remember it was it was from inside MusicBee or Explorer.  I can say that when I did so, the OS gave the message pop-up that the folder was too large to be deleted to the recycle bin, and offered to just cancel.  I would expect an OS-level warning to appear regardless from what application is attempting the action.

[sveakul]

Again all just extra steps to end up in the same place. If you click through one window odds are you click through more. The reality is that even if there were three or four pop up boxes that stated -
"Are you sure you want to do this?"
"Are you really sure you want to do this?"
"Are you really, reaalllllyyyy sure you want to do this?"
- users that ignore the warnings will still click through them all.

The fix is simple. Don't tell MusicBee to delete files if you don't want them deleted. If you don't want to lose valuable information don't mindlessly click through warning windows. And ALWAYS have regular backups of your precious music library just in case you do. There are many other reasons where files can get lost that MusicBee also can't control (drive failure?} that a backup will save your sanity. Have more than one, and update them often.

Thanks for some precious sanity, +1.

[hiccup]

I'm pretty sure that Windows shows a popup warning when files are too large for the recycle bin.
If that message is currently somehow suppressed by MusicBee, perhaps that could be changed.

It's still shown.

Now I am confused.
You are saying that it will show (as I would expect), but Abendstern says there is no warning at all.

@Abendstern:
Can you confirm that Windows does not warn you when files are too large for the recycle bin when you delete them using MusicBee?

...I know you are addressing Abendstern...
...I am unable to find anything where he states Windows does not warn you if the too-large-files are deleted using MusicBee...

He certainly implied that he lost 200GB of music because he wasn't warned that it would get deleted permanently.
It would be good if he clears that up.

[Zak]

I would expect an OS-level warning to appear regardless from what application is attempting the action.

That depends on how the application has been programmed.
And only applies to user-initiated deletions - there are lots of reasons an application might delete a file without prompting you.

This command will mimic what happens when you delete a file in File Explorer.

Code

My.Computer.FileSystem.DeleteFile("S:\Test.mkv", FileIO.UIOption.AllDialogs, FileIO.RecycleOption.SendToRecycleBin)

i.e. If you have Windows set to prompt you when deleting a file, it will do that.
If the file is too large to be moved to the recycle bin, it will warn you:



This simpler command will delete the file regardless of what other Windows preferences settings you may have set.

Code

IO.File.Delete("S:\Test.mkv")

No prompting, no recycling. Ever.

Given that MusicBee provides the option of moving deleted files to the Recycle Bin, I will assume it's using the former, friendlier method.
In which case I think my earlier "tip" for expanding the size of the recycle bin would prevent the permanent deletion of large batches of music in one (accidental) operation.

[Abendstern]

My own feeling is why should MusicBee be involved in "user-proofing" matters that deal universally with how the Windows operating system operates, not how MusicBee operates.

You are right. My topic is about how MusicBee operates. I don't care how Windows handles its own matters.
Btw I do not complain. Only suggest. Like I said, it's my fault, but I feel there's a thing here that could be improved.

@Abendstern:
Can you confirm that Windows does not warn you when files are too large for the recycle bin when you delete them using MusicBee?

Yes, I can confirm that Windows didn't warn me when I was deleting 200gb. But that's normal, isn't it? MusicBee deletes files bypassing Windows warnings, as it probably should. The only warnings that MusicBee showed me can be seen in the images from imgur.

What I'm trying to prove here is that when you listen to a lot of music and makes 50-100 delete operations per day to filter some discography you are listening from what you don't like, it's not that hard to delete your entire music collection by a selection mistake and ignoring MB warning. I wish MB could see the difference when it demolishes 1 track or 200 gigabytes. If MusicBee would use Windows warning about deleting files that are too large, that would help. I didn't suggest that, but it sounds like a solution.

I know you are addressing Abendstern, but though he beats around the bush a lot I am unable to find anything where he states Windows does not warn you if the too-large-files are deleted using MusicBee.  I have personally done this recently by accident (delete a folder), but now that I think about it damn if I can remember it was it was from inside MusicBee or Explorer.  I can say that when I did so, the OS gave the message pop-up that the folder was too large to be deleted to the recycle bin, and offered to just cancel.  I would expect an OS-level warning to appear regardless from what application is attempting the action.

He certainly implied that he lost 200GB of music because he wasn't warned that it would get deleted permanently.
It would be good if he clears that up.

I was warned by MusicBee, as on imgur.
CONFIRMATION: Remove folder 'D/Music/ and all its content?
I didn't get warnings from Windows, but I wasn't talking about Windows, just responding. If MusicBee had gotten the Windows to give me that warning, it would have helped.

P.S. And yes, I will now increase the size of the recycle bin can hold. I didn't know about that function myself.

[phred]

Doing some very quick, unscientific testing, Windows will pop up a warning if you're deleting one file that's over the limit. My test was a 1.9gb ZIP file and I was warned. But when I unzipped it, I had a couple of hundred files that totaled 2.7gb and deleted the folder that contained them, there was no warning.

If the OP's 200gb was a folder containing files that totaled 200gb, Windows would not have warned. If it was one file Windows would've popped up the warning.

Apparently MB hides, suppresses, or otherwise doesn't show, the warning from Windows.

[hiccup]

I was warned by MusicBee.

I see.

-1 to all suggestions/requests for changes and/or adding more option settings for this.

[Abendstern]

If the OP's 200gb was a folder containing files that totaled 200gb, Windows would not have warned.

No, it warns you when you delete even a folder where the containing files inside weigh total 200gb if you delete from Windows using Explorer. MusicBee will delete that folder without triggering Windows warnings. If that's what we're still talking about. I just checked, I'm running Windows 11.

Apparently MB hides, suppresses, or otherwise doesn't show, the warning from Windows.

Yes, that's it.

[phred]

No, it warns you when you delete even a folder where the containing files inside weigh total 200gb if you delete from Windows using Explorer.

That's not what I experienced. But I'm not going to bother creating another large file/folder and test again.

[Fazer]

It's normal not to read the warning when deleting tracks,

I disagree. The warnings pop up for a reason. If you choose to ignore them, then you risk the consequences.

If you delete 8 tracks in a row, you might read it the first time but are you going to read it the next 7 times? Maybe you would, but many others would not because the intent is to do the same thing multiple times, it's just muscle memory. This doesn't make the confirmation useless, it avoids a delete when accidentally hitting the delete key by requiring a two button combination.
The only mistake that can happen is a misclick on a folder which is a small chance, but users are not aware that large sizes can be wiped clean from the drive so maybe they aren't clicking carefully either. I don't get the issue of an optional safe delete, whether that should be enabled or disabled by default I'll leave up to others to decide.

I'm all for:
An option to disable the delete key for folders (right click only)
An option to give a double warning for folders
A red warning screen for folders

Again all just extra steps to end up in the same place. If you click through one window odds are you click through more. The reality is that even if there were three or four pop up boxes that stated -
"Are you sure you want to do this?"
"Are you really sure you want to do this?"
"Are you really, reaalllllyyyy sure you want to do this?"
- users that ignore the warnings will still click through them all.

The fix is simple. Don't tell MusicBee to delete files if you don't want them deleted. If you don't want to lose valuable information don't mindlessly click through warning windows. And ALWAYS have regular backups of your precious music library just in case you do. There are many other reasons where files can get lost that MusicBee also can't control (drive failure?} that a backup will save your sanity. Have more than one, and update them often.

Someone who deletes a lot would use hotkeys. An option to disable hotkeys for folder deletion would at least avoid this unintentional muscle memory on a misclick. Even if hotkeys are not disabled for folder delete then a double warning would break the pattern, and if it is disabled then a double warning might be wanted by some users who always delete with right click.

I agree with everything you say about backups, but that doesn't mean that some user would not rather enable safe delete features for folders as well, because they could still lose days or weeks of work, not everyone is running a NAS. Out of all the little features that get suggested, data loss preventive measures seem a bit more important.

I have now also maxed the maximum size of the recycle bin, thanks.

[sveakul]

If the OP's 200gb was a folder containing files that totaled 200gb, Windows would not have warned.

No, it warns you when you delete even a folder where the containing files inside weigh total 200gb if you delete from Windows using Explorer. MusicBee will delete that folder without triggering Windows warnings. If that's what we're still talking about. I just checked, I'm running Windows 11.

Apparently MB hides, suppresses, or otherwise doesn't show, the warning from Windows.

Yes, that's it.

Respectfully Sir,  I for one remain completely in the dark about what it is you are trying to say.  The first paragraph says OS Windows provides a warning when the deletion is attempted from OS Explorer.  Then you go on to say, MUSICBEE will delete that folder "without triggering Windows warnings."  Does that mean without triggering the OS Windows warning pop-up, period, or, it won't show the OS pop-up but instead shows a version of its own?

The question/statement from phred you then agree with the throws the thing back to interpretation.

Here is a "yes" or "no" question that cuts the Gordian Knot in one slice:

When a folder larger than the OS imposed limit is attempted to be deleted within MusicBee, does MusicBee show a warning message OF ANY KIND (it's own write, or the standard OS warning) first?  That's the only real point of any of this being different from any other application.  If the answer is "yes," the whole discussion is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.  If the answer is "no", I would agree that a good addition to the "spare time list" would be "make MusicBee conform to established OS behavior when used to delete large files."

[Abendstern]

The first paragraph says OS Windows provides a warning when the deletion is attempted from OS Explorer. Then you go on to say, MUSICBEE will delete that folder "without triggering Windows warnings."  Does that mean without triggering the OS Windows warning pop-up, period, or, it won't show the OS pop-up but instead shows a version of its own?

Yes, it means without triggering the OS Windows warning pop-up. It won't show the OS pop-up, but instead shows a version of its own: https://i.imgur.com/rQ1l6oe.png
Like I said, I don't expect MusicBee to use the Windows popup, but it would help. If that were so, if I agreed to the warning from MusicBee, I would also see a warning from Windows because the files are too big, and I wouldn't delete everything.

When a folder larger than the OS imposed limit is attempted to be deleted within MusicBee, does MusicBee show a warning message OF ANY KIND (it's own write, or the standard OS warning) first?

Yes, it shows MusicBee's writed own one warning, when you are deleting a folder: https://i.imgur.com/rQ1l6oe.png
It's a common warning, almost no different than a usual one warning when deleting a single track, even though you're deleting a 200 gigabytes folder.
The usual warning when you delete track, not folder, is here: https://i.imgur.com/rwUTb83.png (it says permanently, but it's not true, because your small files will end up in Recycle Bin).

If the answer is "yes," the whole discussion is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Disagree.

If you delete 8 tracks in a row, you might read it the first time but are you going to read it the next 7 times? Maybe you would, but many others would not because the intent is to do the same thing multiple times, it's just muscle memory. This doesn't make the confirmation useless, it avoids a delete when accidentally hitting the delete key by requiring a two button combination.
The only mistake that can happen is a misclick on a folder which is a small chance, but users are not aware that large sizes can be wiped clean from the drive so maybe they aren't clicking carefully either. I don't get the issue of an optional safe delete, whether that should be enabled or disabled by default I'll leave up to others to decide.

I'm afraid it's too complex a concept for them to grasp. I guess it's naive for me to assume that I'll be understood by people who don't delete a lot of files in MusicBee because they have a different style of listening to music and working with files.

Hell, I never realized that MusicBee could delete a 200 gigabyte folder like it was just another mp3 file without thinking it was too much weight, even though even Windows thinks so. Yes, I do think that if a file folder is too big, MusicBee should give me 2 warnings instead of one. As I've said before and shown in the images in the OP post, it's not hard to make a mistake. It's just one possible solution for user safety, and what the developers will do with it is up to them.

P.S. I am communicating with you through an translator. This may be the reason for the misunderstanding, although I doubt it's just me that's the only problem.

[sveakul]

No, you are not the only problem, there's me

Thanks for posting the image of the MusicBee custom popup that occurs when a deletion of over 200GB (e.g.) is attempted.  I had said it would be a non-issue if this happened;  I was wrong, because the message shown by MB uses the language "remove" the folder, which everywhere else in MB means delete to Recycle Bin.  There is no hint given of the actual OS-based limit or the consequence of proceeding.

MusicBee needs to either go "hands-off" the OS too-big-for-Bin message and allow that one to be shown instead, or continue to use its own but modify it "post haste" to read something like:

"MusicBee cannot delete these files to the Recycle Bin due to an OS restriction;  you can choose to either (checkbox) permanently delete them from the computer, or (checkbox) cancel the procedure and leave the files as-is."

I'm sorry for missing the image that you probably posted before.  The classic "was worth a thousand words" scenario.  Thanks for not giving up in getting us to see this.

[hiccup]

Thanks for not giving up in getting us to see this.

It was already established and pointed out 22 posts ago. (reply #7)