VUMeter Plugin

[sveakul]

Yes, looks great on my Lyrics panel, thanks.

Good to hear/see.

What's your opinion on dB accuracy for these kind of VU meters?
Would you prefer total accuracy (such as with AcuVU) or do you think bending the truth a little bit is OK?
(it makes it easier to chose values that look good, and having them aligned and filling the scale in a visually pleasant way)

I prefer total accuracy, unless it results in a near "dead" meter or would take an inordinate amount of time to code as opposed to being "pretty much accurate."

[sveakul]

@BoringName
About the 'linear' option:
Is this (still) a useful additional setting to have?

NO!!! Please do not remove it. Or not until I've done some more testing. A few days ago I found the needles showing a very low level. I enabled linear and they popped right up. Playing around with it a little bit right now, I found one skin that when linear is disabled the right meter doesn't move at all (DejaVU Compact Phred on the Outlook.

I'll conduct a full test of all of them in a couple of hours and report back.

Removing options = bad.  I agree with phred, please do not remove it.  I noticed the dead right meter issue on the skin he mentioned.  In general with the few skins I have ( the hiccup group) enabling it/disabling all produce a noticeable effect, usually disabled shows a more "agitated" movement.  Disabling it in the hartmann & braun meter results in ZERO movement.  Bottom line = please keep this option, what's available out there (AIMP etc) just is not standardized enough to support the removal of something that can positively affect performance levels.

[hiccup]

I prefer total accuracy, unless it results in a near "dead" meter or would take an inordinate amount of time to code as opposed to being "pretty much accurate."

I understand. But to be clear about what I am talking about regarding my own VU meter skins here, it's strictly about the cosmetics.

The functionality of the needle action coming to live as soon as possible (around -60 dB) and the needle pointing exactly at 0 dB when at maximum is not a point of discussion.
I'm talking about the visual aspect and the numbers being printed on the scale.
For example, my AcuVU skin is completely accurate in both aspects.
But my DajaVU Compact skin has taken some liberties.
The dB digits on top in this example would be factual correct, but the arrangement of the values under it (as they are now) look nicer. (in my opinion)



I am guessing not many users will care about this at all, and I don't think I care too much about it myself, but it is something that has been on my mind making these kind of decisions.
(it's much easier to create a VU meter by simply grabbing a photo of an existing VU meter from the internet and getting the needles to work then creating one from scratch)

Also, many very nice VU meter skins are actually ampere meters, voltage meters,  or even altitude, oil pressure or speedometers.
So perhaps I worry too much? ;-)

[sveakul]

That's really weird.
Both BoringName and I have been doing some serious testing/developing this stuff for the last couple of weeks, and it looks like neither of us has experienced this kind of bugs.
I'm sure you are not on drugs or imagining things, so I am wondering if there might be something specific going on on your system that might be interfering, and causing these issues?

You mean, you DON'T see the dead right meter on DejaVu Compact P.O.T.L. when linear is off??  Or the dead LEFT meter on the regular DejaVu Compact?  Or the zero movement on the  hartmann & braun?  It's real, believe me.  BTW, my output is Wasapi-Exclusive as always using Windows 11 x64.

[hiccup]

You mean, you DON'T see the dead right meter on DejaVu Compact P.O.T.L. when linear is off??

I do, and that's exactly what I reported to BoringName earlier in this thread.
And it was one of the two reasons for me suggesting to get rid of the option to be able to disable linear and activate a logarithmic curve.
The other being me not having seen one existing VU meter that had better needle action with linear off compared to linear on.

Apart from weird bugs about stuck left or right needles being reported.
Those (should) have nothing to do with this option setting.

[hiccup]

Bottom line = please keep this option, what's available out there (AIMP etc) just is not standardized enough to support the removal of something that can positively affect performance levels.

With all due respect, I think both you and Phred are having a wrong view on this.
You both seem to want to keep the option only because there seems to be some bug in the plugin concerning needles in some cases moving or not.

The option is (should be) about the curve of the needle, i.e how fast it moves across the scale in certain areas and where it is positioned at certain volume levels.
Please, let's keep that functionality option separated from any current bugs that have nothing to do with a linear vs. a logarithmic curve.

[phred]

With all due respect, I think both you and Phred are having a wrong view on this.
You both seem to want to keep the option only because there seems to be some bug in the plugin concerning needles in some cases moving or not.

The option is (should be) about the curve of the needle, i.e how fast it moves across the scale in certain areas and where it is positioned at certain volume levels.
Please, let's keep that functionality option separated from any current bugs that have nothing to do with a linear vs. a logarithmic curve.

Speaking strictly for myself, and ignoring for the moment the skins that are exhibiting no needle movement, with linear disabled the needles do move, but very little. Right now barely moving from -30db. Enabling linear using the same track and skin the needles are moving between -30 and  -15 with an occasional peak towards -7.

So perhaps it's a bug that can be fixed and if so, then linear can disappear. But there's no point in having VU meters if there's hardly any movement of the needles.

[phred]

I'll conduct a full test of all of them in a couple of hours and report back.

I can't say the test was successful. Nor can I say it was a failure.

Booting to Windows Safe Mode and launching MB resulted it a crash. A quick flash of what I think was "MusicBee can't start now." Or something similar. It flashes so quickly before it's replaced by this:

Code

MusicBee v3.6.9023.27917P  (Win10.0), 14 Sep 2024 13:46:

System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at MusicBeePlugin.VUMeter.DrawBackGround()
   at MusicBeePlugin.VUMeter.OpenGLControl_OpenGLDraw(Object sender, OpenGLRoutedEventArgs args)
   --- End of inner exception stack trace ---
   at System.RuntimeMethodHandle.InvokeMethod(Object target, Object[] arguments, Signature sig, Boolean constructor)
   at System.Reflection.RuntimeMethodInfo.UnsafeInvokeInternal(Object obj, Object[] parameters, Object[] arguments)
   at System.Delegate.DynamicInvokeImpl(Object[] args)
   at System.Windows.RoutedEventArgs.InvokeEventHandler(Delegate genericHandler, Object genericTarget)
   at System.Windows.RoutedEventArgs.InvokeHandler(Delegate handler, Object target)
   at System.Windows.RoutedEventHandlerInfo.InvokeHandler(Object target, RoutedEventArgs routedEventArgs)
   at System.Windows.EventRoute.InvokeHandlersImpl(Object source, RoutedEventArgs args, Boolean reRaised)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.RaiseEventImpl(DependencyObject sender, RoutedEventArgs args)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.RaiseEvent(RoutedEventArgs e)
   at SharpGL.WPF.OpenGLControl.DoRender()
   at MusicBeePlugin.VUMeter.RenderEventProcessor(Object myObject, EventArgs myEventArgs)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Timer.OnTick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Timer.TimerNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

So I "installed" a fresh portable version of MB and it started as expected. I close it, installed the VUMeter plugin and when I launched MB it did the same thing. End of test.

I will wait for BoringName to take a look at things before testing again.

EDIT: Typo

[hiccup]

But there's no point in having VU meters if there's hardly any movement of the needles.

Yeah, it may be better to just forget about this VU meter stuff and delete everything that has been created, accomplished and shared.

(sarcastic mode on)

[phred]

Yeah, it may be better to just forget about this VU meter stuff and delete everything that has been created, accomplished and shared.
(sarcastic mode on)

[sarcastic reply mode]
This from the person who started asking about VU meters seven years ago?!?!?!? But we're so close now.
https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=23394.0
 [/sarcastic reply mode]

[sveakul]

I can't say the test was successful. Nor can I say it was a failure.

Booting to Windows Safe Mode and launching MB resulted it a crash. A quick flash of what I think was "MusicBee can't start now." Or something similar. It flashes so quickly before it's replaced by this...

So I "installed" a fresh portable version of MB and it started as expected. I close it, installed the VUMeter plugin and when I launched MB it did the same thing. End of test.

I will wait for BorningName to take a look at things before testing again.

phred:

Why did you boot into Safe Mode in the first place?  Is it because MB crashed when you first installed VUMeter 1.3, or when you were trying a particular skin?

I don't see how 1.3 on its own could cause a crash;  I'm running it with two other visualizers (CEN Spectrum and Classic Spectrum) active;  what output are you using in MB?  Did version 1.2 of the plugin work fine?  Are you per chance using the two D2D dll's that were optional with CEN?

[sveakul]

Bottom line = please keep this option, what's available out there (AIMP etc) just is not standardized enough to support the removal of something that can positively affect performance levels.

With all due respect, I think both you and Phred are having a wrong view on this.
You both seem to want to keep the option only because there seems to be some bug in the plugin concerning needles in some cases moving or not.

The option is (should be) about the curve of the needle, i.e how fast it moves across the scale in certain areas and where it is positioned at certain volume levels.
Please, let's keep that functionality option separated from any current bugs that have nothing to do with a linear vs. a logarithmic curve.

My first inclination to keep it is based on what BoringName mentioned a while back about the Linear option seeming to produce more accurate results IN SOME CASES.  My second is that some meters have a more linear, less logarithmic scale so my guess is that "linear" is best able to represent on those scales?  In any case, keeping the option "available" when it's already present hurts nothing AFAIK.  Visually it produces a lower dB range of movement in the majority of cases, but whether that means "more" or "less" accurate I have no idea.

About not seeing e.g. the dead right meter in Deja Vu Compact POTL on your setup, I believe you, and if I thought an animated *.gif from mine would do any good I'd send one.  All I can say is in my MB environment with Linear enabled, both channels react "normally" (whatever that is at this point!) on that skin--and the instant I uncheck "linear", the bottom "R" meter slams immediately to the left end, dead, while the top "L" meter continues albeit at a slightly lower dB level.  And from what phred has reported, he sees the same thing.  I'll leave the rest to the developer.

[hiccup]

My second is that some meters have a more linear, less logarithmic scale so my guess is that "linear" is best able to represent on those scales?  In any case, keeping the option "available" when it's already present hurts nothing AFAIK.  Visually it produces a lower dB range of movement in the majority of cases, but whether that means "more" or "less" accurate I have no idea.

For now that's all based on guesses and assumptions and have not been tested and verified.
Proof is in the pudding.
Until someone is able to present a couple of specific existing VU meter skins that work much better when using some 'non-linear' setting I am still of the opinion that it's a useless feature that shouldn't be there to possibly confuse users.

edit
Perhaps there is some more frequently present flaw/error in some existing/older AIMP VU meter skins?
BoringName has alluded to something like that before.
So perhaps there could be use for some 'flaw correction' setting?
But let's try to work with facts and not with assumptions. What would be the flaw or the actual issue why (if?) some meters don't have good 'needle action'.
By now I'm highly doubtful that would be about some linear vs. logarithmic setting.

[phred]

Why did you boot into Safe Mode in the first place?  Is it because MB crashed when you first installed VUMeter 1.3, or when you were trying a particular skin?

Because even though I was certain I had no third party audio apps running, I wanted to test the odd needle behavior on as plain vanilla machine as I could. Which was safe mode. If I had seen your post that you were also experiencing the needle not moving issue before I did Safe Mode, I wouldn't have bothered with it.

Yes, VUMeter 1.2 ran fine, but I can't recall if I spotted the linear vs non-linear issue with it.

I've never installed CEN Spectrum or Classic Spectrum so I can't have those DLLs.

[phred]

All I can say is in my MB environment with Linear enabled, both channels react "normally" (whatever that is at this point!) on that skin--and the instant I uncheck "linear", the bottom "R" meter slams immediately to the left end, dead, while the top "L" meter continues albeit at a slightly lower dB level.  And from what phred has reported, he sees the same thing.

I do, I do.
Along with DejaVU Compact MB2 and Elemental. And the reverse with DejaVU Compact. The left doesn't move when linear is disabled. Plus no movement from either side with Hartmann & Braun and M4762.