Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools

[phred]

I really dislike the need to hover over an icon to find out what it does.

I don't disagree on the Whack-A-Mole interplay of the tool tips. I was just pointing out that they exist in case you weren't hovering long enough.

The mockup really seems to address all the issues.

[Messiaen]

The mockup really seems to address all the issues.

If we were discussing Hiccup's first Mock-up (from last week), then I'd agree wholeheartedly.  But I have to offer a dissenting vote for this last one - I don't see the need to move anything around so drastically, especially after all the effort that already went into the "Import/Save/Edit" layout.

As for filters... maybe there should be more voices from those (not us) who actually use them?  This is a forest-for-the-trees thing to me, yes more options are always a good thing, but the search-bar (which incidentally looks much nicer in its current shortened form) by itself solves many evils.

For what it's worth my use case is simple: I tend to delete the presets I know I'll never use, so I only have about 40 in total, 11 of which can be called full (from scratch) user-presets. Since the font issue has plagued me for some time, I started prefixing all my custom user presets with the '_' underscore character so they automatically went to the top of the list by default and I don't ever need to search for them.

Obviously, other people's needs will be different, but considering Hiccup (please take this with humour) by his own admission didn't even know the search-bar existed until a month ago - how much filtering can one man need?  

As for fonts - yes, regularising them would be nice - if it were up to me they would all be roughly the same, with just button text being slightly enlarged for clarity, and without doubt the "description" text needs to be larger and preferably not that blue colour... for those who use the "skin" option, it's virtually unreadable on a dark background.

And as ridiculous as it may sound, I will again plead on my knees that the Preset-List text go no smaller, or, indeed, be changed in any way.  It's only in the few days that it's become acceptable (for me).

My two-cents, as they say.

[hiccup]

If we were discussing Hiccup's first Mock-up (from last week), then I'd agree wholeheartedly.  But I have to offer a dissenting vote for this last one - I don't see the need to move anything around so drastically, especially after all the effort that already went into the "Import/Save/Edit" layout.

Adding the seven text lines with checkboxes takes up more vertical space. Space that isn't really available when leaving the rest of the panel the same.
So I thought reshuffling the larger buttons—what makes this possible—would be a good solution.

And as an added benefit, the groups of buttons are now very nicely separated between the ones that handle presets (at the top), and the ones that preview and save the results (at the bottom).
I myself only see benefits here.
Except for the work this will probably take.

but considering Hiccup (please take this with humour) by his own admission didn't even know the search-bar existed until a month ago

That's simply the truth.
And it is one of the reasons I started raising suggestions to improve on the whole interface.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that isn't using all features of the plugin (or even use the plugin at all) because things look confusing and complicated at first (and second) sight.

As for filters... maybe there should be more voices from those (not us) who actually use them?  This is a forest-for-the-trees thing to me, yes more options are always a good thing, but the search-bar (which incidentally looks much nicer in its current shortened form) by itself solves many evils.

If we would take my previous mock up (that you and me both like), and tweak it a little bit so to add some of the new current filters, I am guessing 4 filters would be the maximum that can be displayed, considering the available space.

That could look something like this:


But that means that 3 of the 7 existing filters would need to go. I myself don't see 3 that could easily be removed.

edit:
Maybe I do.
I'm not sure I understand why there are both customised presets and user presets.
(but that's probably well-explained somewhere in this thread)
So for me, 'customised presets' as a filter could go, and the remaining filter could show them both?
Also, I don't think I will be using 'constrained by playlist' and ''assigned virtual tag function ids' filters.
And also, such presets will probably already get shown when filtering on 'user presets'?

So together that would indeed make three filters that could be removed. (in my personal opinion)
 

[Messiaen]

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the why of your (new) design, I just don't like it.  I also accept that others may appreciate and love having a serious multitude of filtering options, so they aren't going to go away.  I just think (for the tenth time) that 8 bleeding checkboxes are overwhelming overkill for one option - imagine what MusicBee itself would look like if Steven one day lost his head and decided all filtering will be done similarly!  For a couple of filters, yes, it's great and better than the "old" system, but advanced options are usually best somewhat hidden away (yet accessible when needed), not presented all the time and taking up so much real-estate.

I'll also admit that part of my goals are selfish, where DPI comes into play, one of the side-effects is that windows (frames and all) automatically expand, and since ASR/ALR windows are already rather large and seriously cluttered with controls, there's no hope at all that that flexibility could ever be properly applied in the future without breaking the layout... so 8 checkboxes (my new mantra, apparently   ) is just wacky.  Wacky, I say!  

So yeah - I'll go sit quietly in the corner now and hope nobody shrinks anything.  I'm just happy I won't accidentally lose any complex reg-ex edits now that safeguards are in place.  I'm a man of simple needs.

[Messiaen]

So together that would indeed make three filters that could be removed. (in my personal opinion)

Options are like nuclear weapons (or a really serious chocolate cake): once invented, they can't be un-invented.  Boroda doesn't strike me as a man who likes to remove things.  And I don't think they should be removed - I think (like a really serious chocolate cake) they should be harnessed, and embraced.  Just slightly hidden away until desired.

[hiccup]

And I don't think they should be removed

Ok, then I misunderstood you.
Probably because you found my first mockup to be magnificent, and that one had only two filters.

imagine what MusicBee itself would look like if Steven one day lost his head and decided all filtering will be done similarly!

No imagination needed:


;-)

[Messiaen]

...and that one had only two filters.

That's because at the time there were only two filters!  And then Boroda lost his head and decided filters were like mice - if you see one, you know there's 10 more in the walls just waiting to pounce, and now here we are!  

Hagiography and metaphors aside, your first (now mythical) mockup was a triumph of simplicity and design, whilst avoiding the pitfalls of icons and tooltips.  That's one of the things that led me to the dropdown idea (of condensing stuff, not removing stuff - what Buckminster Fuller called Ephemeralisation, the "art of doing more with less").  But I didn't know everybody was so attached to the (admittedly nice) flexibility of combined filters.  Unfortunately I don't have a better solution.  

[hiccup]

Unfortunately I don't have a better solution. 

Just in case you missed it, I edited my previous post (reply #2913) and included a mockup that uses 4 presets, and explaining why (I think) that would be enough.
I still see no real issues with my previous 'rigorous' mockup, but perhaps the 4-preset one could be a compromise.

[Bee-liever]

i've enlarged the font of the preset list

I prefer the original font size.
My OCD kicks in when the bottom of the 'g' in  <Tag 1> gets cut off.

All other changes look OK to me.

[boroda]

here is what i've currently done. there are both (btw, clickable and ctrl-clickable) icons to quickly show which filters are active, along with dropdown (also, items are ctrl-clickable) with text instead of icons. font sized are changed for both preset list (now preset list font is a bit smaller than earlier) and preset description (now font is a bit larger).

i think i'll stop on ASR UI/UX updating, if nobody strongly objects to the current implementation.

also, i've fixed a number of minor, but very numerous bugs.

still to do: lite redesign of ALR window (to make it look/behave more similar to ASR).



-------------------

https://www.mediafire.com/file/h2t08o9562efboi/mb_TagTools_latest.zip/file

[boroda]

I prefer the original font size.
My OCD kicks in when the bottom of the 'g' in  <Tag 1> gets cut off.

yeah, that was bothering me too. hopefully i've found a fix to this (at 1st glance unresolvable using standard .net controls) issue. it's in the last plugin update.

[Messiaen]

The <Ctrl>-clicking combining filters doesn't seem to work.  One filter will work fine, but if I <Ctrl+Click> on another the appropriate icon lights up, but the listview is blank (and no text in combobox).  Clicking on any single filter again restores it as expected.

And just as an odd experiment, <Ctrl+Click> on all filters consecutively again results in a blank listview, but oddly clicking on the "User" filter will randomly enable/disable some other icons, as if it considers such filters are incompatible with each other.  Like I said, this part was just playing around.

[boroda]

I'm not sure I understand why there are both customised presets and user presets.
(but that's probably well-explained somewhere in this thread)

user preset (no matter how it has been created - from scratch or by copying predefined preset) doesn't relate anymore to any other (e.g. predefined) preset. user has full control over user preset, can completely change (edit) it, and user preset will never be affected by any deletion/(re)installation/updating of predefined presets.

customized preset is always a tiny modification (only allowed by me modification) of predefined preset (and only predefined preset) made by user. it's not a new copy of preset, and it's still predefined preset. user can reset all customizations of predefined preset by clicking "install all" button, and clicking "yes" in the following confirmation dialog.

so, user presets and customized presets are completely different.

Also, I don't think I will be using 'constrained by playlist' and ''assigned virtual tag function ids' filters.
And also, such presets will probably already get shown when filtering on 'user presets'?

no, only changing allowed <tag #> tags and <custom text #> values are considered to be customization.

such preset settings as "constrained by playlist", "assigned virtual tag function ids", etc. are not customizations and are always preserved on any predefined presets update.

p.s. probably i must include in "customization" concept all changed settings except for hotkey and function id assignments.

[boroda]

The <Ctrl>-clicking combining filters doesn't seem to work.  One filter will work fine, but if I <Ctrl+Click> on another the appropriate icon lights up, but the listview is blank (and no text in combobox).  Clicking on any single filter again restores it as expected.

works fine here. filters are combined using AND operation, not OR. blank combobox field means "mixed filters". i don't know how to display some text if no exact item (actually, if no item) is selected in combobox. 

And just as an odd experiment, <Ctrl+Click> on all filters consecutively again results in a blank listview, but oddly clicking on the "User" filter will randomly enable/disable some other icons, as if it considers such filters are incompatible with each other.  Like I said, this part was just playing around.

"predefined"/"customized" and "user" filters ARE mutually exclusive (because they are combined using AND operation, preset can't be predefined AND user simultaneously).

i'll change tool tips to explain that all checked filter are applied simultaneously (using AND operation).

i only don't know how to phrase this in English in a simple and clear way.

[Messiaen]

filters are combined using AND operation, not OR.

Ah, ok, that explains it - my mistake, I didn't expect that.  I imagine you'll get a lot of confused users by this method, no matter how simplistically you try explaining the difference between an applied logical conjunction vs disjunction.  Sometimes rigorous logic is not a good thing when dealing with... people.  

It's also the opposite of how the previous multi-checkbox filtering worked.  Most people would "expect" a cummulative system (i.e., all filters selected == no filters selected, regardless of logical "conflicts").