Author Topic: YEAR Tag is "duplicated" on Save... also a change of function suggestion.  (Read 6956 times)

leeuniverse

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1. When MusicBee creates "multi-tags" it's also duplicating the YEAR tag, even though there is ONLY a single value in the tag, so it shouldn't be creating an "additional" year tag.  It should see the YEAR Tag already exists and doesn't create another one.

I have the ID3v1 box also checked in Settings, so I have both 2.4 and v1 tags in my files.  It might be possible that MusicBee is creating the additional year tag from the v1 info, though I haven't tested it, by unchecking the v1 box to see what happens.



2. Also, there might need to be a change in functionality for the display of multi-Artists...

Players sometimes don't like Multi-Artists in the ARTIST Tag, especially using the NULL separator, aka multi-tags of the same tag, this is especially a problem if the ID3v2.3 standard is used, and players require it.  (this and many other issues is why multi-tags should NOT be used for those using ID3 2.3, because players that require 2.3 don't support it, and this can cause the players to have problems not knowing what to do or choose with all these "extra" duplicate named tags.)

So, MusicBee next to each song shows the artists for that song, but it ONLY lists them there if you have more than one artist in the ARTIST Tag.  If you have multi-artists listed in the ARTIST(S) Tag, they don't show there.  So, for example, if you have just the main Artist in the Artist Tag, and then you list the extras in the ARTISTS tag, MusicBee doesn't show ANY artists next to the song, unlike when you have multi-artists in the ARTIST tag, like the below pic shows.

So, a change in function might be for MusicBee to also check the ARTISTS Tag to see if there are other artists, so they can be listed.  If they are "duplicates" of what's already in the ARTIST tag, then nothing needs to happen.  But, if they are different names then it might be good they are listed next to the song like the below pic, which as I mentioned is showing the Artists I have in the ARTIST Tag.


Steven

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for the year issue can you pm me a link to a zip of one of the problem files

The Incredible Boom Boom

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ID3 year tags use TYER (YEAR) for the release year and TDAT (DATE) for the month and day.
In MusicBee, these tags appear in the Tag Inspector as...

YEAR
YEAR

Are you sure they're leaving Picard and/or MP3TAG as a single value tag?

leeuniverse

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ID3 year tags use TYER (YEAR) for the release year and TDAT (DATE) for the month and day.
In MusicBee, these tags appear in the Tag Inspector as...

YEAR
YEAR

Are you sure they're leaving Picard and/or MP3TAG as a single value tag?

I know in Picard DATE shows the Year, then also the Month and Day often if that's been entered.
In Mp3tag that Tag shows as YEAR.  Mp3tag doesn't show "two" dates for me, it only shows YEAR.
So, in both Picard and Mp3tag those values are showing only as "single" values, as DATE in Picard and YEAR in Mp3tag.

Now, Picard does have "Original Release Date" and "Original Year" Tags.
In Mp3tag those show as ORIGINALYEAR and ORIGYEAR.

It's possible there could be "hidden" tags that Mp3tag nor Picard will display, I've discovered that occurs with certain types of coding that creates tags.
For example, using TagScanner I discovered some tags that had "website links" in them, and neither Picard nor Mp3tag showed this info.  (Oh wait, Mp3tag DID show it under the Extended Tag Viewer now that I'm remembering, if I'm remembering right, but Picard didn't show it, and I asked them about this and it was a known limitation of Picard.  They haven't included ALL potential coding structures into Picard which might exist in files as Tags.)

So, bottom line is unless there's a "hidden" tag that's flushed out by MusicBee adding a second YEAR tag, the ONLY "date" related Tags that's in my files when using Picard and Mp3tag is:
- ORIGINALYEAR and
- YEAR

Sometimes also when using Picard as I mentioned above ORIGYEAR will also show in Mp3tag, not only ORIGINALYEAR and YEAR (or in Picard they call it Date).
But, I've tested this, and both of these tags are showing when there are "2" YEAR tags after having saved in MusicBee, so the ORIGINALYEAR and ORIGYEAR tags aren't being turned into a second YEAR tag.

Thanks
Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 01:00:20 AM by leeuniverse

Steven

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TYER is intentionally written in addition to TDRC, even though TYER is not a v2.4 tag. The reason i have commented in the code is for backwards compatibility which i recall was an issue for some people.

The Incredible Boom Boom

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I know in Picard DATE shows the Year, then also the Month and Day often if that's been entered.
In Mp3tag that Tag shows as YEAR.  Mp3tag doesn't show "two" dates for me, it only shows YEAR.
So, in both Picard and Mp3tag those values are showing only as "single" values, as DATE in Picard and YEAR in Mp3tag.

When you drag the file showing two YEAR tags into MP3TAG, it only displays one YEAR tag, correct?
There's no DATE tag in that same file?
What are your "Write" options set to in MP3TAG? (CTRL + O -> Tags -> Mpeg)

leeuniverse

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I know in Picard DATE shows the Year, then also the Month and Day often if that's been entered.
In Mp3tag that Tag shows as YEAR.  Mp3tag doesn't show "two" dates for me, it only shows YEAR.
So, in both Picard and Mp3tag those values are showing only as "single" values, as DATE in Picard and YEAR in Mp3tag.

When you drag the file showing two YEAR tags into MP3TAG, it only displays one YEAR tag, correct?
There's no DATE tag in that same file?
What are your "Write" options set to in MP3TAG? (CTRL + O -> Tags -> Mpeg)

1. No...  As shown in the screenshot above, that's from Mp3tag.  Mp3tag is showing two YEAR tags, which is ONLY created after saving with MusicBee.
MusicBee isn't showing an extra YEAR tag because those fields are "hardcoded" in the program to display only one year tag.
Also, I double-checked Picard and it only shows the DATE single tag, so it's not interpreting that extra YEAR tag that shows in Mp3tag.

2. No, Mp3tag shows Picards DATE designation as YEAR.

Here, I'll just include the files for anyone that wants to look at them. (pw: musicbee)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/n0o25vmn85hbbq3/Before_and_After_Save.zip/file

3. Here are my OPTIONS in Mp3tag.... as you requested.
They are all the Default settings, save if I change the primary ID3 used 2.3 or 2.4.  So, I haven't changed anything else otherwise.

Also, I've only saved the file initially in Mp3tag to change the code to 2.4 since I was using 2.3 originally.
And THEN I save the file with MusicBee and it creates all the NULL duplicate Tags, including the duplicate YEAR, as this thread is about.



I also still don't understand why MusicBee is using the NULL value for 2.3 creating duplicate/multi-tags on save since any player that requires 2.3 cannot read multi-tags, and who knows how it will "break" the players reading ability due to that.
I've also further discovered that even Mp3tag not only doesn't "force" save of the NULL on 2.3, they don't even do so on ID3 2.4.  In other words, they keep whatever separator values you are using even when using ID3 2.4.
ONLY if your tags are already saved with the NULL value does it continue to save with NULL, as well if you "manually" change the separators to double-slashes \\ THEN Mp3tag WILL save with the NULL value creating multi-tags.

I've had to work with the Picard people to figure out how to use "Scripts" for the force creation of Multi-tags, because they don't do it for 2.3 either, and for 2.4 they ONLY use the NULL on save creating multi-tags for the GENRE tag.  Other tags you either have to manually open up the EDITOR for a tag (it won't create the null directly in the tag) and put the values on different lines, or use a SCRIPT to create multi-tags for those tags you want them to like I mentioned.  I have to do all this stuff whether I still decide to use 2.3 or go with 2.4 in order to create consistency/compatibility with MusicBee and my other editors.

I initially
- create the main tags in Picard,
- edit/adjust tags in Mp3tag,
- and fill in missing info such as Lyrics, edit images, etc. in MusicBee,
But then MusicBee forcing saving in NULL even when using 2.3 or even 2.4 has entirely messed up compatibility and workflow with the other editors.
I shouldn't have had to do all this...  MusicBee shouldn't even be saving with the NULL value for at least 2.3, nobody else does it, and ONLY Picard does it automatically in 2.4 for the GENRE tag, and the reason they only do the Genre tag is because some editors don't like "mutli-tags" in other Tag fields, they only like them in the Genre Tag, such as the ARTIST tag field, which MusicBee does also change to Null multi-tags.

-------

Anyway, I found a NEW BUG in MusicBee's Tag Editor... when looking at it just now.
The "Original Year" Tag under the Tags (2) tab is not showing the ORIGINALYEAR or ORIGYEAR tag that's in my file.
Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 05:41:50 PM by leeuniverse

hiccup

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I also still don't understand why MusicBee is using the NULL value for 2.3 creating duplicate/multi-tags on save since any player that requires 2.3 cannot read multi-tags, and who knows how it will "break" the players reading ability due to that.
That has been explained to you, but you choose not to accept the explanation, and keep complaining about it both here, and on other fora, misrepresenting what has been discussed here, and discrediting MusicBee and its users and its developer.

Quote
I've had to work with the Picard people to figure out how to use "Scripts" for the force creation of Multi-tags,
You had to 'Work with' ?
You probably mean that they also had to explain and help you with things you didn't understand.

I find it problematic that every time you don't understand something, or don't agree with something, you create a 'bug report'.
While in fact they are actually mostly matters that you don't have a full understanding of, or are a repetition of you complaining about how MusicBee decided on doing things that you personally don't agree with.

It is good practice for any bug report to be to the point, raising a specific reproducible issue that actually breaks functionality.
Please try to understand, respect and stick to such good practice.

'Bugs' is for actual bugs.
'Questions' is for things that you don't understand, can't figure out and need help with.
'Complaints' is not available at this moment. But perhaps your input to this forum justifies considering it to be raised.
Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 09:11:10 PM by hiccup

leeuniverse

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I also still don't understand why MusicBee is using the NULL value for 2.3 creating duplicate/multi-tags on save since any player that requires 2.3 cannot read multi-tags, and who knows how it will "break" the players reading ability due to that.
That has been explained to you, but you choose not to accept the explanation, and keep complaining about it both here, and on other fora, misrepresenting what has been discussed here, and discrediting MusicBee and its users and developer.

Quote
I've had to work with the Picard people to figure out how to use "Scripts" for the force creation of Multi-tags,
You had to 'Work with'
You mean that they also had to explain and help you with things you didn't understand yet.

I find it problematic that every time you don't understand something, or don't agree with something, you create a 'bug report'.
While they are actually mostly matters that you don't have a full understanding of, or are a repetition of you complaining about how MusicBee decided on doing things that you personally don't agree with.

It is good practice for any bug report to be to the point, raising a specific reproducible issue that actually breaks functionality.
Please try to understand, respect and stick to such good practice.

'Bugs' is for actual bugs.
'Questions' is for things that you don't understand, can't figure out and need help with.
'Complaints' is not available at this moment. But perhaps your input to this forum justifies considering it to be raised.

I'm not interested in your personal attacks and misrepresentations...

Move along...  I'm here reporting actual issues.  You're here just causing problems.
I understand perfectly well how the NULL tag works, you however don't comprehend that it's NOT supported by 2.3, and ANY player that requires it also DOES NOT support it, as well NO OTHER Tag Editor creates multi-tags except some do when using 2.4, but ZERO do when using ID3 2.3.
Anyway, I've explained everything, and you make it personal as if my reporting a problem means I have something against MusicBee and the Developer.  Stop LYING.

I've now reported TWO bugs with MusicBee's functionality in this thread... so, I don't need your "lecture".
1. MusicBee Creating duplicate YEAR tags on save is not a "feature" (there is no multi-tag purpose for the YEAR tag).
2. and neither is MusicBee's Editor not displaying the "Original Year" tag under the Tags (2) Tab in MusicBee's Editor, when those values ARE within my music files.

(Note to the DEV if you read this...  The zipped files I sent you (or above) will also show this last issue that's NEW that I've discovered.)

So, stop causing problems...  You living in happy laa laa land with no problems doesn't mean there aren't problems.  Neither does it mean I'm "attacking" MusicBee or its developer.  I'm reporting problems, PERIOD, problems which wouldn't exist as I've said before had MusicBee not been using the NULL (multi-tag) save for 2.3 when it's NOT supported by 2.3.  Again, Picard doesn't do it, and Mp3tag doesn't do it, Mp3tag doesn't even do it on 2.4...  Mp3tag saves whatever Separator people have chosen to use, instead of "forcing" NULL on them.  So don't tell me "I'm" the problem...  I work with these 3 programs, I'm reporting actual problems and compatibility/consistency issues.

One other thing, the other thread that brought this issue out, the Original Poster of it, he's been working with digital music files for 20 years, but you all abused both of us as if we were ignorant.  We aren't, but you are...  Because you can't claim to be "following the standard" when what you're doing is NOT the "standard" for 2.3.  No player that requires 2.3 reads multi-tags, and thus anyone using ID3 2.3 would not WANT multi-tags, thus MusicBee NOT following the actual Standards, is not "me/us" being the ignorant...  If we were, then other Editors, the actual EXPERTS in Tag Editing would do the same, but NONE do so.

MusicBee is the ONLY exception of the some 12 editors and programs I've been trying.  So, I don't need you telling me what I do and don't "understand"....  I know what I do and don't know, and you couldn't be more wrong, because the actual experts in tagging DON'T agree with you, I know because I've talked with them both openly and in PM, as well have used their programs, and if they agreed, they would be doing the same as MusicBee, but they don't.  Mp3tag, which is considered the gold standard of tag editors doesn't even force Null Save for 2.4.

So, what does that tell you?  You've been engaging in nothing but ideologue protectionism, as if any criticism of MusicBee means we don't appreciate MusicBee and the Developer.  Well, it's NOT true...  Reporting problems, wanting them to be be respected and understood, and then wishing for them to be fixed is not "us" being the problem.  But you are in your personal attacks, contributing nothing to helping to fix the issues.

Not a single person at Mp3tag or Picard in which I've posted MANY issues, as well as questions, FAR FAR MORE than I've done so here, have they engaged in personal attacks, made issues personal, as if I'm attacking MusicBee and it's developer etc.  They've listened, explained how I can fix issues or problems I'm having, they've taken feedback to fix issues I've found, including me creating TICKETS in their Bug systems, etc.  So, what is YOUR problem?
Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 09:53:32 PM by leeuniverse

hiccup

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Stop LYING.

Only three literal quotes from you that I found about you recently describing MusicBee on other fora:

"MusicBee decides they want to be special"

"Anyway, MusicBee has decided to be the odd one out, and this has caused me MASSIVE problems… and no amount of trying to explain the problems to them that what they are doing is causing issues with both viewing and editing with EVERYTHING else out there, has been able to change their minds to change how they save separators with those who use 2.3. They think it’s the “ID3 standard” to save/replace separators with the NULL backslashes, when it’s NOT actually the standard for 2.3. It’s only supported in 2.4."

"but then MusicBee decides to screw me, and unfortunately, they don’t care they are doing something that’s NOT Standard, and is screwing those like me who like to edit their tags manually and for them to be consistent."


Where is the lie in me saying that you are:
-  Untruthful in what you write in your posts.
-  Making incorrect insinuations and discrediting MusicBee's users and its developer on other fora.
-  Claiming you have 'discovered' factual bugs, while you are merely whining about things that you don't understand or personally agree with.

b.t.w.
Are you having a recurring issue with the Caps Lock on your keyboard?
Pretty much all your post here and at MusicBrainz are polluted with you shouting random words here and there.

Also, try to refrain on using phrases as 'I have discovered' and 'I have solved' that you seem to be very happy to use.
Perhaps try: "I have learned" instead.

Ask questions and you will get support here.
Act like a dick and you will be treated as one.
Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 09:59:43 PM by hiccup

leeuniverse

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Stop LYING.

Only three literal quotes from you that I found about you recently describing MusicBee on other fora:

"MusicBee decides they want to be special"

"Anyway, MusicBee has decided to be the odd one out, and this has caused me MASSIVE problems… and no amount of trying to explain the problems to them that what they are doing is causing issues with both viewing and editing with EVERYTHING else out there, has been able to change their minds to change how they save separators with those who use 2.3. They think it’s the “ID3 standard” to save/replace separators with the NULL backslashes, when it’s NOT actually the standard for 2.3. It’s only supported in 2.4."

"but then MusicBee decides to screw me, and unfortunately, they don’t care they are doing something that’s NOT Standard, and is screwing those like me who like to edit their tags manually and for them to be consistent."


Where is the lie in me saying that you are:
- untruthful in what you write in your posts
- making incorrect insinuations and discrediting MusicBee's users and its developer
- claiming you have 'discovered' factual bugs, while you are merely whining about things that you don't understand or personally agree with.

b.t.w.
Are you having a recurring issue with the Caps Lock on your keyboard?
Pretty much all your post here and at MusicBrainz are polluted with you shouting random words here and there.

Also, try to refrain on using phrases as 'I have discovered' and 'I have solved' that you seem to be very happy to use.
Perhaps try: "I have learned" instead.

Ask questions and you will get support here.
Act like a dick and you will be treated as one.

Reasonable people know who's the actual ****....  See what I added above in further response to you.
For some reason, even though I've posted like a 100 times in the last couple of months on the Mp3tag and Picard forums, and yet I've only made a small # of posts here, I've never once had issues at those forums.

So, what's the common denominator here... me or YOU...?  You can't take criticism of issues people are having with MusicBee or people reporting problems.  You engage in personal attacks, due to some irrational need to be the "great protector" of MusicBee, instead of dealing with the issues being reported.

BTW, every one of those quotes you took from the Picard forum about MusicBe are 100% True.
I've said nothing factually inaccurate about MusicBee, as well, I was providing CONTEXT to my problem, and asking THEM for help, since YOU would NOT help and the MusicBee Dev CHOSE to also not help by not making how MusicBee SAVES with 2.3 in the actual "Standards" of 2.3.
All of this is factually correct...  So, you falsely attribute "malice" where there is none.  Thus you LIE.

And guess what, my problem was solved by people actually helpful, unlike people like YOU.
MusicBee in contrast has chosen to make it so both me, the original poster of the other thread, and others like us who also use the ID3 2.3 standard CANNOT USE MusicBee's Editor.  So, you can complain about me and he, or those like us, pointing out an actual problem all you want, but those who personally attack and don't help fix problems are the actual "problem".  So, enjoy.
Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 10:31:18 PM by leeuniverse

hiccup

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For some reason, even though I've posted like a 100 times in the last couple of months on the Mp3tag and Picard forums, and yet I've only made a small # of posts here, I've never once had issues there.
So, what's the common denominator here... me or YOU...?
I am aware that you even contradicted and challenged the developer of mp3tag.
Big balls on you.
The developer of mp3tag is much wiser and more mature than me, and he only revealed and explained your misconceptions and mistakes to you in a patient, friendly and mature manner.

The same goes for MusicBrainz. Most forum members there are very understanding of new users that sometimes are confused or frustrated, and so they have not made things difficult for you, and gave you a lot of friendly parental guidance.

Same as this MusicBee forum, which is also extremely friendly, welcoming and supportive.
It just happens it has one member hiding behind the moniker of hiccup that is allergic to pompous self-important persons that—without much knowledge and experience—jump into the forum, introduce themselves by creating bug reports instead of asking questions first, believe they have invented the wheel, while they have no clue about the road to be travelled.
And with the objective to help in keeping the forum healthy and honest, this hiccup (me) is willing and motivated to expose and confront such ignorant and arrogant behaviour as soon as possible.
(perhaps as some comfort to you: I am sure you will not be the only one that doesn't agree with my actions and responses)

So, in my personal opinion, the common denominator is you.
You have been raising issues all over respected and experienced software forums.
Pretty much all of your issues based on a lack of understanding and experience about the matters at hand.

If anyone explains things in a way that you are able to understand and agree with, they are geniuses.
If 99 people disagree with your opinion, they don't get it, are stubborn, unwilling, or do things "only to be different".
And if only one person agrees with you, you say "great minds think alike!".

I am aware my input here is derailing this specific topic, so this is my last post here.
I am afraid we'll meet again elsewhere.
Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 11:36:02 PM by hiccup

The Incredible Boom Boom

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Here, I'll just include the files for anyone that wants to look at them. (pw: musicbee)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/n0o25vmn85hbbq3/Before_and_After_Save.zip/file

I just checked your files and is as @Steven says: there are both a TYER and a TDRC tag present.
The reasoning he provided is also sound, as (I'm under the impression) many software and mobile players do not play well with ID3v2.4 tags.

Quote
I also still don't understand why MusicBee is using the NULL value for 2.3 creating duplicate/multi-tags on save since any player that requires 2.3 cannot read multi-tags, and who knows how it will "break" the players reading ability due to that.

🙄

Quote
Anyway, I found a NEW BUG in MusicBee's Tag Editor... when looking at it just now.
The "Original Year" Tag under the Tags (2) tab is not showing the ORIGINALYEAR or ORIGYEAR tag that's in my file.

As @hiccup says, your limited understanding of how tagging specifications and mappings work does not mean the program(s) you are interacting with contain bugs. You have more to learn and understand.

phred

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Since Steven has already stated why this is not a bug, and since the conversation is starting to go off the rails, I am locking this thread.

TYER is intentionally written in addition to TDRC, even though TYER is not a v2.4 tag. The reason i have commented in the code is for backwards compatibility which i recall was an issue for some people.
Download the latest MusicBee v3.5 or 3.6 patch from here.
Unzip into your MusicBee directory and overwrite existing files.

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