Author Topic: How to disable MusicBee getting ratings from tags?  (Read 6585 times)

ma_t14

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Something I'm seeing upon testing though, is that MB removes any existing embeded track rating tag when you change the rating while the option "store ratings in music file" is disabled. So it's either one or the other, which would make sense for clarity and implementation simplicity (but at the same time pose problems in certain situations).

I initially thought that enabling/disabling "store ratings in music file is disabled" merely changes the precedence of which rating should be displayed (embedded or  library stored) but evidently that's not the case.

That might be an issue for you @SonicRings, if you've been doing rating modifications, given that you wanted to preserve the embeded ratings.
Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 04:27:05 PM by ma_t14

hiccup

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Something I'm seeing upon testing though, is that MB removes any existing embeded track rating tag when you change the rating while the option "store ratings in music file" is disabled. So it's either one or the other, which would make sense for clarity and implementation simplicity (but at the same time pose problems in certain situations).

If it wouldn't do that, how long do you think it would take before users started posting bug reports because 'MusicBee displays a wrong rating, because the Tag Inspector shows a different rating'?

ma_t14

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Something I'm seeing upon testing though, is that MB removes any existing embeded track rating tag when you change the rating while the option "store ratings in music file" is disabled. So it's either one or the other, which would make sense for clarity and implementation simplicity (but at the same time pose problems in certain situations).

If it wouldn't do that, how long do you think it would take before users started posting bug reports because 'MusicBee displays a wrong rating, because the Tag Inspector shows a different rating'?

I'm sure they would if it wasn't adequetly claried in the settings. As I said, it does make sense for clarity reasons.

I mentioned that because it was valueable to the discussion, I'm personally not against the current behaviour.

hiccup

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I mentioned that because it was valueable to the discussion, I'm personally not against the current behaviour.

I understand that, it was just a good opportunity for me to explain why I think this wish is a bad idea ;-)

If somebody wants to have duplicate ratings for his music, MusicBee already has the possibility to create custom tags for that purpose, and set the fields for those to 'rating'.
(I personally am not sure that feature functions flawlessly b.t.w., but that is a different matter)

ma_t14

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As a concept it probably doesn't make much sense to implement.

But I still trust Steven would had been able to implement it in a way that would be understandable if he were to  do it ;-)

SonicRings

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Following the discussion and after getting a better understanding of the OP's usecase, what is essentially being asked is, for a way to differentiate between rating tags that are stored within the files themselves and rating tags stored in MusicBee's library.

Since MB already intentionally provides a way to store ratings in its library (which some other programs don't) I can see how a way to differentiate between embeded rating tags would make sense and further re-enforce that same usecase.

Making it available as a field (e.g. library rating) would be enough.
THANK YOU! Someone finally gets it!

Something I'm seeing upon testing though, is that MB removes any existing embeded track rating tag when you change the rating while the option "store ratings in music file" is disabled. So it's either one or the other, which would make sense for clarity and implementation simplicity (but at the same time pose problems in certain situations).

I initially thought that enabling/disabling "store ratings in music file is disabled" merely changes the precedence of which rating should be displayed (embedded or  library stored) but evidently that's not the case.

That might be an issue for you @SonicRings, if you've been doing rating modifications, given that you wanted to preserve the embeded ratings.
Actually I've never had this behaviour. When I change a song's rating within musicbee, its rating tag does not change.

In fact, until my testing right now, tracks I used to re-rate and un-rate that had rating tags would re-acquire their rating from the tag automatically. Now that I'm testing, though, that isn't the case: the rating tag still persists, but the track actually keeps its new rating that I've set within musicbee.

I've tested this with tracks that have RATING tag as well as RATING WMP tag just now and both have given me the same result. Seeing how musicbee isn't re-acquiring the rating from the tag anymore, this is definitely good news for me. I can simply re-rate or un-rate the songs whose rating tags I don't want considered and be on my way. Hopefully they don't randomly re-acquire the ratings in the future.

hiccup

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THANK YOU! Someone finally gets it!

I'm pretty sure everybody else participating in this thread also 'got it'. Your request is not rocket science.
(even though your intentions why it would be useful were not very well explained in the beginning)
You just don't like the opinions about it.

And you forgot to quote the last remark of the person who you believe is the only one 'who gets it', which was:
"As a concept it probably doesn't make much sense to implement."

So, at this moment there is still nobody who thinks it would be a good idea to get your wish implemented.
Perhaps still nobody is getting it?

ma_t14

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To clarify, after finding out about the behaviour where either one or the other of the tags is kept I thought it would be too much work to implement, for something so niche.

But if it was already able to keep track of both tags then this would be much simpler to implement obviously. As I mentioned before, exposing the "library rating" tag as a seperate field which can then be used by whomever for whatever purpose without polluting existing functionality.

But it's interesting that this is the way it used to work for you before SonicRings, I'm not sure what is going on there. Steven should be able to chime in on that one.

ma_t14

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@SonicRings Just to be sure that we are on the same page. When I tested that I first had the option "store rating in the music file" enabled. That allowed me to change the rating tag embeded in the file. After that, I disabled the option and changed the rating again. That resulted in the embeded rating tag to be removed. I could see the change using the tag inspector.

Are you saying that for you it works or used to work differently at some  point?

SonicRings

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THANK YOU! Someone finally gets it!

I'm pretty sure everybody else participating in this thread also 'got it'. Your request is not rocket science.
(even though your intentions why it would be useful were not very well explained in the beginning)
You just don't like the opinions about it.

And you forgot to quote the last remark of the person who you believe is the only one 'who gets it', which was:
"As a concept it probably doesn't make much sense to implement."

So, at this moment there is still nobody who thinks it would be a good idea to get your wish implemented.
Perhaps still nobody is getting it?
I think if there was anyone not getting it, it was you, since after all was said and done, you still didn't understand what I was asking in my previous thread lol.

Look, I get it. You don't agree with my wishlist request. You voted. You've voiced and explained your opinion. You've done your part. Be on your way please. Don't keep bringing things up trying to provoke me. I didn't come here to argue. This serves no purpose other than to circle jerk, which isn't the intent of the forum nor my thread.

While we're still on the topic of having forgotten to "quote the last remark of the person who i believe is the only one 'who gets it'", let me do that:


But I still trust Steven would had been able to implement it in a way that would be understandable if he were to  do it ;-)

I agree with this completely. I respect their opinion that it may not make the most sense. However they still believe that, should Steven implement it, he would do so in a manner that would not cause confusion. I believe this as well, because as I suggested, he can make the local database take precedence when the "store ratings in the music file" setting is unchecked. To recap one last time, since I don't allow musicbee to SAVE ratings to tags, I would naturally also expect musicbee to not GET ratings from tags.

Let's put this debate to rest now since I don't see us reaching a conclusion at the current rate.

To clarify, after finding out about the behaviour where either one or the other of the tags is kept I thought it would be too much work to implement, for something so niche.

But if it was already able to keep track of both tags then this would be much simpler to implement obviously. As I mentioned before, exposing the "library rating" tag as a seperate field which can then be used by whomever for whatever purpose without polluting existing functionality.

But it's interesting that this is the way it used to work for you before SonicRings, I'm not sure what is going on there. Steven should be able to chime in on that one.
Yeah, MusicBee clearly keeps track of internally rated tracks separately from the tracks that simply have their ratings stored in the tags. Therefore I think it's completely possible for Steven to allow us to ignore the tags without impacting the internal ratings.

@SonicRings Just to be sure that we are on the same page. When I tested that I first had the option "store rating in the music file" enabled. That allowed me to change the rating tag embeded in the file. After that, I disabled the option and changed the rating again. That resulted in the embeded rating tag to be removed. I could see the change using the tag inspector.

Are you saying that for you it works or used to work differently at some  point?

I've never enabled that setting so it seems that our methods of testing are the reason we've experienced different results. I can imagine that once you enable the setting to store all ratings to the tags, later disabling it would then remove all tags' ratings.

frankz

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My objection wasn't about it being simple or difficult to implement.  That's not my call, and I don't think every change that's simple to implement should be implemented.  

My objection was to making a yet another new setting somewhere in MusicBee to account for an alternate set of values in one tag because a single user, who doesn't want to use them for anything, might possibly want to look at them and sentimentally reminisce about them some time in the future.

MB already has a pretty healthy learning curve, which isn't a bad thing per se because most of what you have to learn has, if not universal value, at least very widespread value.  This additional complication would pretty much have a target audience of one.

Two cents and all. Take it for what it's worth.
A smile is happiness you'll find right under your nose.

ma_t14

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I've never enabled that setting so it seems that our methods of testing are the reason we've experienced different results. I can imagine that once you enable the setting to store all ratings to the tags, later disabling it would then remove all tags' ratings.

The thing is, that shouldn't really matter. The tag is removed when I edit the track rating, not when I enable/disable the setting. Keeping the setting unchecked still gives the same result.

hiccup

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…I thought it would be too much work to implement, for something so niche…

That is exactly what everybody else in this thread the wishlist thread is saying.
It is not about not understanding the request, and it is not about it being technically possible or not.

It is about making changes to MusicBee to accommodate for a very personal requirement, for a reason I personally don't find valid.
It would not be an improvement, it doesn't solve any actual problem, and it is very likely to cause issues and confusion for other users at a later moment in time.
Also it would be inconsistent with how MusicBee currently manages tags.

edit:
I replied with this since I thought this was still going on in the wishlist topic. My mistake.
Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 11:04:39 PM by hiccup

SonicRings

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My objection wasn't about it being simple or difficult to implement.  That's not my call, and I don't think every change that's simple to implement should be implemented.  

My objection was to making a yet another new setting somewhere in MusicBee to account for an alternate set of values in one tag because a single user, who doesn't want to use them for anything, might possibly want to look at them and sentimentally reminisce about them some time in the future.

MB already has a pretty healthy learning curve, which isn't a bad thing per se because most of what you have to learn has, if not universal value, at least very widespread value.  This additional complication would pretty much have a target audience of one.

Two cents and all. Take it for what it's worth.
I understand what you mean about overcomplicating things with an overabundance of settings.
That's the thing though, there wouldn't need to be a new setting because the current setting should already be behaving in the manner that I am requesting. Again, since I don't allow musicbee to SAVE ratings to tags, I would naturally also expect musicbee to not GET ratings from tags. The setting being disabled should thus already ignore rating tags, yet it doesn't. It doesn't make a ton of sense to satisfy one of these and not the other.

I've never enabled that setting so it seems that our methods of testing are the reason we've experienced different results. I can imagine that once you enable the setting to store all ratings to the tags, later disabling it would then remove all tags' ratings.

The thing is, that shouldn't really matter. The tag is removed when I edit the track rating, not when I enable/disable the setting. Keeping the setting unchecked still gives the same result.
I really don't know what to say then. I've just re-rated a bunch of my files that have the RATING tag and a bunch of other files that have the RATING WMP tag to un-rated, and all of them still have their original RATING and RATING WMP tags with their original values.

ma_t14

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I really don't know what to say then. I've just re-rated a bunch of my files that have the RATING tag and a bunch of other files that have the RATING WMP tag to un-rated, and all of them still have their original RATING and RATING WMP tags with their original values.

Okay, I see  what is going on. This might be a bug afterall since the behaviour is not consistent.

If you rate the track from within the main panel then the embeded rating is preserved.

If you rate the track using the tag editor (shift+enter) and save, then the embeded rating is removed.

Can you confirm?