Author Topic: How to have Bit-Perfect playback on DSD files?  (Read 617 times)

DapPOWER

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Hello, I'm wondering how I can have bit perfect playback with DSD files on MusicBee, it seems that its always converting any DSD format (even DSD64) to PCM 88KhZ.

My laptop is connected to my external DAC that supports up to DSD512.

Things I have tried,

-Audirvarna, I used the free trial on it and is supports bit perfect DSD playback.
-On MusicBee settings, I have tried to disable any settings that normalize volume or fade in or fade out which may force a resample of DSD playback.

Is there anything else I should try?


phred

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Is there anything else I should try?
Have you tried searching the forum? This has been discussed many times. Although I will admit that I don't know if a proper answer was ever provided. Don't use the forum search. Instead enter "site:getmusicbee.com/forum bit perfect" (without the quotes) into the Google search bar.
Download the latest MusicBee v3.4 patch from here.
Unzip into your MusicBee directory and overwrite existing files.

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Check out the MusicBee Wiki.
How to post screenshots is here.

DapPOWER

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I haven't found any tips yet that were helpful for me.

I'm sure it is possible to get bit perfect playback with DSDs without converting to PCM.

sveakul

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MusicBee supports pure DSD playback (raw or via DOP) if you are using ASIO drivers as your output.  Any kind of DSP including the built-in EQ must be disabled or it will mess with the stream (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=4863.msg84962#msg84962).  Be sure you have bassdsd.dll version 2.4.1.2 or greater in your MusicBee directory; also I recommend using the latest bassasio.dll (version 1.4.0.3) available at www.un4seen.com/stuff/bassasio.zip .

If you have ASIO drivers installed, choose them as the output in Prefs->Player, then hit the Configure button next to it to see the options below (the other Configure button here brings up the driver's control panel if any):

Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 01:44:55 AM by sveakul

Steven

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to be honest i am uncertain the raw dsd/ dop is actually working as i dont have a suitable setup myself and i dont think i have had anyone confirm it is working

sveakul

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to be honest i am uncertain the raw dsd/ dop is actually working as i dont have a suitable setup myself and i dont think i have had anyone confirm it is working
Alas, I am also without a suitable setup to test myself.  I read through the entire thread (albeit old) that I referenced in my last post, and several people commented that DOP was indeed working correctly, and while direct DSD was problematic, there was a post that claimed success there (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=4863.msg163672#msg163672).  The problems with mis-identification of file properties that were reported are probably all fixed now with the latest update, which I can confirm here.

To the OP DapPOWER--can you please now test the ASIO solution and tell us if/what is working via DOP or raw DSD?

hiccup

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Alas, I am also without a suitable setup to test myself.
Personally I am not very interested in using the DSD format, so I also haven't read this or other threads concerning related issues/developments very well.
But I happen to have some DSD files in various formats/qualities lying around that I have used for other testing purposes. And I have some time to spare.
If you could help me by explaining in simple wordings what to test I can give it a try?

edit:
Hmm, maybe my DAC is not that well suited for testing this.
Even though the specs say that both it's usb receiver and it's dac chip should be able to handle DSD, when I use 'stream raw DSD data' I get nothing but noise or silence with all my test files.


 
Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 06:42:14 PM by hiccup

sveakul

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Thanks hiccup for the test.  Does it work properly if you choose Stream DSD data as PCM (DOP)??  If so, I would think that would please most people as-is since DACs that support DOP (I'm guessing most do?) would still get a bit-perfect DSD stream when extracted from the PCM container.  I read it also bypasses the need to have special USB drivers.

Also, can you try the same test using the latest bass.dll (www.un4seen.com/stuff/bass.zip) with this development version of bassasio.dll (www.un4seen.com/stuff/bassasio.zip)?  I'm asssuming you already have bassdsd.dll version 2.4.1.2.  Thanks!

hiccup

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No problem at all, I will probably report back sometime tomorrow.

sveakul

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Appreciated!  It would be nice to nail this thing down once and for all, although my feeling is the results may be extremely dependent on specific hardware/drivers and so end up permanently in the YMMV category.

hiccup

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Also, can you try the same test using the latest bass.dll (www.un4seen.com/stuff/bass.zip) with this development version of bassasio.dll (www.un4seen.com/stuff/bassasio.zip)?  I'm asssuming you already have bassdsd.dll version 2.4.1.2.  Thanks!
When using DOP, DSD64 and DSD128 files play fine. DSD256 will not play (unable to start playback)
I observed no differences when using the two newer versions of bass.dll and bassasio.dll.
I did notice that when using DOP, the spectrum visualiser and the volume visualizer do not function.

When I use 'convert to PCM', DSD256 also plays fine, and the visualisers both work.
Using 'stream raw DSD data': nothing but noise, or silence, or a loud beep.

sveakul

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Many thanks hiccup for some fully documented testing of this, what a breath of fresh air.  Steven will have some hard data to pass along to the bassdsd.dll developer, which is probably the key to this.

While a single case, at least it can be passed on to the users that using DOP with DSD64 and DSD128 CAN WORK.  Most who are following this already know what DOP is but for "them what's doesn't" it is a stream transport method that encapsulates raw DSD into a PCM wrapper.  The wrapper is then discarded at the DAC and the raw DSD reassembled, resulting in bit-perfect DSD exactly as if the "stream raw DSD data" option was used.  It is also not dependent on special USB drivers to handle DSD.

Why the original poster didn't get involved in the testing I don't know, but any others who can do so, PLEASE DO.  For now I'm back to my old friend Wasapi-Exclusive, as I have no DSF in my collection, nor do I own a DAC (yet).  And I just realized Realtek HD came with Asio drivers a week ago, which while working fine with MusicBee have no discernible advantage over Wasapi-Exclusive other than the ability to play DOP/DSD.  But the concept is cool and I hope someday becomes fully functional.

hiccup

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… as I have no DSF in my collection…
If you (or other members) would like to try some, there are websites that offer free testing downloads.
I believe I got some from here: http://www.2l.no/hires/

hiccup

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For what it's worth:

Getting curious about the limitations of my DAC or perhaps MusicBee, I thought to see how well foobar2000 handled my testing files.
(often regarded as some golden standard for no-nonsense audiophiles)
The answer: not at all. It won't play them.

You will need to add several 3rd party components for asio, dsf, something called asio proxy, or whatever to be able to play them.
I couldn't be bothered with that.

To me that confirms my belief that there is no added value in DSD compared to the existing lossless formats.
It may be interesting from a technical standpoint, but putting effort (or money) in DSD in my opinion serves no practical purpose and won't do anything to improve on sound quality.


edit:
Slightly off-topic, but also related to all this: For the MusicBee users that put effort in getting ASIO to work or believe it is superior to wasapi, here a quote from the developer of foobar2000 who created an ASIO component himself:

"Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance."
Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 03:55:12 PM by hiccup

Mr. Trev

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It definitely is a chore setting Foobar up to do DSD (here's a guide for those not familiar: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/)

Once setup though, it is rather trouble free - whether it's worthwhile sound wise, is up to the individual.

I have noticed on my laptop, that once I had "DSD transcoder (https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/dsd_transcoder/)" installed, it would also show up as an ASIO output in Musicbee. It does work, but my DAC doesn't have a display (Topping D30) so I can't confirm if it truly is bitperfect DSD.