All Tracks at Same Volume

[DesertRobot111]

I know this is asked all the time, but I haven't found a comprehensive answer. Everything sounds contradictory. I just want all my songs to play the the same volume. I don't care about relativity to other songs in the album like Parabol by Tool being quieter than Parabola. I just want them all to be the same. If you take nothing else away from this question and just want to throw an answer at me, I just want the easiest way to normalize the volume of all my tracks. If you don't read anything else that's fine.

I thought the easiest way would be use the Analyse Volume tool set to "on track basis" but then I the message, "The values in the status column show the dB adjustment required to prevent clipping." Does that mean that the track is set the dB listed in the status bar, or do I have to like make a not of it and analyse the volume of that track with the replaygain slider set to whatever is listed? Also, if I don't have the "alert when the replaygain adjustment would cause clipping" box checked would it adjust it correctly to prevent clipping?

I also have some really quiet tracks, should I go to those tracks and analyse their volumes while using the replaygain slider to bump them louder so when I analyze the rest of my tracks they wouldn't all be giving negative dB values? Or is there another solution to this?

[hiccup]

You can perform the analyses with 'alert on clipping' unchecked.
Depending on the original loudness of a song and on how high you have set the 'target loudness' slider, that can result in some digital distortion that may or not be noticed and/or bother you.

The lower you set the slider, the less chance of songs clipping.
(for my classical library I have it by default at -6, which minimises occasions where I have to manully adjust it lower)

But that could make the songs play not loud enough to your taste on less powerful devices such as phones.

The best thing for you is probably to try out some settings, listen to the results, and then decide on what works for you.

[DesertRobot111]

You can perform the analyses with 'alert on clipping' unchecked.
Depending on the original loudness of a song and on how high you have set the 'target loudness' slider, that can result in some digital distortion that may or not be noticed and/or bother you.

The lower you set the slider, the less chance of songs clipping.
(for my classical library I have it by default at -6, which minimises occasions where I have to manully adjust it lower)

But that could make the songs play not loud enough to your taste on less powerful devices such as phones.

The best thing for you is probably to try out some settings, listen to the results, and then decide on what works for you.

Okay, so I've analysed the volume of all my songs on a track basis with the target slider set to 0, and I have some songs at +13dB and some at -14dB. The majority are between -12dB and -3dB. All the songs that had dB adjustments to prevent clipping listed in the status column are between -0.1dB and -5dB, but some of them had positive track gain and others have negative track gain. What does any of this mean?

[hiccup]

All the songs that had dB adjustments to prevent clipping listed in the status column are between -0.1dB and -5dB, but some of them had positive track gain and others have negative track gain. What does any of this mean?

If you set the slider to the value of e.g. '0', it will make songs that are perceived by the human brain to be louder less loud, and songs that are perceived less loud louder.
So obviously some songs will get negative, and others positive values.

What is important to understand is that '0' is not actually representing zero in any way.
It's also important to understand that the normalising feature uses an algorithm that tries to guess how loud a song as a whole is perceived by our brains. So it's not simply looking for some determined value such as the softest or the loudest part of a song.

[DesertRobot111]

What is important to understand is that '0' is not actually representing zero in any way.
It's also important to understand that the normalising feature uses an algorithm that tries to guess how loud a song as a whole is perceived by our brains. So it's not simply looking for some determined value such as the softest or the loudest part of a song.

I understand that some songs are gonna be positive and others are gonna be negative, what I'm failing to understand is why all the songs that say they have clipping issues have negative dB adjustments to prevent clipping.

For example (-) Ions by TOOL has a +1.44dB track gain, but the recommended adjustment to prevent clipping is -1.0dB, while another song will have a -4dB track gain and a recommended adjustment of -2dB. So what does it want me to do?

Also, I had read and was under the impression that the Analyse Volume tool finds a point between your loudest track and your quietest track and bases everything off of that. So if I have a very quiet track it's going to bump it up to the "middle point" and lower everything else. This would also explain why so many of my songs are too quiet even with the player at max volume. I thought I got around that with using album gain, but even then I find the variation to be too much for certain songs, so I finally broke down and decided to ask and here I am.

[hiccup]

For example (-) Ions by TOOL has a +1.44dB track gain, but the recommended adjustment to prevent clipping is -1.0dB, while another song will have a -4dB track gain and a recommended adjustment of -2dB. So what does it want me to do?

What do you mean by "another song will have"?
Are you perhaps mixing up things in this sentence, and is the +1.44dB value a result of analysis, and the -4dB value a setting of the slider that you set yourself?

The loudness of a song is increased or decreased as a whole. So there will be no changing of volume during playing of a song.

[DesertRobot111]

What do you mean by "another song will have"?
Are you perhaps mixing up things in this sentence, and is the +1.44dB value a result of analysis, and the -4dB value a setting of the slider that you set yourself?

The loudness of a song is increased or decreased as a whole. So there will be no changing of volume during playing of a song.

I know that the volume of the song overall will go up. I'm not trying to get the volume to change while the song is playing. I never said that.

Let me just describe what I'm doing and what I'm seeing. I'm selecting all my songs, running the Analyse Volume tool on a track basis with the adjustment slider at 0. When that finishes I get a warning that some of my songs will have clipping and the text, "The values in the status column show the dB adjustment required to prevent clipping." All the numbers in that column are between -0.1dB and -5dB. I then close the Analyze Volume tool and scroll through my list of songs with the track gain set as one of the columns. So I see the Artist, Title, Album, Year, Track Gain, and Time. I can see that I have track gain between +14dB and -13dB with the majority of my songs between -12dB and -4dB track gain. When I look at a song that was listed in the Analyse Volume tool as needing "dB adjustment required to prevent clipping" I see that some have positive track gain and others have negative. For example, one song will have a track gain of +3dB and in the Analyse Volume tool it said it needed a "dB adjustment required to prevent clipping" of -2dB. If I go to another song that needed a "dB adjustment required to prevent clipping" it will have a track gain of -5dB with the adjustment needed to prevent clipping being -1dB.

[hiccup]

I know that the volume of the song overall will go up. I'm not trying to get the volume to change while the song is playing. I never said that.

I have then misinterpreted when you wrote "So if I have a very quiet track it's going to bump it up to the "middle point" and lower everything else."

Just to be very sure; do you understand that MusicBee's 0 setting has nothing to do with zero?
(See the image at the bottom what an factual correct scale looks like. MusicBee's 0 position could be considered a rather high value)

For example, one song will have a track gain of +3dB and in the Analyse Volume tool it said it needed a "dB adjustment required to prevent clipping" of -2dB.
If I go to another song that needed a "dB adjustment required to prevent clipping" it will have a track gain of -5dB with the adjustment needed to prevent clipping being -1dB.

For the first song, MusicBee increased the loudness with 3dB to achieve -18LUFS.
That increase causes clipping for that song, and to avoid that MusicBee tells you to lower it by 2dB.

For the second song, the way I read what you say can't happen. (so I am probably reading it wrong)
It reads to me that you had the slider at 0.
MB then decreased the loudness by -4dB to also achieve -18LUFS, and then you had to lower the slider by an extra -1dB to avoid clipping, so you ended up at -5dB for that track.
That can't be the case. A track that had it's original loudness decreased (resulting in a negative track gain value) can never clip.

[DesertRobot111]

I have then misinterpreted when you wrote "So if I have a very quiet track it's going to bump it up to the "middle point" and lower everything else."

Yes, what I was trying to say by "middle point" was the volume MB is trying to make every song when you use the Analyze Volume tool. Like it selects a volume between your loudest song and your quietest song and that becomes your "middle point." When you run the Analyze Volume tool it tries to make all your songs the volume of your "middle point." Or atleast that's what I remember reading when I first tried understanding all of this. I've by trying to find a solution for a long time. If I understand it correctly, my very quiet songs are going to lower my "middle point" so most of my songs are going to be too quiet and have negative track gain because my "middle point" is too low.

Just to be very sure; do you understand that MusicBee's 0 setting has nothing to do with zero?

Yes. The zero setting and the slider is only how much the Analyze Volume tool will raise your volume from what it's already trying to do. If I have the slider on +2dB and the Analyze Volume tool says a song should be -5dB, I'll end up with a -3dB track gain. The problem is I can crank it up to its max of +6dB and I'll still have songs too quiet.

For the first song, MusicBee increased the loudness with 3dB to achieve -18LUFS.
That increase causes clipping for that song, and to avoid that MusicBee tells you to lower it by 2dB.

For the second song, the way I read what you say can't happen. (so I am probably reading it wrong)
It reads to me that you had the slider at 0.
MB then decreased the loudness by -4dB to also achieve -18LUFS, and then you had to lower the slider by an extra -1dB to avoid clipping, so you ended up at -5dB for that track.
That can't be the case. A track that had it's original loudness decreased (resulting in a negative track gain value) can never clip.

That's what I'm asking about. Don't judge my choice in music okay. Here's a pic

The Analyze Volume tool gave it -3.64dB track gain but it says it needs a -1.7dB adjustment to prevent clipping. So WTF does that mean?

[hiccup]

Like it selects a volume between your loudest song and your quietest song and that becomes your "middle point." When you run the Analyze Volume tool it tries to make all your songs the volume of your "middle point.

MusicBee does not analyse your library for some average loudness, and it will not try to find 'a middle point'.
It's loudness analyser only looks at what you feed it at that moment.

What you call 'middle point' is something that the (hidden) algorithm behind the analyser uses. It's designed to figure out how loud a song (or spoken word, or a movie, or a TV commercial) is perceived by an average person of an average age with average ears.
(Google for EBU R128 to learn more about it)

Yes. The zero setting and the slider is only how much the Analyze Volume tool will raise your volume from what it's already trying to do. If I have the slider on +2dB and the Analyze Volume tool says a song should be -5dB, I'll end up with a -3dB track gain.

If you mean that you will end up with the song containing a Track Gain tag with the value of -3dB, that's not the case.
That value will depend on the calculated perceived loudness of that track and will rarely be a single digit.

If you meant that you ended up needing to set the slider at -3 in this case, then yes.

(I am not trying to be nitpicky, but other users may stumble upon this thread some day trying to figure things out, and then it's good to
be precise)

The problem is I can crank it up to its max of +6dB and I'll still have songs too quiet.

I am then guessing there is a mixer or a volume slider somewhere in your audio chain that is responsible for that.
(sound card, Windows mixer, other software or plugins)
At +6dB many songs should be extremely loud.

The Analyze Volume tool gave it -3.64dB track gain but it says it needs a -1.7dB adjustment to prevent clipping. So WTF does that mean?

I have no effing idea. That should not happen.
Could you PM me a link to that song?

[hiccup]

The Analyze Volume tool gave it -3.64dB track gain but it says it needs a -1.7dB adjustment to prevent clipping. So WTF does that mean?

I have no effing idea. That should not happen.

Hm, maybe I have an idea.
Is the track in a lossy format such as mp3?
If so, can you convert it to flac, and then run the analysis on the flac version too?

It could be that the lossy compression is complicating exact analysis of peaks, or that perhaps the algorithm is applying some extra headroom to it to avoid possible clipping problems and be on the safe side.

[Steven]

lossy files can decode to values > 1, so even when you reduce the volume it can still peak > 1

[DesertRobot111]

Yes. The zero setting and the slider is only how much the Analyze Volume tool will raise your volume from what it's already trying to do. If I have the slider on +2dB and the Analyze Volume tool says a song should be -5dB, I'll end up with a -3dB track gain.

If you mean that you will end up with the song containing a Track Gain tag with the value of -3dB, that's not the case.
That value will depend on the calculated perceived loudness of that track and will rarely be a single digit.

If you meant that you ended up needing to set the slider at -3 in this case, then yes.

(I am not trying to be nitpicky, but other users may stumble upon this thread some day trying to figure things out, and then it's good to
be precise)

The way I described it is exactly how my volume analyzer is working.


I have the song Cochise that I have used the "Restore Original Volume" tool to remove any gain tags.


I'm then running the volume analyzer with 0dB adjustment.

And that gives me this

Cochise with a track gain of -10.83dB

If I then use the "Restore Original Volume" tool again and run the volume analyzer like this;

With a +2dB adjustment, I get a track gain of -8.83dB

Which you can see here


And for the sake of argument, I have the Audioslave CD, which I used MB's CD rip tool to encode as mp3s under the Maximum Quality profile.
I can take a pic of my settings if you need.


All of this is to say that I know how the volume analyzer tool works and how to use it, but it's still giving me songs with -14dB track gain that are far quieter than what they should be, and songs with +13dB track gain which are too loud. If I'm wrong about the "middle point" thing that's fine, but I'd rather not have to go through all my music individually trying to find the one's that are too quiet or too loud. Is there another way?

The Analyze Volume tool gave it -3.64dB track gain but it says it needs a -1.7dB adjustment to prevent clipping. So WTF does that mean?

I have no effing idea. That should not happen.
Could you PM me a link to that song?

I'll just post it here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15valL2My0uThF2Y9Tr8uUppp57BMQYQc/view?usp=sharing
Let me know if you can't download it

[DesertRobot111]

lossy files can decode to values > 1, so even when you reduce the volume it can still peak > 1

I hate to be the "What does that mean" guy but uh... what does that mean?

So like mp3 can decode to values greater than 1. Greater than one what? Are you saying the file I shared a pic of with the -3.64dB track gain is still so loud it's causing clipping and needed to be reduced by another 1.7dB?

Is there a way to enable MusicBee to just do that so I wouldn't have to note down all of the tracks that have recommended adjustments, and how much those adjustments are, then have to go through them one by one using the volume analyzer to correct it?

[hiccup]

but I'd rather not have to go through all my music individually trying to find the one's that are too quiet or too loud. Is there another way?

Most MusicBee users with your user case will probably have the slider somewhere between -3 and 0, and never ever have to worry about clipping or the need to do any further adjustments.

MusicBee is using the EBU R128 algorithm which is the professional grade standard for loudness calculating.
You are the first person I know of that finds it's results are not very good.
For tracks you are not satisfied with the results with, you will then indeed need to make a manual adjustment.