syncing and access questions - android

[count0]

First off - LOVE MusicBee.  best desktop music manager i've used yet.

I recently traded in my iPhone for an HTC Inspire, in part because I could get more control for things like using MusicBee to manage my music.  Always hated iTunes.  At any rate, after a couple of false starts I seem to be getting music synced to the phone okay using disk drive mode.  I have a couple of questions still, though:

1) when I sync my device, is MusicBee merging the info on the phone and desktop instances of the files or replacing the phone with the desktop files?  I haven't done any formal tests on this, but was wondering about updating play count and ratings from phone use.

2) I connect my phone at home to sync, and I'd swear I see everything - music files and playlists - in the phone's \music directory as per the sync settings in preferences.  However, when I connect it to MusicBee at work to listen through my computer's speakers, all of the music files are greyed out, a bunch appear to be missing tag info like artist, and I (sometimes) see no playlists.  I was actually able to drop the grayed-out files to 'Now Playing' and play them.  In addition, if I go to the file in Windows Explorer I can see all the tag info is present.  Do I need to sync the phone to my work machine as well, or maybe add the drive to my library?

[adding one more question after initial post]
...3) Is it possible to sync playlists from the device to the desktop?  The sync list selection in preferences only has what is on the desktop.  If I have a playlist on my phone I'd like to sync to desktop can I move that without re-creating it manually?

[Steven]

1) when I sync my device, is MusicBee merging the info on the phone and desktop instances of the files or replacing the phone with the desktop files?  I haven't done any formal tests on this, but was wondering about updating play count and ratings from phone use.

its copying new files to the device, overwriting files on the device with more recent ones (if any). MB doesnt store playcounts in a music file (I'm not aware of any player that does that but i could be wrong), so if the android has a playcount mechanism, the playcount shouldnt be lost. If you rated a song on the device, and then later made an update on your PC file, the next synch you would lose that rating on the device file

2) I connect my phone at home to sync, and I'd swear I see everything - music files and playlists - in the phone's \music directory as per the sync settings in preferences.  However, when I connect it to MusicBee at work to listen through my computer's speakers, all of the music files are greyed out, a bunch appear to be missing tag info like artist, and I (sometimes) see no playlists.  I was actually able to drop the grayed-out files to 'Now Playing' and play them.  In addition, if I go to the file in Windows Explorer I can see all the tag info is present.  Do I need to sync the phone to my work machine as well, or maybe add the drive to my library?

you shouldnt need to synch as work. Not sure what would be going on. Does the android appear as a device in MB on your work-pc or as another drive in the computer section?

...3) Is it possible to sync playlists from the device to the desktop?  The sync list selection in preferences only has what is on the desktop.  If I have a playlist on my phone I'd like to sync to desktop can I move that without re-creating it manually?

no good way i can think of

[jadjam]

Hi Steven, just started using MusicBee. Long time user of MediaMonkey, practically everything I wished MediaMonkey would change was actually incorporated or better in MusicBee by default! I'm sure people have said already a thousand times but congrats and thanks for this amazing player!

I'm using an android phone too and more than anything I'd love some implementation of playcount and rating sync. I've read on another post you don't have much time to make an Android app, disappointing but understandable. But would you consider some mechanism for identifying the tracks on a device when it connects and updating tags if they changed according to a timestamp or maybe a record of tag data at the time of sync to compare to or something? I can imagine that what I'm asking isn't easy but I've searched high and low for this setup for android phones, it simply doesn't exist. (I don't consider doubletwist a solution, it's not a solution for anything!) Android is becoming very popular, a few of the popular desktop media players have started making android apps and most have plans to incorporate playcount and rating sync. Filling this need for avid music collectors using the OS seems like an opportunity!

Thanks,
Jadon

[Steven]

what i can do is create an API that allows other developers of android players to create a plugin so MB is able to get playcount and ratings from the device. I would like to have a developer contact me with interest to do this before i do it on my side though.
but do you really want tags being updated 2-way? That sounds like a recipe for something to go badly wrong with your primary library and not something i would be prepared to attempt.

[Guegs]

what i can do is create an API that allows other developers of android players to create a plugin so MB is able to get playcount and ratings from the device. I would like to have a developer contact me with interest to do this before i do it on my side though.
but do you really want tags being updated 2-way? That sounds like a recipe for something to go badly wrong with your primary library and not something i would be prepared to attempt.

Can you limit it to just playcount/rating tags?

[jadjam]

what i can do is create an API that allows other developers of android players to create a plugin so MB is able to get playcount and ratings from the device. I would like to have a developer contact me with interest to do this before i do it on my side though.
but do you really want tags being updated 2-way? That sounds like a recipe for something to go badly wrong with your primary library and not something i would be prepared to attempt.

Thanks for the reply, that sounds like a fantastic idea. As someone replied I would only care about playcounts and ratings as I think these are the two tags that would allow for a decent sync relationship. I'll see if I can't spread the word around XDA and other places, hopefully they'll be some interest and if someone creates an app that gets notoriety for allowing this level of syncing, that can only be a good thing for attracting users to the desktop player!

[vanhoivanbinh]

any update for the two way syncing of playcount and rating? I have crazily need it now.

[phred]

any update for the two way syncing of playcount and rating? I have crazily need it now.

Obviously not.

Seven years ago Steven offered to create an API so someone could create a plugin to do two-way sync and no one replied. It's definitely not worth Steven's time to start something if no one is willing to finish it.

So if it's truly crazy important to you, I suggest you look for another music manager that can handle it.

[Varick]

what i can do is create an API that allows other developers of android players to create a plugin so MB is able to get playcount and ratings from the device. I would like to have a developer contact me with interest to do this before i do it on my side though.
but do you really want tags being updated 2-way? That sounds like a recipe for something to go badly wrong with your primary library and not something i would be prepared to attempt.

I get why Steven doesn't have time to make an mobile app, I barely have time to take a shit every day, let alone develop software.  However, my question isn't directly to Steven, but it does have to do with his statement above that I emboldened.

Why is that a recipe for something to go badly wrong?  I'm 3/4 of a technical moron, so I certainly couldn't even create a computer graphic logo of a bumblee, let alone and entire library for music on a computer.  But I still have to ask that question to those who DO know computers:  Why is that a recipe for something to go badly wrong?  Apple did it?  And they did an AMAZING job of it.  So why can't anyone else do it?

Please tell me where my logic is wrong here:

It's like someone looking at a Honda Civic, completely replicating (and improving) the engine, frame, drivetrain and body, but somehow not being able to figure out how to make the axles and the wheels so it can actually go somewhere.  Why can one company do it, but NO ONE ON THE ENTIRE PLANET can do it.  Again, I'm not talking about Steven specifically here, but what am I missing?

I do custom woodworking.  I can take a design, and completely replicate and often improve anything I see.  I can do it with different woods, different joinery techniques, different finishes, different tools, etc.  Some things are harder than others obviously, but it can still be done.  My brother owns a vitamin company.  He has taken other people's formulas, improved upon them, and then sold that product very successfully.  I do not comprehend why Apple is the ONLY GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD that have been able to do these things.  Again, please tell me where my logic is flawed and why my frustration is in vain.

V

[redwing]

I do not comprehend why Apple is the ONLY GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD that have been able to do these things.

Probably foobar and mediamonkey can do that too. What they, including Apple, have in common is they have both apps for the mobile and PC. But MB has only PC app and Steven may feel risky since he has no control over the mobile end and if something goes wrong it could ruin the user's database.

[phred]

I do not comprehend why Apple is the ONLY GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD that have been able to do these things.  Again, please tell me where my logic is flawed and why my frustration is in vain.

Apple and Honda have hundreds of thousands of employees and R&D budgets in the hundreds of millions (perhaps billions) of dollars.

[psychoadept]

I do not comprehend why Apple is the ONLY GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD that have been able to do these things.  Again, please tell me where my logic is flawed and why my frustration is in vain.

Apple and Honda have hundreds of thousands of employees and R&D budgets in the hundreds of millions (perhaps billions) of dollars.

Yes, budget, staff, time. Also, this is one of the advantages of Apple's proprietary system. Everything is predictable and they can make it work exactly the way they want to, by sacrificing the potential for flexibility and user choice.

[Varick]

Apple and Honda have hundreds of thousands of employees and R&D budgets in the hundreds of millions (perhaps billions) of dollars.

Yes, budget, staff, time. Also, this is one of the advantages of Apple's proprietary system. Everything is predictable and they can make it work exactly the way they want to, by sacrificing the potential for flexibility and user choice.

Exactly my point.  They have huge budgets, capital, and staff.  They've already done the hard work.  Code is code which is code and translates into code.  Can no one access Apple code on things?  ie:  Open it up, see how it works, replicate, improve, augment?  This isn't a challenge to anyone's knowledge or expertise or to insult.  It's more of a philosophical, but real and open question.  If you showed me pages of computer code, I wouldn't know whether to shit or wind my watch with it, but there are thousands of people who can read that "language" and understand it, rewrite it, and change it.  

I just don't understand why there are people who can write bugs, viruses, backdoor software and do it for kicks, but no one can open up an Apple box, and augment some things and create something which has a huge market demand for PC.  I just don't get it.

V

[frankz]

Exactly my point.  They have huge budgets, capital, and staff.  They've already done the hard work.  Code is code which is code and translates into code.  Can no one access Apple code on things?  ie:  Open it up, see how it works, replicate, improve, augment?  This isn't a challenge to anyone's knowledge or expertise or to insult.  It's more of a philosophical, but real and open question.  If you showed me pages of computer code, I wouldn't know whether to shit or wind my watch with it, but there are thousands of people who can read that "language" and understand it, rewrite it, and change it.  

I just don't understand why there are people who can write bugs, viruses, backdoor software and do it for kicks, but no one can open up an Apple box, and augment some things which has a huge market demand.  I just don't get it.

V

Because it's patented and that would be illegal theft of IP?

Dude, MediaMonkey does what you want.  You can keep tilting at windmills and being confrontational for no reason and to no ultimate effect (it's not going to happen no matter how much you argue it), or you can do what works.  

Using me as an example, this is functionality that I would greatly enjoy, and I did enjoy it when I used MediaMonkey. But, after using MusicBee, I realized that the desktop experience was much more important to me, and MusicBee offers a vastly superior desktop experience when compared to everything else out there.  So it's a trade off.  If that type of sync is your primary need and you're willing to sacrifice a lot of desktop experience to get it, then you have your solution elsewhere. If you enjoy the MB desktop experience and are willing to sacrifice the sync experience to get it, then you have your solution here.  Not trying to be severe, just adding a dose of reality.

Every once in a while I check to see if anyone has come up with a workaround, and find out they haven't, so I go back to being quietly frustrated in sync but massively happy on the desktop.  We all have to accept these things and move on eventually.

[psychoadept]

This is on my agenda to do someday, but I've found that while I'm taking the classes I don't really have time to USE the knowledge...