[WEBSITE v2] MusicBee website and forum redesign

[hiccup]

Thanks.  On further thought, I think just breaking out portable devices into its own forum would be the best approach.  That way mods (and visitors) don't have to think very hard about where portable device threads go, and a lot of the bugs reported aren't really MusicBee bugs anyway.

I see an additional board for portable devices was added.
In my opinion it would be more logical and consistent to have child boards for that under 'Questions' and 'Bug Reports'.
It would also help to keep the main page more (vertically) compact and as less cluttered as possible.

Having two boards means people looking for a section about portable devices are as likely to choose one as the other, and when moving threads we have to figure out which one they go in.  I really think it's easier to just have one.  It would probably be fine to have it as a sub forum of general discussion or questions.  Bug reports is a little too specific.  Like I said, the bugs reported are often not really musicbee bugs anyway. (Added: although given that it's almost at the bottom of the list, I don't think it's getting in the way of anything.)

There is something to be said for both.
Yet I have some unsubstantiated gut feeling that this was mostly done out of some irritation about many iPod/iPhone users asking questions and having issues.
I don't think the answer to that is to 'break' the clean and good structure that was in place, now resulting in having more than one place for 'Bugs', 'Questions' 'Tips and Tricks'.

[psychoadept]

Having two boards means people looking for a section about portable devices are as likely to choose one as the other, and when moving threads we have to figure out which one they go in.  I really think it's easier to just have one.  It would probably be fine to have it as a sub forum of general discussion or questions.  Bug reports is a little too specific.  Like I said, the bugs reported are often not really musicbee bugs anyway. (Added: although given that it's almost at the bottom of the list, I don't think it's getting in the way of anything.)

There is something to be said for both.
Yet I have some unsubstantiated gut feeling that this was mostly done out of some irritation about many iPod/iPhone users asking questions and having issues.
I don't think the answer to that is to 'break' the clean and good structure that was in place, now resulting in having more than one place for 'Bugs', 'Questions' 'Tips and Tricks'.

It's not out of irritation, but out of the fact that portable device questions and issues are very specific and distinct from other things that come up, and usually run along the same lines.  They are pretty much limited to how to get musicbee to talk to a particular device, how to transfer specific amounts of data, file formats and conversion (including playlists), two-way syncing, and errors which might or might not be MusicBee's fault.  Giving them their own section means that they will not get lost among other questions and reports, which is better for people seeking help with them as well as easier for us to maintain.

I didn't find the existing structure for them clean or sufficient, because there was the bug reports subforum which was clearly labeled for portable devices but clearly not meant for general questions and help, and many uncategorized threads in the general or questions forum.  Someone looking for an answer to a question similar to theirs would have to rely on the very limited forum search engine or maybe Google.

Anyway, if that doesn't persuade you I doubt I will be able to. 

[hiccup]

It's not out of irritation, but out of the fact that portable device questions and issues are very specific and distinct from other things that come up, and usually run along the same lines.  They are pretty much limited to how to get musicbee to talk to a particular device, how to transfer specific amounts of data, file formats and conversion (including playlists), two-way syncing, and errors which might or might not be MusicBee's fault.  Giving them their own section means that they will not get lost among other questions and reports, which is better for people seeking help with them as well as easier for us to maintain.

I didn't find the existing structure for them clean or sufficient, because there was the bug reports subforum which was clearly labeled for portable devices but clearly not meant for general questions and help, and many uncategorized threads in the general or questions forum.  Someone looking for an answer to a question similar to theirs would have to rely on the very limited forum search engine or maybe Google.

Anyway, if that doesn't persuade you I doubt I will be able to.  

It's just that I feel structure and hierarchy is the basis of logical navigation and making it possible to find stuff as easlily as possible.

I am not arguing the need for, and advantages of having portable devices issues and questions seperated and assembled in dedicated areas.
But if that results in breaking some logics in structure and hierarchy (as it is done now), that's not ideal.

With the latest change, now if somebody has a question about syncing a portable device, with the latest forum boards change, he/she should not post that under 'Questions' anymore?
That's not logical in my opinion. It is a question after all.

If somebody experiences an actual and verifiable bug in reference to an external device, with the latest forum boards change, he/she should not post that under 'Bugs' anymore?
That's not logical in my opinion. It is a bug after all.

Repeat for 'tips& tricks'.

The only sensible and correct solution in my opinion would be to have childboards for 'Portable Devices' under 'Questions', 'Bugs' and 'Tips & Tricks'.

And as a sidenote and follow-up on this line of thought, it would be very useful if a member with experience with iPods etc. could create a 'sticky topic' under Tips&Tricks> Portable Devices called something like "syncing with Apple devices".
A shortcut to that topic would probably be a hit, and save a lot of typing in answering questions on this matter. ;-)

[phred]

And as a sidenote and follow-up on this line of thought, it would be very useful if a member with experience with iPods etc. could create a 'sticky topic' under Tips&Tricks> Portable Devices called something like "syncing with Apple devices".
A shortcut to that topic would probably be a hit, and save a lot of typing in answering questions on this matter. ;-)

There are two threads (that I'm familiar with and there may be others) about syncing to iDevices. One by me and one by redwing. "How to sync with iTunes" and "How to sync without iTunes." I could make both of those sticky if you think it will help.

[hiccup]

There are two threads (that I'm familiar with and there may be others) about syncing to iDevices. One by me and one by redwing. "How to sync with iTunes" and "How to sync without iTunes." I could make both of those sticky if you think it will help.

I am no expert on this (and have little personal interest on the matter either t.b.h.), but I know Phred and Boroda also have given lots of very good and useful info/explanations/answers on Apple issues.
Wouldn't it be great if you and them would join all that knowledge in just one nuclear sticky post in 'Questions> Syncing Apple devices?


edit,
I wrongly assumed I was responding to a Psycho post, but I now see it was from mr. Phred himself.
So my reply probably looks a bit confusing, but I do support the gist of it ;-)

[phred]

I have made sticky the two threads referenced above.

[boroda]

pred, phsychoadtept and hiccup, looking at your discussion about devices and remembering Steven's words that he assumes that devices child board under "bug reports" board may be excessive, i'm going to believe that any separate devices board/child boards would be either not logical or too sophisticated, maybe actually it would be better to combine all devices board(s) with 'generic' boards?

[boroda]

AvikB, what does mean string "addon_15" ("by", line 500)? "by" can be translated in several ways, i need to know the context.

I'm no AvikB, but I am sure it is in the context of "plugin 'Fantastic' by Boroda".
Similar to "Pictures at an Exhibition' by Modest Mussorgsky".

yes, i supposed the same, but the problem is that "by" usually shouldn't be translated to russian at all, couple of other words in a sentence should be changed, but "by" just skipped. sometimes its not acceptable (if sentence is not static). in this case i use russian "from author" or "from developer", etc, but i must use some exact word after "from".

[hiccup]

yes, i supposed the same, but the problem is that "by" usually shouldn't be translated to russian at all, couple of other words in a sentence should be changed, but "by" just skipped. sometimes its not acceptable (if sentence is not static). in this case i use russian "from author" or "from developer", etc, but i must use some exact word after "from".

I'm pretty sure I don't exactly understand this, but would it perhaps be an option to not translate 'by' at all, and just have a space or a dash there?

[boroda]

AvikB, i think you've forgotten to mention VB .NET in string "api_desc" (line 680).

[AvikB]

AvikB, what does mean string "addon_15" ("by", line 500)? "by" can be translated in several ways, i need to know the context.

the same for string "search" ("Search ", line 531).

"addon_15" is used here for add-ons author.


Search is used on the add-on page on the searchbox placeholder.

[AvikB]

yes, i supposed the same, but the problem is that "by" usually shouldn't be translated to russian at all, couple of other words in a sentence should be changed, but "by" just skipped. sometimes its not acceptable (if sentence is not static). in this case i use russian "from author" or "from developer", etc, but i must use some exact word after "from".

I'm pretty sure I don't exactly understand this, but would it perhaps be an option to not translate 'by' at all, and just have a space or a dash there?

yes you can leave any word untranslated. Just make sure you remove that line all together. Eg:

Say you are translating the following:

Code

$lang['addon_9'] = 'Author';
$lang['addon_10'] = 'Name';
$lang['addon_11'] = 'Category';
$lang['addon_15'] = 'by';
$lang['addon_16'] = 'Updated on';
$lang['addon_17'] = 'Published on';
$lang['addon_36'] = 'Supports Minimum';

and you wan't to leave the following as it is. Just remove that line.

Code

$lang['addon_15'] = 'by';

The final product should look like:

Code

$lang['addon_9'] = 'Author';
$lang['addon_10'] = 'Name';
$lang['addon_11'] = 'Category';
/** $lang['addon_15'] was not translated so removed **/
$lang['addon_16'] = 'Updated on';
$lang['addon_17'] = 'Published on';
$lang['addon_36'] = 'Supports Minimum';

Of-course the comment was not a requirement, it is just there for this example. Remove any comment or leave them, it is upto you.

[AvikB]

AvikB, i think you've forgotten to mention VB .NET in string "api_desc" (line 680).

thanks. will be updated in the next minor release.

[AvikB]

does anyone know a way to hint to the google search engine that there are localised versions for a page and what the supported localisation languages are ie. so when people google from a particular country, the localised version is shown in the search results edit: found this: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/182192?hl=en @AvikB, when you have time i suggest you have a look as it does provide some recommendations

thanks Steven. I think in the next major release i will provide a url structure like:

Code

http://www.getmusicbee.com/rus/

Edit:

Ok, after reviewing some possibilities, and some code reviewing. the only page that are possible to fully localize is the home page and the download page and also the dashboard which is excluded for reasons.
Any other page can be partially localized since they have user generated content and to fully localize them the user need to provide translation of their content which is completely out of topic.

The dashboard is out of topic as it can not be indexed by google because it is login protected.
the help page, release note page, api page are also user generated thus can not be localized.

So the only page that will get this kind of pretty url is the home page and download page.

Code

http://www.getmusicbee.com/rus/
http://www.getmusicbee.com/rus/downloads

other page will follow the normal url structure, like:

http://www.getmusicbee.com/addons/
http://www.getmusicbee.com/forum/

and so on

ofc when the user visits the url http://www.getmusicbee.com/rus/ they will get the whole site partially or fully localized in russian.
that means when a user visits http://www.getmusicbee.com/rus/ and after that he decides to visit http://www.getmusicbee.com/addons/
he will get a russian version of that page. of course he can also switch to english version from the bottom of the page.


It is a bit more complicated than this simplified version, but rest assure.
I have also found a way (thanks to the article Steven provided) for google to index the multilanguage website.
a simple html tag is sufficient.

[boroda]

AvikB, i'm not sure if its a bug or not, but test version of new forum was supporting cyrillics fine. but this forum just converts all cyrillic letters to question marks on saving post like previous version of the forum. though preview shows cyrillic letters. if i click "modify" button, then in post editor i see '?' instead of russian letters.