Win10 Style [Concepts] [Discussion]

[Steven]

- using ALL CAPS is a bad idea (maybe it has its use on tiny displays - not here)

i plan to make this a skin setting as i think its needed for the type of skin endeavour1934 created where everything blends in

[Steven]

i have done some paintbrush hacking of the existing musicbee default skin to give everyone a better idea how i have interpreted the suggestions.
edit:
i have hacked in some of Mikebo's Calcium skin elements which i think look much better

- the menu bar could optionally be displayed in the caption bar. By default it would be accessible via the "MusicBee v" button
- ALL CAPS for the tab headers would be set by the skin eg. its more appropriate for skins like endeavour1934's
- the tabs bar replaces the left navigator but its up to you what items that were in the left navigator you want to add
- Podcasts and Inbox as tab headers would include the count in the tab header
- You would be able to choose and add a library filter to the tabs bar
- If you add the same item more than once eg. Playlists, then the name of the active playlist would be included in the tabs header
- the tabs bar/ icons and search box could be docked at the top for space constained screens
- probably the current vertical dock for the tabs bar would not be supported (nor the various other options you have today) - basically it will span the entire application window
- clicking on an active tab (Music in the screenshot) or on the new tab button would popup the equivalent of today's left navigator where you could select which node becomes active in the tab. See http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=14941.msg89246#msg89246 for something how the popup would look
- clicking the Playlists would populate the left panel with the playlists (and also the Music and Inbox nodes so its easy to drag files from the library into a playlist). Similarily the Computer tab would show all the drives/folders in the left panel
- the status bar is missing from the screenshot but it would be optionally enabled for when the player is down the bottom as i appreciate it will be important to some people. It would always show if the player was docked at the top
- The summary information from the current status bar is in the left panel for the top "All" item
- the column browser panel could be optionally enabled and display in the same ways as now
- the left panel could also display other categories such as genres, albums, etc, the column browsers vertically stacked and also the library explorer and optionally an artist or album picture on the bottom left
- the left panel could also be hidden if you just wanted to use the column browsers horizontally instead
- i am not sure whether MB would still support docking the Now Playing list in the left panel or bottom of the main panel
- the player panel could also be docked at the top and support the current options with regards to wavebar and visualiser. I have not yet thought about how the player docked in the right sidebar would work
- the main panel would still support the same views as now and possible an artist explorer but i havent thought about that yet
- for the track details view I anticipate making the rows at least a couple of pixels higher than the screenshot, except perhaps for space constrained screens where each row will be closer
- the right panel would still support pretty much the same options as today, except "Playing Tracks v" would toggle between "Playing Album v" (a new view that only shows the playing album with a small picture and some album info)) and "Selected Tracks v" where the now playing list would show the selected files and the rest of the panel based on those selected tracks
- the right panel could be hidden
- any text with the drop-down arrow obviously shows a popup of the choices avalable. And clicking the text itself would toggle the through the options without the popup showing

[Steven]

picture updated with some of Mikebo's calcium skin elements

[Bee-liever]

Having everything in the tabs would require a re-think on how the tabs are displayed so you don't end up with a truncated useless mess when a lot of tabs are used



A few suggestions:

• remove the tabs attachment to the panel
• move the 'add tab' button to the left
• only a set number of tabs appear depending on available area - extra tabs can be accessed by '>' arrow
• as this seems to be also about preparing for Windows10, the most recent builds of the Win10 TP have the app/page name in the center of the panel. Freeing the menu bar from association with the MusicBee title by adding a separate icon would seem to make sense.

[psychoadept]

I'm not a fan of the disconnected "button" tabs, but if you don't want an attached tab maybe there could be another way to indicate which is "active", like making it bold or underlined.

For the problem of having too many open, perhaps a scrolling tabs bar?

[endeavour1934]

• as this seems to be also about preparing for Windows10, the most recent builds of the Win10 TP have the app/page name in the center of the panel. Freeing the menu bar from association with the MusicBee title by adding a separate icon would seem to make sense.

Latest build (9926) & screenshots of future builds have the app title aligned to the left.

And about the bar having a lot of tabs open:
-There could be an option that makes tabs switch to "icon only" mode instead of truncating names.
-Scrolling could work, it is the most popular option on browsers.
-The ">" arrow with hidden tabs is also a good idea. But instead of hiding them after a specified number, maybe it could show up tabs until 70% (for example) of the bar is filled, which would work better for big displays. Also, what happens when you click the ">" button? move them? show another set of tabs? Show a drop-down menu with the rest of the tabs?

I like the new changes. Feels like it's easier to use, maybe because people is more used to the whole "tabs" interface.
The drop downs with the down arrow also feel more intuitive, because it makes easier (and faster) to find where to change the contents of a specific panel :D

PS: Maybe Steven should move this topic to another subforum :P

[Bee-liever]

Latest build (9926) & screenshots of future builds have the app title aligned to the left.

Yes.  I didn't have the latest build in front of me, but I see where they have "made the title bars for both desktop and modern apps title bars feel more harmonious".  They did move from center to left depending on what was open, I assumed (wrongly) that MS was moving them all to the center.

And about the bar having a lot of tabs open:
-There could be an option that makes tabs switch to "icon only" mode instead of truncating names.

That would defeat the purpose of having the Inbox and Podcast counters in the tab

-Scrolling could work, it is the most popular option on browsers.
-The ">" arrow with hidden tabs is also a good idea. But instead of hiding them after a specified number, maybe it could show up tabs until 70% (for example) of the bar is filled, which would work better for big displays.

That's what I was suggesting with:

• only a set number of tabs appear depending on available area - extra tabs can be accessed by '>' arrow

The bar would fill with tabs until a % of available space (depending on screen size) was used.
Guess it wasn't too well explained  :)

Also, what happens when you click the ">" button? move them? show another set of tabs? Show a drop-down menu with the rest of the tabs?

I thought I'd leave that for Steven to decide - though scrolling them would be my preference.

I'm not a fan of the disconnected "button" tabs

I'm not a fan of losing the LH navigation panel  :D
Just following the flat UI design trends, which is either to encapsulate the selection (ie; the "button" look) or Bold the text

[redwing]

Overall I like Steven's mockup. It would make MB looking much simple without clutter especially on the top area.

- If the selected node becomes an open tab, then it means MB would no longer support multi-tab feature. You can always have only a single tab open and can't have multiple tabs open for the same node. It wouldn't matter much to me, but don't know how everyone else feels about it.

- the right panel would still support pretty much the same options as today, except "Playing Tracks v" would toggle between "Playing Album v" (a new view that only shows the playing album with a small picture and some album info)) and "Selected Tracks v" where the now playing list would show the selected files and the rest of the panel based on those selected tracks

Not sure about this. Then if I choose "Selected Tracks v", can't I see now playing list? Why does that have to affect the content of now playing list instead of track info panel?

-There could be an option that makes tabs switch to "icon only" mode instead of truncating names.

+1
I would prefer icons to full name of nodes (Inbox and podcast node could display counter next to the icon) since I like to show all toolbar buttons on the right without hiding them under a button. Optionally, only active tab header could be spelled out with all inactive nodes as icons with mouse-over tooltip. Also allow to add a custom icon to library filters.

[Steven]

• remove the tabs attachment to the panel

if implemented, i think that would be a skin setting as it might suit some styles of skin

- If the selected node becomes an open tab, then it means MB would no longer support multi-tab feature. You can always have only a single tab open and can't have multiple tabs open for the same node. It wouldn't matter much to me, but don't know how everyone else feels about it.

no, it would still allow Playlists or other categories to be added multiple times. I was thinking of changing the tab header to the active playlist once multiple Playlist tabs were added but perhaps it can do it even for one Playlists tab

On reflection about the proposal i think the big plus is it gives the application a simplier and easier to use feeling and I think thats important to many people. And some things are much more obvious to new users (eg. the number of people who cant find the panel layout button to change the layout is surprising to me, where as now its quite obvious what the current layout is and where to change it)
However i do see it being slightly worse for people who were navigating the left navigator nodes frequently on an adhoc basis. Also for users who occasionally visit a node on an adhoc basis it now requires an extra action ie. click the active tab header so the node selector popup appears.
It perhaps makes some of the lesser used categories (such as the items in the Services node a little less discoverable than before).
And it takes a bit more effort to set up because you have to add the tabs you are interested in, although i will probably default to a standard set of tabs on first usage.
On balance i am still definitely for these set of changes

[Bee-liever]

Whatever the outcome, I hope mikebo's suggestion for hiding the scrollbars also gets implemented (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=14777.msg88115#msg88115)

[Alumni]

i will probably default to a standard set of tabs on first usage.

I have some suggestions for the default tabs:

"Albums" - display albums in artwork view
"Artists" - display albums grouped by album artist
"Tracks" - display songs in track detail view
"Playlists" - display playlists with left sidebar enabled

[Steven]

For devices, I would probably do something along the lines of iTunes where an icon appears for the device and when you mouse over the icon you see the device name which would be needed when multiple devices are detected. On clicking the device icon you would see the same as the current 2.5 device summary panel + some extra tabs so you can see the device music library files, podcasts, etc.
-------

I am looking at the Artist Explorer (2nd screenshot in the proposal). I like all the elements it shows and i would also add in something
that hooks into the Xbox Music plugin to allow a user to browse albums or tracks from the artist that they dont have in their library (see the Music Explorer in the current MB version and click on an artist to see what i mean)

I imagine one way to implement it would be to have a new view "Artist v" thats included in the "Tracks v", "Album and Tracks v", "Albums v" button but only available in the context when an artist is selected in the left panel and perhaps available as a right click option in various places an artist is in context eg. right clicking on an artist in the "Tracks" view.
But @endeavour1934, its not clear to me what you are suggesting. Others please add anything to this aspect

for the 3rd screenshot, the now playing panel. I think i would add a row at the top (where Lyrics v is) with a list of tabs - something like
"Details" (which would be otherwise the same as the 3rd screenshot), "Wikipedia", "You Tube", any installed plugins, etc. I guess the existing "Photos" tab doesnt really fit into this but no big loss in my view. A new "Explore" tab would be along the lines of the 2nd screenshot

[redwing]

I imagine one way to implement it would be to have a new view "Artist v" thats included in the "Tracks v", "Album and Tracks v", "Albums v" button but only available in the context when an artist is selected in the left panel and perhaps available as a right click option in various places an artist is in context eg. right clicking on an artist in the "Tracks" view.

I'd prefer that artist view has its own default view: current artwork view grouped by album artist with round artist pictures. Then if you click on any artist picture, you get the suggested artist view instead of the current album list panel below the picture.  If you click on "back" button, you're returned to the artist picture list view again.
Also the view could be accessed via a context menu from anywhere as you suggested.

[endeavour1934]

I am looking at the Artist Explorer (2nd screenshot in the proposal). I like all the elements it shows and i would also add in something
that hooks into the Xbox Music plugin to allow a user to browse albums or tracks from the artist that they dont have in their library (see the Music Explorer in the current MB version and click on an artist to see what i mean)

in any of the shots you could replace the "store" links with "XBox Music".

[Pingaware]

I haven't properly read the whole thread through yet (I will, but currently short on time), but here are my thoughts regarding the proposals.

I was initially sceptical about losing the left navigator panel. Then I thought about my use habits and realised that I actually more or less have the new layout currently implemented - I have Inbox, three different filters and Auto-DJ all constantly pinned open in separate tabs.

Things I would miss that I haven't seen mentioned in my topic skim:
- The ability to quickly change library (I do this relatively frequently and don't want to have to dive into menus to do it if possible). Could be a perfect candidate for a custom toolbar button.
- The vertical A to Z bar. I'm assuming this will still be an option, I just wanted to mention that I really strongly prefer it there.
- The option to pin tabs and lock them to a specific filter/inbox/playlist.

Things I would miss that I have seen mentioned:
- The column browser! I use this constantly with some specific virtual tags I have set up just for it. I really don't want that to be completely removed.
- The status bar. I seem to remember Steven saying this could be left in with an option - that's definitely something I would want.

I also saw something about playlists (which are the one thing I'd miss from the left navigator), but don't have time now to go back and find it. So long as I can still easily switch between playlists and my library from within a tab, I have no problems there.

I'll read through the thread properly tonight and update with my further thoughts.