Performance (?) Issues: New PC vs Updating BIOS, Drivers, etc.

[BoringName]

Copying this over from the other thread again. can we please report issues in this thread and not the other one so I don't have to monitor multiple threads. I was waiting for phred to reply on whether 2.4.1 worked and just noticed the post in the other thread.....

Using VUMeter 2.4.1 and the updated versions of hiccup's Lovebird skins with MB 3.6.9083 P...
Lovebird Phred on the Lookout version loads between four and seven seconds when switching to it from another skin. With a Lovebird skin loaded and attempting to load another skin, I got this every time...

After a reboot all skins are loading. The ones that yesterday were loading "instantaneously" are now taking a little longer - less than four seconds. The two Lovebirds now load in between four and seven. Even from a restart of MB.

Just so I'm up to speed. The problem with "This background worker is currently busy" hasn't happened since you restarted? This error would occur if you try and load a skin before the previous selected skin has finished loading. I wanted to make sure it worked before I wasted time fine tuning the code on it.

Can you list an example of a skin that was loading instantaneously but now taking longer.

So the only issue I need to worry about now is the intermittent exception error when changing skins?

It would be good to know if the skin type is a factor. ie) does it occur when switching to a foobar skin, aimp skin or both. The error indicates it's from a foobar skin.

edit: Interestingly I copied a portable version of musicbee to a PC I use for encoding video so my main PC doesn't get bogged down. It's a piece of crap motherboard from aliexpress running a 10 year old Xeon processor. It had the same issue you did with 2.4.0 not loading anything. 2.4.1 works ok.

I haven't been able to trigger the exception error though.

Also you might want to update the bios on your PC if you haven't already. My encoding PC loads the new lovebird skin in 2 seconds and that's while it's flat out encoding something at the same time. What type of hard drive do you have?

[phred]

Copying this over from the other thread again. can we please report issues in this thread and not the other one so I don't have to monitor multiple threads. I was waiting for phred to reply on whether 2.4.1 worked and just noticed the post in the other thread.....

Sorry about that. All my issues with the plugin itself will be posted here.

Just so I'm up to speed. The problem with "This background worker is currently busy" hasn't happened since you restarted? This error would occur if you try and load a skin before the previous selected skin has finished loading. I wanted to make sure it worked before I wasted time fine tuning the code on it.

I don't want you wasting your time either. Which is why I didn't reply right away. I've spent the past hour and a half making notes and trying skins and timing the load times on both 2.3.1 and 2.4.1.

The "background busy" message appears when I attempt to load another skin while the "skin loading" message appears. Which makes sense.

Can you list an example of a skin that was loading instantaneously but now taking longer.

- All of the SPL Mk2 skins load within a second on 2.3.1. They can take anywhere from seven to fifteen on 2.4.1.
- The three DejaVU Compact Fischer's Lovebird skins load in five to second seconds on 2.3.1. They take between fifteen and thirty on 2.4.1.
- My own modded version of SPL Mk2 Phred on the Lookout loads faster than anything else and it doesn't matter if I'm using 2.3.1 or 2.4.1. For your reference, it's available here: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=41767.msg227739#msg227739. Note that this skin has a skin.ini file and three .pngs. All the other skins I'm testing with consist of a .bin and an .ini file. Also note (in case it helps) that my modded SPL Mk2 is in the skins directory as a ZIP file. All the others are in the directory as .bin/.ini files.

So the only issue I need to worry about now is the intermittent exception error when changing skins?

I haven't seen this since I first reported it.

It would be good to know if the skin type is a factor. ie) does it occur when switching to a foobar skin, aimp skin or both. The error indicates it's from a foobar skin.

To be honest, I don't know the difference between them. My own modded version is a ZIP with three .pngs and a skin.ini. Is that an aimp skin? The other .bin/.ini skins are then probably foobar, because those are the ones with excessive load times.

edit: Interestingly I copied a portable version of musicbee to a PC I use for encoding video so my main PC doesn't get bogged down. It's a piece of crap motherboard from aliexpress running a 10 year old Xeon processor. It had the same issue you did with 2.4.0 not loading anything. 2.4.1 works ok.

I must be the only one who has load time issues with 2.4.1. Either that or you, sveakul, hiccup and me are the only ones using the plugin. Which would be shame.

I haven't been able to trigger the exception error though.

As stated above, it has not appeared since the day I reported it. So cross it off your list.

Also you might want to update the bios on your PC if you haven't already. My encoding PC loads the new lovebird skin in 2 seconds and that's while it's flat out encoding something at the same time. What type of hard drive do you have?

I'm running SSDs in the PC. I've always been hesitant to update the BIOS because I'm afraid of bricking the machine. I did it once many, many years ago on a different PC and and it went off the rails. Even a local repair shop couldn't get it going again. Besides, if everything else on the PC is working as expected, as is VUMeter plugin on 2.3.1, how would the BIOS come into play? I'd sooner add more RAM but when MB is playing music and I'm loading VUMeter skins, I've got almost 10gb free from my 16gb total. So I don't think that's going to help.

I've tried to be as detailed as my testing would permit. I hope this helps, but feel free to poke me further with more questions/suggestions. Also note, that I'm happy to keep using 2.3.1.

[sveakul]

To be honest, I don't know the difference between them. My own modded version is a ZIP with three .pngs and a skin.ini. Is that an aimp skin? The other .bin/.ini skins are then probably foobar, because those are the ones with excessive load times.

I've tried to be as detailed as my testing would permit. I hope this helps, but feel free to poke me further with more questions/suggestions. Also note, that I'm happy to keep using 2.3.1.

Phred--sorry to hear you are still having problems.
As far as skin differences, "AIMP Analog" skins consist of a "skin.ini" file and png's inside the zip;  "AIMP LVU" skins have a file named "settings.ini" and png's inside the zip.  AIMP LVU skins tend to exclusively feature LEDs, while AIMP Analog skins are mostly needle-based but can include LEDs.

Finally, the Foobar BIN skin features at least one BIN file (seems like most have two), all of which cannot be played from inside zip files like the other two formats but must be put directly into the skins folder.  The BIN file contains both the images and the settings inside it.  Thanks to hiccup there is now a subset of the Foobar BIN format that contains a separate *.ini file with the BINs that contains the settings fine-tuned to that skin.  When present, the MusicBee plugin takes settings for that BIN directly from the *.ini if the "Use Skin Defaults" option is checked.  Otherwise (and in Foobar) the *.ini file is ignored.  BIN meters can be needle based or contain LEDs.

FWIW I never had any problems with BIOS updates which I perform as new versions become available.  The key is, be sure no other application is running when you begin, and when you do begin just walk away from the thing until it completely finishes.  Often the PC itself will be shutdown as part of the process then started again seconds later, not just "restart," which can be a little scary.  Avoid the urge to touch ANY key or the mouse until you are automatically returned to your login screen (when the update process starts, you may be asked to hit an "OK" button which do).  And cross your fingers that the power does not go out during the process--avoidable by having  the PC on a UPS with the proper kind of sine wave for your power supply type.

Edit:  One of the main reasons for updating a BIOS is to improve or allow performance with new HW components.  When did you add SSDs, or did your PC come with them?  Was the BIOS ever updated afterwards?

[BoringName]

- All of the SPL Mk2 skins load within a second on 2.3.1. They can take anywhere from seven to fifteen on 2.4.1.

Those load times are pretty nuts even for an older machine. I really doubt I will be able to solve this issue because I'm confident it's a hardware problem specific to you. Mainly based on the fact no one else has mentioned it and you have reported strange behaviour with your PC before. Considering you reloaded the OS it points to something wrong with the hardware. I don't really want to go back to the old method because it's not great having the UI lock up during loading. Your machine seems to have an issue with multiple threads.

You could ask Hiccup nicely to release those skins with LZMA compression instead of BZIP2, I believe that would help a lot.

To be honest, I don't know the difference between them. My own modded version is a ZIP with three .pngs and a skin.ini. Is that an aimp skin? The other .bin/.ini skins are then probably foobar, because those are the ones with excessive load times.

AIMP are zip files with a skin.ini file inside
LVU are zip files with a settings.ini file inside.
Foobar are BIN files. The slowness issue mainly seems to stem from decompressing them.

One other option if you have 7-zip installed. Right click the bin file and select 7-zip->Extract Here. This will extract the contents of the bin file so they are no longer compressed. The file it creates will not have an extension so you need to add ".bin" back to the end of the file and change the name so it doesn't conflict with the original bin file. eg) SPL Mk2 - Void Red.bin, SPL Mk2 - Void Red extracted.bin

SPL Mk2 - Void Red extracted.bin should load substantially faster. But keep in mind this will use up a bit more hard disk space. Most skins are pretty small but the lovebird skins are around 165mb uncompressed.

I must be the only one who has load time issues with 2.4.1. Either that or you, sveakul, hiccup and me are the only ones using the plugin. Which would be shame.

Based on the downloads there is around 40 people that grab each update as it's released and another 40 that grab it over the next few weeks. Some of those are probably scrapers because the links are public. One of the older versions has nearly 200 downloads.

Besides, if everything else on the PC is working as expected, as is VUMeter plugin on 2.3.1, how would the BIOS come into play? I'd sooner add more RAM but when MB is playing music and I'm loading VUMeter skins, I've got almost 10gb free from my 16gb total. So I don't think that's going to help.

It's probably not working as well as it could be. At the very least you should check what version your on now and look up the motherboard vendor website and check the release notes on any BIOS updates you haven't installed. See if they mention anything that could explain the issues you are having. If you list your motherboard details I can take a look.

Updating bios is generally safe, power cuts during the update or using the wrong bios file are usually the biggest problems. I've updated a lot and the only time I bricked one was using the wrong file. It was on my encoding machine I mentioned earlier, their website was terrible so that's excuse I'm going with for using the wrong file. I re-flashed it with a CH341A tool. Stupid thing wouldn't work with the chip on the motherboard so I had to de-solder off the board first and solder it back on.... fun times.

Probably not distilling much confidence in you with that story.... anyway all the mainstream brands make it easier to select the right file and usually have a check in place so it won't let you use the wrong file. My problem was buying something off aliexpress but I knew what I was getting myself into.

[phred]

Phred--sorry to hear you are still having problems.

Thanks sveakul for explaining the skin differences. It's clearer now. Hiccup's skins all contain bin and ini files so they're Foobar skins. My modded skin is AIMP Analog since it's got the skin.ini and three .pngs.

FWIW I never had any problems with BIOS updates which I perform as new versions become available.  The key is, be sure no other application is running when you begin, and when you do begin just walk away from the thing until it completely finishes.

Yes, I know to have no apps running and to walk away and don't look back. If I remember correctly I booted into Windows Safe Mode to run the update.

Edit:  One of the main reasons for updating a BIOS is to improve or allow performance with new HW components.  When did you add SSDs, or did your PC come with them?  Was the BIOS ever updated afterwards?

Oh, I understand the reasons for a BIOS update, but I've never had to do it before and I've added lots of hardware to my various PCs in the past. Perhaps my past is catching up to me. The SSDs were added in January 2021. They are name-brand (Crucial/Micron) 1tb drives. Crucial was having a post-holiday sale and I got two of them for about $175. And no, the BIOS was never updated after installing them.

I will poke around and see what's recommended for my BIOS updates and perhaps get up the nerve to pull the trigger.

[phred]

I don't really want to go back to the old method because it's not great having the UI lock up during loading. Your machine seems to have an issue with multiple threads.

There is no need for you to revert to the old method. (Read on.)

You could ask Hiccup nicely to release those skins with LZMA compression instead of BZIP2, I believe that would help a lot.

No, I won't ask hiccup to do that. He's done enough for me. Perhaps if others were experiencing the same as me, I'd ask, but it's only me. I'd rather see him put his time into more VU skins.

AIMP are zip files with a skin.ini file inside
LVU are zip files with a settings.ini file inside.
Foobar are BIN files. The slowness issue mainly seems to stem from decompressing them.

Thanks. That's pretty much what sveakul said.

One other option if you have 7-zip installed. Right click the bin file and select 7-zip->Extract Here.

I just tested this on DejaVU Compact LED - Fischer's Lovebird (Phred on the Lookout edition).bin. 1.03mb compressed and 142.66 extracted. That's some compression. Free space on the drive is not an issue. This skin has always been a slow loader. But uncompressed it loads much faster - perhaps a second - maybe two. Tomorrow I will extract all the .bin skins are confirm they're loading faster with 2.4.1. And if that's the case, I will put this to rest.

If you list your motherboard details I can take a look.

That's greatly appreciated. No need to do this immediately. The motherboard is an Asus Prime B250M-C with an Intel B250 (Kaby Lake) chipset. The BIOS is AMD v0305 (November 8, 2016) so it is indeed old and probably outdated.

Probably not distilling much confidence in you with that story.... anyway all the mainstream brands make it easier to select the right file and usually have a check in place so it won't let you use the wrong file.

Sveakul has me partially convinced and you were doing the same until that story. No, not really. I'm will to attempt it once I get up the courage. And have some adult beverages on standby.

[BoringName]

That's greatly appreciated. No need to do this immediately. The motherboard is an Asus Prime B250M-C with an Intel B250 (Kaby Lake) chipset. The BIOS is AMD v0305 (November 8, 2016) so it is indeed old and probably outdated.

Umm... yeah. The website only goes back to 0404. There has been 18 updates since then with quite a few referencing Improved system stability and compatibility.

The most recent (2001) was 2021 to add support for windows 11 but that's still listed as a beta so maybe go the version before that one.
Here is the main list primeB250M-C Support
Link for the release before the beta version - 1608
Link for the manual to update the bios - BIOS Update Manual

Important
You should read this first about the MEupdate tool that's also listed on the ASUS site - intel-me-and-bios-updates-general-advice

It says this -
"You should always update Intel's Windows drivers (MEI drivers) and ME firmware BEFORE updating the BIOS".

Sorry I didn't post that originally, I've never had to deal with intel ME before so I had to do some reading first.

[sveakul]

Hi phred,

"That's greatly appreciated. No need to do this immediately. The motherboard is an Asus Prime B250M-C with an Intel B250 (Kaby Lake) chipset. The BIOS is AMD v0305 (November 8, 2016) so it is indeed old and probably outdated."

Yes, DANGEROUSLY outdated (considering the BIOS security hacks out there).  Do apply the BIOS update that BoringName found for you, also the chipset update (https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/prime%20b250m-c/helpdesk_download/).

Frankly, I would definitely consider just buying a new PC--Dell has some nice holiday deals.

[hiccup]

my 2 cents:

1.
Personally I would be a little bit surprised if a bios update alone would solve these strange issues.
But I would for sure update such an old bios anyway.

2.
Then don't forget to go into the bios menu, and go through all available options to see if you may want or need to tweak some things.

3.
After that my suggestion would be to do a clean Windows 10 install, so that it will be using information that the new bios provides to the OS when it is installing itself.

4.
Install Intel's Chipset INF Utility

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/19347/chipset-inf-utility.html

5.
Then install Intel's Management Engine Drivers

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/682431/intel-management-engine-drivers-for-windows-10-and-windows-11.html?wapkw=mei

(they are more recent than the versions that Asus has on their website. It's not uncommon that at a certain point in time mobo manufacturors stop updating the downloads for their motherboards)


Optional:

6.
Check if there are firmware updates for your SSDs that may solve known issues:
https://eu.crucial.com/support/ssd-support

7.
find and update drivers for your graphics, audio and possibly other devices.
(optional because Windows 10 is doing a pretty good job in finding the best and most stable drivers automatically)

8.
The support page for your motherboard also offers an 'Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver'
I don't think that should be used anymore since I recall that Windows 10 already has a more recent version these days.

Important
You should read this first about the MEupdate tool that's also listed on the ASUS site - intel-me-and-bios-updates-general-advice
It says this -
"You should always update Intel's Windows drivers (MEI drivers) and ME firmware BEFORE updating the BIOS".

Sorry I didn't post that originally, I've never had to deal with intel ME before so I had to do some reading first.

That surprises me a little bit.
I was always convinced that first the bios should be updated, and after that any possible system drivers/firmware.
That advise seems to come from an individual, and may pertain to the motherboard and drivers described there?
I myself would be doing some more research, and possibly find recommendations by Asus or Intel before I would change the order I am suggesting above.

PS
@Phred, would it be an idea to split this topic into a new one?

---

edit
I may be confusing Intel's Management Engine Drivers and Asus's MEUpdateTool.
Perhaps the latter should be installed first, then update the bios, and then install Intel's ME drivers?

The wisest thing to do before proceeding is probably to post this question on a forum that is about Asus motherboards.
The people over there will probably be able to give you the best advice for this situation/motherboard.

[boroda]

8.
The support page for your motherboard also offers an 'Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver'
I don't think that should be used anymore since I recall that Windows 10 already has a more recent version these days.

i wouldn't install these drivers and wouldn't use this technology at all. it uses IDE protocol rather than modern AHCI, which is MUCH faster.

[phred]

i wouldn't install these drivers and wouldn't use this technology at all. it uses IDE protocol rather than modern AHCI, which is MUCH faster.

Thanks boroda. Thanks for confirming what hiccup said.

[BoringName]

Another concern is sometimes you shouldn't just jump from a really old bios to a new one. Usually there will be at least one bios in between that you should update to first. Unfortunately I can't see any notes for this board on the asus site specifying that for any of the bios.

Anyway, this is what I would do.

1. Make sure you have a backup of anything important and save a system restore.
2. Make sure you have a recovery USB just in case you need to use the system restore and can't get into safe mode.
3. Download the manual and lookup where the clear CMOS jumper is in case it's required- PRIME_B250M-C/E13585_PRIME_B250M-C_UM_V3_WEB.PDF
4. Update the MEI drivers using DRV_MEI_Intel_Con_KBL_SZ_W10_64_VER11701057_20190401R.zip
5. Use this update tool - MEUpdateTool_11.8.77.3664_S.zip
6. Update to this bios - PRIME_B250M-C/PRIME-B250M-C-ASUS-1608.zip
7. Check windows updates.

[Música]

Thank you for reminding me to finally create a restore point for my more recent NUC.