Author Topic: Improvements for Classical Music Support  (Read 46233 times)

Steven

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i would be interested what comments some of the early posters such as "vincent kars" and redwing have on whats been done.

hiccup

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It would be useful to be able to use the new 'show movement' tag as a component for virtual tags, but it is currently not available in the list of available tags.
Can it be added?

Steven

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It would be useful to be able to use the new 'show movement' tag as a component for virtual tags, but it is currently not available in the list of available tags.
Can it be added?
its added for the next update

http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_1/MusicBee31_Patched.zip
Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 09:53:42 PM by Steven


hiccup

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For how title is displayed in the main panel i am also ok with MB always showing title and adding a new predefined tag for how work/movement is currently displayed in title.

I think this indeed should be done. It is currently breaking existing formulas for virtual tags that rely on the actual 'Title' tag frame.

psychoadept

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For how title is displayed in the main panel i am also ok with MB always showing title and adding a new predefined tag for how work/movement is currently displayed in title.

I think this indeed should be done. It is currently breaking existing formulas for virtual tags that rely on the actual 'Title' tag frame.

+1
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Steven

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For how title is displayed in the main panel i am also ok with MB always showing title and adding a new predefined tag for how work/movement is currently displayed in title.

I think this indeed should be done. It is currently breaking existing formulas for virtual tags that rely on the actual 'Title' tag frame.
yes i agree - Title will not always show the tagged Title and there is a new predefined tag called "Title (Display)" that automatically adapts for classical music


hiccup

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With all development and changes going on in relation to extended support for classical music, it seems like a good moment to reconsider my own tagging schemes, and try out some new possibilities.

I am sharing here what I am considering to use as a new system, both to: get some feedback from other active members, perhaps helping other members getting such a workflow system to work, and also to see how well this all works and perhaps stumbling upon some possible improvements for MusicBee itself.

My objectives are:

- making it possible to have a clear and usable distinction between works, acts, movements etc. for classical music
- making it easy to notice what albums and tracks need work in improving their tag info. (which is quite a challenge for classical music)
- making it possible to have library views and handling that work well for a mixed and varied library, containing both modern and classical music, some scarcely tagged, some elaborately tagged. Without the need to have to much different layouts and settings between classical and modern albums and tracks


Prerequisites:

Using a recent (currently in beta) MusicBee 3.1 version. (≥3.1.6241)
Having at least a few classical tracks that adhere to the advised way of populating the 'Title' tag for classical songs.

This means that the title should preferably contain all available information on:
the name of the Work, the work number (catalogue number), the name of the Act/Scene/Movement, the name of the Section (the smallest divider in this scheme)

The delimiters to be used should be:
work, catalogue nr.: act/scene - section/passage

Some examples:
Dido and Aeneas, Z. 626: Act I. - Chorus "Fear no danger to ensue"
Die Winterreise, D. 911: No. 24, Der Leiermann
Rigoletto: Scene 1 - II. Questa o quella per me pari sono

To try this out, create the following virtual tags:
(I use the small ° to indicate it's a virtual tag, and so it won't conflict with possible existing tags)

name: Work °
Code
$IsNull(<Show Movement>,<Album>,$IsNull(<Work>,$If($Contains($Split(<Title>,: ,1),", "),$Split(<Title>,", ",1),$Split(<Title>,: ,1)),<Work>))

name: Cat. nr. °
Code
$IsNull(<Show Movement>,,$Split($Split(<Title>,: ,1),", ",2))

name: Work & cat.nr. °
Code
$IsNull(<Show Movement>,<Album>,$IsNull(<Work>,$Split(<Title>,: ,1),<Work>))

name: Act/Movement °
Code
$IsNull(<Show Movement>,,$If($Contains($Split(<Title>,: ,2),-),$Split($Split(<Title>,: ,2)," - ",1),))

name: Title/Section °
Code
$IsNull(<Show Movement>,<Title>,$If($Contains(<Title>,-),$Split($Split(<Title>,: ,2)," - ",2),$Split(<Title>,: ,2)))


Good to know:

This scheme currently makes no use of the new 'Movement' tag.
It may use the new 'Work' tag, and the 'Show Movements' switch that activates some new features.

The reasons for not using the 'Movement' tag are:
1. the name implies it would be musical correct, yet it will not be in many cases, since that term is for example not used for Opera.
2. it is not sufficient to have only that extra tag as an extra refinement, we need at least one more.
3. the necessary information on actual movements, acts, scenes etc. can already be (and will be) derived from the title tag.

For classical albums and tracks (or e.g. rock-operas for that matter) that have the title filled in according to the scheme as explained above, you should activate the new 'extended classical tags' features.
This is done by opening the Tag Editor for that track(s), then click on the small arrows next to 'title' (under the 'Tags' tab) so that 'work' and 'movement' fields appear, and then click save.
(This will write a 'Show Movements=1' tag for that file(s), and will activate some new features that the above virtual tags will use)

For tracks that don't have the 'Title' tag properly populated conforming to the order and delimiters suggested above, and therefor perhaps display badly, just disable the 'Show Movements' feature for that track(s). Than the actual contents of the 'Title' tag should show.

As mentioned  before, these virtual tags are intended to accommodate both classical and popular music.
They should work like this:

- Work (should) show the classical 'work' name, or else the album name when 'work' is empty, or when the 'show movements' feature is disabled.
- Cat.nr. (should) show the catalogue number (Opus, BWV, etc), or display empty for classical and modern tracks that don't contain that info, or when the 'show movements' feature is disabled.
- Work & cat. nr. (should) display both the 'work' and the catalogue nr. (if available), or else the same as above.
- Act/Movement (should) show the Act (a.k.a. Scene, Movement). This would be a larger composition that possibly contains smaller sections. It will show empty:
  - if not present (delimited as such) in the 'Title' tag
  - for (most) popular music
  - when the 'show movements' feature is not activated for that track(s)
- Title/Section (should) show:
  - a section that belongs to the act/scene/movement above it.
  - the title for a track that is 'on it's own' and not part of a act/scene/movement
  - the title of the track for most popular music
  - the contents of the 'Title' tag if the 'Show Movements' feature is not activated for that track(s)

Tip:
For the 'Albums and Tracks' layout, it's probably the nicest to set 'Act/Movement' as sub-grouping header.

Finally:

- Don't try this all out on your actual library! Preferably use a secondary portable installation of MusicBee, and use only copies of your music files. (then you could also experiment freely with changing the title tags to see what the result is)
- Any feedback is welcome. This is a first effort on using these new features, and I would be very surprised if I hadn't made some mistakes in the thought process and/or the formulas.
- That also goes for the musical terms and descriptions I am using here. I think it's not possible to do this without making some compromises, but if anybody has comments or suggestions to improve on those, that's very welcome too.
Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 10:46:54 PM by hiccup

psychoadept

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So, my request to have support for MVNM and MVIN in Picard has spun off into a HUGE discussion of Work/Movement handling by MusicBrainz in general.  Might be worth keeping an eye on: https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/PICARD-1043
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vincent kars

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i would be interested what comments some of the early posters such as "vincent kars" and redwing have on whats been done.

You r efforts are much appreciated

For me, the “problem” isn’t in the tagging department.
I have solved that years ago by using a specialized tagger (MusiCHI)
What I need is a player allowing you to handle composition in the same was as it handles Albums.
As far as I could judge, this not possible in MB.

Steven

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What I need is a player allowing you to handle composition in the same was as it handles Albums.
can you give a more detailed explanation of that?


vincent kars

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can you give a more detailed explanation of that?

MusicBee kas a couple of views



The unit of observation is Album or Artist.
I of course want Composition.



I can more ore less emulate this by adding the Composition to the Album definition.
Still this doens't yield the unique compositions as it is tied to the album, hence to a performance.

What I had in mind is what if we could define various groupings

If I could change 2: Album into 2: Composition
1: Composer
2: Composition
This would yield unique compositions by composers in the various displays.

If the interface would allow for multiple independent groupings I could make a couple of tabs say
Album
Composition
Opus
Year
etc

Hopefully a bit more clear.
Anyway MusicBee can handle classical quiet good: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MusicBee/MusicBee_Classical.htm

Steven

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i havent considered what you have said just yet, but want to point out for the last section in your write-up, i would advise against putting pictures directly in the internal picture cache because its disposable.
The pictures should go in the Thumb sub-folder of the artist pictures folder as configured in Preferences/Tags(1)
eg.
the default for artist pictures is:
C:\Users\<your id>\Music\MusicBee\Artist Pictures\
and the thumbs go in
C:\Users\<your id>\Music\MusicBee\Artist Pictures\Thumb