Author Topic: Proposal: Extend 'Genre' hierarchy with 'Subgenre'  (Read 38560 times)

psychoadept

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Could it be possible to interact with the main window and maybe even tag editor while editing the tag hierarchy? Would make transferring values much easier.

Another small convenience thing: if you add a new line from the end of the previous line, MusicBee auto-tabs so they stay in line. Could it do the same if you have your cursor at the beginning of the line (but after the tabs)? Currently, that moves the text to the very beginning of the next line. If that's not clear I can capture a gif.
Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 07:07:54 AM by psychoadept
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Steven

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Could it be possible to interact with the main window and maybe even tag editor while editing the tag hierarchy? Would make transferring values much easier.

Another small convenience thing: if you add a new line from the end of the previous line, MusicBee auto-tabs so they stay in line. Could it do the same if you have your cursor at the beginning of the line (but after the tabs)? Currently, that moves the text to the very beginning of the next line. If that's not clear I can capture a gif.
sure,
https://getmusicbee.com/patches/MusicBee34_Patched.zip

psychoadept

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Thanks! Finally got a chance to play with this again, and that helps a lot.


And because I seem to try all the weird things, I've found there's some odd behavior if you do a Local Node Only search with the hierarchy active. It does not filter to the search results, with either a search box or a custom search. Clicking on the hierarchy explorer shows tracks that aren't in the search results again.

Doing a search of the entire library behaves as expected and filters to what's shown in the search results. (I actually didn't mean to do a Local Node search, but it was set to that by accident. *shrug*)
Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 04:53:53 AM by psychoadept
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Steven

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the tag hierarchy panel is now responsive to text searches and filtering by other panels such as the thumbnail browser

https://getmusicbee.com/patches/MusicBee34_Patched.zip

hiccup

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@ alec.tron

If I recall correctly you were thinking about creating a hierarchy file for musical instruments a while back.
I'm curious; how is that going?

alec.tron

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@hiccup
There's the initial basic one on github (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32978.msg180684#msg180684). But, I do have a very large / detailed one, based on MIMO as a WIP file... but, as MIMO allows multi assignments, and it mixes 'families' and descriptors, as well as there being a few instruments with the same name, I've started to tweak it away from source...
But, I'll make it available on github, once that's in a passable state (for my intents & purposes).
c.

hiccup

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But, I'll make it available on github, once that's in a passable state (for my intents & purposes).
c.

Thanks, and be sure to advertise it here when you do?

alec.tron

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Thanks, and be sure to advertise it here when you do?

Doing & done :)
Bit the bullet, and finished the reformatting & cleanup over the last days.

So there's around 2000 instruments based on the core of the MIMO database (which is multi value / facets based... so did not translate 1:1 into a unique grouping/name system as required for the Tag-Hierarchies, and heavy editing was necessary so, if people have better ideas where which should go [i.e. is a Player Piano a mechanical instrument first, or a keyboard instrument...? I tried to go with the majority approach when uncertain...] [also, there were a few odd instruments, where very different ones existed under the same name... so again, went by majority. Alas, there's a "Zang", which is a trumpet, as well as a marimba, as well as cymbals - from different regions.... and 1 each...  ]), as well as added a first pass of categories that do not exist on MIMO, or were not developed enough yet (i.e. added grouping for Voices [different humans, animals, etc], added more to the electronic category as needed [i.e. the most popular Synthesizers], Sample category, etc. - all very subjective atm in those areas and a WIP...).

But, here you go, if it helps others as well:

Github File Page
https://github.com/alectron/MusicBee_TagHierarchies/blob/master/Instruments/Instruments_MIMO.txt
Github Raw File
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/alectron/MusicBee_TagHierarchies/master/Instruments/Instruments_MIMO.txt


Also, I'll now need to start reformatting shitloads of instruments tags into MIMO spelling/writing... :/

Churs.
c.
Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:35:27 PM by alec.tron

alec.tron

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Also, a few question for Steven, or if others know:

The tag hierarchy panel seems to show wrong aggregated numbers quite often. Interestingly grouping nodes do count the contents of their children correctly, but ::tag hierachies, do show a lot of discrepancies for me (just a random anecdotal example - I'm looking at a category that eg states:
Tagname(5)
when inside that group are 35 files...?
Another reads
Tagname(30)
But, when clicking on it, it did show 90 files inside. And after a short moment, the 30 in the hierarchy window became a 90...?!)

And secondly - might be related to the above. When switching tabs (from main library, to Inbox for example) - the Tag hierarchy panel seems to switch correctly to the (reduced) Inbox content. But, when then jumping back to the main library, it keeps the values/number from the inbox, on the different ::Tag branches, but does show the contents correcly - but in this case, never seems to update the numbers, but always show the ones from Inbox....?!

Any way you can replicate this and it's a bug, or is there a way to switch off TagHoerarchyPanel for the inbox alternatively...?
Churs.
c.

hiccup

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Doing & done :)
Bit the bullet, and finished the reformatting & cleanup over the last days.

Great, thanks alec.tron!

This could be a very nice additional way to browse your library, and find music you wouldn't easily run into otherwise.
I only just took a quick look at the file for now. (actual testing will have to wait)

E.g. browsing and filtering through keyboards and synthesizers could be fun.
(but... quick observation: Where is the Fender Rhodes?)

edit:
So you didn't use or integrate MusicBrainz' instruments list?
https://musicbrainz.org/instruments
Why not? Aren't you using Picard for tagging and so getting the instruments for recordings?
Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 07:41:24 AM by hiccup

Steven

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Also, a few question for Steven, or if others know:
The existing behavior is when you associate an node with a tag (::xxx), even when that node has children, the main panel will only show the (::xxx) matches for node and not aggregate the children, hence the count reflects that ie. the count should correspond to whats displayed in the main panel when that node is selected

alec.tron

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ie. the count should correspond to whats displayed in the main panel when that node is selected
Thanks for the confirmation - as this is what I would have expected, but is actually rarely happening. i.e. often for me, the (xxx) number of a tag group with NO children, is not accurate to the actual content / amount of files of that group.
What I mean by aggregated is a group without a "::" tag assignment - which in turn combines the 'shown' (xxx) numbers correctly.
But the core issue is that the (xxx) number of a node with "::" tag assignment  (with no children) is not correct, fairly often, and never when switching tabs twice, seemingly.
Is no one else seeing this ?

So you didn't use or integrate MusicBrainz' instruments list?
https://musicbrainz.org/instruments
Why not?
This is a MIMO based taxonomy ( https://mimo-international.com/MIMO/instrument-families.aspx ), which I found the most researched/developed for all kinds of insturments - alas, with the aforementioned issues (multi assignements, vastly different (rare/obscure) instruments with the same name, mixture of taxonomy/family names & attribute groups).

Aren't you using Picard for tagging and so getting the instruments for recordings?
I am not using Picard (mostly as I have not found a satisfactory way to re-route the default tag mapping to custom fields.... it would be a nice additional data set, especially for 'pop' & classical/folk music... where discogs is notoriously under developed... ).
But, I do set Instrument tags by hand, as for me the important bit is the song defining instruments and NOT every instrument used in a song or state in the credits - so the musicBrainz instruments tags would only have limited use for me anyway. On top of that, I find them a fairly patchy mess...

As for a Fender Rhodes - that falls under the generic electric piano category in Mimo.
IF I would distinguish a Fender Rhodes from other electric pianos I would create a sub category... but for me the broader approach is fine. Same for Hammond Organ, would be living under electric organs...

c.
Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 10:23:09 AM by alec.tron

hiccup

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Quote
so, if people have better ideas where which should go [i.e. is a Player Piano a mechanical instrument first, or a keyboard instrument...?

Why not put it both under mechanical instruments, and under keyboard instruments?
When using hierarchy browsing you will then find the songs tagged with it under both nodes.

Quote
But, I do set Instrument tags by hand, as for me the important bit is the song defining instruments and NOT every instrument used in a song or state in the credits - so the musicBrainz instruments tags would only have limited use for me anyway. On top of that, I find them a fairly patchy mess...

Wow, that's a lot of work.
I feel that if Picard/MusicBrainz would work better for you that might be an easier path.
You could then add instruments for recordings to it's database, and you would get those, and the ones that lots of other users contribute back through Picard.
And you would help improving it's database.

I do share the idea of having a 'main instrument' for a recording though.
For most classical concert pieces I don't need to see all the instruments in the orchestra, but only 'Piano' or 'Violin'.
I do have a custom tag for that. But that's a manual process.
(I also use that tag when e.g. a band has a brilliant bass player or contains a great bass solo)


But MusicBrainz is also not ideal to be honest.

Not all instruments will get their own unique entry, but are added as sort of a comment/refinement that is impossible (or just difficult, I have to check again) to retrieve.

Also, if you would like to suggest missing instruments to be added to their database, I find the person responsible for adding instruments (the instruments inserter) not very responsive or approachable.
So I have not been very active on that department myself to be honest.

alec.tron

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You could then add ... to it's database
Aye, I am active on Discogs and contribute there and use that for all main tags, as for me, this is more suited. But, their negligence of re-strucruting their DB for all kinds of music when growing beyond electronic music is proving difficult for them - as shown when they tried to introduce Tracks as a facet  - which unfortunately failed as the implementation was half-ar*ed unfortunately... and MusicBrainz has shown it has the more thought through data model, generally speaking.
But, neither have solved the genre or instrument issue well...
So, in the meantime until one of them actually adds something consistent & thorough, I'll just continue adding tags by hand when new stuff makes it into the long term library (same for tags like Genres, Energy, Rating.... all are subjectivte, and there is no system to automate this yet [other than having fast access hotkeys for the standard bits...])
c.

hiccup

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But, neither have solved the genre or instrument issue well...
Maybe I'll create an instrument hierarchy file too, with only MusicBrainz' instruments, and see how that turns out in practice.
If that results in something useful, perhaps we could later on combine yours and mine into one 'ultimate' version.
(but considering—as you said—such a hierarchy is also a matter of personal preferences, maybe not. We'll see?)