Author Topic: Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools  (Read 917677 times)

boroda

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There are two thing that confuse me personally in that sentence.

1.
Far as I understand there would be predefined presets (by boroda) and there would be customised presets. (by a user)
So, to me the term 'customised predefined preset' is a little bit confusing.
i've changed the terms i'm using recently to avoid this confusion. now there are "user presets" - they are not named anymore "custom presets" - (either created by user from scratch or copied from predefined presets), and there are "customized predefined presets" (along with "predefined presets", which are not changed by user at all). customized presets are small adjustments of predefined presets without converting them to user presets. only <tag #> and <custom text #> field can be "customized".

2.
'new version by developer'. Firstly I would assume the developer of the plugin (boroda) is referred to here.
Is that correct, or is it referring to the person that edited and/or shared a custom preset?
"developer" is me in this context (and in all contexts i'm using for this plugin).

hiccup

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2.
'new version by developer'. Firstly I would assume the developer of the plugin (boroda) is referred to here.
Is that correct, or is it referring to the person that edited and/or shared a custom preset?
Yes, that's correct, but I'd propose this to make it more clear:
"new version by plugin developer"
Or: "new version(s) of predefined preset(s)"?

I'm still stuck at thinking that 'predefined preset' vs. 'custom preset' should be enough?
Explaining who created a preset doesn't seem that important? (for the purpose of the user interface, that is)
But maybe I am missing something in-between 'custom' and 'predefined' that should indeed be added and explained?

hiccup

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"developer" is me in this context (and in all contexts i'm using for this plugin).
At the risk of repeating my post from a couple of minutes ago, I think that could be confusing.
Somebody that created a custom preset could (with some imagination) also be considered to be the developer of that preset.
I think the word 'developer' should be avoided here.
Presets are either predefined AT&RT presets, or they are custom presets.
Why make things more complicated for both the interface, and for new users?

phred

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How about "custom-defined presets"? Or "user-defined presets"?

I think any reference to "the developer" should be changed to "the plugin developer."
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phred

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@boroda...

I've incorporated your latest changes (deletes/adds/corrections) into this:

ADDING THE PLUGIN:
1- Download the appropriate ZIP file and unpack it to a temporary folder of your choice.
2- Open MusicBee. From the menubar > Edit > Edit Preferences > Plugins > Add Plugin...
3- Browse to the folder where you have unpacked the downloaded zip and open mb_TagTools.zip from this folder. Close the Preferences window.
4- To configure plugin, open MusicBee. From the menubar > Edit > Edit Preferences> Plugins > Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools" > Configure.

INSTALLING ADVANCED SEARCH & REPLACE PRESETS:
1- Open MusicBee. From the menubar > Tools> Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools> Advanced Search & Replace > Click Install All to load all predefined presets.

UPDATING THE PLUGIN:
NOTE: If you are using the portable version of MusicBee, you can update the plugin only by copying  the file mb_TagTools.dll from the archive mb_TagTools.zip to "Plugins" folder in the MusicBee application folder. This will keep all ASR presets as is.

OTHERWISE:
1- Download the appropriate ZIP file and unpack it to a temporary folder of your choice.
2- Open MusicBee. From the menubar > Edit > Edit Preferences > Plugins > Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools > Disable > Close and restart MusicBee.
3- Open MusicBee. From the menubar > Edit > Edit Preferences > Plugins > Add Plugin... > browse to the folder where the updated file mb_TagTools.zip is located and open this file. Close preferences.

UPDATING THE ASR PRESETS:
1- Open MusicBee. From the menubar > Tools > Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools > Advanced Search & Replace.
2a- Click the "Install All" button to install all predefined ASR presets. This installs all predefined presets and will update to the latest version any preset(s) that have already been installed.
OR
2b- Click the "Install New" button to (re)install predefined presets which were created or updated by the plugin developer since last time you installed or updated them by either of two methods.

IMPORTANT NOTE: "Install New" will not reinstall any predefined presets deleted by you. Predefined presets can't be edited but can be "customized." Most predefined presets allow changing some options. Adjusting some criteria of a predefined preset will result in a "customized" preset. Both installation commands will ask you if you want to update the customized preset(s) (if any) and lose your adjustments, or to skip those updated by the plugin developer and update only those not customized by you.

REMOVING THE PLUGIN:
1- Open MusicBee. From the menubar > Edit > Edit Preferences > Plugins.
2- Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools > Uninstall. MusicBee will delete all automatically created files (e.g. settings). You will need to close MusicBee and manually delete file "mb_TagTools.dll" and the subfolders "ru" and "ASR Presets" from "Plugins" folder. The "Plugins" folder is located in MusicBee application folder if you are using the portable version of MusicBee. If using the installer version of MusicBee, it's in the folder "%AppData%\MusicBee".

Unfortunately, no plugin can be uninstalled from Store version of MusicBee at the moment.
Download the latest MusicBee v3.5 or 3.6 patch from here.
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hiccup

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How about "custom-defined presets"? Or "user-defined presets"?
What would be the difference between a 'custom preset' (what most people will understand without much explanation) and a 'custom-defined preset'? (which I have never heard of before and have no idea of what that means)

Quote
I think any reference to "the developer" should be changed to "the plugin developer."
So we disagree about using the term 'developer' in a user interface.
So if I create a custom preset for AT&RT and share it, am I the 'preset developer'?
Or is there now just another custom preset out there?

edit
Or maybe I am mixing up what you have been discussing about the user interface of the plugin itself vs. explanatory texts?
Hm, this is why I thought it would be better to leave you and boroda at it and just await the next version of the plugin and the explanatory texts before opening my mouth.
Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 11:19:48 PM by hiccup

boroda

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How about "custom-defined presets"? Or "user-defined presets"?
What would be the difference between a 'custom preset' (what most people will understand without much explanation) and a 'custom-defined preset'? (which I have never heard of before and have no idea of what that means)

you probably have missed my recent explanation.

i've changed the terms i'm using recently to avoid this confusion. now there are "user presets" - they are not named anymore "custom presets", there are now no "custom presets" at all - (user presets are either created by user from scratch or copied from predefined presets), and there are "customized predefined presets" (along with "predefined presets", which are not changed by user at all). customized presets are small adjustments of predefined presets without converting them to user presets. only <tag #> and <custom text #> field can be "customized".

boroda

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@boroda...

I've incorporated your latest changes (deletes/adds/corrections) into this:
...
@phred, i think we will stop on this edition. it's completely acceptable from my point of view.

i still have one question. that's where my english is too poor to determine if this phase means in english what i want:

     NOTE: If you are using the portable version of MusicBee, you can update the plugin only by copying the file mb_TagTools.dll from the archive mb_TagTools.zip

here i meant "update only the plugin by copying the file", not "update the plugin by only copying the file"

does this english phrase from your latest version of readme mean what i intend to?

boroda

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Hi

After installing the plugin for the first time (5.5 versión) the item "Additional Taggin & Reporting Tools" appears in the Tools Menu but doesn't include any commands.



Apologies if this issue has been addressed already, I can't seem to find it

it's known issue. it's not very important, but difficult to fix, so i'm leaving it unresolved for ages. you simply have clicked mb menu too quickly, before full plugin initialization. i'm always waiting a couple of seconds before trying to use plugin menu.

1. i've tried to fix this issue. now, plugin menu creation is not 100% reliable, but much more reliable than earlier.

-------------

2. from now plugin menu placement can't be changed, menu always is located under mb "tools" menu.

3. any adjustments of menu in plugin settings take effect immediately. mb restart is not required anymore.

4. two text labels are placed in ASR window, which notify if selected preset is user preset, or if it is customized. 

5. some corrections of info messages in plugin (@phred, thank you).

https://www.mediafire.com/file/h2t08o9562efboi/mb_TagTools_latest.zip/file

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@phred, hiccup, i've uploaded plugin to github, changed plugin description on add-on page, and uploaded plugin .zip (see the link on add-on page) structured in new way (.zip contains files mb_TagTools.zip, README FIRST!.txt and README FIRST (RUS)!.txt).

if you have any critical comments, I will be happy to listen to them.

https://getmusicbee.com/addons/plugins/49/additional-tagging-amp-reporting-tools/
Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 10:37:27 PM by boroda

phred

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@phred, i think we will stop on this edition. it's completely acceptable from my point of view.
Ok. Just note that I'm still available (as time permits) to help out further if needed.
It's been a pleasure doing business with you.   :-)

Quote
i still have one question. that's where my english is too poor to determine if this phase means in english what i want:
     NOTE: If you are using the portable version of MusicBee, you can update the plugin only by copying the file mb_TagTools.dll from the archive mb_TagTools.zip
here i meant "update only the plugin by copying the file", not "update the plugin by only copying the file"
does this english phrase from your latest version of readme mean what i intend to?
Hmmm ... I've worked on this for a bit of time today and finally asked my wife to take a look. She's an editor and copywriter and knows English better than Shakespeare.
We have come up with:
If you are using the portable version of MusicBee, you have the ability to update just the plugin (mb_TagTools.dll) without updating any presets. To update only the plugin, simply copy the file mb_TagTools.dll from the zipfile to the plugins folder of MusicBee. You'll have to give permission to overwrite the existing file.

How's that?
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Unzip into your MusicBee directory and overwrite existing files.

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adac

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You guys are really crazy... I've been watching it all these days now. Thank you in advance for your great work. I think it will be another great help to everyone to use this great addon in this great program. Thanks alot. That just had to be said  :)


hiccup

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So over the last week or so I have been looking at the recent updates to both the plugin and the readme and have been taking some notes.
Here they are:

- about the interface


This button will add a star to filter out presets that have a hotkey assigned to them.
But at every subsequent click it will just be adding other stars.
I think it would be better if it would toggle between one star vs. no star.
Then also the 'close' button next to it could be removed.



Shouldn't it be: (separated by ; )
It doesn't require two semi-colons, or does it?


A nitpick:

Personally I find the bold text not so nice to read. Perhaps make it regular. Maybe in a nice blue colour?
And perhaps make the header say: 'Preset description:'


These two buttons are next to each other:

But one pertains specifically to presets, the other more to (changed) settings. A novice user would not understand that.

It would help if the 10 buttons on the left and the 4 on the right had some more obvious visual separation.
Maybe something like this:





This doesn't seem to work properly.
When selecting a predefined preset and use 'Rename/Edit' to edit the preset and then save it, the indicator will not say 'customised by user'.
(I'm not even sure it is supposed to be allowed to edit a predefined preset?)
When selecting a predefined preset and use 'Copy', make some change and save it, it will highlight 'User preset', not 'customised by user'.
So when should 'customised by user' get highlighted?

But, this also goes to the point that I have made earlier: Why not keep things simple, and use only two concepts of presets:
Just 'predefined preset' and 'custom preset'.

There are now: Predefined presets, Customised predefined presets, Customised by user presets, Shared presets, Own presets, and Custom presets.
(and maybe I missed some more)



This one says 'shared presets'.
But in fact it is about 'custom presets'. If a preset has been shared with somebody or not is irrelevant here.
And there is no such thing as presets that can be shared with other people (or different installations) vs. presets that can't.
(well, some will work and some won't, depending on what custom or virtual tags it references, but that's a different matter?)

resulting pop-up balloons with texts like these certainly make no easy read:



These two buttons both pertain to 'custom presets':


The 'export' button specifies it is about custom presets, the 'import' one doesn't.
And the export balloon mentions 'user presets', while the import balloon mentions 'shared presets'.

Why not name these buttons: 'Export custom…' and 'Import custom…'
And make both balloons use the words 'custom presets' instead of 'user' and 'shared'.

b.t.w.
If you do believe it is important to have a certain type of preset being described as 'customised predefined preset', perhaps change it to 'modified predefined preset'?
I think it's equally bad, but it would at least create some extra linguistic distance between it and 'custom preset'.


I think I understand part of the reason that this all came to be is the effort to stuff a lot of explanatory information and variables into the user interface. (both in buttons and balloons)
But I think the interface itself should be as clean and non-confusing as possible.
The same goes for pop-up balloons. They disappear after a couple of seconds and should be brief and comprehensible.

Any further explanations can well go into manuals.

Which brings me to another suggestion:
Have a 'help' button in the main panel. (or maybe a 'documentation' button)
Which leads to a webpage that contains detailed and updated information on the buttons and functions of AS&R.

- - -

-  about the forum topic & the plugin webpage:

Personally I like it if a plugin forum topic (the first post), or a plugin webpage contains a direct download link and perhaps a very brief explanation on how to install it.
Neither the AT&RT forum page, nor the plugin webpage has that, and the user will need to do more clicking to get to that.
Not a big problem, a user may be asked of to make some effort, but I think it wouldn't hurt making things a bit easier.
Not only for novice users, I would also like it if could download a new plugin version by simply clicking one link in the first forum post.
(or maybe Phred could add another link in his signature ;-)

- - -

-  uninstalling the plugin

Uninstalling the plugin using MB's configuration panel does not remove the folders 'RU' and 'ASR presets'
Shouldn't it?

- - -

-  about the readme.txt

1.
The readme text has a chapter on updating the plugin.
For updating a portable version of MB it explains that it allows for updating the plugin itself only.
But under 'OTHERWISE' it does not explain what gets updated exactly.
So is that updating procedure in fact identical to doing a clean install of the plugin?
Are predefined or custom presets affected in anyway?

2.
There is a chapter: UPDATING THE ASR PRESETS:

1 – Open MusicBee. From the menubar > Tools > Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools > Advanced Search & Replace.
2a – Click the "Install All" button to install all predefined ASR presets. This installs all predefined presets and will update to the latest version any preset(s) that have already been installed.
OR
2b – Click the "Install New" button to (re)install predefined presets which were created or updated by the plugin developer since the last time you installed or updated them by either of two methods.



It doesn't say anything about how the user would acquire these updated predefined presets.
And I am assuming that the 'Install new' button does not have the functionality to download new presets by itself.
(which would not be a bad idea?)
So there probably should be some steps added to the tutorial about downloading and extracting files?

The same goes for the related buttons in the interface itself.
When a user clicks the 'Install new' button (and predefined presets are already present), it will just say that nothing was changed:


not giving any explanation to the user about the mechanics behind it.
He would have to guess that a newer set of presets should have been downloaded first.
I'm not sure about how to improve on that exactly, but one option could be to have that button opening a filebrowser that defaults to the location where the plugin is looking for 'updated presets'. That would make things much more obvious to the user.


And pressing 'Install all' can result in this:


So it's a successful error?  ;-)

Also, contrary to what it says, nothing was updated in this case.
It will also say this if you click the button and hadn't downloaded any new presets at all.

- - -

I'm sorry if all this comes across at criticism.
While it probably is in a way, I really like the improvements that have been made over the last couple of weeks/months.
So this is just another effort in trying to help making things even better…

phred

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It would help if the 10 buttons on the left and the 4 on the right had some more obvious visual separation.
Maybe something like this:

I appreciate the time it must've taken you to test, make notes, and create the reply. I, as "editor" of the readme, will do nothing until boroda has had time to digest your comments and makes changes.

As for the interface, I think the suggestion I quoted is an award-winner. It really makes it clear which buttons are for which part of the plugin.
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