Sort the "Artists" by last name

[Anatole]

Hello from France (and thanks to Google traduction)
A question that is probably often asked... but I couldn't find any answer !
Is it possible to classify the "Artists" par le nom de famille - by last name and - pas par le prénom - not by the first name ?

Merci beaucoup et Bonne année 2022 not too much omicronized    before the next variant

[psychoadept]

The Sort Aritst (also Sort Album Artist, Sort Composer, etc) field is useful for this. You first have to be sure your files include that tag, though. If they don't, you may find a specialized tagging program helpful for getting it quickly populated.

[Anatole]

Thank you Psychoadept
I must confess that I am a papy-geek for whom the most basic features of Musicbee are a big mystery.
1. So how do I check if my files include that tag(s) "sort artist" ("sort album artist") ?
2. and where I can find "a specialized tagging program" ? I know Mp3tag    ? and how will I have to install these tags (if they are missing)
3. and at the end, once the tags are installed, how do I proceed to sort by last name.

 Like a papy-geek I need to be a little ... helped 
Bonne soirée

[hiccup]

Could you define your understanding and purpose of 'artist' here?
It would be rather easy to create a virtual tag that turns artist 'Dan Foggerty' into 'Foggerty, Dan'.
But that same virtual tag would also turn 'Steely Dan' into: 'Dan, Steely'.
So it might be good to explain in more detail what you are trying to do, and how you expect it to work.

[psychoadept]

As hiccup says, this could be as simple as using a virtual tag for sorting (although there are always complicated edge cases, in my experience). To answer your questions:

1. So how do I check if my files include that tag(s) "sort artist" ("sort album artist") ?

You need to look at the files in the tag editor. This may help: https://musicbee.fandom.com/wiki/Tagging

2. and where I can find "a specialized tagging program" ? I know Mp3tag    ? and how will I have to install these tags (if they are missing)

Mp3tag should do the job as well as anything. I can't give you instructions on using it, though.

3. and at the end, once the tags are installed, how do I proceed to sort by last name.

What I would do is set up a custom sort order in Sorting/Grouping preferences and use that. There are other solutions, though.
https://musicbee.fandom.com/wiki/Sorting_%26_Grouping

[Anatole]

Merci beaucoup Hiccup & Psychoadept  
- What I am trying top do is to sort my collection (by the family name and not the first name) ; or to put it another way : when "artist" is a sorting criterion, I would liket the last name to be taken into account first. Effectivement for the pop and the rock music it will generate some problems : "Pink Floyd" which will become "Floyd, Pink" ; but it will remain a minority in my music library .
 
If it can be helpful : un exemple du tag editor of one of my musical file ici
 & ici
What I would understand is that it is necessary : 1. to create a virtual tag  2. to set up a custom sort order in Sorting/Grouping preferences ?
I will still need some help for that  

Bonne journée

[psychoadept]

I haven't forgotten about this, I've just been overwhelmed and not able to work through the steps. I will reply fully when I get the chance.

[vincent kars]

Don't no much about custom sorting as I really took the problem to rename all artist in my classical by Last name, First name.
However in this screen shot  ici there is a panel "Tri"
In my case it is called sorting and here you can define custom sorting so
Artist: Gideon Kremer
Sort as: Kremer, Gideon

This might populate an artist_sort tag.
Use the tag inspector to check if this is the case.

[karbock]

Bonjour Anatole! You have three different possibilities:

(1) Updating tags "AlbumArtist" / "Composer" in your music files in order to match the pattern <LAST NAME, given name>.
This is what Vincent Kars and I did.
The process can be automated in mp3tag by using "regular expressions" (see below).
--
(2) Leaving tags "AlbumArtist" / "Composer" unchanged,
but adding tags "AlbumArtistSort" / "ComposerSort" to your music files, with values in the form <LAST NAME, given name>.
Again, you can automatically populate them by using regular expressions in mp3tag.
MusicBee will then sort your lists (AlbumArtist / Composer) by last name, but still display the full names as <given name, last name>.
--
(3) Using MusicBee's feature "Artist and Composer Name Sorting".
It is available from:
(EN) Preferences -> (tab) Sorting/Grouping -> (button) Artists...
(FR) Préférences -> (onglet) Ordre d'affichage -> (bouton) Artistes...
In this case, you will have to fill out the list manually, which can be rather long.
MusicBee will display the names as in (2). You won't need mp3tag.
In fact, automation is still possible in this case, but it would require more scripting work than for options (1) and (2).
--

Maybe you aren't familiar with mp3tag and regular expressions. I can explain what to do for option (2) some time later.

[Anatole]

Merci beaucoup  
I'llI  watch  these answers very carefully. But Vincent I could'nt find your "screen shot" ?

Bon vikend

[karbock]

How to create tag AlbumArtistSort,
in the form <SURNAME, GivenName>,
based on tag AlbumArtist in the form <GivenName SurName>

Of course, you can perform similar operations for ArtistSort and ComposerSort if needed.

1) Open mp3tag.
2) Open the directory containing your music files (Ctrl+D).
3) Add "AlbumArtistSort" to the displayed columns, with the following:
    3.1) Right-click on the column headers and, in the menu, select "Customize columns…"
    3.2) Click on tag "AlbumArtist".
    3.3) Click on button "New".
    3.4) Fill in the following values, then click on OK:
        - Name:(Sort)AlbumArtist
        - Value:%albumartistsort%
        - Field:%albumartistsort%
        - (Leave 'Sort by' blank.)
4) Define a new "Action", for full names comprising 1 given name:
    4.1) Menu Actions → Actions
    4.2) Click on the first button, the one with a yellow star (= New).
    4.3) Name of action group:AA to AAsort - 1 given name
    -> OK
    4.4) Click on the first button (= New).
    4.5) Select action type "Format value".
    4.6) Fill in, then OK:
        - Field:ALBUMARTISTSORT
        - Format string:%albumartist%
    4.7) Click on the first button (= New).
    4.8 ) Select action type "Replace with regular expression"
    4.9) Fill in, then OK :
        - Field:ALBUMARTISTSORT
        - Regular expression:^([^ ]+) (.+)$
        - Replace matches with:$upper($2), $1
    4.10) Click on "OK (window "Actions").
    4.11) Click on Close (window "Action groups").
    → The action is now available from menu Actions → AA to AAsort - 1 given name.
5) Apply the action to all the music files where the AlbumArtist comprises one given name:
    5.1) In the main panel, select all the concerned rows.
    5.2) Menu Actions → AA to AAsort - 1 given name
6) On a similar way, you can define a new action for full names comprising 2 given names.
    Do as for task 4), except:
    - Name of action group:AA to AAsort - 2 given names
    - Regular expression:^([^ ]+ [^ ]+) (.+)$

NOTES:
1) With the RegExp defined above, "Jean-Marie" counts as one given name.
2) It is up to the user to determine whether a full name with 3+ words comprises:
    - 1 given name (e.g.: Ralph VAUGHAN WILLIAMS)
    - 2 given names (e.g.: John Philip SOUSA)
3) As you can guess, the regular expression for persons having 3 given names is:
    - Regular expression:^([^ ]+ [^ ]+ [^ ]+) (.+)$

[Anatole]

Bonsoir,
Merci Karbock : I'll look at your "solution" very carefully  
Bonne semaine

[Anatole]

Bonsoir,
Karbock, I tried to do the process you indicated...and  it gives this as a result ??
Next step, I guess, is to use this in "Musicbee/ Settings/Display order" but how  ??

And I have a new question!! I found out that part of the "album artist" tags are empty...: How, with Mp3tag, automatically copy the contents of the "performer" tag into the "album artist" tag

Bonne soirée

[karbock]

Bonsoir,
Karbock, I tried to do the process you indicated...and  it gives this as a result ??

Bonsoir, Anatole.

Oops, there was a mistake in step (4.9) due to distraction. I have corrected it in my previous post.
You can correct it in mp3tag like this:
* Select Menu Actions -> Actions (or [Alt+6]).
* Select "AA to AAsort - 1 given name".
* Click on the second buton (Modify).
* Select the 2nd row and click on button Modify again.
* In the third zone, replace "$upper($1), $2" by "$upper($2), $1" and confirm.
* Apply the updated action (AA to AAsort - 1 given name) to the concerned tracks.

Next step, I guess, is to use this in "Musicbee/ Settings/Display order" but how  ??

There are two possible ways.

FIRST OPTION (the simpler one):

* Open dialog Preferences -> Sorting/Grouping.
* Make sure that the box to the left of "enable custom sort values..." IS NOT ticked (FR: définir les critères de tri personnalisés).
* Browse your collection by "Album Artist Sort" instead of "Album Artist":
   - Click on the main left panel header showing "Album Artist"
   - Select Other tags -> Album Artist Sort.

SECOND OPTION:

(1) Activate the sorting criteria in MusicBee:
* Open dialog Preferences -> Sorting/Grouping.
* Make sure that the box to the left of "enable custom sort values..." IS ticked (FR: définir les critères de tri personnalisés).

(2) In the same dialog box, remove the incorrect sorting criteria:
* Click on button "Artists..."
* Click on button "Show as text".
* Empty the list (click in the edit box, [Ctrl+A], [Delete]).
* Confirm (button "Save" twice).

N.B.: Step (2) above is necessary if you updated your MusicBee library after defining incorrect AlbumArtistSort values with mp3tag.
You can also delete the values on a case-by-case basis with the [--] buttons.

(3) Update your library, by pressing [Insert].
(Or: Menu MusicBee -> Files -> Scan folders for new files.)

And I have a new question!! I found out that part of the "album artist" tags are empty...: How, with Mp3tag, automatically copy the contents of the "performer" tag into the "album artist" tag

* In the main panel, select the concerned tracks.
* Menu Convert -> Tag-Tag (or [Alt+5])
* Field:ALBUMARTIST
* Format string:%artist%
* Confirm.

[Anatole]

  Merci beaucoup I got what I wanted
But I don't know exactly how ! since "albumartitsort" is not available in the bottom ? I think I did it with "critères de tri personnalisé" in the top >?
Again a question about MP3tgag : how to modify at once the content of a tag for a whole series of selected lines
Encore une fois thank you very much