Author Topic: Change Formating Request... for "Bottom function Bar" and other UI things.  (Read 2226 times)

leeuniverse

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1. Please switch sides of the Play Button group with the other group of function buttons, per the picture below.
Most people are Right-handed, so the play group would be better on the right side.

2. Please add the STOP Button by default...  While we can add it with most skins, the button often isn't the right size, too small etc.
A stop button is important because it's better to "edit" a file when it's NOT open/in use by another program, especially if you're using another program to edit/delete the file.
"Pause" doesn't fully "release" the file, and this can cause potential problems.

3. You've made the Song "scroll-bar/slider" far too close to the bottom, and you've removed the "slider", the little "notch" we need to grab to move the slider manually...  Basically, you've made the slider really hard to use to both click on and to slide.  I get trying to make the bottom bar more "streamlined/thinner", but you've gone too far in these what look like new skins I'm guessing (new to MB).
I've tried every single skin, and the ONLY way I've been able to make the slider even functional for me, and to have a decent skin is to put the bar at the TOP and Enlarge it, etc.  But even then it's just not formatted like it should be for a proper slider.  The skins in which the bottom bar is still "big" are missing the STOP Button option in the right-click menu.

Although I'm entirely for making the bar using less space, for example, I can see how the old skin can be made less "tall" thus using less space, but as I mentioned, you've made it "too small" that you've caused a loss of functionality in the slider, and it's really hard to actually click on and use.

4. As the other picture shows, please make the "Song Playing Icon" for ALL skins "Red" (save the ones in which the colors wouldn't match such as a PINK highlighting with one skin).  The red will look good in ALL skins otherwise and be easier to see which song is playing etc., white or black skins it doesn't matter, it WILL look good.  I couldn't use skins I wanted because this nice red icon wasn't being used.

5. Also, please make it so the song that's playing is "highlighted" automatically in the Playlist when we start the song, like the section in the Left Bar is highlighted.  We of course can highlight another playlist item when we manually click on it still to know it's the file we are currently seeing/working on.  But, this minor visual change would be nice.

Thank you for this wonderful program...  Tried MediaMonkey and I thought it was actually better, and there are a couple of things I will address, but your program just works like it should, is so configurable to exactly how I want.  So thank you for the work on this...  MediaMonkey literally destroyed half the tags in my files with their "auto-tagging" even though I thought I had disabled every such setting, and had I not had a backup that was only partially changed, I would have been far worse off.  Literally, 100's of hours of time lost.



Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 11:24:21 PM by leeuniverse

hiccup

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1-4 can all be done with skinning.
The default MusicBee skin will never please everybody.

For example, all my skins have the player control buttons on the right and have a stop button.
(except for the Chameleon and Cheetah skins that are intended to make it much easier for users wanting to create their own skins)

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and you've removed the "slider", the little "notch" we need to grab to move the slider manually

Such a button in the progress bar has no actual function, and would only be aesthetical.
You can click and drag anywhere on the progressbar. A visual button doesn't make any difference, and you don't "need to grab" it.

If you don't want to do full-skinning, you can also change the colours of elements in a skin by creating a rather simple 'piggy back' skin.
https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=29815.0

For the playing and paused icons you mention you can use:
PlayingIconColourOverride.Default
PlayingIconColourOverride.Highlight
PausedIconColourOverride.Default
PausedIconColourOverride.Highlight

leeuniverse

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What I'm recommending is something that "would" please the vast majority... so it's not an "everyone" issue.
The basic functioning of something should satisfy the majority who use the thing, not have "frustrating" things about it.  Such things should be fixed, which is why I'm mentioning the above things, removing frustrations.  And not being able to properly click on the progress slider easy IS a frustration thing.

Having difficulty clicking the "progress bar" because it's so close to the edge (you can click off the program), and is massively so SMALL that it's hard to click on period, is NOT a "me" issue, it's a basic usability issue that EVERYONE would encounter.
Sure, some might not care, but this is a basic functionality issue that impacts the majority.  The above screenshot of a theme and positioning etc. I've found at least works, but like I said, the "basic" setup should be better, hence why I'm addressing it.

I'm coming at this as a "newbie" in using this program, and that was the FIRST thing I had issues with, is clicking on the dang progress bar.  You shouldn't have to be a "surgeon" to click a basic slider.  BTW, the little "notch" also made the slider actually "taller" without it "looking" taller so it is MUCH easier to click on to change the position.  So, it's NOT just an "aesthetics" thing, it actually allows the process of changing the progress bar easier while not making the progress bar huge and thus ugly.

I wanted to use one of the skins that's bigger, first I see they are "too big", so I get wanting a small bottom bar.  Second, there are few skins that have the bigger bar, and they ALL didn't have the STOP button.

As to the Red Audio Icon, this change would I'm sure be fine with everyone.  The black/grey icon is just hard to see, to see what's playing etc.
So, this would be a change I'm sure the vast majority would be fine with as default.

I'll try to check out your skins.  I wasn't having success finding anything in the Skin site.  Old, no downloads existing, etc.
Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 07:51:10 AM by leeuniverse

hiccup

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What I'm recommending is something that "would" please everyone...
Having difficulty clicking the "progress bar" because it's so close to the edge, is massively so SMALL that it's hard to click on, is NOT a "me" issue, it's a basic usability issue that EVERYONE would encounter.

I think you shouldn't try to speak for everyone.
No other user has raised these two things being an issue.
And there are many options available to change them.

leeuniverse

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What I'm recommending is something that "would" please everyone...
Having difficulty clicking the "progress bar" because it's so close to the edge, is massively so SMALL that it's hard to click on, is NOT a "me" issue, it's a basic usability issue that EVERYONE would encounter.

I think you shouldn't try to speak for everyone.
No other user has raised these two things being an issue.
And there are many options available to change them.

So it's my "imagination" then that the slider is soooo "massively close" to the edge, and so small that you don't think people have to be "far" too careful to not click outside the border, as well to be so careful to click it in the first place due to it being so small?

Just because people haven't complained doesn't mean it's not an issue...  I'm complaining... BECAUSE it's an issue.  So Hello...
Also, just because there are "workarounds" like I show in the above pic how I've formatted my bar to make it at least workable (which others are likely doing), thus I CAN LIVE with it now, doesn't mean the "default" skin design shouldn't be changed to be more "user friendly" which is WHY I'm addressing the problem.  Do you not understand this?

Also, I checked out your skins and basically, NONE of your dark skins have the Play Group on the right side, so that didn't work for me.
But again, thanks for trying to help.

hiccup

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Also, I checked out your skins and basically, NONE of your dark skins have the Play Group on the right side, so that didn't work for me.

To readers (other than leeuniverse) stumbling upon this thread looking for a dark skin with the player controls on the right side, these are my skin contributions that have exactly that:

A Sophisticated Bee (At Night)
Elemental
Jistme the NightBee
Juke's Joint
Sportura Pinstripe
Sting
The Blue Bee and the Sea
Tron Punk
Tweakers Bee (At Night)
Void Black
Void Blue
Void Green
Void Red
Zen Hive
Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 05:24:06 PM by hiccup

Zak

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A lot to unpack here...

1. Please switch sides of the Play Button group with the other group of function buttons, per the picture below.
Most people are Right-handed, so the play group would be better on the right side.
(Most) people read left-to-right, so controls in any program are arranged left-to-right. It has nothing to do with left- or right-handedness.
Taskbar buttons are added from the left, menus are in the top-left of the program window, browser tabs are on the left...
You could trace this all the way back to Xerox PARC.

2. Please add the STOP Button by default...  While we can add it with most skins, the button often isn't the right size, too small etc.
A stop button is important because it's better to "edit" a file when it's NOT open/in use by another program, especially if you're using another program to edit/delete the file.
"Pause" doesn't fully "release" the file, and this can cause potential problems.
Shift-click on the Pause button will perform a Stop command.

4. As the other picture shows, please make the "Song Playing Icon" for ALL skins "Red" (save the ones in which the colors wouldn't match such as a PINK highlighting with one skin).  The red will look good in ALL skins otherwise and be easier to see which song is playing etc., white or black skins it doesn't matter, it WILL look good.  I couldn't use skins I wanted because this nice red icon wasn't being used.
If you have a particular skin you like but want to tweak, ask the author of that skin, or tweak it yourself.
You don't get to say something will look good for ALL skins - you immediately contradict yourself by admitting that this isn't true.
The point of skins is to change the program's appearance. Having a built-in setting that can't be changed defeats the purpose.

5. Also, please make it so the song that's playing is "highlighted" automatically in the Playlist when we start the song, like the section in the Left Bar is highlighted.  We of course can highlight another playlist item when we manually click on it still to know it's the file we are currently seeing/working on.  But, this minor visual change would be nice.
I'm not sure what you're asking here, but have you looked at the highlight playing tracks settings in the Now Playing Preferences? They might help.

...your program just works like it should, is so configurable to exactly how I want.
Apparently not.

What I'm recommending is something that "would" please the vast majority... so it's not an "everyone" issue.
... it's a basic usability issue that EVERYONE would encounter.
...this is a basic functionality issue that impacts the majority.
...this would be a change I'm sure the vast majority would be fine with as default.
Emphasis is mine, but consider how this looks when a few days after registering on the forum you start speaking on behalf of 1000s of other people, many of whom have been using MusicBee for almost a decade.

...to the Red Audio Icon, this change would I'm sure be fine with everyone.
If nothing else, I can assure you that this change would not be fine with everyone.

I'm coming at this as a "newbie" in using this program, and that was the FIRST thing I had issues with, is clicking on the dang progress bar.
Immediately jumping online to complain about the stuff you don't like as a self-admitted newbie, isn't especially helpful.
For one, maybe it just takes a little getting used to - maybe after a few more weeks what you thought was a major issue isn't an issue at all.
For two, as pointed out, the actual click target is larger than what is displayed. Pixel-precision clicking is not required.
For three, try replacing the progress bar with a wavebar control, which has a configurable height and is arguably more useful because it also displays the song structure.

tldr; Suggestions for improvement are welcome - and sometimes vigorously debated - but this reads like a list of demands.
Bee excellent to each other...

leeuniverse

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Also, I checked out your skins and basically, NONE of your dark skins have the Play Group on the right side, so that didn't work for me.

To readers (other than leeuniverse) stumbling upon this thread looking for a dark skin with the player controls on the right side, these are my skin contributions that have exactly that:

A Sophisticated Bee (At Night)
Elemental
Jistme the NightBee
Juke's Joint
Sportura Pinstripe
Sting
The Blue Bee and the Sea
Tron Punk
Tweakers Bee (At Night)
Void Black
Void Blue
Void Green
Void Red
Zen Hive

Almost ALL of those you list above are "unusable" for one reason or another.
So, I'll explain...

A Sophisticated Bee (At Night) - Entirely RED, I don't find such a thing usable.
Elemental - Was likely the ONLY contender, was actually interested in using it, even tried it, but you literally made the Progress Bar/Slider a "dot"...  Thus, you made it UNUSABLE.
Jistme the NightBee - Orange to the level I want to blow my brains out.
Juke's Joint - This wasn't at the Plugins Website, I'll look for it.
Sportura Pinstripe - Also not at the website.

Sting - Okay, this one I DID miss (think it seemed too "grey", and the text too grey (aka not enough "contrast between elements), just tried it, and I would prefer the buttons actually showing, that's just irritating, and indeed, not enough contrast, though, this one "could" be usable, just I prefer more contrast so I can actually "see" things.  But, I could use it if I absolutely had to, though, still don't like the progress bar being so small, you've removed the "enlarge progress bar" function, but it's usable at least.
The Blue Bee and the Sea - ALL BLUE...  seriously?
Tron Punk - While interesting for fun, not useful for long-term use.  Contrasts are just too much.
Tweakers Bee (At Night) - This one might be usable Not into the green and red contrasts are just too much.  But, I might have used this, but you can't position the Progress Bar on the "Top" nor enlarge it.  The progress bar being at the "bottom" is my biggest complaint of all the default skins.  It's just not at all a "practical" design like I address in the OP.

Void Black - Looks like I missed this one...  It's actually almost perfect.  I could actually use this one.  I want to congratulate you on this one!   :-*
However, there ARE some changes I would need done.
1. Would like the "Music Note" Icon to be RED, as I mentioned in my OP.
2. The "Text" needs to be a bit "whiter".  It's a "little" too "grey"...
3. Really don't like the Play Button being on the "Top" like that, would prefer them all being in the same Row and the Play Button be at the end.
4. Would also like the option to put the Progress Bar at the Top and to Enlarge it if possible potentially.  Also, would like to see the progress bar "Notch".  It's just a nice thing, and it helps know your spacing in that section.

That's it, if you make these improvements this might literally be the BEST skin we have...   :P   I've tried/looked at them all.

Now, as to #4...  I want people to notice something.  You've without realizing it provided the "proper spacing" from the bottom Border of MusicBee with the Progress Bar.
In other words, what I address above with there being a spacing problem with the progress bar in almost ALL default skins in relation to being FAR too close to the bottom border, you've actually addressed the issue EXACTLY how I'm asking it to be fixed.
Do you see and feel the visual and usability difference between your progress bar and the default skins?  I hope so people now do...



Your progress bar is usable, the default skins with it being completely on the bottom (which it's supposedly "middle" LOL) is entirely UNUSABLE.

Void Blue, Void Green, Void Red - More unusable color craziness, everything one color.
Zen Hive - Likely fun for Holloween, but not for regular use.

In conclusion...  I appreciate your work, as you do you get better, but like I said originally, basically NONE of your dark skins are usuable, save as I've already addressed above.
No offense intended, cause I know you put work in, and what people do becomes personal to them, but this is simply my view as a power user with things, a perfectionist, who's familiar with website design for example in how designers don't do proper contrasts with elements, etc.  You've done similar, not in all cases as mentioned, but just throwing "colors" into something isn't proper "skin" creation methodology.  It's about "design" and artistry.  You've done some as I've addressed, and well done.  But improvements are needed.

You wanted to know "why" I said what I said, since you had to respond, so I've addressed my observations to you, so you can understand where I'm coming from in my judgment.
Take care...
Last Edit: October 11, 2021, 04:22:47 AM by leeuniverse

leeuniverse

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A lot to unpack here...
(Most) people read left-to-right, so controls in any program are arranged left-to-right. It has nothing to do with left- or right-handedness.
Taskbar buttons are added from the left, menus are in the top-left of the program window, browser tabs are on the left...
You could trace this all the way back to Xerox PARC.

Yes, I'm aware of the concept...  However, in this case I feel the Play Buttons simply belong on the Right, due to the common use of the player is in a "larger" formatted window, or in the middle if the bar is a "larger" one similar to how MediaMonkey does it.

Quote
Shift-click on the Pause button will perform a Stop command.

Okay, I still like to have a Stop Button.  The skin I'm using above has it too "small".

If you have a particular skin you like but want to tweak, ask the author of that skin, or tweak it yourself.
You don't get to say something will look good for ALL skins - you immediately contradict yourself by admitting that this isn't true.
The point of skins is to change the program's appearance. Having a built-in setting that can't be changed defeats the purpose.

I know, I'm just speaking about problems and improvements that should occur with the default skins.  This thread isn't about "skinning" in general or what I would personally like.
I've been a web designer for 30 years, and the "black" Audio Icon just doesn't provide good viewability and contrast.  A RED one would.
I said for most of the default skins which are either White or Black/Grey. The Red Icon would work well.  Obviously there are exceptions and I'm speaking "in general".

Who said I was asking for a "built-in setting that can't be changed"?

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I'm not sure what you're asking here, but have you looked at the highlight playing tracks settings in the Now Playing Preferences? They might help.

That was exactly what I was looking for...  Weird it being a "setting" though and not just the default functioning.  LOL
Though, I guess somebody didn't want it to highlight if they were messing with other files in the playlist, so they asked/wanted it to be a setting?

Thanks  :)

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Apparently not.

Seriously?  You just "needed" to say that?  Obviously, I'm talking about other things that I find MusicBee being superior over MediaMonkey or otherwise that I'm not discussing here.
That doesn't mean there can't be improvements still...  I know what I like and want and to be able to do, so I'm addressing and reporting such.
It's what this place is for...

Quote
Emphasis is mine, but consider how this looks when a few days after registering on the forum you start speaking on behalf of 1000s of other people, many of whom have been using MusicBee for almost a decade.

Well, the new skins hasn't been "for a decade", they appear to be fairly new...  So, I'm reporting the biggest problem I had on using the program in relation to the skins.
As well, I'm 50 years old, have been using programs for a LONG TIME...  I know what works and doesn't work, etc.  I'm reporting my initial observations and issues.
That's all...

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If nothing else, I can assure you that this change would not be fine with everyone.

Obviously, I'm using the "royal" everyone...  Being able to SEE what's happening IS in my view something "everyone" would like.  Proper Contrasts between elements, the lack of them, is a pet peeve of mine.
While the Red Icon isn't a "huge" deal, it's just a little peeve that I wanted to throw in since I was talking about a really big issue, the progress bar, the lack of proper spacing and size elements.

Quote
Immediately jumping online to complain about the stuff you don't like as a self-admitted newbie, isn't especially helpful.
For one, maybe it just takes a little getting used to - maybe after a few more weeks what you thought was a major issue isn't an issue at all.
For two, as pointed out, the actual click target is larger than what is displayed. Pixel-precision clicking is not required.
For three, try replacing the progress bar with a wavebar control, which has a configurable height and is arguably more useful because it also displays the song structure.

Like I said, I'm fine with how I've configured the ABOVE Theme and settings...  But I'm addressing an actual problem.
Further, like I said above...  I'm NOT a "newbie" when it comes to using programs, etc.  So, you can claim I'm "not being helpful", completely discounting my perspective if you want, but THAT is "not helpful".
I'm addressing first-come obvious problems...  Thank heavens I found the setting to put the progress bar on the TOP and Enlarge it...  So, I'm happy now...
That doesn't change the FACT that the bottom bar has problems in the latest skin revisions...  So, I'm reporting the problems, and then Devs can choose to address them or not.

Quote
tldr; Suggestions for improvement are welcome - and sometimes vigorously debated - but this reads like a list of demands.

Believe what you will...  I don't "demand" things being new to a program, I report my experience...  That's what I did here.
It always fascinates me how some people are so "protective", unwilling to see other perspectives and experiences.  I told my experience, that's my truth.  I can't help it if you don't like it.

hiccup

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You wanted to know "why" I said what I said, since you had to respond…

You are wrong again.

I have no interest in your opinions on my skins.
Let alone your 'judgements' on them.

I only replied because you wrote that I do not have dark themed skins with player controls on the right side.

After I told you that all my dark themed skins have them on the right side.

So in you saying that, you implied that I was either lying, or that I don't know my own skins.

That's why I needed to correct your false statement by listing my 14 dark themed skins that have the player controls on the right side.

Not for your convenience, but to correct your false statement and suggestions.
And to possibly help and inform other users that run into this cringeworthy thread and are interested in such skins.
 

phred

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A Sophisticated Bee (At Night) - Entirely RED, I don't find such a thing usable.
Elemental - Was likely the ONLY contender, was actually interested in using it, even tried it, but you literally made the Progress Bar/Slider a "dot"...  Thus, you made it UNUSABLE.
(and on and on and on...)

From the list you've posted about each skin and what you don't like about them, I suggest you either modify the skin to change the color(s) or create your own. And I certainly don't expect a skin developer to make the changes for you because you find them unusable. If they're unusable to you, then change them. There's no copyright on them.

To be fair, I have seen some skin developers accept a request to make a 'lighter' or 'darker' version of a skin. Or to change a color of a particular element. But those requests have come from users who don't seem to be 'demanding' that changes be made.

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Now, as to #4...  I want people to notice something.  You've without realizing it provided the "proper spacing" from the bottom Border of MusicBee with the Progress Bar.
I've used many of hiccup's skins over the years and have not had any issue with spacing. As for it being 'proper' that's a subjective opinion. What's proper for you  isn't proper for me. Just the same with your comments about a skin being "entirely red." Or "ALL BLUE...  seriously?" If you don't like the skin color, don't use it. Or change it. You've had thirty years of web design. Transfer those skills to skin design.
Last Edit: October 11, 2021, 02:25:42 PM by phred
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Bee-liever

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I've been a web designer for 30 years
Please leeuniverse, put those skills to use and create a skin that embodies all those attributes that you have suggested.
I would really like to see the results.
MusicBee and my library - Making bee-utiful music together

leeuniverse

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Okay, so people can't take constructive criticism...  What's new.

So hiccup...  I've stated my observations, and further, I can't be called a "liar" or speaking "falsely" since my statement had qualifications.
I originally stated I quote: "Also, I checked out your skins and basically, NONE of your dark skins have the Play Group on the right side, so that didn't work for me.
But again, thanks for trying to help.
"

So, the word "basically." would include skins that just didn't work well, being all one color, no proper contrasts, etc....  As well, the words "so that didn't work for me" also addresses flaws I saw with your skins.   I wasn't trying to say you had no buttons on the right side with dark skins, I was saying that they had issues and were not usable for me.  I could have been a little more clear in my statement to not confuse you, but it is what it is.
Since you discounted my statement with a "list" of your skins, I then explained what was wrong with each one of them, why they didn't work (save what I said might work), in other words WHY I said what I said.

Anyway, you can take what I've said "negatively" if that's what you like to do in life, or you can improve from my observations.  I explained what worked and what didn't work and WHY.  This is not "personal" for me, I professionally explained the problems, you and others choose to engage in personal attacks.

Simple...  Enjoy.  My statements still stand because I've explained in "detail" what's problematic about the default skins per my OP etc.
Others here, all they've done is just say "that's your opinion or preference, and you suck for having such"....  Well, those aren't arguments.
I've addressed "functional problems" in what I've stated....  If none of you can't understand the difference between functional issues and "preferences" then okay, whatever.

And to repeat myself again, the Progress Bar being FAR TOO CLOSE to the bottom border of the player, and is so small that it's hard to click on, ARE "functional problems".

I'm dealing with issues here...  Sure, I mentioned some "preferences" also which btw are also functional in nature (i.e. being able to "see" what's going on, i.e. what's playing)  But, those were secondary issues, not the primary issues I was addressing.
I get I'm intruding on your "home", and you don't like it, but my being the only one speaking out doesn't make a non-existent issue.  I've explained in DETAIL WHY they are issues, so you can understand those points, or choose not to.
Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 06:53:57 PM by leeuniverse

hiccup

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So hiccup...  I've stated my observations, and further, I can't be called a "liar" or speaking "falsely" since my statement had qualifications.
Well…

Also, I checked out your skins and basically, NONE of your dark skins have the Play Group on the right side, so that didn't work for me.
This simply is a false statement.
And I needed to corrected it.

You could have said something like "I am not able to find any of your dark skins with player controls on the right side, could you please help me?"
Nope. Not you.

Okay, so people can't take constructive criticism...  What's new.
I and most contributing forum members do accept and use constructive critisism from other members.
Check out some skin threads and you can see that for yourself.
Or plugin threads.
Or threads on MusicBee's development.

But you seem to be in some mental state where you are convinced that your tastes and opinions are the absolute and superior truth.
There is a word for that. But this is not the forum for that subject.

There is no constructive criticism in your posts.
You have not spotted and reported one single actual issue with any of my skins.
All you do is trying to dictate your personal preferences on to others.

A skin of mine has a round dot as progress indicator. BAD!!!!
One skin has higher contrast. BAD!!!
One has lower contrast. BAD!!!
One is blue. BAD!!!
One is red. BAD!!!
(it's actually brown, so perhaps have your computerscreen or your eyes checked?)

And, this was really a killer for me:
One of my skins has the progressbar at a vertical position that you seem to like.
And your comment on it was that I hadn't realised myself I had accidentally done something right.
What a joke.

Anyway, you can take what I've said "negatively" if that's what you like to do in life, or you can improve from my observations.
Taking life lessons from you? You are funny.
Learning from you how to lecture others in a moralising and superior manner? Forcing and dictating my personal preferences on to others?
No thank you.

I honestly hope that you are still in your teens.
Then it may not be too late to improve your character before you get mature.
 

leeuniverse

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Nothing but personal attacks...  Not going to bother to respond.  I gave my views in a professional way, I get nothing but personal attacks.

Enjoy your lives.  Heaven forbid anyone contradicts your opinions.