MQA files

[finvarra]

I'm enjoying Musicbee - it's the best player I've found. However, a friend sent me a few MQA files and I've been unable to play them. (They work perfectly on other programs - eg, f2k.) Am I missing some setting - is there a fix - or is it impossible to make them work? Thanks.

[Steven]

could you PM me a link to a zip of one file?

[sveakul]

FWIW, I downloaded a file identified as "MQA - 24-bit, 352.8 kHz Sampling - Encoded as 24bits/44.1 kHz FLAC (35.9MB)" from one of the samples on the page here https://www.oppodigital.com/hra/dsd-by-davidelias.aspx and MusicBee played it fine, but my understanding of MQA is less than clear.  While in a FLAC wrapper, MediaInfo identifies the Writing application as: "MQAEncode v1.1, 2.1.0+302 (44d0018), DF77A107-A71F-4e57-A322-872C6D0E99C8, Jun 03 2016 14:32:38."

[vincent kars]

MQA is a lossy compression technique, kind of highres version of MP3
A MQA manifest itself as a PCM audio file. Hence you can pack it in any lossless PCM audio format e.g. WAV, AIFF, FLAC, APE, etc as long as it is a lossless format.
If you do “nothing”, it plays as a 24 bit  44.1 kHz pcm audio file.
If you use MQA enabled software, it is expanded to 24 bits 88.2 PCM. As the bits below 17 are used to store the higher frequencies (44.1 allows for 22 max), it is effectively a 17 bits / 88.2 file.
If the watermark is detected by a MQA enabled DAC, the DAC will apply minimum phase filters and upsamples to 352.
So if you have a non-MQA compliant DAC doing minimum phase filtering and upsampling, you have MQA without paying the price 😊

Anyway, its first stage ( 24/44.1) should play regardless.
That is probably why Steve want to “see” it.

[sveakul]

Thanks for the concise explanation, vincent!

[finvarra]

sneakul - the sample link also played for me... so I'm wondering if it's the way these files (I believe they originated from Tidal) were encoded.

My output is WASAPI (shared) and the sound device is Speakers (AudioQuest DragonFly Red).  Any suggestions about any other settings I might try?

[sveakul]

finvarra:  the best bet would be to supply Steven with a link to one of the files uploaded somewhere.  It might also be helpful if you would copy and post what MediaInfo shows on the problem files.  For the heckuvit, if you change to WASAPI-Exclusive is there any difference?

[finvarra]

I did send Steven a zip of one of the problem files. What happens is: when I click on the file, MusicBee not only doesn't play  it, but doesn't even list it (so I can't give you the MediaInfo). However, the same file does work without incident with F2k, Jriver and AIMP. Interesting. And, no, changing it to Exclusive doesn't help.

However, now that I know, that MQA is sort of glorified MP3, I'll just stick to normal FLACs.

[sveakul]

If you have MediaInfo installed (https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo) you don't need to have MusicBee open to run it on the file, just locate the file in Windows File Explorer, right-click on it and choose "MediaInfo" from the context menu (assuming you installed it with the shell option as most do).  Now that you got us all curious(!), let's at least find out what the problem was and it will help others down the road.  Besides, I HATE mysteries  

[finvarra]

Just installed MediaInfo... not sure what you want to see,,, so please let me know if I should look somewhere else...



General
Complete name                            :
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                           : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size                                  : 31.4 MiB
Duration                                 : 3 min 15 s
Overall bit rate mode           : Variable
Overall bit rate                      : 1 348 kb/s
Album                                    : Fairytales - Original Master Edition (Mqa)
Album/Performer                  : Steve Dobrogosz / Radka Toneff
Part                                         : 1
Part/Total                               : 1
Track name                               : The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress
Track name/Position                      : 1
Track name/Total                         : 10
Performer                                : Steve Dobrogosz / Radka Toneff
Lyricist                                 : Jimmy Webb
Encoded by                               : Merging Technologies Album Publishing
Label                                    : ODIN Records
Recorded date                            : 2018-04-06
Writing application                      : MQAEncode v1.1, 2.3.2+667 (235bdab), DF77A107-A71F-4E57-A322-872C6D0E99C8, Jul 03 2017 10:51:54
ISRC                                     : NOFUA1761010
Copyright                                : (P) 2017 ODIN
Cover                                    : Yes
Cover type                               : Cover (front)
Cover MIME                               : image/jpg
Lyrics                                   : See her as she flies / Golden sails across the skies / Close enough to touch / But careful if you try / Though she looks as warm as gold / The moon's a harsh mistress / The moon can be so cold /  / Once the sun did shine / And Lord it felt so fine / The moon a phantom rose / Through the mountains and the pines / And then the darkness fell / The moon's a harsh mistress / It's hard to love her well /  / I fell out of his eyes / I fell out of his heart / I fell down on my face / I tripped and I missed my stars / And I fell and fell alone / The moon's a harsh mistress / The sky is made of stone /  / The moon's a harsh mistress / She's hard to call your own
Comment                                  : Generated by Merging Technologies Album Publishing / Label Code: ODIN Records
BARCODE                                  : 7033662095612
CATALOGNUMBER                            : 7033662095612
MQAENCODER                               : MQAEncode v1.1, 2.3.2+667 (235bdab), DF77A107-A71F-4E57-A322-872C6D0E99C8, Jul 03 2017 10:51:54
ORIGINALSAMPLERATE                       : 192000

Audio
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                              : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration                                 : 3 min 15 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 1 336 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Stream size                              : 31.1 MiB (99%)
Writing library                          : libFLAC 1.2.1 (UTC 2007-09-17)

[sveakul]

Thanks finvarra, that's the whole monte all right!  And there are differences from the one I played--FLAC sample rate, MQAencoder version, etc.  Hopefully someone like vincent kars can cue in on a few things there.  In the meantime, you were helpful enough to supply an actual example to Steven so I'm sure he'll check in with the prognosis soon.  In the meantime, enjoy MediaInfo, works great for video files too in looking "under the hood."

[Steven]

I have no problems at all loading or playing the file you sent.  As I understand MQA, it should be treated as a normal flac file (in this case) so I really have no ideas what the issue would be for you.
Can you play other normal flac files?

[Bee-liever]

MQA is a lossy compression technique, kind of highres version of MP3

It's kind of a hybrid lossless/lossy compression.
The lower frequencies are encoded lossless while the high frequencies are encoded in a lossy format and 'folded' into the lower 8-11 bits of the FLAC

Anyway, its first stage ( 24/44.1) should play regardless.

Except it's no longer a true 24/44.1 Flac as the lossy high-frequency compression isn't reversed without the licenced MQA decoder. In real quality terms it's about a 21/44.1 FLAC file.

[finvarra]

Steven, this is so weird. I moved the complete folder to my NAS and it worked perfectly. So even though the MQA files worked on those other players, something in Windows must have been preventing  them from working on my "C" drive with Musicbee. One of those unexplainable Windows kerfuffles.

At any rate, all's well now in MQA land.

Thanks so much for helping!

[The Incredible Boom Boom]

Steven, this is so weird. I moved the complete folder to my NAS and it worked perfectly. So even though the MQA files worked on those other players, something in Windows must have been preventing  them from working on my "C" drive with Musicbee. One of those unexplainable Windows kerfuffles.

Quite possibly a DRM issue?