Author Topic: A new forum board to help new users & relieve experienced contributing members  (Read 24419 times)

Coogan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
I hope you new mods don't decide to just ostracize a new member for asking a question, instead of them jumping directly to this part of the forum.

Coogan
My MusicBee Version:
3.5.8842

phred

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9299
I hope you new mods don't decide to just ostracize a new member for asking a question, instead of them jumping directly to this part of the forum.
Not including Steven, there are five people allowed to populate the new FAQ section. All are knowledgeable and seasoned users of MB. No forum member will be ostracized for asking questions. If what they're asking is in the FAQ, they will be told to check it. Personally I don't provide links because if/when a person is too lazy to look on their own, I'm not going to do the work for them. This assumes I know the topic is definitely in the FAQ.
Download the latest MusicBee v3.5 or 3.6 patch from here.
Unzip into your MusicBee directory and overwrite existing files.

----------
The FAQ
The Wiki
Posting screenshots is here
Searching the forum with Google is  here

psychoadept

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10691
Common threads could and should be moved from other boards into whatever their respective threads end up being in the FAQ. This could be done by moving each and every thread to their respective FAQ board, or combining threads with the same question into one thread and then moving it (my preference.) The main priority of the new board is stopping the influx of same question after same question, obviously, but cleaning up the other boards would also make things less of a mess.

I thought this was part of the point, too, which is why I immediately thought of the Virus/Trojan thread. It's one that has already been merged a few times to reduced the clutter.
MusicBee Wiki
Use & improve MusicBee's documentation!

Latest beta patch (3.5)
(Unzip and overwrite existing program files)

frankz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3834
IMO Hiccup has obviously thought this through, has a vision for it, and has spearheaded it.  While I have made my objection to the proposed format clear, and while I still maintain those objections, I think the sheer amount of work he has put into it affords him the space to see it through in the way he wants to see it through.  That vision doesn't include making it a repository or archive for old discussions that a user has to wade through to find their answer.

If it isn't working as intended once he gets it running the way he sees it, at that point I'm sure he'll be open-minded enough to adjust.

sveakul

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2438
IMO Hiccup has obviously thought this through, has a vision for it, and has spearheaded it.  While I have made my objection to the proposed format clear, and while I still maintain those objections, I think the sheer amount of work he has put into it affords him the space to see it through in the way he wants to see it through.  That vision doesn't include making it a repository or archive for old discussions that a user has to wade through to find their answer.

If it isn't working as intended once he gets it running the way he sees it, at that point I'm sure he'll be open-minded enough to adjust.

Agreed.

hiccup

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7781
Thanks guy, that's very nice and supportive of you.
But honestly: from the beginning of this I realised it was only an idea that could have complications I couldn't foresee.
It even started with only regarding 'Common issues' and it is now potentially becoming a much more encompassing FAQ.

I am only important here for having brought up an idea, and trying to think things through and discuss them to see if they would work and get accepted.
But I don't want to be responsible for any changes to the forum, nor for setting limitations or restrictions that others are not comfortable with.

I always understood it could not happen at all, or very differently from how I imagined it.
If a different implementation is decided on it's o.k. with me.
Even if the idea just gets dropped, and changes to the forum reverted, it's o.k. with me.
I won't be mad or sour in any way.
But I do think I have presented and explained my ideas on all this more than enough, and anybody invested has plenty food for thought on what to do next, so for now I am going to put energy in other things.
Anything that is going to be done is fine. Really.
Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 09:10:32 AM by hiccup

Bee-liever

  • Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3830
  • MB Version: 3.6.8830 P
Common threads could and should be moved from other boards into whatever their respective threads end up being in the FAQ. This could be done by moving each and every thread to their respective FAQ board, or combining threads with the same question into one thread and then moving it (my preference.) The main priority of the new board is stopping the influx of same question after same question, obviously, but cleaning up the other boards would also make things less of a mess.

I thought this was part of the point, too, which is why I immediately thought of the Virus/Trojan thread. It's one that has already been merged a few times to reduced the clutter.

I too thought that old threads would be moved and combined under a new FAQ item.  This would ensure that when searched for, the FAQ thread would be the main result found, rather than several posts scattered throughout the forum.
Especially if the older threads could be archived and only accessed from a link (maybe labelled as 'Read previous discussions here') within the corresponding FAQ entry.
MusicBee and my library - Making bee-utiful music together

frankz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3834
Common threads could and should be moved from other boards into whatever their respective threads end up being in the FAQ. This could be done by moving each and every thread to their respective FAQ board, or combining threads with the same question into one thread and then moving it (my preference.) The main priority of the new board is stopping the influx of same question after same question, obviously, but cleaning up the other boards would also make things less of a mess.


I thought this was part of the point, too, which is why I immediately thought of the Virus/Trojan thread. It's one that has already been merged a few times to reduced the clutter.


I too thought that old threads would be moved and combined under a new FAQ item.  This would ensure that when searched for, the FAQ thread would be the main result found, rather than several posts scattered throughout the forum.
Especially if the older threads could be archived and only accessed from a link (maybe labelled as 'Read previous discussions here') within the corresponding FAQ entry.


I honestly don't understand why anyone would have thought that considering the mission laid out in the OP (edited version below).  

What—in my opinion—could be very helpful to make this easier both on new MusicBee users, and on experienced contributing members, is if there would be a forum board called something like:

MusicBee's Ultimate Resource of Common Questions, Issues and Problems, and their Answers and Solutions

Yes, a lot of words, but google-search friendly ;-)

There could be several dedicated threads residing under it, such as:

[...]

The idea is to have a new forum board (MusicBee's Ultimate Resource of Common Questions, Issues and Problems, and their Answers and Solutions) containing separate threads per subject.
(such as the ones suggested above, printed in a bold font)

The start post of each thread should be dynamic, and updated to the latest available information and answers.

Thinking ahead; if this idea gets support and gets implemented, it would be good if the start post of each 'issue' thread could be edited and improved on by any forum member that has a certain experience/knowledge/track-record, and a drive to contribute and improve things.

psychoadept

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10691
But that specifically says the start post of each thread, which implies there would be other posts. Although on further thought I don't think there's a way to make a thread sort by anything other than date, so it would only work to merge new posts, unless we were going to take over and rewrite old posts. (There is a per-user setting to show newer posts first, though.)

Actually, in terms of keeping the start posts up to date I'd think it would be helpful to merge in new posts, because it would move the thread up (which would offset the "stale thread" problem to some degree) and because it would prompt the person doing the merge to add or change information as needed.
MusicBee Wiki
Use & improve MusicBee's documentation!

Latest beta patch (3.5)
(Unzip and overwrite existing program files)

The Incredible Boom Boom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1269
What's most effective at:
A. providing quick answers to common issues
B. cleaning up the board so common issues can be easily discovered

...without being time consuming as well?

I'm inclined to think navigating among various child boards as a new user would be a bit tedious and slightly negates point A, so I like what's already been done so far by @hiccup and @phred. We should expand on that, having as few child boards as possible and keeping the number of "issues" between one (preferable) to two pages. Important and common questions, like the annoying anti-virus alert one, could be stickied and then all threads related should be merged underneath @phred's blurb. And again, a big, beautiful note before posting a new topic specifying one should direct their attention to the FAQ before posting or their post will go ignored (or deleted.)

It's not that many of the answers to novice user's questions aren't here - they are! Hundreds of them! All these answers' accessibility is where things get hairy and what should be the point of the FAQ.

phred

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9299
Important and common questions, like the annoying anti-virus alert one, could be stickied and then all threads related should be merged underneath @phred's blurb.
As psychoadept already point out, this is not currently possible to do. The forum software sorts in date of creation only. So if we were to merge all the existing thread on the false positive AV (for example) my post would fall to the bottom. Our choices here are to rewrite to already posted threads (not efficient) or add to the FAQ topic post a link to (all? some?) of the already posted threads.

Quote
And again, a big, beautiful note before posting a new topic specifying one should direct their attention to the FAQ before posting or their post will go ignored (or deleted.)
That would be a waste of pixels. Look, for example, and the nicely created NOTICE near the top of the edit box for a post or reply. The one that gives instructions for adding a screenshot. And how often do you see posts where the user states, I wanted to add a screenshot, but I don't know how. And the comment for the Tips & Tricks section that says "no questions please." People are too lazy to read when they can just type away with their questions.
Download the latest MusicBee v3.5 or 3.6 patch from here.
Unzip into your MusicBee directory and overwrite existing files.

----------
The FAQ
The Wiki
Posting screenshots is here
Searching the forum with Google is  here

The Incredible Boom Boom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1269
As psychoadept already point out, this is not currently possible to do. The forum software sorts in date of creation only. So if we were to merge all the existing thread on the false positive AV (for example) my post would fall to the bottom.

Ok, I understand more clearly now. I thought he was referring to something else. The bloat of same question topics still could be moved to their respective child board?

Quote
That would be a waste of pixels. Look, for example, and the nicely created NOTICE near the top of the edit box for a post or reply. The one that gives instructions for adding a screenshot. And how often do you see posts where the user states, I wanted to add a screenshot, but I don't know how. And the comment for the Tips & Tricks section that says "no questions please." People are too lazy to read when they can just type away with their questions.

Precisely why those people shouldn't be indulged or enabled (either by ignoring their post, moving it to the new board or removing it.) If they can't figure out something extremely simple - like applying a screenshot on their own, especially with a well-written, fully thought out and complete guide (compliments to @psychoadept) - and are unwilling to put three words - this kind of crap - into DuckDuckGo or (ick...) Google, tough. I'm willing to help those who have unique or semi-unique issues, but - if the new board is ultimately the future of the forum - a heavier hand applied to people who ignore the new process should go along with it.
Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:42:42 PM by The Incredible Boom Boom

phred

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9299
I'm willing to help those who have unique or semi-unique issues, but - if the new board is ultimately the future of the forum - a heavier hand applied to people who ignore the new process should go along with it.
That's what makes this forum great. The older, established users are more than willing to help. But the novice needs to do a little work first. Search the FAQ, search the forum. Still not found? Ask. The users who post "I just downloaded MB and it doesn't work" aren't going to get much sympathy. Or help.
Download the latest MusicBee v3.5 or 3.6 patch from here.
Unzip into your MusicBee directory and overwrite existing files.

----------
The FAQ
The Wiki
Posting screenshots is here
Searching the forum with Google is  here

Zak

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2450
Each child board would only contain one well-composed and informative article covering the range of issues related to the child board's title.
Similar to the current FAQ:
https://getmusicbee.com/help/faq/
Huh. There's already an FAQ page?  I missed that one somehow.

It already looks better designed for Hiccup's original suggestion as I understand it.
My new question then is, why aren't the FAQs under consideration just added to the existing FAQ page, instead of trying to shoehorn them into a forum format that may or may not work? (and creating what is now the third online resource to address them)


I also skimmed over some discussion about whether someone asking a question that is covered in the FAQ forum (or FAQ page or wiki or wherever) should get a response or a cold shoulder.
Of course they should still get a polite answer - it won't be a great look for MusicBee if n00bs are ignored because they didn't use the secret knock.
I see the benefit being that the seasoned forum pros that answer the bulk of those questions can set up a little cheat sheet so they can just copy and paste a link to the response instead of having to retype an answer every time.
Bee excellent to each other...

phred

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9299
Huh. There's already an FAQ page?  I missed that one somehow.

My new question then is, why aren't the FAQs under consideration just added to the existing FAQ page, instead of trying to shoehorn them into a forum format that may or may not work? (and creating what is now the third online resource to address them)
Probably for the very same reason that you, and others, being long-time forum people, didn't know there was a FAQ

Quote
I also skimmed over some discussion about whether someone asking a question that is covered in the FAQ forum (or FAQ page or wiki or wherever) should get a response or a cold shoulder.
Of course they should still get a polite answer
Absolutely agree one hundred percent. All users should get a reply. Be it pointing to the FAQ or something more specific. And as is currently the case, -any- forum user can reply. We'd like as much help as we can get.
Download the latest MusicBee v3.5 or 3.6 patch from here.
Unzip into your MusicBee directory and overwrite existing files.

----------
The FAQ
The Wiki
Posting screenshots is here
Searching the forum with Google is  here