Author Topic: new computer requirements  (Read 4935 times)

MTVhike

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I'm thinking about getting a new computer (laptop) on which to run MusicBee. What specifications should I look for (other than speed, HD capacity, memory) to maximize sound quality. Such a computer might need a DAC - is this something I can identify in a laptop? And, does it make any difference? Also, output ports. My current computer uses an HDMI connector which goes to my TV (where the DAC is), and analog out from the TV to my amp (which doesn't have HDMI ports). I can use the headphone out, but that doesn't sound very good (probably a bad DAC in the computer). Do any PCs have optical outs, and would that be desirable if they do?

hiccup

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An external USB dac would be the way to go.
Optical is limited compared to modern USB dacs.
They vary from thumb-drive size, to larger ones with all sorts of outputs and probably better amplifier sections. (Important if you use very good headphones)

Smaller ones will have headphone output only, larger ones cinch, mini-jack, jack, balanced, etc.

And, be sure that your new laptop has an ssd drive. MusicBee will run much better on it compared to a HDD.

psychoadept

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I can't talk about dacs, but seconded on the SSD. So much faster.

And if you don't have one already, make sure you include a good backup system. I've lost too many irreplaceable tracks due to drives going bad. My current system includes two libraries ("working" library on my laptop and "archive" library on an external drive), one of which is backed up locally on a NAS and the other using cloud storage.
Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 09:08:10 PM by psychoadept
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MTVhike

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I've been using the DAC built into my computer, but I understand that they aren't too good. In looking over the lists of available DACs, many are only 2-channel. What kind of interface would provide my 5.1 output? I have 2 AVRs with 6 channel analog inputs (and one has HDMI), but I didn't see any DACs with that kind of output interface. I've heard people denigrate USB DACs, but what else is available? Also, some of the prices are ridiculous! There are many listed on a spreadsheet supplied by NativeDAD.com, and almost all of them have USB listed as the input interface. Some (many) are actually players, (such as the SONY UBP-X800), and the USB interface is to plug a USB drive into. I'm interested in something which can read the output from my PC; would I use a male-to-male USB cable?

vincent kars

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The major reason DACs are 2 channel is because almost all our audio is stereo hence 2 channel.
Do you have true 5.1 so 6 channel recordings on your PC?

Multi-channel DACs do exist : https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/MultiChannel.htm
But once again do you really have true 6 channel recordings?

Might it be that AVR’s produce 5.1 because there is a processor inside converting stereo to surround?

hiccup

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In looking over the lists of available DACs, many are only 2-channel.

That's because people usually buy them to improve the stereo sound quality for music.

Quote
What kind of interface would provide my 5.1 output? I have 2 AVRs
with 6 channel analog inputs (and one has HDMI), but I didn't see any DACs with that kind of output interface.

Doesn't the receiver that doesn't have hdmi have coaxial or optical digital inputs?
You could use those for surround, if you buy either a 'normal' usb dac that besides analogue outputs also has coax or optical out.
Or you could buy a simple usb to digital coax (and/or optical) convertor for that purpose alone.

Quote
I've heard people denigrate USB DAC's.

Those people don't know what they are talking about.
Or you heard that twenty years ago.

Quote
I'm interested in something which can read the output from my PC; would I use a male-to-male USB cable?

There do exist receivers and amplifiers that have a dedicated usb input to feed it's internal dac, so you can connect a computer to it.
Perhaps one of your receivers has that feature? (but it's not very common)

hiccup

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There is also some cheaper stuff that seems to be able to do what you are looking for.
E.g. https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x-fi-surround-5-1-pro
I am not a fan of that particular brand, but if you do some googling you should be able to find lots of dacs with similar features.
Also look at some Chinese brands such as SMSL, Topping, Gustard, and probably a few more that do have some interesting products in their line-ups.

MTVhike

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The major reason DACs are 2 channel is because almost all our audio is stereo hence 2 channel.
Do you have true 5.1 so 6 channel recordings on your PC?

Multi-channel DACs do exist : https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/MultiChannel.htm
But once again do you really have true 6 channel recordings?

Might it be that AVR’s produce 5.1 because there is a processor inside converting stereo to surround?

I don't have any multichannel recordings on my PC, but I recently discovered a source called NativeDSD, which creates and sells their own DSD files, either recorded in DSD or digitized from high-quality analog tapes. Many of those they recorded in DSD are available in many variants, including DSD64, 128, 256, and 512 in stereo, binaural, and 5.1 multichannel. On their website they list most DACS which can decode their products. They have a free sampler which I downloaded and put in my MusicBee library and I can play it, although it's not multichannel.

I want to be sure I can play these before I buy any (these downloads are not cheap!).

I do have several "multichannel" SACDs and DVD-As and two players that can play them. One player has analog outs, so I can play it on either AVR. The other is a Sony UBP-X800, which is on NativeDSD's list of acceptable DACs.
Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 01:01:45 PM by MTVhike

MTVhike

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What kind of interface would provide my 5.1 output? I have 2 AVRs
with 6 channel analog inputs (and one has HDMI), but I didn't see any DACs with that kind of output interface.

Doesn't the receiver that doesn't have hdmi have coaxial or optical digital inputs?
You could use those for surround, if you buy either a 'normal' usb dac that besides analogue outputs also has coax or optical out.
Or you could buy a simple usb to digital coax (and/or optical) convertor for that purpose alone.

Quote
I've heard people denigrate USB DAC's.

Those people don't know what they are talking about.
Or you heard that twenty years ago.

Quote
I'm interested in something which can read the output from my PC; would I use a male-to-male USB cable?

There do exist receivers and amplifiers that have a dedicated usb input to feed it's internal dac, so you can connect a computer to it.
Perhaps one of your receivers has that feature? (but it's not very common)
[/quote]

Yes, my 6 channel AVR does have both optical and coaxial inputs. I was also looking for a PC which has optical or coaxial audio outputs, but haven't found any yet.
Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 01:02:46 PM by MTVhike

hiccup

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Yes, my 6 channel AVR does have both optical and coaxial inputs. I was also looking for a PC which has optical or coaxial audio outputs, but haven't found any yet.

With PC you mean laptop?
That's why I suggested using a USB-to-S/PDIF convertor.

Learning that you are also interested in DSD and surround versions of that complicates giving you good advice immensely.
You will have to figure out how you want to make your connections, what features your dac should have (read: support for formats), and if you value the analogue sound quality, both for headphone and for low-level outputs.

Google is your friend...
Good luck and keep us posted?

MTVhike

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So clearly I'm a newbie here, but I did a little research which brought up some questions maybe someone here can answer. The inexpensive converter most commonly referred to was the Topping D10. It claims to handle DSD from 64 to 256, but no mention of multichannel. But my main confusion is that it is also a DAC (must be because it has analog outs). Is a DAC necessary to convert between these digital formats?

Still looking...

hiccup

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So clearly I'm a newbie here, but I did a little research which brought up some questions maybe someone here can answer. The inexpensive converter most commonly referred to was the Topping D10. It claims to handle DSD from 64 to 256, but no mention of multichannel. But my main confusion is that it is also a DAC (must be because it has analog outs). Is a DAC necessary to convert between these digital formats?

Still looking...

That's a USB DAC / USB SPDIF converter.

The dac part will convert the usb digital audio signal to the analogue cinch outputs.
The spdif converter part will do nothing in the analogue domain, and will just transfer the usb digital audio signal to the optical and coaxial outputs.

Windows (your new laptop) should simply recognize this USB device as a soundcard.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/dac/topping-d10-usb-dac-and-usb-spdif-converter-review/

MTVhike

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Thanks, Hiccup, that's what I thought. If I'm not trying to get analog out, does it matter what format the digital file is in for just "reformulating" it from USB to spdif and/or toslink? PCM, DSD, any bit rate, any number of channels? This is a multi step project: my computer has an HDMI out and two of my amps don't have HDMI in. In fact, right now, I'm using the Yamaha which does have the HDMI in with my computer (playing on MusicBee) and it sounds fine. Would I be better off going from HDMI to spdif/toslink or USB to spdif or toslink? I've seen reference the idea that either spdif or toslink have limitations.

hiccup

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Would I be better off going from HDMI to spdif/toslink or USB to spdif or toslink? I've seen reference the idea that either spdif or toslink have limitations.

That is threading into the esoteric audiophile domain.
Personally, in a general sense, for stereo audio I would prefer 1. Coaxial 2. HDMI 3. Optical
But unless you are (aiming to be) a hardcore audiophile, I wouldn't worry about it for a second.

I'm not well-versed in surround, but I am guessing hdmi would be best for that, coaxial second.

Formats, compatibility and technical implementations and restrictions are more important factors that will decide if you will even hear sound or not. Or if you will get (all different formats of) surround sound.
This also depends on the audio formats and sources of course.

I won't be able to help much more with this. But it shouldn't be hard to find a plethora of information, reviews, and other people's experiences on the web.

On a side note, the way this thread has developped makes it more suitable for the 'Beyond MusicBee' forum board.
But considering your interest in surround, you'll probably find better information and support on dedicated AV forums.