Author Topic: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list  (Read 6599 times)

Tommy

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After I posted I kinda figured that I did it in the wrong thread but it was already too late, sorry about that.
Tommy

hiccup

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Nonetheless I have 350 Metal subgenres remaining and not sure what to do with them:
https://bin.disroot.org/?d209a382fe992814#4USYyKmQ7zYefgbMgYwN9kLb18HwcNmLbjrZfTSZXLyP

I wouldn't consider those to be 350 subgenres.
It looks like something coming from Discogs? It looks like listings of separate subgenres concatenated in a single string divided by slashes?

When retrieving those and tagging your files with it it would be best to somehow get them splitted to the original an individual entered subgenres.
Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 05:24:55 PM by hiccup

alec.tron

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But there is a Discogs API :
And, there's also ready to use plugins using the above for MusicBee, as well as Foobar.

Thnx, I tried it (again) and immediately remembered why I quickly gave up and kind of forgot about it:
Discogs doesn't seem to have a grouping system for releases. (at least not where it concerns genres)
...
Have you figured something out that works for you and avoids manually checking several releases before applying genre tags?

Generally, it works for me... but for very different reasons. i.e. I set genre values by hand, and use discogs as a second set of data; and, most of the music I collect exists only on single / few different releases, and has a strong/enthusiastic discogs contributor community, which helps.


To explain why yhou are seeing what you are seeing, as genres can fluctuate and are subjective on discogs - that's one of the historically odd and/or grown decisions on discogs:
- Every 'release' (a medium, physical or digital) does need a genre/style set when you commit it to discogs (*and one could debate the point / sense in applying genre values on release level [album, EP, compilation, etc] only anyway...).
- Master Releases, which is the grouping you are wondering about if it exists, does exist as a concept/functionality, but has no concept of genres, or other release metadata in itself...
- Adding a release, and being forced to select genres for a release results in very different genre/style definitions (as it would, when different people with different interpretations of genre names do this in a community...)
- That inevitably leads to multiple, user committed releases of the same release with different genre definitions regularly unfortunately.


As an updside - discogs has released TRACKS (i.e. breaking down a release into single pieces on a medium), but, that was shelved about a year ago (as the implementation they've chosen wasn't scaling well... and had inherent issues.... see ) but, they promised it will make a comeback, in re-engineered form (but, that could take years... https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/803017).
Which means, one will be able to set genres on a single track version (and all it's duplicates)...

Bottom line is, genre definitions, especially on large volume / pop(ular) albums with lots of different releases, are a mess on discogs. The smaller the sub genres / styles, and the more active experienced users are contributing to specific sub genres/styles, the better the data...

c.
Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 07:57:40 PM by alec.tron

hiccup

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To explain why you are seeing what you are seeing…

Thanks for this great explanation alec.tron.
Looking at how much time it is taking organisations such as RYM and Discogs to get these things 'right' while they do have the ambition to, we will probably have to be very patient before all this genre and style stuff becomes some smooth sailing.

alec.tron

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Aye, just monitoring genre contributions on discogs releases is a sisyphean task... if you take on arguing about them (as what discogs is fairly good at to only allow data that is visible/printed on the release... and even that is cause enough for upsetting various tempers regularly), it becomes absolutely impossible (and why moderators do shy away from getting into arguments about) when genres are submitted with a release...

That's why I had high hopes for Tracks... but, even if that made a comeback (with genre values for single tracks, as that wasn't done on the first iteration either, but was planned to come) soon ish, it'll take years for the community to have populated these as well on a larger scale...

I have a hunch (and a secret hope) that there'll be ML driven approaches popping up in the next years, either through the large vendors, or through academia or startups/individuals... but, who knows what genre definitions/map/model/taxonomy they might train it on...

c.

hiccup

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Updated

Metal now has sub-categories:




- The Subgenre Tagger was updated accordingly (post #2)
- A Genre Category grouping list was added (see post #1)

Download links are in the startpost.

free bonus:
Some Crooner metal and some Cute metal
Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 06:07:22 PM by hiccup

hokusho

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I don't understand where I'm supposed to add these .txt files. Are they part of another plug-in?

psychoadept

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It's not a plugin, but you might need to update to the beta version (see my signature). The genre list is built in, but you can replace it or add new files in the AppData - TagHierarchyTemplates folder.  You can also edit them through the menu in the panel.
Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 05:39:24 PM by psychoadept
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hokusho

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It's not a plugin, but you might need to update to the beta version (see my signature). The genre list is built in, but you can replace it or add new files in the AppData - TagHierarchyTemplates folder.  You can also edit them through the menu in the panel.

I see, now it's working fine, but the directory the TagHierarchyTemplates folder showed up was Roaming > MusicBee. That's what confused me.

psychoadept

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It's not a plugin, but you might need to update to the beta version (see my signature). The genre list is built in, but you can replace it or add new files in the AppData - TagHierarchyTemplates folder.  You can also edit them through the menu in the panel.

I see, now it's working fine, but the directory the TagHierarchyTemplates folder showed up was Roaming > MusicBee. That's what confused me.

Yeah, it'll be in different places depending on the type of installation you have.
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Londinium

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Hi, a huge thanks for this great feature, I've been waiting for something like this for a long time!

For those interested by the RateYourMusic genres hierarchy, I've created a file with all the 1705 genres RYM currently has.  Their genres hierarchy might not be perfect (I think they are currently moving from a genres only system to a genres+descriptors system so it's a work in progress I guess) but it goes quite in the details, especially for the "Regional Music" top-level which has something around 7 nested levels.

Enjoy!

hiccup

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For those interested by the RateYourMusic genres hierarchy, I've created a file with all the 1705 genres RYM currently has.  Their genres hierarchy might not be perfect (I think they are currently moving from a genres only system to a genres+descriptors system so it's a work in progress I guess) but it goes quite in the details, especially for the "Regional Music" top-level which has something around 7 nested levels.

Thanks for sharing Londinium!

I have a question and a suggestion:

Q.
Where did you find these 1705 genres and it's hierarchy?
I am aware of this source, but it's slightly dated, and it has no hierarchies?:
https://pastebin.com/tr9DggBb

S.
This thread was intended for my 'Enhanced genre hierarchy' list/file.
It's great that other members such as you contribute here, so that's no problem at all.

But to maybe to give your creation some better attention, perhaps create a new separate thread called something like 'RYM genre hierarchy'?

Or don't, it's not that I have strong feelings on this.
Honestly, if you leave it like this it is great too.


psychoadept

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There's a thread here for collecting all the tag hierarchy files: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32978.0
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hiccup

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There's a thread here for collecting all the tag hierarchy files: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32978.0

Ah yes.
But perhaps a hierarchy for that topic is needed too?
If the number of contributions increase over time, they will be difficult to find in a single thread.

Londinium

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Where did you find these 1705 genres and it's hierarchy?
I am aware of this source, but it's slightly dated, and it has no hierarchies?:
https://pastebin.com/tr9DggBb

You can easily inspect API calls in your browser developer tools 😉

For your suggestion :

There's a thread here for collecting all the tag hierarchy files: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32978.0

Thanks! I wasn't aware of this specific thread, I've found this one while looking in the changelog.  I've reposted here.