Author Topic: Sorting in static playlists  (Read 2516 times)

SHF

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[using MB 3.2.6902 on Windows 7 & 10]

Hello. Firstly, let me say that MB is amazing - a thousand thanks for this amazing programme.

However, there's one thing that drives me absolutely nuts, and it seems to be a topic which comes up fairly often but I've never yet seen a solution which works for me. Does anybody know a way to make a specific sorting choice stick for a static playlist? I have different playlists that I want sorted by different criteria - I honestly can't see that this is surprising, as it seems the most natural thing in the world.

I've tried right-clicking on the playlist node, editing the playlist properties, editing the playlist directly, etc. None of this works for me, the chosen sorting method doesn't stick - if I change sorting method on another playlist, it changes them all (the exact behaviour seems slightly more complex, but it's something like that).

Now I know that Steven has explained that such behaviour is the MB default - but I'm not sure why. Steven has written (20 Jan 2013) "each static playlist having its own fields and sorting its something i really hate myself in other players", but that seems to be a surprisingly extreme position. If someone really feels that way surely can't they just set all their playlists to sort the same way? In the same post Steven goes on to say "You can edit any playlist and set it so it maintains its own fields/ sorting and views" - it's this that I can't get to work. I've followed the instructions repeatedly, but it doesn't stick.

Has anybody out there in the MB community found a way of making such sorting stick (I particularly need to sort by sort title, manual order & sort artist), or is there some kind of work-around or modification? I'm a music professional, and can't do my job properly if I end up listening to the album tracks in the wrong order because MB changed the sorting behind my back yet again... :)

Thanks. Look forward to hearing from someone!

Simon

Pingaware

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Can you explain exactly what steps you're following SHF? Hopefully we'll then be able to offer advice. I have an idea of what you need to do in mind, but need to make sure it will work first.
Bold words in my posts are links unless expressly stated otherwise.

Freddy Barker

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Has anybody out there in the MB community found a way of making such sorting stick (I particularly need to sort by sort title, manual order & sort artist), or is there some kind of work-around or modification? I'm a music professional, and can't do my job properly if I end up listening to the album tracks in the wrong order because MB changed the sorting behind my back yet again... :)

I have about 60 Auto-playlists that are mostly different as "default" and 12 of them I want the same so I use "GROUP".

I never use static playlists but not sure if you could create one to suit your requirements and then make read only - I may try later when at my PC, alternatively perhaps you could experiment with an auto-playist, then save a static version from the dialogue screen...

frankz

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View the playlist
Sort the playlist the way you want
Right click the playlist in playlist explorer->List->Update Play Order
Repeat for each static playlist

Freddy Barker

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View the playlist
Sort the playlist the way you want
Right click the playlist in playlist explorer->List->Update Play Order
Repeat for each static playlist

Good MB knowledge @frankz

I've looked and wondered about that option for a while - I guess as I'm an auto-playlist only guy, that's why its 'greyed out' ??

frankz

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Good MB knowledge @frankz

I've looked and wondered about that option for a while - I guess as I'm an auto-playlist only guy, that's why its 'greyed out' ??
I think it's because each auto-playlist gets its own static sort so you don't need that option - you just sort it and it stays that way.

SHF

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Thanks for the responses everyone, I'll try and reply to them all.

Pingaware: I have a static playlist - I want to set a specific sort order for it, e.g. using 'sort title'. I then want it to just stay with that sorting, regardless of what I do to other playlists, whether I close & reopen MB, whether I add or remove songs to/from the playlist, etc. I might change this sort order to something else, either temporarily or permanently, but whatever sort order I choose I want it to stick.

I've tried right-clicking on the playlist node, as suggested elsewhere by Steven, and selecting 'custom fields...' in the playlist settings. This is supposed to make the sort settings stick, but it doesn't work for me.

Freddy Barker: I don't want to make the playlist read-only, because I want to be able to add or remove items from it or otherwise change it, and presumably this wouldn't be possible. I just want the sorting option I choose for a playlist to stick.

Frankz: Updating the play order does exactly that - it updates the play order. It doesn't make whatever sorting option you've chosen stick (at least not for me) - although it does provide a sort of snapshot of the current sort. But if you add or remove a track, or change sorting on another playlist, the sorting sometimes changes. What I want is to sort a playlist a certain way and for it to stay sorted that way regardless of what else happens - until I change it to something else. Updating the play order, and then using 'manual order' to re-sort with seems even less efficient than having to check the sorting order every time you look at the playlist...

So my question is still the same, and it seems incredible to me that this is such a thing. Why can't I sort each playlist the way I want, and then forget about it? As I mentioned in my original post, Steven seems to be against this idea, but surely someone out there must have worked out a way around it. Or has anybody else found that the 'custom fields' option fixes the sort order permanently as Steven suggests? It certainly doesn't for me.

Thanks, Simon

Freddy Barker

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Freddy Barker: I don't want to make the playlist read-only, because I want to be able to add or remove items from it or otherwise change it, and presumably this wouldn't be possible. I just want the sorting option I choose for a playlist to stick.

So my question is still the same, and it seems incredible to me that this is such a thing. Why can't I sort each playlist the way I want, and then forget about it? As I mentioned in my original post, Steven seems to be against this idea, but surely someone out there must have worked out a way around it. Or has anybody else found that the 'custom fields' option fixes the sort order permanently as Steven suggests? It certainly doesn't for me.

I made a small static playlist, and clicked on the header of the GENRE column,  which then sorted the tracks into alphabetical order of the Genre..
Played a few of the tracks.
Closed and restarted MB
Nothing had change except those that had been played had today's Date and Time in Last Played...
Maybe I'm not fully understanding your predicament...

Freddy Barker

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Good MB knowledge @frankz

I've looked and wondered about that option for a while - I guess as I'm an auto-playlist only guy, that's why its 'greyed out' ??
I think it's because each auto-playlist gets its own static sort so you don't need that option - you just sort it and it stays that way.

@SHF

With reference to the @frankz comment here, I'm strictly an Auto-playlist user - it's just more powerful.
So! to do what you want, I would probably make a playlist named "Favourites" with "Grouping contains FAV" in the criteria, then for all the tracks I wanted to include add FAV to the Grouping Tag.
A bit fiddly perhaps, but does the job and functions as you would expect!
Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 10:39:46 PM by Freddy Barker

frankz

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Frankz: Updating the play order does exactly that - it updates the play order. It doesn't make whatever sorting option you've chosen stick (at least not for me) - although it does provide a sort of snapshot of the current sort. But if you add or remove a track, or change sorting on another playlist, the sorting sometimes changes. What I want is to sort a playlist a certain way and for it to stay sorted that way regardless of what else happens - until I change it to something else. Updating the play order, and then using 'manual order' to re-sort with seems even less efficient than having to check the sorting order every time you look at the playlist...
Ah, I see what you're saying now.  No, I don't think you can do that.  Maybe make a wishlist for it or +1 an existing request?

But what you're asking for is, essentially, an auto-playlist: A static playlist that auto-updates each time the underlying data changes.  This can easily be accomplished by basing an auto-playlist on each of the playlists you want to sort in this way

In that respect, I understand why static playlists are the way they are and why Steven wants to keep them that way.  Playlists are, at their core, lists of songs added or manually arranged into a particular order to be played in that particular order.  That's the concept of a playlist, regardless of what we want them to be or how we want to use them.  If you sort them a particular way to review what's there, you want to easily get back to the play list order with little chance of messing up that natural order.  Natural order (i.e. order added or how you drag them around afterward to order them for play) should be the sticky thing when you think about what playlists are meant to be.  

Static playlists are read from static files, not regenerated every time they are sorted for viewing purposes.  To do that would result in more playlist corruption than we already see, which seems to be a fair amount already based on forum posts.

So, yeah, my suggestion would be to base an auto-playlist on each of the playlists for which you want to automatically manage the sort order.  I wouldn't expect the wishlist request to go too far if you make it as it appears to be a settled issue.

SHF

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Thanks again everyone....

Freddy Barker: if you want to replicate what I'm describing, open 2 or 3 static playlists in tabs and sort each of them according to different criteria. Usually, if you change the sort on one of the playlists, it will affect the others too (although not always, it's hard to figure out exactly). If you right-click a track in one playlist and use the 'add to playlist' option to add it to one of the other playlist, the sorting of the playlist you've added it too will usually change. Pin the tabs, and then close and re-open MB; this sometimes changes the sorting you've set too. If you're interested in what I'm experiencing, explore these kind of scenarios and see what you can find out...

Freddy Barker (2nd comment): I think what you're suggesting here is the same as frankz (see below).

frankz: thanks for these helpful observations. Perhaps I do need to investigate auto-playlists, and see if they are nearer to what I want. I've avoided them thus far because according to the wiki "Auto-playlists are so named because they generate their content automatically, although you do have some manual control over which tracks appear". Essentially, I don't want any content to be generated automatically, I want to be in control myself of what I add to the playlist and when. But maybe I'm getting myself tied up over a form of words - I'll investigate, and if I can make an automatic playlist which only does what I want it to (!), that might be the answer. As you suggest, I'll try making an auto-playlist which mirrors the contents of the static lists, but which might give me more control over sorting. Thanks again for the suggestion.

OK. I'll go away and work on this - if I find anything of interest, I'll let you know.

Simon

SHF

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OK - I just spent some time trying out the auto-playlist option. I get exactly the same results. If I set sorting by the 'sort title' tag (which is what I want to use), when I close MB and re-open, the playlist goes back to 'manual order'. If I open a second tab for another playlist, change the sorting there, the sorting in the original playlist goes back to 'manual order' (sometimes). If I add a track to the static playlist upon which the auto-playlist is based (hope you're following me), the auto-playlist sort order goes back to 'manual order'.

This is not the behaviour which frankz and others seems to believe I should be seeing, so can anyone explain to me what's going on here? This is getting beyond my patience. All I want is a track list where I can choose how it's sorted, and for that sorting to stick until I change it. I hate to say it, but [iTunes] doesn't seem to have a problem with this.

And just to pick up on frankz's point, I have some playlists which are just a list of songs in an order I want to play them. Of course here defaulting to 'manual order' makes perfect sense. But I have other 'playlists' which are a list of songs which fulfill particular criteria, and which I can sort for reference in whatever way I choose. I know - that's more like a database than a 'playlist', so if you can suggest a better way of doing that I'd love to hear it.

Thanks, Simon

Freddy Barker

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Thanks again everyone....
Freddy Barker: if you want to replicate what I'm describing, open 2 or 3 static playlists in tabs and sort each of them according to different criteria. Usually, if you change the sort on one of the playlists, it will affect the others too (although not always, it's hard to figure out exactly). If you right-click a track in one playlist and use the 'add to playlist' option to add it to one of the other playlist, the sorting of the playlist you've added it too will usually change. Pin the tabs, and then close and re-open MB; this sometimes changes the sorting you've set too..

I may do some experimenting later today to see what's happening and investigate if there is a way around it, other than that,  @frankz good advice is probably the best you're going to get, at least for now, especially as @Steven has already commented.. However its also possible that he could reconcider after reading this thread!

frankz

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OK - I just spent some time trying out the auto-playlist option. I get exactly the same results. If I set sorting by the 'sort title' tag (which is what I want to use), when I close MB and re-open, the playlist goes back to 'manual order'. If I open a second tab for another playlist, change the sorting there, the sorting in the original playlist goes back to 'manual order' (sometimes). If I add a track to the static playlist upon which the auto-playlist is based (hope you're following me), the auto-playlist sort order goes back to 'manual order'.

This is not the behaviour which frankz and others seems to believe I should be seeing, so can anyone explain to me what's going on here? This is getting beyond my patience. All I want is a track list where I can choose how it's sorted, and for that sorting to stick until I change it. I hate to say it, but [iTunes] doesn't seem to have a problem with this.
You set the display view in the auto-playlist setup screen at the upper right with a setting descriptively entitled "Display using this view."  If you temporarily override this when viewing the playlist, it will go back to how it's set in the playlist settings the next time it is loaded because you've told it in its own settings that this is the view you want.  If you want to change the sorting/view, you do it in the settings.  If the sorting/grouping you want isn't a preset, sort/group the way you want, create a custom view, and set that custom view next to "Display using this view" in the settings.

However, if you like the way iTunes does it better, that software is still available.

EDIT: LOL - I just noticed that this option has now been implemented at some point for static playlists, too, provided they're musicbee (mpb) playlists.  So this entire discussion is moot.  Just set it in the playlist settings and the sort/view will stick for that playlist only.

But I have other 'playlists' which are a list of songs which fulfill particular criteria, and which I can sort for reference in whatever way I choose. I know - that's more like a database than a 'playlist', so if you can suggest a better way of doing that I'd love to hear it.
You are describing an auto-playlist.
Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 12:41:08 PM by frankz

Freddy Barker

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Can't comment on Eye-toons as ditched it years ago.

This is a test sample auto-playlist, as per @franz suggestion, the bold section (I think) deals with sort order, and the resultant listing is always the same...(no reason I can conjure up could explain why you seem to get different results!)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<SmartPlaylist SaveStaticCopy="False" LiveUpdating="True" Layout="0" CustomSettingsName="GROUPS" LayoutGroupBy="0" ShuffleMode="None" ShuffleSameArtistWeight="0.5" MinimumArtistGap="0" GroupBy="track" ConsolidateAlbums="False" MusicLibraryPath="D:\MusicBee\Library\">
  <Source Type="1">
    <Description />
    <Conditions CombineMethod="All">
      <Condition Field="Grouping" Comparison="Contains" Value="DEMO" />
    </Conditions>
    <Limit FilterDuplicates="False" Enabled="True" Count="100" Type="Items" SelectedBy="LeastRecentlyPlayed" />
    <SortBy Field="30" Order="Ascending" />

  </Source>
</SmartPlaylist>