How to Use Auto DJ to play compositions rather than single tracks

[ArthurDaniels]

Hi Gang,

I have a tag called "composition" in my music files.  Since most of my music is classical, the composition tag is very important because most classical pieces occupy more than one track.

I want to be able to use MusicBee's Auto DJ feature to select and play random compositions, which may include many tracks.

Is there a way to do so?

Thanks,

Art

[psychoadept]

One way is to group compositions by selecting all the tracks and going to Settings in the Tag Editor, where you can tick the "Keep tracks in order when shuffling" box.  You'll have to do it for each piece, but you only have to do it once.

You could also use the "select by album" setting, if you add composition to your album definition in sort/grouping preferences.  Less work, but might have undesired consequences in other places.

[ArthurDaniels]

Hello Psychoadept,

Thanks for your reply.  Neither of the two options you mention are appealing.  Perhaps Steve can take a look at the Auto DJ feature and add the capability to select by Composition.  I know that it is possible because I can already do so within MusiCHI (the other program I use to catalogue and play music).  I realize the comparison between programs is a bit unfair because MusiCHI is not free.

By way of explanation for anyone who might be interested --- I created a Custom Tag called Composition.  Then, I added the name of each composition to this field.  For classical works which contain multiple tracks, I use the Composition name in that field for all related tracks.  When I sort the database by Composition, all tracks related to a specific composition are grouped in sequence.

MusiCHI has the Composition field included in its base structure because the program was developed specifically to enable comprehensive coverage of classical music.

Regards,

Art

[redwing]

You could also use the "select by album" setting, if you add composition to your album definition in sort/grouping preferences.

@ArthurDaniels;

What was wrong about this approach? You could change the album definition later if you want to go back.

[ArthurDaniels]

For classical music, here are the issues:

1.  Some compositions span more than one album.

2.  The Auto DJ feature wants me to pre-select the number of tracks.  Compositions may have from one to X number of tracks.

3.  I have made changes to the Auto DJ menu, but when I come back to my Music menus, the changes I have made are not saved.

I still do not see a way to successfully use Auto DJ to randomly select compositions.

[redwing]

For classical music, here are the issues:

1.  Some compositions span more than one album.

I don't have such albums. What compositions span more than one album in your collection?

2.  The Auto DJ feature wants me to pre-select the number of tracks.  Compositions may have from one to X number of tracks.

That doesn't matter. After that number, it continues play the rest of the composition.

3.  I have made changes to the Auto DJ menu, but when I come back to my Music menus, the changes I have made are not saved.

What kind of changes are not saved?

I still do not see a way to successfully use Auto DJ to randomly select compositions.

"random - select by album (with composition added to album definition)" doesn't select randomly for you?

[ArthurDaniels]

Compositions in the classical world can be very long.  Examples:

1.  Almost any opera spans two, three, or four CDs.

2.  Long symphonies (Mahler 2nd for example spans 2 CDs)

3.  Long Choral/orchestra works (Verdi Requiem, for example, spans 2 CDs).


Let's not pursue this topic any further.  I can use MusiCHI to play Compositions randomly.  In MusiCHI, "Composition" is a standard tag.  So long as I keep the Composition name the same across multiple tracks (and multiple discs), then the entire composition is played when randomly selected, regardless of the number of tracks or discs.

Since "Composition" is not a standard tag in MusicBee, I think trying to set up a work-around will not be successful for the multiple types of compositions found in the classical world.  In order to randomly select and play complete classical works, the number of tracks involved must not impact the selection process.

Perhaps Steve can think about this thread and decide whether or not to add "Composition" to the standard tagging model, then modify the Auto DJ feature to permit selection by Composition without defining a specific number of tracks.

Regards,

Art

[redwing]

Compositions in the classical world can be very long.  Examples:

1.  Almost any opera spans two, three, or four CDs.

2.  Long symphonies (Mahler 2nd for example spans 2 CDs)

3.  Long Choral/orchestra works (Verdi Requiem, for example, spans 2 CDs).

That's not what you said. You said some compositions span more than one "album" not one disc, which made me curious.

Also I'm not sure you ever tried what's suggested or even you understand it. I'm not saying it's perfect but it delivers most of what you want.

[ArthurDaniels]

I did try to work with Auto DJ, but without success.  I'll admit that I do not understand how to accomplish what you suggested.  In the past, I have had difficulty working with MusicBee, except for what you would probably refer to as "basic functions".  I have spent a good deal of time exploring menus and trying to discover how to accomplish certain tasks - with limited success.

I keep both MusicBee and MusiCHI current so far as my music library is concerned.  I cannot detect any difference in sound quality between the two programs.  Both are running in the WASAPI mode.  MusicBee's library editing process is a bit simpler than MusiCHI's process.  MusicBee also offers gapless playback, which is preferable when listening to compositions which have music which is continuous across adjacent tracks.  On the other hand, MusiCHI offers a very good and comprehensive tagging and ripping program and, of course, the random composition play feature we have been discussing.

I do not listen to external streaming sources so whatever advantages either program might offer is of no consequence to me.  I have over 25,000 music files, either ripped from my CD collection or directly downloaded from commercial sources.  Most of my collection is classical music.  The balance is jazz, folk and easy listening.

I am not complaining about MusicBee - it is a fine program and has served me well.  However, I have found it difficult to learn how to use the advanced features.  If there is a comprehensive manual, I have not found it.

Apparently, few other MusicBee users are interested in having a separate Composition field and tag.  I may spend some more time working with MusicBee on this option, but for me to do so, I will need to be able to learn more about implementing these concepts you have mentioned.  Detailed instructions would help.

Best,

Art



 

[psychoadept]

Apparently, few other MusicBee users are interested in having a separate Composition field and tag.  I may spend some more time working with MusicBee on this option, but for me to do so, I will need to be able to learn more about implementing these concepts you have mentioned.  Detailed instructions would help.

Actually, there was enough interest in this that Steven added a lot of support for classical in recent months: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=20209.0. What you call composition is called Work in MusicBee, and it is a built in field.  You can access the field in the tag editor by clicking the arrows next to the Track Title field, which will expand it to show all works.

Do you have Disc# included in your album field?  That would cause multi disc albums to be broken up into multiple "albums" in MusicBee.  Instead, use the actual disc count and disc # fields in the tag editor to organize discs, and give the whole album the same name.  Then it will treat the album as one unit.

In order to use the "select by album" mode for auto dj the way you want, you will first have to adjust your album definition (where it says "the following fields define an album") in sorting/grouping preferences to include your composition field: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Sorting_%26_Grouping.  Just beware that this means if there are multiple compositions on one album, they will now appear as separate albums in your library.

The wiki page for auto dj is not complete, but it's here: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Playback#Auto_DJ.  If you go into your auto dj settings, there's a spot where it says "selection mode".  The first option is "random - select by:" and it has a menu box.  By default it says "track" but you can change it to select by "album".  If you've done the step to add composition to your album definition, this should make it do what you want.

[ArthurDaniels]

Hello Psychoadept,

Thanks for your suggestions.  I had not previously noticed the Work and Movement sub-fields under the Title Field.  Since I have already created and populated a custom field called Composition, my first thought was to copy the Composition field data to the Work field.  However, it appears that the drop-down options for the destination in the copy tag feature does not list the Work field.  So, I see no way to copy my Composition data to the Work field.

Re-entry of the data by hand for my 25,000 + tracks is not a task I plan to undertake.

I do not have disc # in my Album Field.  In fact, I have spent considerable editing time with my entire database to consolidated Albums with multiple discs into logical (to me) arrangements.  For example, the opera Das Reingold, which occupies three discs, is listed only once in my Albums grouping and contains a chronologically-correct listing of all tracks in the complete opera.

So, re-defining the Albums to add a Composition sort would be going backwards for me, if such action caused each composition to be listed as a separate Album.

Finally, I did see and experiment with the "by Track" versus "by Album" feature in Auto DJ.  I can see that adding the Composition element to the Album would cause a sort by Composition within an Album.  But, again, I don't want multiple album listings driven by the number of compositions on the album.

By way of offering additional information on this topic, I will explain how MusiCHI handles this feature:

MusiCHI has a standard field called "Composition".  it is a separate field from the "Album" Field.  In the MusiCHI Player display there is a section with a toggle between Albums and Compositions.

MusiCHI has a Random Play feature which offers several options for the number of Albums or Compositions selected for random play.  Each option permits random selection either by Album or by Composition, depending upon which field is displayed at the time the random play feature is initiated.  If the Album field is displayed, then the appropriate number of Albums are selected for random play.  If the Composition field is displayed, then the appropriate number of compositions are randomly selected.

This feature does have one "drawback".  If the Composition field is selected, then all compositions of the same name will be selected for random play.  I resolve this problem by eliminating duplicate compositions from the random play list, unless I want to listen to each one.  I could eliminate this issue by editing the composition field data to differentiate between different performances of the same composition, but so far, I have not elected to spend the time to do so.

Regards,

Art

[redwing]

However, it appears that the drop-down options for the destination in the copy tag feature does not list the Work field.  So, I see no way to copy my Composition data to the Work field.

You need the latest version of the plugin for that: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=3833.msg129700#msg129700

This feature does have one "drawback".  If the Composition field is selected, then all compositions of the same name will be selected for random play.  I resolve this problem by eliminating duplicate compositions from the random play list, unless I want to listen to each one.  I could eliminate this issue by editing the composition field data to differentiate between different performances of the same composition, but so far, I have not elected to spend the time to do so.

That's why you need "Album" too in album definition in order not to mix up different performances for the same composition.

[ArthurDaniels]

I have downloaded the Tagging Tools Zip File.  Please remind me what to do with the ZIP file.  Where do I place the unzipped file?  Is there an installer?

[redwing]

Just unzip and overwrite them (except language folders you don't need) to your MusicBee/Plugins folder.

[redwing]

For example, the opera Das Reingold, which occupies three discs, is listed only once in my Albums grouping and contains a chronologically-correct listing of all tracks in the complete opera.
So, re-defining the Albums to add a Composition sort would be going backwards for me, if such action caused each composition to be listed as a separate Album.

It's up to how you grouped that album regardless of its disc number. Mostly likely people will have that kind of album as an multi-disc album "Wagner: Das Rheingold" (album name tag) and "Das Rheingold, WWV 86A" for its composition (work) tag. So it will work for this Auto-DJ setting.

Finally, I did see and experiment with the "by Track" versus "by Album" feature in Auto DJ.  I can see that adding the Composition element to the Album would cause a sort by Composition within an Album.  But, again, I don't want multiple album listings driven by the number of compositions on the album.

I'm adding the composition tag to album definition only when I want to listening to classical music via Auto-DJ or playlists with select by album setting. Except that, I only have Album Artist and Album for album definition. MB's album definition is dynamic, so you don't have to stick to one setting all the time.