Most unnecessary complicated music player ever!

[DKDiveDude]

Wow this is the worst piece of crap ever! Just my honest opinion guys!

I mean why not go the full monty and let users set their preference via machine code?!?

I am definitely uninstalling this crap, and going back to the latest version before 3.0, as I do not have time to sit for hours on end to find out how to configure the panels like I had them before.

Many things totally suck, I finally found out how to browse to "My Computer" and the folder where I have my music and it created a tab/ However when I click a subfolder with files, it "auto-idiotic" removes the panel with my drive and folder and creates a new tab even though there may NOT be any music files!?! Why?

I then have to click the Tab with the computer drive and folders TWO TIMES to bring it back into view! Why?

And if I hover my mouse back out over the left panel with the folders and then away the whole panel disappears?!? Why?

And I can't even do something as simple as clicking and dragging the width of panels?!? Why?

FAIL, SUCKS, FAIL! Worst program interface ever!

[phred]

I'm going to be kind and not say what I'd really like to say because this forum has always been civil.

You really have a hell of a lot of nerve blasting the software's interface when you obviously haven't spent any amount of time exploring it.  Many of your complaints are easily corrected if you took the time to figure it out.  Or had the common decency to ask us how to do something.

But since your first post is so crass, I'll be damned if I'm going to help you since you obviously won't take the time to read my suggestions.

[redwing]

Looks like some people have problem configuring left navigator from the default auto-hide to show state. I can see it might not be obvious for some people that it can be configured from panel layout editor's tab override section especially when they're new to v3. iTunes got the same complaints from users when it started hiding left sidebar by default. They ended up adding "show left sidebar" command under view menu (now it's no longer needed with the introduction of playlists mode).

[Steven]

thats a good suggestion redwing and i think i will do that, although i suspect the DKDiveDude's of the world will struggle with any change made

[Xyzzy]

Wow this is the worst piece of crap ever! Just my honest opinion guys!

If you want to be understood, do it like:
When I do so, and then so, and then so.
Then the following happens:
But I would expect this:
Screenshot with Preferences section relevant to problem helps.

And when we are at crap - don't try to touch any enterprise software ever with your sensitivity- you will blow up, splattering everything and everyone around with blood and entrails.

[Steven]

further to redwing's suggestion, i have also added a pin button to the popup. So for the default configuration where the left sidebar is auto-hidden, when a user clicks "+" the sidebar popup will include a pin button so the user can easily have the left panel permanently open
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_0/MusicBee3_Patched.zip

[redwing]

i have also added a pin button to the popup.

Great idea! Few would miss the button when they want to keep it open.

[Solonaut]

Although the OP's post does not invite any help, I am wholly sympathetic with his frustrations. I am completely new to MusicBee (having been a Winamp devotee for decades) and thought I'd try it out based on Lifehacker's recommendation after upgrading my OS to Win10. Here is my experience of trying to customise the layout:

   "What - the - actual - f#$@??"

I am so completely overwhelmed by the highly unintuitive interface settings—I repeat, highly un-intuitive—that I don't even know where to begin in asking for help. I click things and it does things or doesn't do things. Then I click other things and it does exactly the same thing as clicking different things, so why are there different things?

In genuinely trying to understand it, I seek out the Wiki. People have clearly devoted a lot of their free time in assembling the information and trying to explain the interface. But they are hamstrung by jargon. Caption bar. Header bar. Top panel. Tabs bar (aka toolbar). Ticked elements. Stacked elements. Thank you, Wiki contributors; I really do appreciate the effort, but I don't know what you're talking about. It's like studying a new subject in university, but I am not interested in devoting that kind of time and effort to something of such inconsequential importance as customising a music player. If I wanted to put in that amount of time, I'll learn a new language like C++.

Honestly, this really is my experience. Complete bafflement. And I'm no slouch with computers. I am just so utterly befuddled by the unnecessarily complicated complexity.

This is very poor UX design. The fundamental rule of design is that it should be intuitive. But as this is an open source project, it strikes me that the design has been, effectively, by committee. That's a real shame because I'm a great believer in open source. But I wonder if there were ever any design principles dictated in such a flat hierarchy as open source development. Development still requires guidance.

So, I'd love to ask for help, but I am so far off the learning curve on this that I don't know what to ask. I'll likely uninstall MusicBee and dabble with Music Monkey or whatever it's called before reverting to the old, outdated but comprehensible Winamp.

[hiccup]

Although the OP's post does not invite any help, I am wholly sympathetic with his frustrations. I am completely new to MusicBee (having been a Winamp devotee for decades) and thought I'd try it out based on Lifehacker's recommendation after upgrading my OS to Win10. Here is my experience of trying to customise the layout:
   "What - the - actual - f#$@??"

It's a pity you are so confused and disappointed at the moment.
I can sympathize with some of your frustration, remembering myself starting to use more advanced software such as MS Access, VueScan, foobar, Daminion, etc. with each their own interfaces and 'logics'.
For all such more advanced software, you'll have to invest some (usually a lot of) time and effort. If you are not able or prepared to do that, it's probably just not for you.
Just curious, for how long have you been trying to learn MusicBee now?

Besides Lifehacker and other review sites, check out what all these 'normal users' are saying about MusicBee:
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=4506.0
So I think it's fair to say that the bulk of features and possibilities that MusicBee offers should not be too hard to learn if you are willing to.

F.y.i. there have been some proposals to give the configuration panels a bit more structure and some more space for some better explanation about it's functions. So that might happen in the future.
But since MusicBee is (in contrary to what you believe) not open-source, and it is being programmed by one single developer, that might take time, if it is going to happen.

[psychoadept]

You know, if you tell us something you're trying to accomplish, there's a good chance someone could give you a step-by-step.

As for the names of parts, we've tried to name them as accurately as possible (tabs bar = where the tabs are, header bar = where panel headings are), but I know there are a lot of different bits and it's hard to keep track of them all.  That's what screenshots are for.  Not all of the wiki is up to date, but most of the major layout parts are.  Do the screenshots not help?

I strongly recommend spending some time with the Panels Configuration window (the live version) to get familiar with the layout.  The different pieces are named and highlighted for you in the diagrams: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Panels_Configuration

[Solonaut]

Thank you both for your encouraging replies. I read through some of the appreciation thread, and that provided further encouragement. Clearly a lot of people really believe in this player. Honestly, it strikes me as a great player, too. Out of the box it works great, and the import of all my (thousands of) albums was seamless. It's really just the customisation that completely does my head in.

Hiccup, I've only been using MusicBee for less than a week, but I've made no headway whatsoever in understanding the panels configuration. Things disappear and come back, and settings I select don't do anything or do things that seem completely unrelated. Maybe it's just the way I learn things, but I like to dive in and play around, getting my hands dirty to get a baseline understanding of how a piece of software works, before drilling into more specific detail. None of that has borne any fruit. Not yet, anyway. I appreciate your advice that I'll just have to put in a bit of time to try to get my head around it.

I strongly recommend spending some time with the Panels Configuration window (the live version) to get familiar with the layout.  The different pieces are named and highlighted for you in the diagrams: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Panels_Configuration

Thanks for the recommendation, Psychoadept. This is what I was doing. It seems I'm just going to have to put aside a day rather than a just few hours, knuckle down and study.

PS. Not sure how I got the impression it's an Open Source project. Learning that it isn't doesn't help me understand the design approach, other than to respectfully say that the sole designer needs to go back to first principles.

[Solonaut]

I strongly recommend spending some time with the Panels Configuration window (the live version) ...

By the way, what does that mean? The "live" version? Have I been using a different version?

[hiccup]

PS. Not sure how I got the impression it's an Open Source project. Learning that it isn't doesn't help me understand the design approach, other than to respectfully say that the sole designer needs to go back to first principles.

While MB is not open source, it has also gotten as good as it is by the source of hundreds of users making suggestions, requesting features, and testing them out thoroughly over many years.
And of course an incredible developer who listens and responds to almost all sensible input and requests.

You still have a fresh 'newBee' view on things, and that might result in some suggestions to perhaps further improve on some area's.
But you will probably find that it won't be easy to make specific suggestions on improvements that don't have very complex (often negative) repercussions on other workings.

But do feel free to share any specific suggestions.
That's what made MusicBee what it is today.

Good luck, nice travels, amazing discoveries, etc. etc., and I am pretty sure in a few weeks or months you will also be posting in the appreciation thread...

[StefanIvanovic]

Even though he is very rude and use a lot of inappropriate language and tone, I must agree that for a newcomer (like this DKDiveDude plank) it might be a little confusing and frustrating to set everything up since MusicBee has so many options for UI layout and players preferences as well. In an era of PC users being thought not to use their brains extensively and want everything set up out-of-box it actually might be a good idea to consider something like predefined sets of UI layouts (4-6 maximum) to choose from once they fire MusicBee up for the first time and later they can customize it as much as they want to.

It shouldn't be that much of a problem since UI layout is already in MusicBee3Settings.ini file anyway. Just make several MusicBee3Settings.ini files with thumbnail to chose layout, or even better, hence the MusicBee3Settings.ini file is an xml file you can subgroup UI part of it in couple of sub-sections for as many UI layouts you want to offer. Foobar2000 and some other apps (video players mostly) has some kind of layout picker anyway. It is a little hassle to make it, but it would help users (especially new ones) a lot when starting with MusicBee.

[Skoop]

I agree in large measure with Solonaut.  So much configurability and user customization, a tweaker's delight. 

If that's what you're in to and want to spend a lot of time with it.  And then keep futzing with it.  It's remarkably adept at allowing for that. 

But if you just want a music manager and player and don't care about the width of columns or the placement of panels or the just-right html color code on your scrollbar, then it's overkill.  I'm glad I discovered MB in the 2-version era when it was a LOT simpler to get started with. 

Many, many opening posts by newcomers to the forum reflect some of this befuddlement expressed in the posts above.  The potential to be overwhelming is great in the latest version.  It seems as though many find it extremely difficult to use out-of-the-box.  Can't find stuff,  many terms are not obvious to what they refer, a click gives an unexpected result. 

These are all issues that the core group of dedicated members have been answering over and over.  They're (you're) a good group of fans and over and above in the willingness department.  But the system you're helping with is problematic in the ways described.  To be honest, a lot of what has changed from 2.5 to 3 seems to me to be change for change's sake. 

Upon install, I think there should be a Basic and an Advanced version that can be displayed/selected by the user, with the Basic mode as default.  Get somebody up to speed and comfortable.  Then press the "Advanced" button and use it as a sandbox then to screw around with and see what does what.  It it goes south, revert to Basic and have it look like it did before. 

Or something.  I don't know.  But look at how people get confused or lost...that's a red flag.  You have to appeal to the lowest common denominator of experience and patience. 

I think MB is great--the library system, the database-like backend, the tagging tools, and player.  I'm not changing; I am, however, staying put at 2.5.5804.  That was the sweet spot for me. 

I'm trying to be constructive and offer an assessment of someone who mostly lurks now, watching from the sidelines.  None of this should be construed as gratuitous criticism.  It's only that I see all the options and tweaks as overcomplications to an already complete product.  How many cupholders, seat adjustments, and ride levelers do you need, so to speak. 

The forum, on the other hand...totally in need of some modernization.    Looking forward to that.

Edit:  Stefan posted while I was composing.  I second the notion of in-built layouts.  We were on the same track there.