Author Topic: [WEBSITE v2] MusicBee website and forum redesign  (Read 284504 times)

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
Look at how hard it is to get bugs in bugs, portable devices in portable devices,

If you look at how that separation between 'normal bugs' and 'portable bugs' is currently displayed, even I myself would probably overlook it. Let alone a newbee:



On the new forum that is presented a lot better.
(actually I have to add this specific childboard yet, but just take a look at how childboards are presented in the new forum.)

And as a general remark, many here seem very worried, and have some assumptions on possible problematic 'users behavior' and their capabilities to understand what is what, and how to behave.

My experience is very positive in this respect.
This forum and it's community seems to work quite well together, and seems to be quite self-cleansing and self-maintaining.
Unless Steven has different experiences, and corrects/deletes/moves a lot behind the screens that I am not aware of, the maintenance pressure on moderation is quite low.

So let's not underestimate this self-filtering, self-maintaining, self-learning mechanism that seems to work quite well here.
And let's not underestimate the intelligence of newbees either.
They may be new to MB or this forum, but that doesn't say anything about their common sense, intelligence or experience with other fora and software.

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
Just a fun observation, I noticed how the childboard buttons change color when you change between light and dark theme.
Very sophisticated. I just can't stop myself switching themes now ;-)
haha. it uses a transition based animation thats why a little bit delay between changing colors.

This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
Just curious, do you (and Steven) have some timeline set, as a goal when to activate the new forum?

redwing

  • Guest
And there are topics that deserve such a separate board such as 'General Discussion', and preferably shouldn't be mixed with 'Questions'.

To name a few examples:

- [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
- GUI changes for v3.0
- Official MB appreciation thread
- Wiki pages
- Any polls could go there
- other matters which are not a specific request for help or assistance.

That makes sense.
Then I'd suggest (1) move Questions board to General section (2) make the General Discussion board a child board under Questions board.
That way it would be much easier to maintain because mods can move only a few "real" discussion threads to the child board and it won't disrupt existing members' posting habit nor cause any confusions by separating boards. Also it won't suppress any spontaneous development of discussion out of a plain question, and there would be no need to create a new thread from ongoing discussion.

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
And there are topics that deserve such a separate board such as 'General Discussion', and preferably shouldn't be mixed with 'Questions'.
To name a few examples:
- [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
- GUI changes for v3.0
- Official MB appreciation thread
- Wiki pages
- Any polls could go there
- other matters which are not a specific request for help or assistance.

That makes sense.
Then I'd suggest (1) move Questions board to General section (2) make the General Discussion board a child board under Questions board.
That way it would be much easier to maintain because mods can move only a few "real" discussion threads to the child board and it won't disrupt existing members' posting habit nor cause any confusions by separating boards. Also it won't suppress any spontaneous development of discussion out of a plain question, and there would be no need to create a new thread from ongoing discussion.

I don't agree. Topics such as "Official MB appreciation threadOfficial MB appreciation thread", are not questions, and therefore shouldn't reside under 'Questions'.
Also 'General Discussions' would then fall under the category 'Support', where I don't think it belongs.

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
- Questions under Support section is not necessary as quite often a question develops into discussion. Also people will keep posting questions on General Discussions board.
Well general is for discussion if a question ever turns into discussion op will be asked to create a new thread in general for discussion purpose.
For a big forum with lots of mods and members, it might work. But not for this forum.
- Why is plugins alone not a child board? It just takes up vertical space.
Plugins are not same as customizations.  They intend to allow more functionality while custimization controls how musicbee looks. thats why it have separate board.
Then drop the word customizations. They are all add-ons and it looks strange all others are cramped under one board except plugins.

About the current structure for the new forum and it's terminology:

A main category you mentioned is 'MusicBee Add-ons'

That should make it clear that under that category you can find all sorts of 'extra's' that are developed for MusicBee, but not by default present in the installer.
That should be easy to understand, and seems logical.

Then, we indeed have two separated boards for:
'extra's' that have a mainly visual function (layout, skins, theatremode etc.), and we have a board for:
'extra's' that have more impact on the working and functionality of MusicBee. (such as Boroda74's tool, audio plugins, lyrics, social media, whatever)

To me that seems a very defendable separation.

I used the word 'extra's' here on purpose.
We can have discussions until hell freezes over if we should words such as extensions, customisations, add-ins, add-ons, plug-ins, or whatever, and for every argument given for one, I am very sure somebody will step in and just argue the contrary. (trust me, I even had these arguments in my own head too ;-)

The current wordings were thought over and discussed, and I believe are very defendable and understandable.
And if they are also used consistantly on the wiki, the forum, the website, by the creators, etc, they should stick very quickly.

I also see some suggestions and even arguments on the weight that the number of childboards should have, or the weight that traffic a certain board generates is so important. I don't support that line of thought much.
First of all the structure should just make sense and be as simple and logical as possible.
Some board may be very popular at a certain moment, others might get less traffic. So what, that doesn't change the concept of the structure.
Would anyone argue that every board should have the exact same number of childboards? (well, I wouldn't)
A house has one doorbell, a high-rise building may have 200, yet they can be located next to each other perfectly.

Also, we can later easily extend boards that have no, or few childboards.
If or when for example the plugins topic gets more popular, and more plugins are created, we can always add childboards to it. For for example 'audio', 'tagging', 'web' or whatever.

redwing

  • Guest
I don't agree. Topics such as "Official MB appreciation threadOfficial MB appreciation thread", are not questions, and therefore shouldn't reside under 'Questions'.
Also 'General Discussions' would then fall under the category 'Support', where I don't think it belongs.

I think both should be under General section, and Support section should be confined only to devs support like the current structure.
If people agree on that, we could think of better naming for the two boards.

redwing

  • Guest
About the current structure for the new forum and it's terminology:
...

You seem to be really fond of arguing.
All I'm saying is it looks strange to separate plugins alone from all other add-ons. What would the harm be if all belong to one board?

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
About the current structure for the new forum and it's terminology:
...

You seem to be really fond of arguing.
All I'm saying is it looks strange to separate plugins alone from all other add-ons. What would the harm be if all belong to one board?

No, that is not all you are saying.
You commented on the wording 'customisations' being wrong, you commented that you believe 'Questions' should not be under 'Support', you commented that 'General Discussions' should be moved under 'Questions'. (and maybe I missed something else)

------

I think you are mistaking arguing, for me making an effort trying to explain how this all came about, what the thought process was and is on creating this structure.
The current proposed structure is not my personal baby, it is a result from normal discussions, open on this forum that started quite a while ago.
At this moment also AvikB and Steven seem to be happy with the current proposal.

Now you come up saying that you disagree with some of it. That's fine. And I disagree with your new suggestions, and I am making an effort to explain to you why.
If you conceive that as arguing, it is probably better for me to let this just rest.

edit,
I added the first two sentences to my reply.
Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 02:47:01 PM by hiccup

redwing

  • Guest
If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than you disagree, let's see what others think of those matters.

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than you disagree, let's see what others think of those matters.

Distill from my detailed explanations what you want.
If the only thing you can register is: 'somebody disagrees with me', that's on you.

AvikB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.
DAMN! i though no one would notice it and i could get away with it ;( now i have to fix it.

redwing

  • Guest
If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than you disagree, let's see what others think of those matters.

Distill from my detailed explanations what you want.
If the only thing you can register is: 'somebody disagrees with me', that's on you.

Stop being childish. Then answer to my questions.

I think both should be under General section, and Support section should be confined only to devs support like the current structure.
If people agree on that, we could think of better naming for the two boards.

What would the harm be if all belong to one board?

hiccup

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4236
This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.
DAMN! i though no one would notice it and i could get away with it ;( now i have to fix it.

Haha,
Do you want me to shut-up about such details from now on, so you can focus on important stuff?
Don't answer, I will.  ;-)

AvikB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
Just curious, do you (and Steven) have some timeline set, as a goal when to activate the new forum?
I am holding back until the new dashboard is done. the forum is complete only few minor styling fixes.
There is no exact ETA. It will be done when i feel it is stable and done for v1.0