Author Topic: Updating Album Duration & Album Track Count  (Read 6585 times)

romney_yw

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I have some files where the Album Duration and Album Track Count have values which are clearly incorrect.

I'm not sure where the incorrect data came from as it is a while since the files were tagged (probably while ripping from the CD?). However, I would like to update this data to the correct values. The data does not appear in the Tag Inspector, so I assume it is stored in the MB database only. However, the data isn't editable in situ in columns in the main panel ....

I've tried various tricks such as rescanning the files or converting the file format - without success.

Please, can anyone tell me how to update this information?

Steven

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you cant update it. Its probably wrong because you dont have all the files tagged to the same album (according to how you have defined an album)
you can easily see by viewing the files with album and tracks layout

romney_yw

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Steven,
Thanks for your reply, but ....

The Album concerned is Robbie Williams Greatest Hits from 2004. I have 19 tracks which I believe is the total tracks on the album. The total duration is 1:18:35 according to Tagging tools: Library reports. Whichever way I look at them, Album Track Count shows 105 tracks with an Album Duration of 412:32. Are these values stored from the original tagging exercise, or are they calculated on the fly? Are there any other values involved which could explain the errors?

I think there may have been a special edition of this album with 19 separate CDs each containing a single track. I had wondered if data from this set had some how confused the issue, but I've tried the maths various ways and can't identify an explanation (19 x 19 = 361, not 105, etc.)

I assume that the original data ripped from the CD started out with no tags, and the files were subsequently tagged with (presumably) incorrect data, resulting in these odd values. It's just occurred to me that if these album values were imported as part of that tagging process, and the data was wrong at source, then MB is simply reporting the incorrect data with which the files were originally tagged. If the values can't be updated, then the only solution is probably to re-tag the files with correct data from a different source. Would it help if I delete the tracks from my library and then re-scan them? I guess I might have to dig out the original CD and rip the tracks again ......

These files are currently in my Inbox along with tracks from four other albums. The other albums give reasonable values for Track Count and Duration. As far as I know, all my other tracks also give sensible values for these data items.... (perhaps I'd better check thoroughly?)

Steven

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i would say the files or one of the files has an embeded cuesheet.
The easiest way for me to figure out what is going on is if you PM me a link to a zip of:
- one of the files in the album
- the library database (musicbeelibrary.mbl in the Music\MusicBee folder)

Zak

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I think there may have been a special edition of this album with 19 separate CDs each containing a single track.
You're right about that:

http://www.discogs.com/Robbie-Williams-Greatest-Hits/release/748988

What a stupid idea...
Bee excellent to each other...

romney_yw

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Thanks Zak - I knew I'd read about it somewhere, but it was a little while ago now....

I guess it might appeal to a collector, and think how much fun changing CDs you would miss if you could listen to all 19 tracks off a single CD without getting up from the couch ......  ;D Better exercise than going to the gym, I'd say!

Regards, Romney

Steven

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you have 3 instances of the album "Greatest Hits" in your library so you need to include Album Artist or some other field to distinguish each album

romney_yw

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Steven
Many thanks for the feedback - I begin to understand what is going on. But there's something not quite right here somewhere.  ???

My music files are organised on traditional lines - a folder for each artist, with sub-folders for each album. In general, I use the Organise Files function to maintain that structure. My Edit Preferences - Sorting/Grouping settings currently specify that files for each album are organised in their own folder.

I actually have 7 Greatest Hits albums in my library. The first in the list (currently Heart) shows correct values for Album Duration and Album Track count, but the remaining six all show the same erroneous values of 105 tracks and 412:32 duration as previously reported. I still don't quite understand where those values come from, as they are not the correct total for all my Greatest Hits tracks - not even if I exclude the Heart album which seems to be displaying correctly....

If I look at "Artwork" or "Albums and Tracks" views and filter for Greatest Hits, I can see 3 albums. The first album shows the artwork for Eurythmics: Greatest Hits, but includes tracks from both Eurythmics and Fleetwood Mac. The second album shows artwork for Heart: Greatest Hits and (correctly) only includes the tracks from that album. The third entry shows artwork for Linda Ronstadt: Greatest hits, but additionally includes the tracks from Robbie Williams, Shania Twain and Texas.

I don't really understand how this can be - I would expect either that all seven albums would be grouped together as one, or all would be displayed correctly. I haven't yet spotted anything which would make them group as they are currently doing.

If I change my grouping settings so that an album is defined by the fields Album Artist and Album Name, the seven albums are displayed correctly - each with only the correct tracks for that album.  ;D The Album Track Count is now correct for each individual album, but the Album Duration is about 10secs larger than the totals calculated using Library Reports from boroda74's Additional Tagging & Reporting Tools. I'm working on an Excel spreadsheet to help analyse my album durations in the hope of identifying where the discrepancy lies. It's currently taking a bit of time to get right, so I'll report again in due course. :(

I'm quite happy to keep the new settings identifying my albums by Album Artist and Album Name, but I'm slightly puzzled why the "files in their own folder" option doesn't work as I anticipated. It certainly seemed to be the best match for my current situation.....

Steven

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romney_yw

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Steven,
I have installed V2.5 RC1 update. I have reset my preferences to "each album in its own folder" and my greatest hits albums are now correctly displayed as 7 separate albums, each with its own tracks (only).  ;D I believe this patch contains the same version as the RC1 update?

There is still a small discrepancy between the Album Duration values displayed in MB and the total time calculated by summing the individual track times using boroda74's Library Reports tool. My Excel spreadsheet appears to confirm that the Library Reports calculated value is correct. Album Duration is between 5 and 10 seconds greater than the calculated sum, for albums ranging from 38 to 79 minutes.

I wonder if there is a problem with the way the Album Duration is calculated, or if this is simply a cumulative error arising from the way in which the time values are stored? For my own use, these discrepancies are small enough to be of little consequence, but I guess it would be nicer if they can be resolved without too much effort.....

Many thanks indeed for fixing this so quickly.

romney_yw

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I've done some more detailed research.

It seems that different sources of tag data can show different lengths for some tracks by a second or so, and the same track may possibly be quoted as a slightly different length on a different release (e.g. original album and greatest hits compilation). This could well be due to slight errors arising from the way the time value is actually stored. So a track which is about 3 minutes 53.5 seconds will sometimes show as 3:53 and sometimes as 3:54.

So on balance, it is probably the Album Duration which is correct, with minor differences in the length of some individual tracks causing an apparent error in the calculated total duration.. On a CD with 20 or so tracks, this can easily mount up to about 10 seconds discrepancy over the full duration.

I think I was probably trying to be a bit too clever while investigating a different problem! Apologies. :-[

Zak

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It seems that different sources of tag data can show different lengths for some tracks by a second or so, and the same track may possibly be quoted as a slightly different length on a different release (e.g. original album and greatest hits compilation). This could well be due to slight errors arising from the way the time value is actually stored.

Compressed audio files don't store the duration of the file where it can be read easily and consistently. The duration is calculated by each program that wants it based on the size of the file and the sample rate, bit rate etc. Depending on how a given program calculates it, there might be minor discrepancies because of rounding errors etc.

Some programs go as far as listing durations as an approximate only (e.g. ~1.23), especially for variable bitrate files where the discrepancy is likely to be larger.
Bee excellent to each other...

romney_yw

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Thanks zak - that explains why these files show a slightly different length when viewed with "another" player, though most (out of four!) show values which agree with MusicBee. Interestingly though the all players I've looked at seem to show the same overall album duration, and therefore most of them show the same discrepancy as the one I originally noted in MusicBee. It's clearly all down to the way in which the track length is calculated. And I'm using variable bit rate too ......

Thanks again for you help.