Author Topic: Tags randomly deleting themselves & other questions  (Read 8327 times)

Batzarro

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[ADDING THIS TEXT A WHILE AFTER POSTING THIS ORIGINAL MSSG - AFTER SOME MESSING ABOUT AND HELP FROM THE FORUM, I'VE FOUND THAT IT'S UNLIKELY MUSICBEE IS CAUSING THIS ISSUE. SO FORGIVE ME FOR BEING A BIT IRATE AT FIRST. IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE THAT I STARTED USING MB AT THE SAME TIME THAT I BEGAN TO EXPERIENCE ISSUES.]

I started using MusicBee a little under a year ago I think, seemed real good. Some albums appeared different in Zune, which I mostly used to snyc with my Nokia Lumia. But Zune didn't support FLAC, so I started using MusicBee so that I could see all my music collection. The main thing was that album art wouldn't show, not too bad, I just used the tools inside MB to add them. Don't know why they appeared in Zune but not MB, but whatever.

Then after a short time. albums started to split into 2, and then sometimes more. I umm, thought, maybe it was always like that? I hadn't noticed maybe? But then it started happening more and more. I checked tags- number of discs maybe? They were set to 1/1, but I deleted the field on these anyway to see if it could help. Nope. Album artist all the same? Yes. But still, they're split. Then sometimes the album art would just dissapear again.

The 'sort album artist' tag seemed to be an issue, even though I'd never used it before. I read about it on some site. So I made sure they were deleted as well. Now, well, seemingly random files from different albums are just messing up. Loads of my files now have all the main tag fields missing. Title, album name, etc, all gone. Only thing remaining is the file name. I've tried to edit the files in MP3Tag 2.64 outside of MusicBee to fix them, but this seems to mess them up even more!

Now about half my music collection is totally effed up and I'm really upset. I've had some of this stuff for years before I used MB and they worked just fine. Files wouldn't just randomly go nuts like this. It's like when I add an album to MB, it scans it and messes with the files. Or any time I scan for new stuff in my main music folder. A lot of my music is video game soundtracks, so I can't even autotag a lot of this stuff back to normal. I  have to manually re-write all the tags. Even then, I don't remember all the tag info. There are many artists and track names I'll have to manually look up and add back to the tags. In fact I've done this over th past few weeks, only to find the tags have deleted themselves again. My past 100 or so hours of cleaning tags and adding cover art is totally wasted.

If anyone could help, that could be great. Though, theres not much I can do about the already destroyed files.
Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 10:38:58 AM by Batzarro

ma_t14

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First of all let's get one thing straight, on default settings MusicBee does not alter your files without permission (emphasis on "default settings") so it's highly unlikely that it was caused without you changing something and even then the scenario you describe is highly unlikely.

On the other hand this is the first time I hear anyone have the problem you describe so I will just assume it has something to do with you using MusicBee and Zune at the same time and probably Zune messed up your tags somehow. If I were to guess it might have an option to retrieve tags automatically.

"I just used the tools inside MB to add them. Don't know why they appeared in Zune but not MB, but whatever."

It depends on where the artwork was saved, it should be pretty simple to add them if they are inside the album folder.

Finally how exactly were you deleting the tags you describe because it might be that you caused the problem yourself without knowing?

Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 07:11:39 PM by ma_t14

Batzarro

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I have kept all MB settings to default. Well, besides the layout. But maybe I changed a setting by mistake, because it's definitely changing the files when I use MB. For example, some but not all songs in an album will suddenly have their 'album artist' names changed to "lbum artist". And no, that is not a typo, it will literally add 'lbum', missing out the 'a'. I have gone through to settings but haven't found anything. I will now try to set everything back to default.

Concerning Zune, I don't think it's that. I haven't used Zune much since getting MB. Also, I used Zune for several years before MB, with no problems. Only thing it didn't do was read FLAC files. By design, though.

"I just used the tools inside MB to add them. Don't know why they appeared in Zune but not MB, but whatever." - This was in reference to a small issue I had when I first installed MB; Before I had MB, all the cover art would show fine in Zune. But when I started using MB, some cover art was blank. So I used MBs cover download features to add them back.

"Finally how exactly were you deleting the tags you describe because it might be that you caused the problem yourself without knowing?" -
I would right click on the albums in MB, choose Edit and then change the tags there. Such as deleting "lbum artist", but it wouldn't stick. It would come back, seemingly randomly in other songs in different albums. Sometimes it would do this- "Various Artists; SPEEDKING Productions" in album artist. I had typed (or autotagged) 'Various Artists' because that album is a compilation containing different artists. But I didn't add the "; SPEEDKING Productions" to the end of it!

Why is it doing this? Is there a setting I can change which will not allow MB to change the album artist field?

psychoadept

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For example, some but not all songs in an album will suddenly have their 'album artist' names changed to "lbum artist". And no, that is not a typo, it will literally add 'lbum', missing out the 'a'.

This sounds similar to a Windows/WMP problem I have heard about: www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=76998

Does it ever affect your FLAC files?  What happens if you use ID3 v2.4?
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Batzarro

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 ID3 v2.4? I don't know anything about that, is that a type of tag format? Concerning FLACs, to be honest while having these issues, I haven't been keeping track of which files have and have not been going wrong. Some files I have are MP3, some FLAC. I would hazard a guess and say actually, I think the issues I've been having have been with my MP3 files.

Concerning WMP, I do have that and have been using it longer than anything else. I don't use it to edit anything whatsoever though, I just use it to open individual podcasts, and to sync podcasts to a seperate MP3 player I only use for podcasts. But WMP is often running in the background when I'm doing other stuff. I remember ages ago, being bothered that it always seems to be 'updating' while it's running. I can't remember the exact wording, but it would be updating something from online. I actually remember a few years ago worrying about it messing up tags in my MP3 files, but it didn't appear to do anything, so I left it.

But maybe it is doing something now. I don't know why it would suddenly be an issue now, after all this time. Like somethings triggered it, weird. But actually about an hour ago, before I read your post, I did think of that. So I switched off the option under 'library' which is called something like 'update library data', just incase. I have never used it to edit my songs, though. I mean I guess it automatically looks in Windows default music folder, but the folder containing my songs is in a diff folder on an externall HDD. I never set WMP to look in there.

On a side note, I have stopped using MP3Tag 2.64 to try to fix the files. Even though I started using it in the first place to fix a problem, I think to add to the confusion, it's caused extra issues. So having several issues at almost the same time has confused me, making me think they're one in the same. MP3Tag may have been what deleted most of the fields on a lot of my tags, through some weird bug. While something else (maybe MB) is what's causing the other issues like spliting the albums up and renaming them. Or maybe it's the other way around. All I know is that my original issues weren't as bad. Just some covers dissapearing and albums splitting themselves into 2 and 3 parts. But when I tried to fix that issue a little while later, bigger problems like many files just losing their tag fields completely occured.

So what I've started doing is edit the tags by using MB completely. It didn't seem to work at first, but if I select the multiples of a split album by control + click, then edit, then rename the album artist to the same thing (even though they were the friggin same originally), then rescan the folder with MB. It then seems to re-connect the albums back together. I just hope it sticks this time, and doesn't just start to randomly freak out again. It will mean taking longer to edit tags, but I'll have to get used to it. I'm more used to tagging with MP3tag and Tag&Rename, they seem faster for tagging loads of files at the same time. But I'm guessing MB will be just as fast if I get used to it.

I've changed the title of this thread, as I'm now thinking I was being a little harsh.
Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 07:59:16 PM by Batzarro

psychoadept

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ID3 v2.4? I don't know anything about that, is that a type of tag format?

It's the most current MP3 tag format, but Windows still uses 2.3.  You can select what format you want in Preferences > Tags in MB.  I just noticed that someone suggested changing to 2.4 would befuddle Windows enough to prevent problems.  But then, it might interpret it as tags missing, and cause more problems.

http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Tags_Preferences#Tag_Storage

Quote
But WMP is often running in the background when I'm doing other stuff. I remember ages ago, being bothered that it always seems to be 'updating' while it's running. I can't remember the exact wording, but it would be updating something from online. I actually remember a few years ago worrying about it messing up tags in my MP3 files, but it didn't appear to do anything, so I left it.

But maybe it is doing something now. I don't know why it would suddenly be an issue now, after all this time. Like somethings triggered it, weird. But actually about an hour ago, before I read your post, I did think of that. So I switched off the option under 'library' which is called something like 'update library data', just incase. I have never used it to edit my songs, though. I mean I guess it automatically looks in Windows default music folder, but the folder containing my songs is in a diff folder on an externall HDD. I never set WMP to look in there.

You wouldn't be the first person for whom WMP was changing things that you hadn't even touched with it: http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?pid=21658#p21658.  Turning off the updates from online is definitely wise.  You could also use MB for your podcasts and syncing.

Quote
I've changed the title of this thread, as I'm now thinking I was being a little harsh.

Thanks.  :)

I don't know much about the other programs you were using, but definitely the fewer variables you have to deal with the easier it will be to track down a problem.  If you see any of the problems happening again, getting screenshots in MB (Tag Inspector, preferably) and in Windows Explorer could be helpful.
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Zak

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So I switched off the option under 'library' which is called something like 'update library data', just incase.
If you enabled either Auto-organise media files or Automatically sweep and organise new files without setting them up correctly, that would explain why your files ended up in strange places. Not sure about the weird tag editing issues, but if you post screenshots of your Library and Tag preferences it would help.

I'd also suggest trying to work out what the problem is on copies of half a dozen tracks rather than spending hours retagging everything and hoping for the best.
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Batzarro

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It's the most current MP3 tag format, but Windows still uses 2.3.  You can select what format you want in Preferences > Tags in MB.  I just noticed that someone suggested changing to 2.4 would befuddle Windows enough to prevent problems.  But then, it might interpret it as tags missing, and cause more problems.
I'm not sure then. I guess I'll just leave it for now.

You could also use MB for your podcasts and syncing.
That would be helpful. I did have a quick look when I first installed MB, for snycing options, couldn't see anything. Does MB sync with Nokia Lumia 800s? That would be great.

Quote from: psychoadept
If you see any of the problems happening again, getting screenshots in MB (Tag Inspector, preferably) and in Windows Explorer could be helpful.
Will do.

Quote from: psychoadept
I don't know much about the other programs you were using, but definitely the fewer variables you have to deal with the easier it will be to track down a problem.
For sure. I haven't had much of a chance to test any further since last week, but from the little more I did, I'm thinking more and more that it is MP3Tag 2.64 (by Florian Heidenreich), which is causing the issues. Which is a shame, because I didn't used to have problems with it, and I've found it's the best way to edit multiple tags at the same time. But it looks like theres a chance that the more songs I choose to edit at one time, the more probable it'll mess up some of their tags. Actually... Now that I think about it, and now that you've informed me of the differing tag formats that are out there, perhaps the tags that are being deleted are not as random as I thought. Perhaps MP3Tag 2.64 is deleting them from a specific tag format. I may be able to check this later, when I'm on my home PC.

Quote from: Zak
If you enabled either Auto-organise media files or Automatically sweep and organise new files without setting them up correctly, that would explain why your files ended up in strange places. Not sure about the weird tag editing issues, but if you post screenshots of your Library and Tag preferences it would help.
I don't think I ever set that up, but I will check anyway.  Also BTW, my file locations didn't change, just the tags.

Quote from: Zak
I'd also suggest trying to work out what the problem is on copies of half a dozen tracks rather than spending hours retagging everything and hoping for the best.
After the problem got worse, resulting in loads of tags getting messed up and me starting this thread, I went through most of them and fixed them. Took about 7 hours, which was annoying but wasn't as bad as my initial horror guess of 100 hours. After that, I've backed up most of my music, incase it happens again.

After I've done a little more testing and messing about, I'll edit this thread as 'solved'. (PS- I've added text to the top of my original post).
Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 11:04:55 AM by Batzarro

psychoadept

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That would be helpful. I did have a quick look when I first installed MB, for snycing options, couldn't see anything. Does MB sync with Nokia Lumia 800s? That would be great.

It should.  You may have to turn on "detect MTP" in preferences before MB will see it.
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Zak

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... I'm thinking more and more that it is MP3Tag 2.64 (by Florian Heidenreich), which is causing the issues.
I've used Mp3tag 2.64 without any problems on hundreds of MP3, OGG and FLAC files. It's a very popular program so I think if it had a bug that randomly deleted tags it would be spotted and fixed immediately.

If you/we are going to figure out what's happening, you should list some specific step-by-step descriptions of how you're adding tags and where they go pear-shaped.
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Batzarro

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... I'm thinking more and more that it is MP3Tag 2.64 (by Florian Heidenreich), which is causing the issues.
I've used Mp3tag 2.64 without any problems on hundreds of MP3, OGG and FLAC files. It's a very popular program so I think if it had a bug that randomly deleted tags it would be spotted and fixed immediately.

If you/we are going to figure out what's happening, you should list some specific step-by-step descriptions of how you're adding tags and where they go pear-shaped.

Ah right, that's worrying. Because I've used it for years also, on many songs, but only started to have these issues when I started using MusicBee. That's why in my original post, I thought it was MB doing the damage. But then I changed my mind. It's worrying to think that it is infact not  MP3Tag 2.64 messing things up. To answer you question in short (for now); I simply select the files on Windows Explorer, right-click, choose MP3Tag, then select multi files inside, and then say, change the tags in the left menu. So say for example, I'll change all the album artist fields to one thing, or add cover art to them.

BTW, I have a quick unrelated question. Figured I'd ask it here, as it would be pretty small to make a whole new thread on it; I have quite a lot of video game music, I currently use the 'album artist' field to indicate the console. So a soundtrack would, for example, say Playstation under album artist. It has worked out OK, but I dunno, maybe there is a better way. Any recommendations? Or do you lot think thats the best way to do it?
Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 07:17:01 PM by Batzarro

psychoadept

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BTW, I have a quick unrelated question. Figured I'd ask it here, as it would be pretty small to make a whole new thread on it; I have quite a lot of video game music, I currently use the 'album artist' field to indicate the console. So a soundtrack would, for example, say Playstation under album artist. It has worked out OK, but I dunno, maybe there is a better way. Any recommendations? Or do you lot think that's the best way to do it?

You could make a custom tag for this, if you need the album artist field for, you know, the album artist.  Or you could use the Publisher field, as it's conveniently situated on the first tag page in the editor, if you don't use it.  (If you decide to change it, the Additional Tagging Tools plugin is helpful for moving tags en masse from one field to another.)
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Batzarro

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BTW, I have a quick unrelated question. Figured I'd ask it here, as it would be pretty small to make a whole new thread on it; I have quite a lot of video game music, I currently use the 'album artist' field to indicate the console. So a soundtrack would, for example, say Playstation under album artist. It has worked out OK, but I dunno, maybe there is a better way. Any recommendations? Or do you lot think that's the best way to do it?

You could make a custom tag for this, if you need the album artist field for, you know, the album artist.  Or you could use the Publisher field, as it's conveniently situated on the first tag page in the editor, if you don't use it.  (If you decide to change it, the Additional Tagging Tools plugin is helpful for moving tags en masse from one field to another.)
I see, ah right. That's an idea, I might do that.

BTW, I just remembered something from about 6 months to a year ago. I had an issue, before I used MB, which was DEFINITELY MP3Tags fault. I'd forgotten about it until now, because I've got used to not using MP3Tag for editing FLAC tags. Basically when I started using FLACS more often, I tried to use MP3Tag with them. It kinda worked, but it would then select the files filename (also all the tags, but I can't remember for sure). Some weird temp file would also appear in the files folder, and then it would completely delete the song file. It was very odd. I continued to use MP3Tag, but just not for FLACs. Anyway, this has nothing to so with MB, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.

That would be helpful. I did have a quick look when I first installed MB, for snycing options, couldn't see anything. Does MB sync with Nokia Lumia 800s? That would be great.

It should.  You may have to turn on "detect MTP" in preferences before MB will see it.
Thanks for this, this could be quite awesome. I'm having some problems though. When I right click on a song or album and choose to send it to the Nokia Lumia 800 (Windows phone), it doesn't work. Both MP3s and FLACS (FLACS having to be converted on the fly, as this Lumia doesn't play them). I'm not at home at the moment, so can't tell you the mssg that comes up, but it just says something like 'cannot send'. I tested this MB feature with a more standard old pendrive MP3 player (Sony Walkman NWZ-B133) and it worked fine. Is there some way I can get the Lumia to work? It does come up in the MB properties.

Thank you.
Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 10:33:14 AM by Batzarro

Batzarro

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Oh darn, looks like my mundane questions have finally sent you to sleep. As the topic has kind of changed, do you think it would be better for me to start a new thread?

psychoadept

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Oh darn, looks like my mundane questions have finally sent you to sleep. As the topic has kind of changed, do you think it would be better for me to start a new thread?

Maybe.  :)

But in response to your last question, have you tried syncing from a playlist instead of using "send to"? What are the results?
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