Author Topic: Audio quality isn't that good  (Read 32002 times)

Steven

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just as an experiment i have made a tweak to the equaliser bands overlap setting to see if you think that makes any difference
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2l6fke7jd7rw94g/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

unzip and replace the existing files

digital_ac3

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just as an experiment i have made a tweak to the equaliser bands overlap setting to see if you think that makes any difference
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2l6fke7jd7rw94g/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

unzip and replace the existing files
YES! Now it doesn't make the audio unclear as much as before. And I reduced the pre-amp to -6.0dB. Now I don't hear the overlap like before. I will listen to more different kind of songs to see if it happens. Back to MB :DDDDD Thanks Steven :)

And I don't get why other MB users don't hear this overlap  :-[ in Winamp and foobar2000 it almost sound the same and clean. But non of them can match he functionalities in MB so I don't wanna move into another player :DD
Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 07:33:56 AM by digital_ac3

digital_ac3

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Thank you everyone who helped me in every possible way. I was trying to find a solution to my problem before I came into this forum and some people have mentioned bad things about how unhelpful and rude this forum is. But it's not :DDD Thanks guys.

ma_t14

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Thank you everyone who helped me in every possible way. I was trying to find a solution to my problem before I came into this forum and some people have mentioned bad things about how unhelpful and rude this forum is. But it's not :DDD Thanks guys.

I'm glad that the problem was solved for you. But just out of curiosity, from what background are you coming from with that statement?  ::)

digital_ac3

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I'm glad that the problem was solved for you. But just out of curiosity, from what background are you coming from with that statement?  ::)
I can't remember from where I saw that. I saw that when I was searching for some good comparison. Anyway thanks again.
And I want to ask you guys again. Does MB, foobar2000, Winamp sound the same? without any plugins or so. Just the built in EQ on a preset?

Steven

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for the same file, same output mode (DirectSound/ ASIO/ WASAPI), no sound enhancement from equalisers and dsp's, and 100% volume then there should be no difference between any player that is correctly decoding a music file

digital_ac3

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for the same file, same output mode (DirectSound/ ASIO/ WASAPI), no sound enhancement from equalisers and dsp's, and 100% volume then there should be no difference between any player that is correctly decoding a music file
Yup. I just tested it and MB, foobar2000, Winamp, they all sound the same. Is it the EQ causing overlapping ?
Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 07:36:57 PM by digital_ac3

Anti

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Does that mean these changes to the equaliser will be a permanent addition?

Steven

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Does that mean these changes to the equaliser will be a permanent addition?
yes i will include the tweaks in v2.4 - i will do another RC version tomorrow so more people see the change and i feel comfortable with how it has been changed

digital_ac3

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I can still hear some overlapping with the new changes also. But not as much as before. At the moment I'm using MB without the EQ.

Steven

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i've done an analysis of the output data where i set the equaliser gain the same for each band to see what the impact on the data was.
I think the output value is probably 10% higher than it should be so i have further tweaked the parameters. I dont think its anything like as "too loud" as you are claiming though
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

unzip and replace the existing files
Anyone reading this you uses the equaliser, could you check you are happy with the new version
Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 09:01:53 PM by Steven

Anti

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My custom presets still all sound OK.
That's about as far as I can comment without A-B testing.

What are we expecting to hear exactly? A little less muddiness in the low end? More distinction in the highs?
Or is this the point where Steve reveals he made no changes, to prove it was psychoacoustic? :P

EDIT:
Again, can't say much without A-B testing, but after more listening my EQ custom presets seem to be a little harsher in the high-mids.
Maybe in the release notes you should mention that custom EQs might have to be re-tweaked.
Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 03:45:51 PM by Anti

digital_ac3

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My custom presets still all sound OK.
That's about as far as I can comment without A-B testing.

What are we expecting to hear exactly? A little less muddiness in the low end? More distinction in the highs?
Or is this the point where Steve reveals he made no changes, to prove it was psychoacoustic? :P

EDIT:
Again, can't say much without A-B testing, but after more listening my EQ custom presets seem to be a little harsher in the high-mids.
Maybe in the release notes you should mention that custom EQs might have to be re-tweaked.
I thought the same with Steve's new update :P I don't know how to explain it. Its like listening with some poor speakers or headset. You know how it sounds when it hit the lows. I guess bit muddy. I currently use Soft Rock and it's ok. Can I you post some EQ values so I can tweak mine? I listen to Rock, Metal mostly. But I do listen to others also :D

digital_ac3

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i've done an analysis of the output data where i set the equaliser gain the same for each band to see what the impact on the data was.
I think the output value is probably 10% higher than it should be so i have further tweaked the parameters. I dont think its anything like as "too loud" as you are claiming though
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

unzip and replace the existing files
Anyone reading this you uses the equaliser, could you check you are happy with the new version

Thank you again Steve :)

Anti

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> Can I you post some EQ values so I can tweak mine?

That won't work. I'm using EQ to compensate for having crap gear (Realtek onboard soundchip -> mini-jack analogue output -> Sennheiser earbuds / Denon headphones / Philips 20 Watt computer speakers), so my EQ settings would be useless to anyone else, since they are specific to my hardware and room.

You appear to be using the default presets, and the ten band EQ? If you're bothered at all about the sound, you should switch to the 15 band EQ, and make your own presets - one for your headphones and one for your speakers.

Turn the preamp down quite a bit (Eg. -6dB) while you make tonal adjustments (you can turn the Windows volume up to compensate while you work). Choose an album that you know very, very well (you know all the small nuances of the music and what it is supposed to sound like, you know it has excellent production, and try not to choose music that has been compressed to hell in 'the loudness wars').

Try adjusting frequencies down as much as up (Eg. to make the bass come together, cutting the mid-highs might be better than boosting the lows). Be as subtle as you can; think twice before adjusting a frequency more than +/- 6 dB (the largest I have is 3 dB). Try not to be fooled that it sounds better just because you made it 'pop' by making it louder - try to think only tonally. When you're happier with the tone, listen to a few more excellently produced albums in different genres and make some tweaks if necessary to average out the adjusted frequencies. Some albums will sound better than others - it's an average you're shooting for.

Keep A-B'ing against no-EQ all the time. Take frequent breaks so your ears don't get fatigued - if you're not used to setting EQ, it could take an hour or two. Don't be afraid to start again from scratch if it starts sounding worse rather than better.

The last step is to bring up the 'spectrum visualisation' (now playing panel settings -> show spectrum visualisations). Set it to 70 pixels high. Turn the Windows volume down a bit. Now play the loudest part of the loudest album you have, and adjust the preamp. You're looking to visually adjust the strongest signals so that they are only just peaking in the visualiser. If you put the gain up too much, you can see too many of the frequencies peaking at the same time, so the wave is flattened. This shows additional compression/clipping (additional to whatever was already used on the album), which you obviously want to avoid. At the same time, you want the gain as high as it will go.

If you are using Directsound (as opposed to WASAPI), once you have the preamp set properly, you can set your windows volume to 50% or 75% or whatever you usually use, then go into the Windows volume mixer to permanently adjust the overall volume of Musicbee relative to everything else.

If you're using headphones a lot or it still sounds a little muddy, I would also recommend using the 'stereo enhancer' DSP, set to no more than three fifths of the first 'notch'. Be aware that there is a bug in this plugin - each time it is enabled, you have to actually move the slider in order to activate the processing. Widening can help to relieve some muddiness and separate out instruments, but if you slide it too far up, it will weaken the sound and it will lose 'punch', so use it very sparingly and subtly.

If you really want to get into EQ, there are free DSP plugins that work with musicbee. Eg. Electri-Q and SA Stereo Tool.
Be prepared to lose a couple of days of your life though, searching for that elusive perfect tone!

And lastly, the sound you get is going to be limited by your equipment. I've got albums that I KNOW can sound incredible, almost as if the band are in the room. But I also know that my equipment can never achieve that with an onboard soundchip and 20€ speakers/headphones. Some guys spend thousands to try to reproduce what the band heard when they were in the control room with the engineer (before it got sent off to some mastering house to be slaughtered by some idiot).
Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 12:40:08 AM by Anti