Author Topic: Library is a mess now after coming over from iTunes. Please help!!  (Read 25423 times)

Steven

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this has the changes for "copy source files to library" as described above.
It will only block re-adding the same file for the functions where files are programatically detected ie. file monitor and file import functions.
Any commands where you manually select the files as "Send to/ Library" or "Send to/ Folder (Copy)" will obey the command and copy the same file as many times as you repeat the command
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_3/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip

redwing

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OK, the answer to my question turned out to be library copies. So original files remain in their monitored folders, and even they get added to inbox when monitored folder setting is set to inbox for new files, but never appear in library.

That seems working fine, but I have to say it's not what it's supposed to behave. The user should untick those folders from monitored folder setting, and if not MB should create duplicates.

My understanding is that "copy" option is equivalent to iTunes' "consolidate library" option. That option would be chosen if the user wants to keep music files in original locations and makes MB manage their copies in library folder in a consolidated state. If that's what the user wants, then he should untick the original folders from monitored folder setting, not to make duplicates. Otherwise MB has to perform some inconsistent behaviors like now.

Steven

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OK, the answer to my question turned out to be library copies. So original files remain in their monitored folders, and even they get added to inbox when monitored folder setting is set to inbox for new files, but never appear in library.
For file monitoring, if the user specifies the target as the Library and has "copy source files into the library" then the copy of the source file will be organised according to the naming template the user enters. Thats what iTunes does right (I havent actually looked at that iTunes behavior for a very long time so i might be wrong).
If instead the target is specified as the Inbox, then a link to the source file is kept until moved to the library. When the user sends the file to the library, a copy of the file is made at that point and organised according to the naming template.
As iTunes doesnt provide Inbox functionality i am not sure you can make a comparison when using the Inbox approach.

redwing

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There's no point to compare MB and iTunes. I just wanted to point out what the copy option is for.

If instead the target is specified as the Inbox, then a link to the source file is kept until moved to the library. When the user sends the file to the library, a copy of the file is made at that point and organised according to the naming template.

I meant monitored folder setting, not the file organizer setting. Due to the inconsistency, now it keeps adding the same files to inbox if the files are sent to library, which become duplicates.

Steven

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you have lost me again - i am not aware of any setting in the file organiser that controls whether a file goes to the Inbox or Library.
Can you be specific about what file organiser setting you are refering to.
I appreciate this might be getting frustrating for you but i cant see what you can see or be sure of the context of some of the comments. If you have time a screenshot might help

edit:
ok, i think i know what you mean
"copy source files into the library" implies to you that any auto-organised files will be immediately copied into the library which doesnt happen immediately if you set the target for new monitored files to be the Inbox.
However i am unclear how you would still get duplicates using the latest version
Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 06:39:50 PM by Steven

redwing

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Sorry, I was confused with Rescan/add files settings. Anyway, what I meant was "add to inbox" option under monitored folders setting. You don't see any inconsistency when that option is ticked? They don't appear in library because they are duplicates but they can appear in inbox?

redwing

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edit:
ok, i think i know what you mean
"copy source files into the library" implies to you that any auto-organised files will be immediately copied into the library which doesnt happen immediately if you set the target for new monitored files to be the Inbox.
However i am unclear how you would still get duplicates using the latest version

What I'm saying is you didn't have to make this change. It's the user's fault, not MB's fault, that's creating duplicates. The user should untick the folders from monitored folder setting. Period.

Steven

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i guess the "copy source files into the library" option really belongs in the main library preferences panel as a choice of:
- add to library
- copy to library
- add to inbox

i am still unsure about your point with the duplicates still being possible with the latest version so could you explain that some more

redwing

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No, it's working fine. Duplicates are not created unless I intentionally add files in inbox to library.

redwing

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My point is not that MB is not working fine as you intended but that it's now behaving inconsistently. For instance, why doesn't it add files in monitored folder to library even if they are duplicates? It should, shouldn't it?

Steven

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can i get comments on this proposal from anyone interested:
- i will move the "copy source files into the library" to the main library preferences panel into the "music library" section.
- it will still only be enabled when "auto-organise audio files" is ticked
- when "copy source files into the library" is ticked, the monitored folders section will be disabled. So that means you could only use this feature for manually added files
- the reason being is that monitored folders will inevitably lead to duplicates being created unless i put in some blocking. Although i did that with the latest 2.3 update i am not very comfortable about it as it cant catch every scenario


redwing

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I remember this case:

I was expecting people to manually add files to the library using the "copy when organising" option.
for folder monitoring, the current implementation assumes the files being copied from are only temporarily in the monitored folder.
So each time it restarts its adding all the files to the monitored folder to the library.
I dont think there is any foolproof way to handle the way you want to use this. I guess it could detect when there is a collision with the files and not add the file to the library in that case, but i need to think about whether i want to do that as it has flaws as well.
It might be best you dont use this functionality and find another way you can acheive what you want as i might simply disable the option for folder monitoring

I understand copy option and folder monitoring can create various problems when they're combined. Some strong warnings would be necessary against such use, but the final choice may leave to users with their own responsibility.

psychoadept

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can i get comments on this proposal from anyone interested:
- i will move the "copy source files into the library" to the main library preferences panel into the "music library" section.
- it will still only be enabled when "auto-organise audio files" is ticked
- when "copy source files into the library" is ticked, the monitored folders section will be disabled. So that means you could only use this feature for manually added files
- the reason being is that monitored folders will inevitably lead to duplicates being created unless i put in some blocking. Although i did that with the latest 2.3 update i am not very comfortable about it as it cant catch every scenario

I think this sounds good.  So if "copy source files" is enabled, you must manually scan the files to be organized, or if you have monitored folders enabled and you want copies, you need to the copying yourself.

How will you alert users who have both of these features enabled (assuming any do), when they upgrade?
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Bee-liever

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can i get comments on this proposal from anyone interested:
- i will move the "copy source files into the library" to the main library preferences panel into the "music library" section.
- it will still only be enabled when "auto-organise audio files" is ticked
- when "copy source files into the library" is ticked, the monitored folders section will be disabled. So that means you could only use this feature for manually added files
- the reason being is that monitored folders will inevitably lead to duplicates being created unless i put in some blocking. Although i did that with the latest 2.3 update i am not very comfortable about it as it cant catch every scenario

I don't think the problem is with the way it's been done, but more with the actual wording of the option.
I think most new users don't realise that in MB your "Library" is actually the library setting folder that may or may not contain the source files for music, podcasts, playlists etc. Most other players refer to the "Library" as the location of the source files.
IMO most of the problems occur with new users, when selecting the "copy source files into the library", are assuming it means to add the files into MB so they can be viewed.
I don't believe they know that source files and library are different (especially AFATK they have already organised them with auto-sweep), and MB is creating a copy of the file within the library file.

Maybe just a warning pop-up that "This option will duplicate source files if Library and source files are in the same location" (or probably worded better than that  :D  ) is what is needed.
Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 09:55:42 PM by Bee-liever
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Steven

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wording change and warning messages are now displayed. No attempt is made any more to block duplicate files when folder monitoring is enabled and "copy files when adding to library" is enabled

http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_3/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip