I usually cringe when somebody calls a fictional group of people 'of a higher level' then another fictional group of people.
The fact that most MusicBee forum members know how to keep their posts on topic, and mostly discuss issues specifically relevant to MusicBee itself doesn't mean many of them don't have a deeper knowledge of- and experience with many technical aspects of audio, and/or have excellent ears and equipment.
There are people who are of the order that they can make audio formats, and there are people who are not. I am not, and I highly doubt you are. Nor do I think that any of those who have commented on this post, nor most of the people using MusicBee or on the forums can make an audio format.
There are also people who care a lot about super fine details of audio formats. I am also not one of them. I dabble around the edges. I would hazard a guess that most of the people on the MusicBee forum are similar to me in that respect.
There are people who are far more passionate than me about all of this. People who care deeply that the ".lossless" part stays on their file name. I am not really one of them either. I just saw that MusicBee put it in, and I realised it was somewhat useful, and I tried to help the community by preserving its proper use.
People act as if I am asking for something that is difficult, when in fact it was something very simple - that MusicBee not treat file names in two different ways in two different functions. All I was asking for was that MusicBee use file names consistently. A simple change to a regex reference in the code would fix the problem, and not create any problem for any other use case. Probably one or two lines of code. Something a little like the attempt of @Frankz earlier in this topic, but not quite, and internal to the file handling dialogue, not having to be added as a workaround by the user every time.
I did not choose to make this difficult, I spelt out a clear, simple and concise set of steps to replicate a bug, which is what I have been used to doing in many programming/bug testing projects previously, but I am absolutely amazed at how difficult forum members have tried to make this, how little they have listened to the simple problem I tried to highlight, and how much they have tried to take it off-topic, some while insisting that I am the one taking it off-topic.
What people did was make a mountain out of a molehill and then assume I was either dumb or difficult, so I have politely continued to defend my simple request.
A few things that people have tried to (wrongly) argue, all of which have actually been taking this off-topic, and which I have refuted fully in every case in order to bring it back on-topic* MusicBee was acting as intended/designed/expected - No. MusicBee is being inconsistent in handling file names from one function (ripping using the LossyFLAC switch) to another (moving the generated files to organised folder)
* That my naming filter in Move To Organised Folder was wrong and I should use <filename> instead of <Disc-Track#> <Title> - No. In fact to use <filename> defeats the purpose of using Move to Organised Folder, which is designed purely to *change* filenames. If you use the <filename> tag, the file name will not be changed at all - it literally does nothing, because the input <filename> equals the output <filename> when <Disc-Track#> <Title> does not necessarily equal the original <filename>
* There was a suggestion that a suffix is not a file extension - No. the Wikipedia article on File Extensions says that in its first line
* That there is no such thing as a double file extension - No - .tar.gz anyone?
* That the LossyFLAC format is invalid - No. It was valid enough that it has been accepted for ten years, and that there is a switch already in MusicBee to use it, which is how I came across it.
* That the *.3 file format is the only permissible file format. Well, the *.3 format doesn't exist any more, and dots are simply characters, and the total file name is now up to 255 characters, and then only limited by not being able to use a few special characters
* That Musicbee is only on Windows, and therefore, again (snore!) we should stick to 8.3 - Well, have you ever heard about cross platform file use? Or MusicBee users who use several platforms? Or
this topic about running MusicBee on Linux? Or
this topic about running MusicBee on Mac?
Now, if all that off-topic rubbish doesn't make you snore, add to it *your* additional attempt to take it off topic;
Lossy flac is lossy
- The guys who created it call it lossy
- It removes audiobits, so it is not bitperfect anymore, so it's lossy.
- If it was not lossy, they would have just added some additional 'flac9' setting to the existing FLAC encoding algorithm, so it's lossy.
I *never* claimed that LossyFLAC is not lossy. How could I? It's in the file naming schema, the one that I am arguing should be kept, not dropped during a Move operation!
I actually stated in my most recent post that LossyFLAC was lossy, and used the phrases; "The lossy part is getting rid of significant bits used to record total silence below the noise floor", "This silence is filtered out through a pre-processing stage, which is lossy", "the loss is only information that is totally redundant", "To many people LossyFLAC means effectively no loss, but file size savings. To some people that's an abomination" and "it has had the lossy treatment on data that LossyFLAC deems to be null"
To argue that I said LossyFLAC is not lossy is totally false. It just shows you lack basic comprehension skills.
To argue that any of the above rubbish is me taking things off topic is totally false. It is people like you who don't read the five times or more I say "lossy", or the forum topic title, and similar misreadings or assumed readings of what I have written.
You are probably confused with the equivalent of the never-ending 24 bits vs 16 bits debates.
In my opinion (and many very high level groups of people agree on this), 24 bits audio contains no useful additional audio information compared to 16 bits audio.
(At the end-user ('audiophiles' included) playback level that is, at the recording/mixing/mastering stages it is an invaluable asset)
But would I agree to call a 16bits file that was converted from a 24bits source, 24bits?
Of course not. It may sound absolutely identical, but it is not bit-identical.
So compared to the 24 bit source it is lossy. (well, actually not in all cases, but certainly in most)
So any debate on lossy flac vs lossless flac is comparable to that. (and boring after 10 years)
I did not say anything about 16 or 24 bit, nor did I mention sampling rates, or anything but file names. That is *you* taking things off topic. You might as well state that I was saying the guy on the grassy noll didn't shoot Kennedy, or that the moon landing was faked. I didn't say any of that either.
By now this thread is mostly about arguing single vs. double extensions, lossy vs. lossless audio, calling something a bug or not calling it a bug.
That's all fine, and perhaps that all interests you, but you should then maybe consider to change the title of this thread?
I was very careful to keep the name of the topic simple and on-topic. It was about file naming being inconsistent between two different functions of MusicBee.
If you are really interested in having changed what you think should be changed, it would be wise to follow the advice that experienced members have given you before:
Create a brief and concise wishlist topic.
If you think this thread helps building your case, you could add a link to it.
Now, that just says to me that you didn't even read my first post, where I created a brief and concise request as a bug before it was wrongly moved to questions.
And when I asked politely, saying please, that it be moved back to bugs, I was dismissed, so I provided evidence to refute everything that has been thrown up, and yet it still is attracting people who are dismissing it on the basis of things that I have never said.
And so I actually re-filed another simple, brief, on-topic bug report, linked to this topic, long before you suggested it.
So, to sum upI filed a bug request with a simple, clear title, asking for something simple, where MusicBee was behaving as expected in one function but not another. I asked for consistency.
I provided a simple case to demonstrate how to replicate the bug.
I have at all times tried to keep this on topic, simple, polite and factual.
I don't understand why one person moved this out of bugs in the first place, and why it couldn't be moved back when requested. I also don't understand why now three people have kept arguing so hard against something that is simple to understand, extremely easy to fix and permissible in terms of file naming conventions.
Sure, double file extensions are not the norm, but they are not unheard of, and have been commonly used for decades, even on Windows of late. Additionally, this is using an externally derived format where the intricacies of file naming have been argued and settled for ten years, and I did not request anything but consistent use of this external format. MusicBee should either use it as is, or not use it at all, or have an option to modify the behaviour either way consistently in every case.
Sure, you might not like the LossyFLAC audio format, or you might think there are enough formats out there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a valid use case. I personally don't use AAC, ALAC, WAV or many other formats, but I am happy for you and others to use them and to have MusicBee function consistently while you are doing so.
Sure, you might think that this is a corner case, and that might be true, but it is a very very simple fix that will not affect any other usage scenario for MusicBee.
If there is a way to fix an inconsistency that is easy, acceptable and which preserves all existing functionality, while also making a part of the MusicBee market feel listened to, the only question is; "Why not?"