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General => MusicBee Wishlist => Topic started by: lnminente on February 05, 2013, 01:15:24 AM

Title: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 05, 2013, 01:15:24 AM
Redwing asked me some months ago for starting a post for speaking about proposals for making MB simpler and more consistent between its different areas and in relation with standard usual software in windows, so here it is. Feel free to add any +1,0,-1 saying why, for any new proposal adding a number for easy commenting. Here are some:

1) Hotkey for editing Now playing track. That would be useful when want to fix mispelled or add new tags from the theatre mode. Or change the behavior of the hotkey for selected tags for editing now playing track when no song is selected or MB is in TM at full window/screen

I'm in theater mode and i see a tag which needs to be fixed, would be nice a hotkey instead of coming back to main windows and search for the playing song, select it, right click menu, edit
(http://s3.postimage.org/u01sk5z3n/fix.png)


2) Miniplayer, hability of removing stop button and volume slider. As shown in this mockup, also added some extra mockups for simplicity for seeking:
(http://s18.postimage.org/hw0lb1v1l/miniplayer.png)


3) Alternative mini player option. A new option for showing the actual player in the main view in place of miniplayer. So if we are using a customized xmlc file, the miniplayer would be customized too.

Then i could have my usual player controls with its tricks/shortcuts and the behavior i'm used to as the miniplayer:
(http://s4.postimage.org/t1o8domrh/player.png)


4) Hability of choosing the skin from the shift+click execution of MB
& 5) Also would be nice an easy way for testing MB with the default settings from the Shift+click execution. Or maybe a selection of the last saved each two days. With that we could do better betatesting.
(http://s4.postimage.org/n2nwq41tp/shift.png)


6) Stablish where and when use Now playing, now playing list, and playing track terms for avoiding mistakes.


7) Easier switching between Playing track panels modes. Currently is complex doing it. Enabling the one at the bottom is easy, but now change to one in a tab (which is not as easy as clicking one entry in the browser panel), and again try to use the one at the bottom. Very complex, the button at the bottom has dissapeared, doesn't matter if you close the playing track in a tab or not.


8.) Layout: More than one year with MB, and still find this confusing, the moving navigation buttons depending on left panel. It also makes the address bar too small with a normal window when you have some custom buttons. Navigation bar should occupy the full width of the windows, and don't change depending in side panels.

Mockup proposed: Navigation arrows always at left border, search box always at right border, address box not shrinking. Also moved tabs to the left
(http://s18.postimage.org/6qf0i7ip5/Navigation.png)


9) Internals: The function for editing files, if there is one  ;D  I wonder if the internal function could ask for confirmation as default. And Steven shouldn't have to remember enabling the confirmation, but instead would have to remember disabling it.
Just imaging/guessing: edit(file, id3.2, year, new value, no confirmation)
So if edit(file, id3.2, year, new value) is used it should automatically ask for confirmation, and is safer forgetting not removing the confirmation than forgetting not adding it.


10) Lyrics: I use minilyrics for showing lyrics and editing/storing them in an external file. I miss an easy way to telling MB to forget about searching/showing any lyrics panel because i'm using an external plugin for them.


11) Hability of phisically deleting a file when being in the Now playing tab, not only removing it from the playlist.
Edit: As Scampbll pointed out is possible to do it pressing shift+delete, i'm asking from the right click menu, like it happens in the other tabs.
(http://s7.postimage.org/hac9qq4dn/delete.png)


12) Teather mode, end the screen size fragmentation. Newer TM could add the size of the screen for which is designed, and MB could resize it to look the same way in smaller or bigger screens


13) In the player controls at the main window, all the buttons has some tooltip showing some info. When hovering over the playing track text it could show the bitrate info, or the complete title if it isn't shown completely.
(http://s17.postimage.org/jgux47ijj/tooltip.png)


14) Bookmarks inside library, while MB has a browser the first thinking i have is for showing a web in a tab, but its a fragment of a track.  Suggest renaming them to Audio bookmarks to dissipate any doubt.
& 15) Would be nice the possibility of adding real web bookmarks to the browser panel. Something like www.discogs.com/search?type=release&sort=year&sort_order=asc&artist=<Artist>&title=<Title> would be more convenient there than inside the playing track panel for some reasons: bigger screen, possibility of copying/editing the current address


16) Rating for no stars clicking in the edit panel is different than clicking in the main panel, it shows 0 stars and requires another click more for no stars


NOTE: If you really would like any of the proposals shown in this tread to get done, feel free for opening a new thread and asking for it, as a big post like this one is really not a good way for getting them done
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: redwing on February 05, 2013, 07:43:55 AM
Wow, you didn't forget it. :)

Wonderful proposal! I can see how much thought you have put into this. Must have taken some time to aggregate these. I really hope discussions and suggestions out of this thread will contribute to streamline the current MB in every detail.
 
BTW I haven't read each item carefully yet, but just a quick query about #4 & #5. As you know, currently shift+MB execution opens up library selection pane. So are you proposing to change the hotkey to another, or do you mean something else?
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 05, 2013, 10:47:05 AM
I keep my promises ;)

For 4) & 5) i mean adding more options to the current dialog, specially adding any option which would require to restart MB
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: psychoadept on February 06, 2013, 06:24:47 AM
11 can be done with Shift+Delete.

I agree in principle with simplicity and consistency as a principle, and about many of these.  A few I don't understand, but that's okay.  I am finding many other things that could probably be improved, as I look into things for the wiki.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 06, 2013, 10:22:41 AM
For 11) That's right but not everybody know that hotkey. The menu should how "Delete" for being consistent with the other tabs

Tell me what proposal you don't understand and i will try to explain then better. Feel free to add more proposals related with this principle
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 06, 2013, 12:24:42 PM
Added some mockups

I had one idea about theater mode, playing track and bookmarks. When have it more reasoned will post a mockup
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: beeing good on February 06, 2013, 02:30:30 PM
I don't agree with 8. I would rather have the extra vertical space for the left and right panels than have that bar going all the way across, it wouldn't seem to serve any purpose at all having it going all the way across where as as it is at the moment you do gain more room for the Now Playing List etc.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 07, 2013, 12:11:23 AM
Well, sad to say but its the option i would like most :/ It's not only space in a bar, i see it hierarchycally more important, it has the search bar, command buttons, address box to know if you are browsing an album, with filters or not, or a folder in your computer, and that needs space. Also would give you the efficency of a fast click in the back button because you always will know exactly where it is. I see all that has a lot more importance than an entry easily scrollable with the wheel mouse at side panels. Also see it as the menu button, it has to be always there, not moving, for hierarchy and for efficency too.

And for consistency with the most used apps with tabs:
Firefox:
(http://s11.postimage.org/m9iz9uj4j/firefox_panel_lateral_2.png)
Chrome:
(http://s7.postimage.org/6epuhbt17/chrome.png)
Again Firefox, being this capture from a library browser having direct relation with MB:
(http://s7.postimage.org/ld89br83f/firefox_library.png)

Also windows explorer has the back button at a fixed place and later is the side panel:
(http://s4.postimage.org/6954mqswd/explorer.png)
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: psychoadept on February 07, 2013, 12:17:12 AM
The only trouble I see with it is if the navigation buttons are top left and the player is in the top, the controls are going to be right next to each other and it will be very easy to hit one or the other by accident.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 07, 2013, 12:29:13 AM
Thanks Scampbll, the good thing is we can easily try it disabling the left panel. I have done some testing, there are currently 6 pixels not clickeable between the back button and the seek bar with the standard skin:
(http://s18.postimage.org/6zddcn9zt/top.png)

Also you can see the back button in my TM :D  http://s3.postimage.org/u01sk5z3n/fix.png
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: psychoadept on February 07, 2013, 12:44:13 AM
Well, I'm less talking about the physical problem of hitting one or the other as the mental problem.  :)  As it stands I no longer have the player at the top of my layout, but I still want to hit the navigation back button instead of the previous track back button sometimes.  I bet more people would want player controls on the right if this were implemented.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: redwing on February 07, 2013, 01:53:59 AM
I remember lnminente proposed the same idea several months ago, and I thought it really made sense. With the examples of other applications, now it makes more sense. Aside from its immediate benefits (fixed width of address bar and search bar, more toolbar buttons), it will make using MB more comfortable in the subconscious level with the more consistent layout.
As for the worries about mishitting buttons, while I've been using MB with player on the top and left panel hidden there's been no such accident. Of course it's just me, and it might be the case with some other people, but I doubt it will be a major problem with the majority.

What about the "New Tab" button? Chrome and Firefox got rid of it long time ago and have been using a small tab with + mark (Firefox) or none (Chrome). I'd like to see a little bigger Back, Next buttons and a small Next Tab button next to the last tab in place of New Tab button. Then Back button can be placed on the leftmost, which feels just easy and comfortable.

Edit: It's been a long time since I tried "Show Tabs in Caption Bar" option, so I forgot MB already supports the FF-like layout with the option. So I guess my wish is to apply the layout to other options as well.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: SimonBRT on February 08, 2013, 12:19:23 AM
i have felt for a long time that it is frustrating that the location of the back button is not constant.  this really does not make sense (though i believe understand the current reasoning behind it).  it has also been in the back of my mind that this browsing buttons/address bar/command buttons/search bar area would make more sense if it always stretched across the entire panel.

i understand what being good is saying about the lost vertical space in the side panels, but in my opinion it would be a worthwhile trade-off for a more consistent/intuitive layout.  you would lose a little space at the top of the left navigation panel but only a couple of rows.  above the right panel it currently shows 'Track Information' or 'Now Playing' as a header.  I do not see losing this header as a big loss.  Perhaps it could be written in the status bar at the bottom of the panel instead? 

in short, i am supporting something along the lines of the bottom image in this mockup

(http://s18.postimage.org/6qf0i7ip5/Navigation.png)
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: Bee-liever on February 08, 2013, 02:01:56 AM
Re:#8  +1
I even suggested this back here (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=7240.msg44721#msg44721) as part of the revamp of "Now Playing", but support, it seemed, was scarce at the time.

above the right panel it currently shows 'Track Information' or 'Now Playing' as a header.  I do not see losing this header as a big loss.  Perhaps it could be written in the status bar at the bottom of the panel instead? 

double-clicking on the 'Track Information' header opens/closes the 'Now Playing' section of the RH panel; double-clicking on the 'Now Playing' header floats the 'Now Playing' panel, so it might be hard to put them in the status panel, but I do think they could be reduced in height, similar to 'Playing Track/Selected Track' header.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: psychoadept on February 08, 2013, 03:09:26 AM
Re:#8  +1
I even suggested this back here (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=7240.msg44721#msg44721) as part of the revamp of "Now Playing", but support, it seemed, was scarce at the time.

I wouldn't actually mind this, provided that the headers were removed or reduced, as below.


above the right panel it currently shows 'Track Information' or 'Now Playing' as a header.  I do not see losing this header as a big loss.  Perhaps it could be written in the status bar at the bottom of the panel instead?  

I agree with this.

Quote
double-clicking on the 'Track Information' header opens/closes the 'Now Playing' section of the RH panel; double-clicking on the 'Now Playing' header floats the 'Now Playing' panel, so it might be hard to put them in the status panel, but I do think they could be reduced in height, similar to 'Playing Track/Selected Track' header.

Wow, those are REALLY non-obvious functions.  I still hadn't stumbled across them, and I've been *trying* to find all different ways to do things.  Surely there's a better way to implement them?  Add floating window as an option in the configure layout menu, maybe?  (My post about layout options would seem to make this a good option, too.)  A little button for the Now Playing list?

On my little 13" monitor, I would love to see the headers go away.  One of the few things I miss from Media Monkey is an option to hide all the headers.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: SimonBRT on February 08, 2013, 03:30:49 AM
double-clicking on the 'Track Information' header opens/closes the 'Now Playing' section of the RH panel; double-clicking on the 'Now Playing' header floats the 'Now Playing' panel...

I've been using MB for well over two years and I did not know this!  I think these options could be accessed via menus/hotkeys if necessary.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: Bee-liever on February 08, 2013, 03:48:43 AM
did you know that if you double-click the 'Lyrics' header, it floats the Lyrics panel; and if you double-click 'Library Explorer' header, it expands/collapses the list to fill the LH panel?
Maybe I need to put these into the 'MusicBee's "hidden" features' post?
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: redwing on February 08, 2013, 04:56:33 AM
did you know that if you double-click the 'Lyrics' header, it floats the Lyrics panel; and if you double-click 'Library Explorer' header, it expands/collapses the list to fill the LH panel?
Maybe I need to put these into the 'MusicBee's "hidden" features' post?

Yes, those are really helpful tips, except this one that's already there.

Library Explorer: Resize / Maximise
--------------------------------------------
To drag the library explorer up/down you can grab the panel-header wherever you want (You don't have to hit exactly the top of the header, where the resize-cursor appears).

You can also double-click the header to maximise the panel up to the top (and back down again to the recent position).
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 08, 2013, 11:46:09 AM
Thanks for commenting guys, hope this time we can solve the back button thing :)

Moderators: I think it could be convenient splitting the thread since http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8795.msg51275#msg51275 to this post for not eclipsing the other points. TIA!
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: redwing on February 08, 2013, 12:51:31 PM
Now, regarding Playing Track panel (#7), I agree with lnminente that currently it's a pain to access the panel and to switch between tab and bottom pane. This is what I propose.

1. Make MB remember the last position for Playing Track panel. Then the button in the bottom opens up either tab or bottom pane for the panel. Its current tooltip, saying "Open Panel" and "Hide Panel," works perfect.

2. Add a right-click menu item of "Show in a Tab" and "Show in the Bottom Pane" above "Customize Panel Settings," to bottom pane and tab, respectively, so that users can easily switch between them.

3. "Do Not Display" option is not necessary. The button in the bottom should be always available.

4. Now, if this is implemented, how would it work? If you want to open the panel, click the button. Then it will open the last position, either tab or bottom. To switch between them, right-click on it and select "Show ..." item. To exit, click again the button for both (closing tab also works for tab). Then MB will remember the position and next time open it up again.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on February 09, 2013, 12:19:06 AM
For 7, 14 & 15) I am "working" in the idea of a bigger change related. My personal view is:
- Feel like Playing track in a tab is near a duplicity of theater mode in a window.
- Playing track in a tab is way different than Playing track at the bottom. Both have same links, but feel the one at the bottom more convenient for "internet services" and last.fm plugin than for full web links.
-For web links used in the the PT in a tab, feel it more convenient directly opening then in a tab. So its easier to copy or edit the current address, more consistent with a browser, and has more vertical space.


Edit: Added mockups ====================
So with that in mind, the idea by now is:

Playing track at the bottom:
-Leaving the button in the status bar only for showing the playing track at the bottom, being always visible.
-If opening this panel causes incompatibilities with an opened playing track in a tab in background, then close the PT in a tab.
-In PT at the bottom removing the web links by default (leaving the possibility for adding them) and using only web services or plugins intended for a narrow and wide panel.
(http://s3.postimage.org/hbn2no0yb/PTbotton.png)

PT in a tab:
-For simplicity fusing Theater mode and Playing track in a tab
-Hability to switching to full screen, the same hotkeys than in TM in a window.
-Removing the bar with links in PT in a tab
(http://s18.postimage.org/4sr3botqx/PT_in_a_tab.jpg)

Browsing panel:
-Rename library\bookmarks to library\audio bookmarks
-As playing track in a tab opens in a tab, add an entry to the left browsing panel. If opening it causes incompatibilities to the PT at the bottom then collapse this last one, keeping its button at the bottom.
-Move the web links in playing track, to a bookmarks folder named "Playing track links"
-Add a new folder for visualiser, being able to opening playing track in a tab or the other visualisers
(http://s8.postimage.org/62n0y0kfp/browsing.png)

I guess this can be considered a radical change, so please people comment :)
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: redwing on February 23, 2013, 02:13:00 AM
After proposing a support for the ability to hide location bar and Playing Track panel's tabs for compact player mode with embedded TM (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8951.msg52326#msg52326), now I am finding some ideas in lnminente's proposal for embedded TM thought-provoking.

Some points I'd like to add to this discussion:

1.
-Add a new folder for visualiser, being able to opening playing track in a tab or the other visualisers


Maybe it's worth reconsidering embedded TM as a visual mode like visualizer instead of a tab or panel fixed in certain positions. What if the user can activate a TM in a tab with last.fm recommendation plugin in the bottom at the same time? What about a visualizer in a tab with a TM in the bottom pane? How about one TM view in a tab with another TM view in the bottom?

2.
-Removing the bar with links in PT in a tab


I was surprised to find this idea had been already proposed here.

Move the web links in playing track, to a bookmarks folder named "Playing track links"


That could work.

And I would propose auto-collapsing location bar and status bar when TM in a tab is activated with the ability to restore them with mouse-over. Imagine the picture with lnminente's no-tabs-bar mockup.

(http://s18.postimage.org/4sr3botqx/PT_in_a_tab.jpg)

3. Then why embedded TM instead of full TM where you can design whatever as you like? There are certain advantages and conveniences of embedded TM (e.g. for customized compact player mode).

- You can use MB's native player (standard and flat-out) and various controls.
- You can auto-open side panels when you want to select a playlist or a node or to browse Now Playing list.
- Auto-opening location bar offers more convenient functionality with toolbar buttons.
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on August 03, 2013, 12:23:11 PM
Up :) or forget :(
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: Steven on August 03, 2013, 01:57:05 PM
some of the things seem reasonable to implement but i probably wont be looking at requests for things i dont already have in mind until september
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on August 03, 2013, 03:01:27 PM
These proposals took me an important amount of time so glad to see they won't be forgotten. Thanks Steven :)
Title: Re: Simplicity and consistency
Post by: lnminente on August 22, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
For indexing purposes: Speaking about simplifying the auto-dj feature here http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=10527.msg62909#msg62909