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MusicBee & Add-Ons => Customizations => Plugins => Topic started by: hiccup on July 15, 2021, 05:44:56 PM

Title: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on July 15, 2021, 05:44:56 PM
This is a genre hierarchy list that can be added to MusicBee as a replacement for (or as addition to) the genre hierarchy that is by default included in MusicBee.

(note: the minimum MusicBee version required for this is 3.4)

This 'enhanced' version contains all genres, and all variations on their names (aka's) as present in the genre databases of MusicBrainz, Discogs, RateYourMusic (Sonemic), and a few from Wikidata.
It currently contains some 2100+ 2500+ 2700+ genres and 250+ 470+ aka's.
(MusicBee's current default genre list has less than half of that)

If you make use of this list and MusicBee's auto-tagging function, or if you use other tagging software such as Picard or mp3tag, all retrieved genres will be matched and categorised in appropriate groups.
By enabling and using MusicBee's 'Tag hierarchy explorer' you can then conveniently navigate through them.

There are three basic differences between the default one that comes with MusicBee and this enhanced version:

1.
MusicBee's default genre hierarchy list is flat and basic.
Which makes it easy to navigate and quickly see all music in a selected main category without the need to consider deeper navigation or having subdivisions that could be considered to be too subjective or biassed.

It will look like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/59SYufT.png)


This enhanced version has 2nd level subdivisions for most main genres, and a 3rd for some. It can look like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/DYeKUqF.png)


2.
This enhanced version contains a lot more genres, and gets updated both with new genres from MusicBrainz, Discogs and RYM/Sonemic, and with other genres and possibly new categories that I consider useful and sensible myself.

Suggestions on those are welcome, I will add them if I agree with them.
(I already added some additional Metal genres and the Metalcore category after good suggestions from smann)

3.
This version also reads and makes use of the 'subgenre' tag.
(If you are using it by means of having created a custom tag for it)



download Enhanced genre hierarchy list (https://rebrand.ly/MB_Enhanced_genre_hierarchy)
 

howto:
- extract the downloaded rar file.
- put the Enhanced genre hierarchy.txt file in the folder:  MusicBee> AppData> TagHierarchyTemplates
  (note: this folder will have been created by MusicBee only after you have enabled the Tag Hierarchy Explorer panel at least once)
- (re)start MusicBee
- click the header of the Tag Hierarchy Browser panel to select the Enhanced genre hierarchy.

- - -
Update:
The list now includes 'subgenre tagger' functionality for if you use a custom tag for 'subgenre' in addition to the 'genre' tag.
See the next post for further explanation on that.
- - -


Optional addition: Genre grouping text file


In the download link you will also find a text file named 'Genre category grouping'.
It is updated to contain all the genres that are used in the enhanced genre hierarchy file, and can be added to MusicBee so that MusicBee's Genre Categories matches these 'Enhanced Genres'.

howto:
Open the .txt file in a text editor.
In MusicBee navigate to Preferences > Tags (2) > Group genres > Categorise
Copy the contents of the text file into the genre categorisation editor panel.
Save and close.

(https://i.imgur.com/TNiSF2A.png)
(for this to work well, be sure your MB installation is patched to at least version 3.4.7770)


For classical music aficionados with a black belt, using Picard and it's Classical Extras plugin

Besides for getting genre tags, you can also setup Classical Extras to write a tag for the period in which the piece was composed.
The Enhanced Genre Hierarchy is capable of making use of that too. The result can be like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/rYxTEm8.png)

To align the periods that the browser will read and the plugin will write, you will need to setup the 'Genre etc. > Periods' panel of the CE plugin like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/PPIyGHh.png)

Code
Period › Medieval, 1150,1402; Period › Renaissance, 1398, 1602; Period › Baroque, 1598,1752; Period › Classical, 1748,1820; Period › Early Romantic, 1800,1849; Period › Late Romantic, 1850,1912; Period › Modern, 1908,1975; Period › Contemporary, 1950,2525
You will also need to use a script that writes and adds these period names to the regular 'genre' tag.
How to do that is beyond the scope of this thread.

- - -

update:

If you are curious to see this enhanced genre hierarchy table fully populated in MusicBee yourself, I have created a set of (empty) flac files that together contain all genres that exist in my enhanced genre table. (close to 2500 of them at this moment)
See post #28 (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=35266.msg207242#msg207242) for more details.

- - -

Note:
This topic is about the 'Enhanced Genre Hierarchy list' I created to be optionally used in MusicBee's Tag Hierarchy Explorer panel.
If you have questions or issues with MusicBee's Tag Hierarchy Explorer itself, please go here:
https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32556.0



note:
This is neither a new post nor a new addition. This was introduced and posted a while back.
But regrettably the original post and the resulting thread was completely deleted recently, due to a forum mishap related to spam removal.
This post and the two following are an effort to re-create the original posts and preserve the replies and input from other forum members.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on July 15, 2021, 05:48:58 PM
An addition was made to the Enhanced Genre Hierarchy list:

Subgenre Tagger (https://bit.ly/MB_Enhanced_Genre_Hierarchy)

It's a tool intended to be helpful when you are using a custom Subgenre tag to complement the default Genre tag.
It will suggest relevant subgenres for your files that already contain a genre tag that is considered to be a 'main' genre.

The idea behind this subgenre concept is that you use the Genre tag for more broad and generic genre names, and an additional (custom) Subgenre tag for refining them further.

The taxonomy of this Subgenre Tagger is identical to the Enhanced Genre Hierarchy browser.
So if you use this Subgenre Tagger feature to write your subgenres, your music will be categorised correctly when using the Enhanced Genre Hierarchy browser.

Howto:

Make sure you have a created a custom Subgenre tag.
Enable the Tag Hierarchy Explorer panel (Arrange Panels> Panels Configuration) and select the Enhanced Genre Hierarchy file.

Now when you are editing a file that contains a known main genre in the Genre tag, you will see a drop-down menu for the Subgenre tag that will show subgenres relevant to that main genre.


These are the main genres that will get proposals for subgenres:

(https://i.imgur.com/a5cU4yym.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/a5cU4yy.png)

Some examples for Classical, Jazz, Electronic:

(https://i.imgur.com/D4iUGO4m.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/D4iUGO4.png)

Update 1.200821 has improved subgenre suggestions for 'Metal':


(https://i.imgur.com/IFJG9t2m.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/IFJG9t2.png)

- - - - -

update:  This functionality has been removed.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on July 15, 2021, 05:51:55 PM
This post and the next are an effort to recreate and preserve the replies that were deleted when the forum mishap happened.


#1 Mr. Trev
Very nice. Thanks.

Although it may mean more work for me (being more specific with tags) since all my stuff is using fairly generic genre tags - mostly to keep my portable devices from getting confused ;)


#2 hiccup
Thank you Mr. Trev.
It can indeed be an incentive to waste more time on your hobby ;-)

But this is also intended as a potential time saver.
If you use auto-tagging, and the tags source providers supply good quality genre tags… , it should save time and make navigating and exploring your library better and easier.

For now sourced genre tags are often disappointing, but I do see some improvements and progress being made here and there.
I am convinced in the long run it will get better and better, and the need for manual tagging will become less and less.

So MusicBee will then be just a little bit ahead of the game ;-)


#3 Mr. Trev
Indeed, the rub has always been trying to find a place where the genre tags match up with my ideal.

How well does MB handle keeping the genre tag as database only - if even possible?

I've been thinking of maybe creating a copy of MB (gotta love the portable version) and using that to experiment with. I was thinking of using what Musicbrainz Picard picks (maybe using the last.fm plugin) and see what happens. If there isn't any issue with keeping the genre changes just saved to the database (not written to the actual files) it wouldn't be that big of a deal if I end with with a total mess - I'd just restore my backup.
If it actually works out OK, then I'd commit to writing the tags to the files.
The other thing for me to consider is it's going to affect my DAPhile server and how to deal with syncing to my devices (eg. I don't need my jazz tunes broken down to hard bop, 3rd stream, etc. Blanket jazz is good enough for that)

Sorry for going a bit OT,
Cheers


#4 Adson
hiccup, thank you very much for sharing this useful genre list enhancement with us.

I often had problems setting the appropiate (difficult word for Germans ;-) ) genre for my music files.
There are so many different flavours and subdivisions in a lot of the general genres.

I am looking forward to try your plugin this evening on my home computer.


#5 hiccup
You're welcome Adson.
Please also check post #2.
It describes another tool I have just added that can be useful if you use a custom Subgenre tag additional to the generic Genre tag.
(and I updated the Enhanced Genre Hierarchy browser file too)

Please feel free to give any feedback on your experiences. This is all still under development, and fresh eyes and input will be useful in ironing out flaws and improving things.


#6 Mr. Trev
'I'm not sure how I missed the subgenre tag tool, but thanks again.

This possibly could work great for me. I haven't setup a subgenre tag yet, but I could use a script to copy Picard's genre tag to the subgenre tag instead. IIRC, Picard was using more specific tags for genre than I was using, which would be perfect for my subgenres.


#7 hiccup
You didn't miss it, I only created and added it today ;-)


#8 Mr. Trev
Sweet, I'm not completely losing my mind.

Is it safe to edit your txt files? Just for the sake of personalization of course - I'm lazy so all my "Heavy Metal" tracks are tagged as just "Metal". Seems like it'd be easier to change your list rather than all my files.

Cheers


#9 hiccup
Changing the name of categories, or changing what genres go where shouldn't be a problem.
I wouldn't change the genre names, since they are as they are named in the databases of MusicBrainz and Discogs.
But you could add your own of course.

It's good that you raise the subject. A quick websearch shows there are some different opinions about what is metal and what is heavy metal.
Wikipedia says they are the same and interchangeable, but I think that is incorrect.
I will probably be making some changes in the hardware department…


#10 stevenmm
@hiccup, the installation instructions above are slightly out of date


#11 hiccup
That's fixed.


#12 Mr. Trev
Ah, makes sense. I suppose that'd be the best way to go about it (using Musicbrainz/Discogs as a reference)
On the other hand, I'm going to have to agree with Wikipedia that "Metal" and "Heavy Metal" are the same - the joys of subjective taste.

A couple quick install questions too:
If I toss both the "tag hierarchy" and "enhanced tag hierarchy" into the correct folder, which one takes priority? Should I even have both? <nevermind, I just noticed there's only the enhanced version now. maybe this is what Steven is referring to>
Second, regarding the "subgenre" tool: I/we have to manually create the MusicBee>AppData>TagHierarchyTemplates folder, correct? Or should it be auto-created, which in my case didn't happen.


#13 hiccup
Yeah, I think (at least these days) it would be best to consider Metal just as an abbreviation of Heavy Metal.
But some will disagree:
(https://ironskullet.com/2017/10/30/the-history-of-heavy-metal-part-i-the-difference-between-metal-and-heavy-metal/)
And even some sites that are valuable sources on genre matters are not that clear about it:
If you read the description on Metal here: https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/metal they use both names interchangeably.
But when you look at the hierarchy list on the right, they have put Heavy Metal under Metal.

Not a biggie though, I'll probably just rename the Heavy Metal category to Metal and the 'issue' will be solved.

I edited the 'howto' to match the current implementation.


#14 hiccup
Both the Enhanced Genre Hierarchy browser and the Subgenre Tagger were updated.

- A couple of genres were added.
- Some improvements were made on the Classical section.
- The category 'Heavy metal' was renamed to 'Metal'.
- The Enhanced genre browser is now better aligned to match subgenres created with the Subgenre tagger.
- Some other small improvements.

Download links are in the startpost


#15 Mr. Trev
The updated install instructions made things much clearer. I still was using the original tool (ie. not enhanced version). I also was on an older version of the beta so that may have had an impact too.
I have updated everything and it seems to be working as expected. Now to start adding subgenres…
Can we use multiple subgenres, eg. "Baroque; Concerto"?


#16 hiccup
Sure. You could add both the subgenres 'Oi' and 'Baroque'.
Then when using the hierarchy browser, that track will show up both under Classical and under Punk.

b.t.w. that's kind of the beauty of this hierarchy browsing. A lot of music can't be defined to being only one single genre.
When in such doubt you can tag a song (or an album) with several genres (e.g. both Soul, Disco and Funk), and it will show up when selecting any of these categories.

If you use the Subgenre tagger with the vertical tag editor, only relevant subgenres to the Genre are proposed.
You can select more than one, but when you save, do understand that any subgenre tags that were there before will be deleted.
So you can't use this to add subgenre tags to existing ones. It will clear what was already there.


#17 LR7
'Oh "Metal"...  ;D  it is important if the band plays Black/Death Metal or Death/Black Metal... also there is a difference between Progressive Doom Metal or Progressive/Doom Metal, hahaha... I write a seperate "Metal hierarchy list", based on my library and metal archives.

Heyyy, it's Thrash Metal, not trash ;-)

They suggest the subgenres:
Black | Death | Doom/Stoner/Sludge | Electronic/Industrial | Experimental/Avant-garde | Folk/Viking/Pagan
Gothic | Grindcore | Groove | Heavy | Metalcore/Deathcore | Power | Progressive | Speed | Symphonic | Thrash

And it seems fine. I use mp3tag with metal-archives plugin for tagging, so I got hundreds of sub-sub genres, which I can't handle with genre categories - but now. Awesome


#18 hiccup
Do they have a list of approved genres and subgenres, or can a user add any genre name as he pleases?


#19 LR7
Based on user submissions, heavily moderated (https://www.metal-archives.com/content/rules) and discussed (https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35533).


#20 Mr. Trev
So, everything seems to be working fine, just wondering how you have your vertical tag editor setup? Panel? Floating? I can't seem to find any way where it isn't way too intrusive.

Also, where do you personally go to get your genre/subgenre tags? I've been trying the various plugins in Picard, but I'm getting nothing other than the generic ones I already use


#21 hiccup
At the moment I have it in the left main panel, beneath the Tag hierarchy explorer.
You can set a shortcut key for the Vertical tag editor too, so you can quickly toggle it in/out of sight.

I'm using Picard's internal genre feature, the Wikidata genre plugin, and for classical music the Classical Extras plugin.
The results are usually quite bland and not that refined. But still useful for some initial categorisation and for getting some pointers and ideas.

Even though most providers these days have improving subgenre lists, it will be a human effort to apply them to releases. And considering how debated and complicated the matter is, that seems to be a very slowly progressing matter.
Most contributors will feel safe entering 'what's on the box', and getting names and facts right.
Adding something that has a risk of somebody else commenting on to be 'incorrect' is a risk many contributors may not be willing to take.
Everybody likes to be 'correct' these days, right?

Also I don't think Discogs and RYM have API's. I am not sure if other users have ways to retrieve tags automatically from them?
(I believe alec.tron is doing something with that?)

I do have custom weblinks for them and a couple of other websites, so it's easy to quickly see what genres they are suggesting for a release.


#22 hiccup
I am a bit hesitant to add such additional category levels for Metal.

Here's why:

Most Metal music of any subgenre has overlaps with other subgenres.
That often doesn't have to be a big problem, but for a hierarchy sheet like this, a subgenre can only go into one category.

Looking at the suggested categories above, where would these go?:

Industrial black metal
Industrial death metal
Industrial groove metal

Symphonic black metal
Symphonic death metal
Symphonic metal

I am guessing the first three go in 'Industrial', and the other three in 'Symphonic'?

What about these three:

Melodic black metal
Melodic death metal
Melodic groove metal

There is no 'Melodic' category, so they should probably go separately in: Black, Death and Groove?

Now if this is true, the result will be that when you select the category 'Black metal', you will not see the Industrial and the Symphonic versions, only the Melodic one.

Some other difficult ones (for me at least):
'Symphonic deathcore'
Does it go in the 'Symphonic' category or in the Metalcore/Deathcore category?

Or: 'Blackened death metal'.
I believe that's a fusion genre of Black metal and Death metal.
It can't go in both categories, and since it's a fusion of the two, it also can't go in one of them.
So in what category should it go?

In many cases metal subgenres seem to be about differences in either styles, lyrical content, tempo, atmosphere, etc.
To me that makes it difficult to define clean-cut sub-categories that will suit the general user, and will actually improve browsing instead of complicating it.

Maybe it is the 16 categories as suggested being a bit too many for this purpose?
Perhaps a smaller amount could work, I am not sure.


#23 Mr. Trev
Thanks for the feedback. Personally, I'll probably just skip the vertical tag editor for now - old habits die hard

I'm not sure if I have Picard set up wrong or something since it didn't seem to matter what plugin I used, I always got the same results.
A Discogs API would be nice. I like their simple Genre/Style


#24 LR7
So far I filtered the additions:

Atmospheric | Avant-garde | Blackened | Brutal | Depressive | Electronic | Epic | Experimental | Industrial | Medieval | Melodic | Progressive | Psychedelic | Raw | Symphonic | Technical


These descriptions went into their own tags (Groups for me).

So I am left with the big Subgenres:

Black, Death, Doom/Stoner/Sludge, Electronic/Industrial*, Experimental/Avant-garde*, Folk/Viking/Pagan, Gothic, Grindcore, Heavy, Metalcore/Deathcore, Post- (Post-Metal, Post-Black Metal, Post-Hardcore), Power, Progressive*, Speed, Symphonic*, Thrash and I forgot Nu Metal/Groove Metal, sorry

*there are Bands playing exclusively that subgenre, e.g. Queensrÿche/Progressive Metal or Therion/Symphonic Metal.

An Atmospheric Black Metal Band is now a Black Metal Band for me with the Tag "Atmospheric".

Nonetheless I have 350 Metal subgenres remaining and not sure what to do with them:
https://bin.disroot.org/?d209a382fe992814#4USYyKmQ7zYefgbMgYwN9kLb18HwcNmLbjrZfTSZXLyP


#25 alec.tron
Hai.
But there is a Discogs API :
https://www.discogs.com/developers

And, there's also ready to use plugins using the above for MusicBee, as well as Foobar.
Churs.
c.
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on July 15, 2021, 05:52:34 PM
#26 Tommy
'Thanks for this very nice addition to MusicBee.
I'm trying to figure out how to toggle show/hide the Tag Hierarchy Explorer.

Is that even possible ?


#27 hiccup
"alec.tron - But there is a Discogs API"

Thnx, I tried it (again) and immediately remembered why I quickly gave up and kind of forgot about it:
Discogs doesn't seem to have a grouping system for releases. (at least not where it concerns genres)

They allow for every variation of a release to have different genres and styles entered so you can have things like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/3qybONk.png)

Have you figured something out that works for you and avoids manually checking several releases before applying genre tags?
 

#28 hiccup
Hi Tommy, since your question is not about my 'Enhanced genre hierarchy list', but about the tag hierarchy browser in general, it would be better if if you posted your question here:

https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32556.0


#29 Tommy
After I posted I kinda figured that I did it in the wrong thread but it was already too late, sorry about that.


#30 hiccup
"LR7 - Nonetheless I have 350 Metal subgenres remaining and not sure what to do with them"

I wouldn't consider those to be 350 subgenres.
It looks like something coming from Discogs? It looks like listings of separate subgenres concatenated in a single string divided by slashes?

When retrieving those and tagging your files with it it would be best to somehow get them splitted to the original an individual entered subgenres.


#31 alec.tron
Generally, it works for me... but for very different reasons. i.e. I set genre values by hand, and use discogs as a second set of data; and, most of the music I collect exists only on single / few different releases, and has a strong/enthusiastic discogs contributor community, which helps.

To explain why yhou are seeing what you are seeing, as genres can fluctuate and are subjective on discogs - that's one of the historically odd and/or grown decisions on discogs:
- Every 'release' (a medium, physical or digital) does need a genre/style set when you commit it to discogs (*and one could debate the point / sense in applying genre values on release level [album, EP, compilation, etc] only anyway...).
- Master Releases, which is the grouping you are wondering about if it exists, does exist as a concept/functionality, but has no concept of genres, or other release metadata in itself...
- Adding a release, and being forced to select genres for a release results in very different genre/style definitions (as it would, when different people with different interpretations of genre names do this in a community...)
- That inevitably leads to multiple, user committed releases of the same release with different genre definitions regularly unfortunately.

As an updside - discogs has released TRACKS (i.e. breaking down a release into single pieces on a medium), but, that was shelved about a year ago (as the implementation they've chosen wasn't scaling well... and had inherent issues.... see ) but, they promised it will make a comeback, in re-engineered form (but, that could take years... https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/803017).
Which means, one will be able to set genres on a single track version (and all it's duplicates)...

Bottom line is, genre definitions, especially on large volume / pop(ular) albums with lots of different releases, are a mess on discogs. The smaller the sub genres / styles, and the more active experienced users are contributing to specific sub genres/styles, the better the data...

c.


#32 hiccup
Thanks for this great explanation alec.tron.
Looking at how much time it is taking organisations such as RYM and Discogs to get these things 'right' while they do have the ambition to, we will probably have to be very patient before all this genre and style stuff becomes some smooth sailing.


#33 alec.tron
Aye, just monitoring genre contributions on discogs releases is a sisyphean task... if you take on arguing about them (as what discogs is fairly good at to only allow data that is visible/printed on the release... and even that is cause enough for upsetting various tempers regularly), it becomes absolutely impossible (and why moderators do shy away from getting into arguments about) when genres are submitted with a release...

That's why I had high hopes for Tracks... but, even if that made a comeback (with genre values for single tracks, as that wasn't done on the first iteration either, but was planned to come) soon ish, it'll take years for the community to have populated these as well on a larger scale...

I have a hunch (and a secret hope) that there'll be ML driven approaches popping up in the next years, either through the large vendors, or through academia or startups/individuals... but, who knows what genre definitions/map/model/taxonomy they might train it on...

c.


#34 hiccup
Updated
Metal now has sub-categories:
(https://i.imgur.com/hGrGC2E.png)

- The Subgenre Tagger was updated accordingly (post #2)
- A Genre Category grouping list was added (see post #1)

Download links are in the startpost.

free bonus:
Some Crooner metal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlmRjqBt_mE) and some Cute metal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5RJVQEQaIU)

#35 hokusho
I don't understand where I'm supposed to add these .txt files. Are they part of another plug-in?

#36 scampbll
It's not a plugin, but you might need to update to the beta version (see my signature). The genre list is built in, but you can replace it or add new files in the AppData - TagHierarchyTemplates folder.  You can also edit them through the menu in the panel.

#37 hokusho
I see, now it's working fine, but the directory the TagHierarchyTemplates folder showed up was Roaming > MusicBee. That's what confused me.

#38 scampbll
Yeah, it'll be in different places depending on the type of installation you have.

#39 Londinium
Hi, a huge thanks for this great feature, I've been waiting for something like this for a long time!

For those interested by the RateYourMusic genres hierarchy, I've created a file (https://gist.github.com/Londinium/8f22957aa185c893c38b99a06eeaefd4) with all the 1705 genres RYM currently has.  Their genres hierarchy might not be perfect (I think they are currently moving from a genres only system to a genres+descriptors system so it's a work in progress I guess) but it goes quite in the details, especially for the "Regional Music" top-level which has something around 7 nested levels.

Enjoy!


#40 hiccup
Thanks for sharing Londinium!

I have a question and a suggestion:

Q.
Where did you find these 1705 genres and it's hierarchy?
I am aware of this source, but it's slightly dated, and it has no hierarchies?:
https://pastebin.com/tr9DggBb

S.
This thread was intended for my 'Enhanced genre hierarchy' list/file.
It's great that other members such as you contribute here, so that's no problem at all.

But to maybe to give your creation some better attention, perhaps create a new separate thread called something like 'RYM genre hierarchy'?

Or don't, it's not that I have strong feelings on this.
Honestly, if you leave it like this it is great too.


#41 scampbll
There's a thread here for collecting all the tag hierarchy files: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32978.0


#42 hiccup
Ah yes.
But perhaps a hierarchy for that topic is needed too?
If the number of contributions increase over time, they will be difficult to find in a single thread.


#43 Londinium
You can easily inspect API calls in your browser developer tools 😉

For your suggestion :

"quote author=psychoadept There's a thread here for collecting all the tag hierarchy files: https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32978.0"

Thanks! I wasn't aware of this specific thread, I've found this one while looking in the changelog (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32142.msg178730#msg178730).  I've reposted here (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=32978.msg183382#msg183382).


#44 hiccup
"Londinium - You can easily inspect API calls in your browser developer tools"

Not if your talents and capabilities on that are not in your toolbox. ;-)


#45 hiccup
Updated

- added new genres, including the ones that were recently added to the databases of MusicBrainz and RateYourMusic.
- the 'genre grouping' list (for Preferences > Tags (2) > group genres) was updated accordingly.
- fixed an error where for some cases the 'Subgenre tagger' would suggest subgenres belonging to a different main genre.
- some small tweaks and refinements
 
I managed to combine the (previously separate)  'Enhanced genre hierarchy' and 'Subgenre tagger' files into one file.
So that eliminates the need to switch between the two for either browsing or tagging purposes.
The new file is named 'Enhanced genre hierarchy and subgenre tagger' and can be found using the download link in the startpost.

It will look like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/GPoaTJP.png)

The 'Genre browser' node is the one to use.
The 'subgenre helper' node only has a functional purpose and should not be used for browsing.

Note that the 'subgenre' feature only serves a purpose for those users that are using a custom 'Subgenre' tag.
Its intended use is explained in post #2.

Testers are welcome!
I did test it myself for a while, but it's very easy to make a mistake in lists like these and perhaps overlook something.

#46 hiccup
For those interested in testing and providing some feedback:
I am especially interested if there are genres missing from the hierarchy file that should be added.

One way of checking if your library contains unrecognised genres is this:

(https://i.imgur.com/r9RYnc6.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/FrtXznN.png)

If you see entries under 'No tag hierarchy for' that you believe are credible genres you could post a screenshot of that part of the panel, or just list the genres.
With credible I mean that they have been sourced from credible sources such as Discogs, MusicBrainz, et al., or are mentioned on at least 2 'serious' music-related websites.
I am not interested in entries such as 'American pop', 'Beautiful music', 'Pop/Funk/Hip-hop', 'Atmospheric blackened melodic death doom trash metal', etc.

#47 hiccup
Updated
- added some more genres and fixed some minor flaws
- made improvements on the Classical department, especially regarding 'period'.
  (details on that are at the end of the start post)

#48 hiccup
Updated
I was never very satisfied with how Latin, Mexican and South American music turned out in this hierarchy.
After looking at it with some fresh eyes (and ears), I have made some big changes to the related genres and their positions in the sheet.
Quite a few genres were added (most Brazilian and Cuban), and a new category named 'Latin American and Caribbean' was created under 'World'.

An impression:
(https://i.imgur.com/8jKO8Td.png)

The idea is to have the more traditional Latin music under 'Latin', and everything else with strong Latin influences or roots from the regions: Central America, Caribbean, South America under 'Latin American and Caribbean'

As always, the sheet is subjective and is constructed to my personal preferences.
I hope this is the last update for a while…

#49 hiccup
A remark:
If you use the enhanced genre grouping file to replace the default genre grouping under Tags (2) > group genres, be sure to update to at least MB 3.4.7770 patch version.
Due to a limitation in earlier MB 3.4 versions, genres starting with the letters U–Z would not get grouped.

#50 hiccup
updated
lots of changes

#51 hiccup
Updated
- A lot of genres were added, amongst which all genres from RateYourMusic/Sonemic.
- Improvements on groupings. Many were added, and a few that weren't very useful were removed.
- Some improvements on alphabetical ordering.
- Many other small improvements.

download link in the startpost

#52 hiccup
Updated with a couple more improvements

I'm pretty confident this version should last for quite a while.
(unless mistakes get reported)

To fans of Metal, Darkwave, Grindcore, Industrial, Metalcore:
One thing to mention about the current version vs. older versions is that the grouping and ordering of these genres has been revamped.
The structure for these genres now looks like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/DhyOtDN.png)

If you strongly disagree with these choices let me now.
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on October 01, 2021, 07:13:44 PM
Updated with all recently added genres at RateYourMusic and MusicBrainz.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on December 25, 2021, 10:06:44 AM
Updated

- added new genres from RateYourMusic and MusicBrainz
- re-organised the blues a bit
- some improvements on subgenre suggestions
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on December 31, 2021, 01:09:04 PM
Updated
(could be the last one for this year…)

- Added a few more genres.

- refined the way how genre names ending with 'music' are processed and renamed.
  For example:
       For 'Pop music', 'Rock music', 'Classical music', I prefer just 'Pop', 'Rock', 'Classical'.
       But I would like to keep 'Furniture music' and 'Incidental music' as they are, since they look (even) weirder without 'music'.

        For 'Psychedelic folk music', I prefer 'Psychedelic folk'
        But for 'Chinese classical music' and 'Chinese folk music', I prefer to leave them like that.

   These are just a few examples, but the change affects a lot of genre names that end with 'music'.
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on January 22, 2022, 04:20:36 PM
updated

- added more genres and aka's
- added some classical music 'worktypes' that can get retrieved when using Picards' CE plugin.

- addressed something that has been bugging me for a while:

Music of genres such as 'Modern classical' and 'Neo-classical' was showing up under the category 'Classical', which I personally didn't like much.
And a genre that is very similar to these two, 'Neoclassical new age' was showing under a different category: 'New age'.

To bring them together and separate them from the classic 'Classical', a new category named 'Neoclassical · New age' has been created.
These are the genres that will get grouped under it:

(https://i.imgur.com/wAofZlK.png)


Music of genres related to games, movies, television, etc. was scattered around several categories such as Electronic, Other, Style/Format, Stage & Screen.

To bring them together, a new category named 'Film · Game · TV' has been created.
These are the genres that will get grouped under it:

(https://i.imgur.com/Y3H7W79.png)


This is a complete overview of all current genre categories:

(https://i.imgur.com/3FHxmsy.png)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on January 30, 2022, 09:06:00 AM
- added some genres from RYM
- added some aka's from MusicBrainz

- 'Europe' is now divided into N/S/E/W regions
- 'Russian' and 'Siberian · Mongolian' were added. (replacing 'Asian (north)')

'World' now looks like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/epsRsv0.png)
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: Mr. Trev on January 31, 2022, 02:02:46 AM
In the 1st post you mentioned Classical and period finishing with the point:
"You will also need to use a script that writes and adds these period names to the regular 'genre' tag.
How to do that is beyond the scope of this thread."

Is the way to do this covered in your other Classical tagging thread? (i did a quick skim but didn't see it)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on January 31, 2022, 05:19:25 PM
I myself am doing that with use of the script I described in this:  'How to retrieve good quality genre tags using Picard'  (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=35975.msg196795#msg196795) topic.

If you also use that script (script #1), all you have to do is add this line:

Code
$setmulti(genre,%genre%; %period%)
to the bottom.
(it will add the 'period' name to the other genres)

Note that you will need to use Picard's Classical Extras plugin for this to work.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: Mr. Trev on January 31, 2022, 06:14:24 PM
Gotcha, now added.

I decided for the sake of minimalising confusion I'd create a separate portable Picard install just for classical. I don't think I'm invested enough in Classical for a separate MB install though
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on April 01, 2022, 06:49:55 PM
updated
- added some 40 genres

Amongst which:
Hutsul folk music (Ukraine)
Sovietwave (Russia)
Scots song (Europe)
Swamp pop (USA)

If only Putin had been a music lover instead of an evil and destructive warmonger…
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on April 08, 2022, 04:27:03 PM
Updated

- added some (mostly a.k.a.) genres from Discogs.

(I really wish Discogs and MusicBrainz would butt their heads together and consult RYM about genre tags. That would really save me wasting time on adding a.k.a.'s)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: temptemp2022 on April 21, 2022, 12:35:10 AM
Registered just for this. Can you share an updated link?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on April 21, 2022, 06:56:35 AM
Thanks for reporting,

There must be something going on at Bitly that is causing these false security warnings.
I'm not sure creating new links would solve this, or for how long.

The best thing to do for now is if you (and other forum members that care and have a moment to spare) could fill in the form that the warning page has a link to, to inform Bitly that the security blocking is a false one.
I am guessing the more users report it, the sooner it will be solved.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: Mr. Trev on April 21, 2022, 03:59:12 PM
I reported it. Hopefully it'll get resolved soon.

A semi-off topic question… what's the deal with bitly anyhow? I have no idea what the pros (or cons) of using these link shortening services are.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: alec.tron on April 29, 2022, 09:28:46 AM
I wanted to grab the latest version as well, but bitly stops me too.
Also - a pure text version upload would be grand [instead of a file upload] - if you want @hiccup, I can add it to a git repo () or stuff like this
https://justpaste.it/
seems to be usable with little friction.

Churs.
c.

ps. just saw the other thread that you use bitly for your binary files as well... then the above doesn't fly, so ignore.. :D
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on April 29, 2022, 04:57:13 PM
ps. just saw the other thread that you use bitly for your binary files as well... then the above doesn't fly, so ignore.. :D
Yep, that's the case indeed.
If someone wants to download one of my contributions that is currently falsely being blocked by Bitly, the best thing to do to get the issue solved will be by him/her filling in the 'false blocking' report that the blocking page refers to.

I have reported it myself twice now. But no response from Bitly as yet. So more reports from others might help or be needed.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: austral on April 29, 2022, 06:59:57 PM
hi!
got the Bitly block and filled the report as "false blocking".
in the meantime, is there another way we can get the file?
thanks for reading
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: chthonic on May 21, 2022, 09:54:06 AM
U can use checkshorturl to decode the bitly link, make sure you copy the link from this post and not the one where it says its blocked.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on July 10, 2022, 03:47:20 PM
Updated.

Added some genres and made some small changes.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on July 11, 2022, 05:31:57 PM
A notification:
I am considering to remove all 'subgenre' functionality from my 'enhanced genre hierarchy list'.

The reason is that by now I believe that while the idea makes sense, in reality it is difficult to put to good use.

Firstly, there is no genre provider that offers structured genre/subgenres that can be retrieved and automatically tagged. So it will take a lot of manual effort to set things up and maintain them.
Secondly, while some genres can be clearly considered to be a subgenre of another, many others are not a subgenre of one genre, but evolved from two different genres. Sometimes genres that are not even in the same 'category'.
It's pretty much impossible to define/restrict these as being a subgenre of one genre.

Also, because of the way the hierarchy browser works (my THL at least), having subgenres doesn't really add any functionality to it.
Using the hierarchy browser will find them irrespective if the genre resides in the 'genre', or in the 'subgenre' tag.
So these days I myself put all genres and 'subgenres' in the genre tag.

If I remove the concept of subgenres from my list, it does not mean that any genre names get removed, nor that there will be any change in the hierarchy. (levels)
It would only mean that it won't read the 'subgenre' tag any more, nor will it provide suggestions to write it.

If anyone using my Enhanced Genre Hierarchy list does use and appreciate the subgenre feature, let me know. Then I will leave things as they are.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on July 15, 2022, 08:12:05 PM
updated

I have split-up EDM and Electronic, and created 'Dance' as a new category.
'Dance' contains all EDM and Disco related genres.

So it's now this:

(https://i.imgur.com/TVWcAZC.png)

instead of this:

(https://i.imgur.com/ThJEWeo.png)

And as reminder:

This is probably going to be the last version that reads (and suggests) subgenres.
(unless somebody speaks out that he is making good use of the feature)
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 14, 2022, 09:24:26 AM
updated

-  added new genres from RYM
-  regrettably had to waste time and space with adding many aka's that were added at MusicBrainz
-  removed the 'subgenre' feature (as announced and explained earlier)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 28, 2022, 09:31:42 AM
updated

- Ambient is now a main category
- added some genres from RYM
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on November 23, 2022, 08:54:04 PM
updated

- added a couple of genres
- Dance pop was changed to: Dance-pop
- Rock and roll was changed to: Rock & roll
- Rhythm and blues was changed to: Rhythm & blues
- R&B and Rhythm & blues are now two separate genre categories

In your library you may want to rename existing genre tags 'Dance pop' to 'Dance-pop', and 'Rhythm and blues' to 'Rhythm & blues', since the former spellings won't be recognised by the genre hierarchy browser any more.
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on December 15, 2022, 07:42:30 PM
For testing my 'Enhanced Genre Hierarchy' table I have been using some testing files that contain all genres that are in my genre hierarchy file.
It's a set of 28 flac files that together contain all 2475 2553 2705 genres that it currently contains.
(the tracks don't contain music, only genre tags)

I thought they might be interesting and/or useful to other users, so I make them available for download.
If you load the tracks into your library, you will be able to see exactly how the genre hierarchy is constructed, and what genre goes where.

download  test files 'all genres' (https://rebrand.ly/MB_genre_hierarchy_test_files)

Don't get dizzy:

(https://i.imgur.com/VRYS9Do.gif)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on January 06, 2023, 06:05:25 PM
updated

- added a few genres
- Psytrance is now a category containing subgenres:

(https://i.imgur.com/8yEZhj0.png)
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on January 28, 2023, 03:04:49 PM
updated

- added a few genres
- Chant and Emo are now categories
  (funny how these two happen to reflect diametrical mindstates)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on March 18, 2023, 06:20:39 PM
The genre hierarchy list and the 'all genres' test files (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=35266.msg207242#msg207242) were updated.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on March 26, 2023, 08:36:39 PM
Updated, many small changes and improvements.

For aficionados of classical music it may be good to know that some inconsistencies in genre/period names were adjusted.

before:
Early romantic
Expressionism
Impressionist
Late romantic
Modernist
Neoclassicism
Post-minimalist
Postmodernist
Romantic

now:
Early romanticism
Expressionism
Impressionism
Late romanticism
Modernism
Neoclassicism
Post-minimalism
Postmodernism
Romanticism

For those using Picard and my Picard genre scripts and whitelist, those will now also (re)name these genres accordingly.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: gregoirecmoi on April 16, 2023, 08:01:13 AM
thank you, exactly what i was looking for  8)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on May 20, 2023, 07:36:16 AM
updated, added some genres
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hokkaidojef on June 23, 2023, 07:02:08 PM
Hi Hiccup.

No matter how I try from within the forum or the misc. downloads section,
I can't download your file .
 I get :
This site can’t be reached
rebrand.ly’s DNS address could not be found. Diagnosing the problem.
DNS_PROBE_POSSIBLE

Jeff :)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on June 23, 2023, 07:09:26 PM
No matter how I try from within the forum or the misc. downloads section,
I can't download your file .
 I get :
This site can’t be reached
rebrand.ly’s DNS address could not be found. Diagnosing the problem.
DNS_PROBE_POSSIBLE
Strange, the download link is working fine for me.
Maybe it is your internet provider/DNS server/security software/a temporary glitch?

Perhaps other members could give it a try and report back?:
download Enhanced genre hierarchy list (https://rebrand.ly/MB_Enhanced_genre_hierarchy)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: phred on June 23, 2023, 07:58:32 PM
Perhaps other members could give it a try and report back?:
No issues downloading the first file at the Dropbox link.
Perhaps there's a geo-restriction at play.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: Mr. Trev on June 23, 2023, 11:49:40 PM
No matter how I try from within the forum or the misc. downloads section,
I can't download your file .
 I get :
This site can’t be reached
rebrand.ly’s DNS address could not be found. Diagnosing the problem.
DNS_PROBE_POSSIBLE
Strange, the download link is working fine for me.
Maybe it is your internet provider/DNS server/security software/a temporary glitch?

Perhaps other members could give it a try and report back?:
download Enhanced genre hierarchy list (https://rebrand.ly/MB_Enhanced_genre_hierarchy)

Just tried the link and it's working fine for me too
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hokkaidojef on June 24, 2023, 05:32:35 AM
Thanks everyone!
Got it thru dropbox via Hiccup.
My DNS point towards my VPN and I have varies securities in place as far as software and browser,
so most like those had something to do with it.
Thanks again for the help and thoughts on the issue everyone!

Jeff :)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 06:00:23 PM
Hi @hiccup and congraturations again for your awesome and long work.

I am here as written on another thread (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=39855.0) to give my 2-cents feedback on genres hierarchy and to propose a tool to auto-generate the grouping/tag list files given the tag hierarchy file, if you think it could be useful to you I could contribute with that.

Now, in order not to write a long list of unverified genre/edits, I would gradually and slowly propose some minor edits on this thread, if it sounds good to you. I love speaking of genres and I like the topic, but I don't want to annoy you or oher users neither lose time on pointless chaotic and abstract arguments. A first example would be:

- Add Style: Percussive
Like "Experimental" or "Instrumental" this is not a proper genre, but a Style/Form made of mainly percussive sounds; it's somewhat related/opposite of "Acoustic". A famous example would be Iannis Xenakis, or the scherzo without instruments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWmyFsHmEbE). Other examples here (https://thevinylfactory.com/features/10-incredible-percussion-albums-from-around-the-world/) and here (https://bandcamp.com/tag/percussive)

would it be ok to go on with this form of feedback or does it sound inappropriate?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 29, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
- Add Style: Percussive
Like "Instrumental" or "Acoustic" this is not a proper genre, but a Style/Form made of mainly percussive sounds. A famous example would be Iannis Xenakis, or the scherzo without instruments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWmyFsHmEbE). Other examples here (https://thevinylfactory.com/features/10-incredible-percussion-albums-from-around-the-world/) and here (https://bandcamp.com/tag/percussive)
I think that's a good one, it's added.

The only problem is when looking at MusicBrainz for the percussive (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/percussive/release) tag, it's a lot of releases that could perhaps be considered 'rhythmic', but surely not containing predominantly percussion instruments.
So that tag will (currently) not work great when using MusicBrainz as a source for it.
But that's another problem.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 08:32:07 PM
Ok, You won't like the next one but I'm personally interested on this, so let me insist and introduce the new Electronic sub-genre synthwave  (https://musicbrainz.org/genre/19565d07-8460-4773-8d54-149208a61bb4)like this:

 Electronic
      Synthwave · Vaporwave
            Synthwave::genre
            Cyberpunk::genre
            Darksynth::genre
            Outrun::genre
            Minimal synth::genre
            Spacesynth::genre
            Vaporwave::genre
 
Let me elaborate a bit, english in not my native language but I'll do my best. All these genres are already included, I'm only moving them. The synthwave genre is pretty well defined both temporally and "sensorially": Mainly made of synths, often by a single artist, with strong 80S sounding and/or themes taken from the pop culture of those years.
It originates from French electro::genre and Italo-disco::genre already included in the list, and to me it deserves a "sub-genre" promotion. Infact, they all share a similar temporal context (2010s) and synth-based origin; Even if it may sound a naive consideration, also the album covers of these sub-genres are significantly representative of it: skull and gloomy for darksynth, spacey and alien-like for spacewave, cars and beaches for outrun and so on.
On music streaming platforms these same defined genres are often grouped under the broader synthwave, suggesting a similar hierarchy. See other examples on RYM (https://rateyourmusic.com/list/TheScientist/rym-ultimate-box-set-synthwave-styles/) or Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/outrun/comments/9kctrf/synthwave_essential_album_chart_1_ver_40_update/).
I understand that these references may not sound academic but watching at other 3rd level sub-categories, like Psychedelia or Industrial · Noise for example, I still feel Synthvave deserves the same, as depicted on musicmap.info, too (where the sub-genre is Downtempo though: if you prefer we could name the 2nd level category like that instead of the proposed one
(https://i.imgur.com/BLhoTkb.png)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 08:46:25 PM
Next one I'm proposing to add "Italian Pop::genre" under "European (west)". It's similar, cousin let's say, with existing "French pop::genre". Examples: Laura Pausini, Gigi D'agostino, Giorgio Moroder, Mina, Lucio Dalla, Eiffel 65, Adriano Celentano, Toto Cotugno (RIP  :'( )

Musicbrainz (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/italian%20pop)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 08:53:15 PM
I propose to move "Aggrotech::genre" from techno to Electronic. It's a synonym/alias of already-defined electro-industrial (http://url=https://musicbrainz.org/search?query=aggrotech&type=tag&method=indexed). Personally I'd move both under Industrial · Noise but I guess this won't be accepted (:
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 09:01:44 PM
Next one I'm proposing to add "Etherpop::genre" under Pop. Example artists on Lastfm (https://stats.fm/genre/etherpop), chosic (https://www.chosic.com/genre-chart/etherpop/). It's basically an alias of "Dream pop::genre"
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 09:08:21 PM
I propose to add "Death Rock::genre" (an alias of "Deathrock::genre"), because also "Death Metal" and "Death Industrial" are written like that. Similarly, I propose to add "Post Punk::genre", because we already have "Post-Punk" and both "Post Rock" and "Post-Rock"
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 09:15:32 PM
I'm proposing to add "EBSM::genre" under EDM. It's similar to EBM (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/ebsm/release), but distinct since there are 15 years aside. It's relatively recent, I'm not sure you're willing to accept this one
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 10:03:12 PM
Ah, another lateral suggestion, I have to write in order not to forget it. "Atmospheric" is present 4 times in the list."Atmospheric drum and bass", "Atmospheric sludge metal", and so on.

Well, I feel like "Atmospheric" should be a style/form instead of 4 sub-genres, otherwise also "Atmospheric Post Rock (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/atmospheric%20post%20rock)", "Atmospheric Space (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/atmospheric%20space)" (ex. Steve Roach - structures from silence) and "Ambient Industrial (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/ambient%20industrial)" (ex. Nine Inch Nails - Ghosts) would be legit.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 29, 2023, 10:12:04 PM
I suggest to add "Compositional Ambient (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/compositional%20ambient)" Under "Ambient" sub-genre
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 29, 2023, 11:01:45 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions shineangelic!
It's probably going to take me a couple of days (maybe the weekend) to make up my mind about some of them.

But there is one category of suggestions I can tell you already that has little chance to make it to my list, and that are the aka's (aliases).
I really don't like having them at all, but here's why I do have them:

Let's take Synthpop for example.
RYM knows it as Synthpop, which I agree with as the preferred spelling.
But Discogs and MusicBrainz know it as Synth-pop

In my library I prefer to use and see only Synthpop.
But since genres can get retrieved from MusicBrainz and Discogs, the aka Synth-pop needs to be in my list too.
It's a necessity. It's not because I want the list to be some ultimate compendium of all genre names and naming variations that are out there.

And as soon as e.g. MusicBrainz would change the name to Synthpop at some time, I will immediately remove the Synth-pop aka.

The same for Rock & Roll vs. Rock and Roll, Prog rock vs. Progressive rock, etc. etc.
There are still more than 400 of such 'necessary' aka's in my list, and I much prefer to see that number slink, not grow.
I'll only add them if they are necessary for getting them retrieved from one of these three providers.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 09:02:47 AM
But since genres can get retrieved from MusicBrainz and Discogs, the aka Synth-pop needs to be in my list too.
It's a necessity. It's not because I want the list to be some ultimate compendium of all genre names and naming variations that are out there.

Yes, of course. That's my same situation, I didn't invent those aliases by myself, they come from supervised auto-tagging from different softwares/providers in the years. I am just pointing out that if both "Post Rock" and "Post-Rock" exist because of this necessity (and that's the same reason why I started the other "synonym" thread (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=39855.0)), then this criteria would require both "Post Punk" and "Post-Punk" to exist as well, because I'm applying the exact same ratio and case.

As a method, or you introduce the "synonym" concept at a lower level, so that musicbee automatically manages and merges all these aliases, or you accept the compromise of keeping them in the hierarchy, because some subtle/syntax differences will always exist across different APIs providers, IMO. In the latter case, even tho I understand that you prefer this aliases number to shrink, not to grow, I invite you to reconsider having let's say 420 "necessary" aliases instead of 'just' 400. I personally have just a dozen of them because I like to keep genre list clean, but I agree with you this is a necessity, as aka's keep popping out again and again
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 11:49:01 AM
I invite you to reconsider having let's say 420 "necessary" aliases instead of 'just' 400

Considered and rejected ;-)

To explain why:

It's mainly because of MusicBrainz. (currently my sole source of automated genre tagging)
MusicBrainz e.g. has Darksynth as a genre tag, but also the aliases Dark synth and Dark-synth. (as regular tags, a.k.a. folksonomy tags)

The genre tag Darksynth can usually be trusted to be matched to releases correctly, since the community will be applying them and checking up and correcting them when needed.

The regular tags Dark synth and Dark-synth will not be monitored or checked by the community for correct matching to releases.
So if somebody ever wrongly tags a release with such an alias, nobody will correct it and it will probably stay that way forever.
So if these would be in my list, a lot of not-Darksynth music will wrongly get tagged with Dark synth or Dark-synth.

I found early on that having such aliases in my list is a big problem, and it renders the hierarchy browser very unreliable. Almost useless even.


P.S. 1
If it's useful, tonight I can PM you an overview of all genres in my list that currently have aliases.
It may need some revisions or a fresh eye.

P.S. 2
Have you considered using the AT&RT plugin (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=3833.msg20793#msg20793) to change all unwanted aliases in your library to their preferred naming?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 06:27:36 PM
Thanks again for all your input shineangelic.
It's nice to have an active soundboard on this matter.

Quote
I'm proposing to add "Italian Pop::genre" under "European (west)"
done


Quote
I propose to move "Aggrotech::genre" from techno to Electronic
done


Quote
I feel like "Atmospheric" should be a style/form instead of 4 sub-genres
added as a style/form
I don't understand what you mean by 'instead of'. The 4 in my sheet are valid genres, so they should stay where they are?


Quote
also "Atmospheric Post Rock", "Atmospheric Space" (ex. Steve Roach - structures from silence) and "Ambient Industrial" (ex. Nine Inch Nails - Ghosts) would be legit.
https://musicbrainz.org/tag/atmospheric%20post%20rock
https://musicbrainz.org/tag/atmospheric%20space
https://musicbrainz.org/tag/ambient%20industrial
Just to be clear, those links lead to MusicBrainz tags, not to MusicBrainz genres.
And as I described earlier, anyone can create tags there without any scrutiny or discussion.
They probably have tens of thousands of such tags. Most are rubbish.
So I usually don't give those tags much value or consideration.

About the genres themselves: they seem to be more or less aliases or slight variations on existing genres such as Space ambient, Dark ambient, etc.
So, I think there is too much uncertainty for me to add them at the moment.


Quote
I'm proposing to add "EBSM::genre" under EDM. It's similar to EBM, but distinct since there are 15 years aside.
It's hard to find much about that one. There has not even been a discussion on it at RYM.
Looks like a recent and still evolving genre that doesn't have gained much traction or even consensus yet.
I think it's best to wait until (if) it matures into a more widely accepted and better defined genre.


Quote
Next one I'm proposing to add "Etherpop::genre" under Pop
Looks like it was invented by a commercial company, trying to optimise users playing music on their platform.
I think it originates from the 'Every Noise at Once' website, which if I am not mistaken was created by a guy who is on Spotify's payroll.
Neither RYM, MusicBrainz or Discogs knows it.

Fun fact, I just checked:
Every Noise At Once has 6.276 genres.
5.344 of them unknown by either RYM, MusicBrainz or Discogs.
These guys really love making stuff up.

And as you said, Etherpop probably adds next to nothing to the already existing Dream pop.


Quote
I propose to add "Death Rock::genre" (an alias of "Deathrock::genre"), because also "Death Metal" and "Death Industrial" are written like that. Similarly, I propose to add "Post Punk::genre", because we already have "Post-Punk" and both "Post Rock" and "Post-Rock"
I don't really want to add those. They are not 'necessary' aliases as I described earlier.


Quote
Ok, You won't like the next one but I'm personally interested on this, so let me insist and introduce the new Electronic sub-genre synthwave like this:

 Electronic
      Synthwave · Vaporwave
            Synthwave::genre
            Cyberpunk::genre
            Darksynth::genre
            Outrun::genre
            Minimal synth::genre
            Spacesynth::genre
            Vaporwave::genre
This one will take me more time to form an opinion on.


P.S.
All related genre hierarchy files have been updated.
Including the audio test files.

Edit
And by the way, a genre list like mine is obviously a construct of personal and biassed choices.
If you find you can't agree with some that are important to you, feel free to use my list as a basis to create your own genre hierarchy list, and publish it if you feel like it.
(mentioning the source of your work would then be nice of course)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 07:15:14 PM
Thanks again for all your input shineangelic.
It's nice to have an active soundboard on this matter.

You're welcome, I'm passionate about this topic


Quote
I don't understand what you mean by 'instead of'. The 4 in my sheet are valid genres, so they should stay where they are?

Just to be clear, those links lead to MusicBrainz tags, not to MusicBrainz genres.
And as I described earlier, anyone can create tags there without any scrutiny or discussion.
So I usually don't give such tags much value or consideration.
About the genres themselves: they seem to be more or less aliases or slight variations on existing genres such as Space ambient, Dark ambient, etc.
So, I think there is too much uncertainty for me to add them at the moment.



It was a "by contradiction" reasoning of me: I would not add any of "Atmospheric Post Rock" nor "Atmopsheric Space", because "Atmospheric" should be a style/form, like you confirmed.
So I was guessing: should "Atmospheric drum and bass::genre" be "downgraded" and simply become "Drum and bass::genre", since as we said "Atmospheric" is an additional style pretty much like instrumental or experimental?
If yes, then "Sludge metal" sub-category would be gone and you'd have 4 genres less. I'm genuinely asking: is Sludge metal so big/important to deserve a 3rd level sub-category on its own ?







Quote
It's hard to find much about that one. There has not even been a discussion on it at RYM.
Looks like a recent and still evolving genre that doesn't have gained much traction or even consensus yet.
I think it's best to wait until (if) it matures into a more widely accepted and better defined genre.

I agree, that's fine


Quote
Looks like it was invented by a commercial company, trying to optimise users playing music on their platform.
I think it originates from the 'Every Noise at Once' website, which if I am not mistaken was created by a guy who is on Spotify's payroll.
Neither RYM, MusicBrainz or Discogs knows it.

Fun fact, I just checked:
Every Noise At Once has 6.276 genres.
5.344 of them unknown by either RYM, MusicBrainz or Discogs.
These guys really love making stuff up.

And as you said, Etherpop probably adds next to nothing to the already existing Dream pop.

Very interesting thanks, I will remove it from my lib renaming it dream pop as I should have already done.


Quote
I propose to add "Death Rock::genre" (an alias of "Deathrock::genre"), because also "Death Metal" and "Death Industrial" are written like that. Similarly, I propose to add "Post Punk::genre", because we already have "Post-Punk" and both "Post Rock" and "Post-Rock"
I don't really want to add those. They are not 'necessary' aliases as I described earlier.

Ok, then my opinion changes to: "Post-Rock" should be removed, because we have no "Death-Rock" nor "Post-Punk"


Quote
Ok, You won't like the next one but I'm personally interested on this, so let me insist and introduce the new Electronic sub-genre synthwave like this:

 Electronic
      Synthwave · Vaporwave
            Synthwave::genre
            Cyberpunk::genre
            Darksynth::genre
            Outrun::genre
            Minimal synth::genre
            Spacesynth::genre
            Vaporwave::genre
This one will take me more time to form an opinion on.

That's fine

 
Quote
Edit
And by the way, a genre list like mine is obviously a construct of personal and biassed choices.
If you find you can't agree with some that are important to you, feel free to use my list as a basis to create your own genre hierarchy list, and publish it if you feel like it.
(mentioning the source of your work would then be nice of course)

Thank you for the "fork" proposal, that's the reason why I asked you about github at first. Probably I'll do like this, but first I want to contribute with some reviews and proposals. After they will be accepted/rejected, I would create my personal list and use it daily on the best player I've ever used
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 07:47:56 PM
…should "Atmospheric drum and bass::genre" be "downgraded" and simply become "Drum and bass::genre"
No, because both RYM and MusicBrainz have it as a genre.

Quote
then my opinion changes to: "Post-Rock" should be removed
No, same reason. Both RYM and MusicBrainz have it as a genre.


edit:
Maybe it's good to re-state what my genre list is about.
     - It's about getting optimal results for MusicBee when retrieving genres. 
     - It's not about being 'right' about genre taxonomy. 
     - It's not about having it contain all genres and variations known to men but unavailable for tagging genres using MusicBee. 


Quote
…and use it daily on the best player I've ever used
Spread the word ;-)

B.t.w. I'm curious about what you are doing at github.
Is it something that MusicBee users will be able to use and benefit from?
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote
Spread the word ;-)

The world is a cruel place, it moved to spotify

Quote
B.t.w. I'm curious about what you are doing at github.
Is it something that MusicBee users will be able to use and benefit from?

Somehow. Github (Git, actually) is a code repository tool, but don't think about code and programs only. Instead of using dropbox, you would upload your hierarchy files (they're text file in the end) to a  github project of yours and other users (of github) would be able to contribute in the form of pull requests. It's the same thing we're doing here manually: I propose, you accept or reject. But with git, all pull request would be traced and kept track of. For example, could you see how your list looked like exactly 2 years ago? With git, this and other questions would have an immediate response, versioning comes natural. I could also easily "fork" your project to create my own version, but it would be structurally clear that my project is derived on yours. I would still be able to send pull requests from my new project to your original one and you would still accept or reject them with a single click after a preview of the changes
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 08:26:52 PM
The world is a cruel place, it moved to spotify
A lot of sheep did. Not all.

Quote
Somehow. Github (Git, actually) is a code repository tool, but don't think about code and programs only.
Thanks for explaining.
Being (becoming) old-school, I like the somewhat more personal and human-like interactions on a forum like this.

But I guess my question was not clear.
What are you constructing on github, and is it something that will be useful and available for MusicBee users at some point?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 08:37:14 PM
Quote
But I guess my question was not clear.
What are you constructing on github, and is it something that will be useful and available for MusicBee users at some point?

Ah, I see. Well, on my github I have the code (sadly not all for copyright reasons) I wrote in the last years. The part that may already be "useful" for MusicBee users is explained here (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=39854.0) but it didn't receive much attention (I'm perfectly used to this). Well, that little tool/script is public on github

Happily enough (not for Steven), my little toy made a bug emerge.  I see you already aknowledged that.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 08:44:17 PM
The part that may already be "useful" for MusicBee users is explained here (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=39854.0) but it didn't receive much attention (I'm perfectly used to this).
I saw that post.
But it is on the developers board. Which is not a board that the average MusicBee user will pay much attention to.
Also it was completely unclear to me how this could be used for MusicBee. (that could be me though)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 08:56:50 PM
I propose to add "Modular Synth::genre (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/modular%20synth)" To Electronics. I'm sorry I still didn't realize how to recognize between real genre tag and garbage tag you talked of, so I'm not sure of the applicability of this one
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 09:00:48 PM
Also it was completely unclear to me how this could be used for MusicBee. (that could be me though)

If I was less lazy, I'd have written a proper MB plugin, but 40 lines of python are easier to mantain and launch even after years, so I decided for this shorter for of sunday morning project.I had to post it under dev, because it still takes a dev to install/configure/launch it. It's the price of semplicity in this case.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 09:03:39 PM
I propose to add "Modular Synth::genre (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/modular%20synth)" To Electronics.
Neither RYM, MusicBrainz or Discogs acknowledges this as a genre.
So you will have to build a stronger case for me to add it to my list.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 09:06:53 PM
If I was less lazy, I'd have written a proper MB plugin…
In that case you probably should not be surprised that nobody responded to that post?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 09:09:30 PM
Quote
In that case you probably should not be surprised that nobody responded to that post?

I wasn't surprised, in the fullness of time maybe someone will notice it.


From now on my suggestions will become weaker, more personal and arguable. My "unmatched" list from external APIs is getting thinner :)

I have this nasty serie of genres, that are not genres at all:

00S, 70S, 80S, 90S

I'm pretty sure I did not invent these and quite sure I obtained them using unplugged MB "Auto-Tag by album" feature in previous versions (freedb perhaps? Sorry I don't remember).

I have a very weak opinion they should be included in form/styles, what do you think about these?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 09:13:03 PM
00S, 70S, 80S, 90S
I have a very weak opinion they should be included in form/styles, what do you think about these?
No way in hell.

Those are not genres at all. And MusicBee already has dates and decennia available.
Are we drifting apart here?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 09:18:21 PM
I propose to add "Modular Synth::genre (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/modular%20synth)" To Electronics.
Neither RYM, MusicBrainz or Discogs acknowledges this as a genre.
So you will have to build a stronger case for me to add it to my list.

I'm not insisting here, but it's among "Suggested genres" in Album auto-tagger and it's the best I could think of for this artist.
(https://i.imgur.com/PeHSdN7.png)

I guess that for musicbrainz is one of the "minor" tags?
https://musicbrainz.org/tag/modular%20synth
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 09:24:25 PM
00S, 70S, 80S, 90S
I have a very weak opinion they should be included in form/styles, what do you think about these?
No way in hell.

Ah ah! I told you we're going weaker. I'm not the author of those

I propose to add
  "Gravewave (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/grave%20wave)" (or "grave-wave") under "Darkwave" subcat.
and
 "Batcave (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/batcave)" under "Darkwave" subcat.

 I love this subcat
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 09:26:50 PM
I'm not insisting here, but it's among "Suggested genres" in Album auto-tagger and it's the best I could think of for this artist.
To be honest I have no idea why or how MusicBee suggests it.
When I use MusicBrainz' Picard I get: Ambient; Dark ambient; Drone; Electronic; Experimental
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 09:33:41 PM
I propose to add
  "Gravewave (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/grave%20wave)" (or "grave-wave") under "Darkwave" subcat.
and
 "Batcave (https://musicbrainz.org/tag/batcave)" under "Darkwave" subcat.
It seems we are indeed drifting apart.
Again, those are also not recognised by either RYM, MusicBrainz or Discogs.
They are just a couple of the ten thousands of tags that exist at MusicBrainz as 'folksonomy' tags.
I am going to take a break from this. This is not productive.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 09:44:27 PM
That's fine, I won't propose any other genre tag as I feel the remaining dozen ones in my list are all 'folksonomy' or akas.

Feel free to PM me the 400 alias list you've talked about, not sure I will be able to help with that but for sure I'll have a look.

The remaining suggestion deals with level 1 tree naming. Shall I go on or are they hard-wired? :)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 10:39:59 PM
I wasn't surprised, in the fullness of time maybe someone will notice it.
In my opinion things posted on the 'developer's' board don't deserve any attention or responses from regular MusicBee users.
Users such as I may have noticed it, and think: not sure what this is all about. We'll see. Or maybe we won't.

Anyway, I am guilty of derailing this topic.
Let's get back to things that may be actually useful to this topic.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 11:14:08 PM
Yes, recalling:

Quote
Maybe it's good to re-state what my genre list is about.
     - It's about getting optimal results for MusicBee when retrieving genres.
     - It's not about being 'right' about genre taxonomy.
     - It's not about having it contain all genres and variations known to men but unavailable for tagging genres using MusicBee.

I wasn't drifting away unplugged MB, with this  (https://musicbrainz.org/release/aa192e1b-e4f9-4c2f-96cb-04c2ac136c78)album just to make an example, auto fills the genre field with "00S" taking data from musicbrainz. I acknowledge that "00S" is nothing but junksonomy as you said, but still (because of alphabetical order?) it's there in first position. Perhaps is there a way to tell MB to completely ignore that string that made you angry?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 11:18:45 PM
I acknowledge that "00S" is nothing but junksonomy as you said, but still (because of alphabetical order?) it's there in first position. Perhaps is there a way to tell MB to completely ignore that string that made you angry?
You'll only be able to see me angry in real life.
Am I right in assuming that you are now raising some issue of how MusicBee is proposing genres somehow?
If so, that is not relevant to this thread.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 30, 2023, 11:31:07 PM
Am I right in assuming that you are now raising some issue of how MusicBee is proposing genres somehow?
If so, that is not relevant to this thread.

No no, I'm just trying to get a broader picture of  the 'branches' of the hierarchy tree and in this case I was looking at "Other", but I see there's no room for that.
Moving on, the other suggestions are similar to the aggrotech one, moving of some genres across branches, shall we go on or you're not interested?

For example I'd move "Dark Cabaret" from Rock to "Darkwave" subcat, but I'm not sure the latter is intentended for that.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 30, 2023, 11:56:31 PM
shall we go on or you're not interested?
I think I am taking that remark in the wrong way at this very moment.
So I'll get back later to check and comment on the factual genre related content of your post.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on August 31, 2023, 04:40:03 PM
… so let me insist and introduce the new Electronic sub-genre synthwave like this:

 Electronic
      Synthwave · Vaporwave
            Synthwave::genre
            Cyberpunk::genre
            Darksynth::genre
            Outrun::genre
            Minimal synth::genre
            Spacesynth::genre
            Vaporwave::genre

I find quite a few things in this proposal problematic:

     - Neither Cyberpunk nor Outrun are acknowledged as music genres by the known genre providers. 
     - Vaporware is quite a unique genre, so I don't think it can go under any genre category other than Electronic. And having a category for a single genre does not make much sense. 
     - Darksynth these days seems mostly to be considered a genre on its own, not a subgenre of Synthwave. 
       So they should be side-by-side, not one above the other. 
     - Spacesynth is more related to Space disco/Synthpop/EDM. 
       And it is from the 80's, so it seems very weird to place it under the Synthwave genre that is from around 2006/2007. 
     - The same goes for Minimal synth, which is even older, dating back to the 70's. 
       It's also closer related to Synthpop and Minimal wave than to Synthwave. 

So I will not make these changes.
 
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: shineangelic on August 31, 2023, 04:49:27 PM
ok NP
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on November 04, 2023, 03:00:00 PM
I just wanted to say that I am still updating this list and the related scripts on a (roughly) weekly basis.
But I don't feel like bothering the forum by posting 'updated' every time I make a minor addition or change to it.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: schenell on January 27, 2024, 05:27:43 PM
Is it possible in some way yo subscribe to the folder or something to easy get an update when you have edit the whitelist file? :)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on January 27, 2024, 05:39:25 PM
Is it possible in some way yo subscribe to the folder or something to easy get an update when you have edit the whitelist file? :)
No, not really.

I have been reluctant to create an 'updated' post every time I make a small change or addition to these files, since I don't want the forum to be bothered with this too much.

Especially since many additions to the hierarchy sheet and the whitelist these days are genres that someone added at RYM or MusicBrainz that are very obscure genres from Africa or the inlands of BoraBora, and/or more 'academic' genres that don't even have one single release attached to them.

If I add something that seems worthwhile to mention, I usually create an 'updated' post. (which you would get an email notification for if you are subscribed to this topic)
But maybe I should do that every time, even if the change is very minor.
I'll think about it.

edit
Hm, looking back I have indeed been very sparse in communicating when things were updated.
For those interested, the last time the files were updated was 21-01-2024.
(I will usually update weekly or so)

Spoiler ahead:
The next update will include:
Mataali and Uyghur muqam!

Yes!!!
+1 if you want that tomorrow!
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: schenell on January 27, 2024, 06:36:17 PM
Thanks for fast reply:) Just started to get my music files in order using Picard and MusicBee and find this forum and many of your tips/tricks so be very useful for a neewbie like me. Espacially that part with scripts and stuff like that. Just a short question, sorry if it's a bit out of this thread but are you also using Picard forum for similair posts like those here?That page wasn't so easy to scan compairing to this forum. Got some questions and looking for answers:) Thanks again..
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on January 27, 2024, 06:43:41 PM
Just a short question, sorry if it's a bit out of this thread but are you also using Picard forum for similair posts like those here?
No, I am not very active on the MusicBrainz forum these days.
(for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread)

So you'll probably won't find anything from me there that isn't available on this forum.
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on February 04, 2024, 09:26:56 AM
updated
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: Dzib on February 27, 2024, 07:56:52 AM
Hi, I don't know how it happened but since this morning, the enhanced genre is no longer available from the tag explorer.
That's strange because I didn't changed anything and yesterday and everything was working fine.

(https://i.ibb.co/v4QKPBg/image.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on March 09, 2024, 04:24:03 PM
Hi, I don't know how it happened but since this morning, the enhanced genre is no longer available from the tag explorer.
That's strange because I didn't changed anything and yesterday and everything was working fine.
I'm trusting that it was some glitch, and things are o.k. now?
Title: Re: Enhanced Genre hierarchy list
Post by: hiccup on March 10, 2024, 11:59:52 AM
updated, added new genres and a new feature:

I have added a node for classical work types that only shows what are considered to be 'work types' a.k.a. 'compositional forms'.

(https://i.imgur.com/sMYtDJn.png)

These are the worktypes it can contain:

(https://i.imgur.com/E7vNTf0.png)


All other 'genres' or 'styles' are filtered out for that node, making it a more comprehensive way of browsing your classical music without it being cluttered with too many genres.

Also, the 'work type' tag seems less subject to having been labeled incorrectly at MusicBrainz, which is often the case with the 'genre' tag.
So the results should be more correct then when using 'genre' for browsing.


Howto:

You'll need to create a Picard script that does something like this:

$setmulti(work_type,%_cwp_worktype_genres%)

And create a custom tag in MusicBee like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/OFJ3TCY.png)

That's pretty much all that's needed.



Note that not all classical music has been tagged with work types in MusicBrainz database, so they will not show up in the Work type node.
They probably will in the Genre node though.
So what you could do is create a more complicated script that queries the Genre tag for valid Work type names, and write those to the Work type tag.

You could also improve the source, by adding missing work types to MusicBrainz' database and/or edit genres…