getmusicbee.com

General => General Discussions => Polls => Topic started by: hiccup on February 15, 2020, 08:03:50 PM

Title: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: hiccup on February 15, 2020, 08:03:50 PM
Having spent a lot of time on this forum and learning about and encountering all sorts of issues, there is something that keeps nagging and bugging me:

There are currently three options to install MusicBee: full, portable, and 'store'.
For the sake of making my case, I'm going to list a brief and opinionated summary of these three versions:

Full Install:

- Antivirus software causing problems.
  Over the years there have been many bug reports and posts on issues that proved to be caused by antivirus software.

- Difficult to restore MusicBee settings to a new PC or a new Windows install.
  You'll have to learn and understand  which folders and files you need to locate and back-up, and how to restore them to your new install.


'Store' version:


- Users posting and asking about issues that have already been resolved with more recent patches.

- Users asking for help, forum members trying to assist being unaware of the user using a 'store' version, which results in miscommunication about folder and file locations, "I am using the most recent MusicBee version" (which is usually not that recent), etc.


Portable install:

- no issues with antivirus software (if they occur, easy to resolve)

- easy to backup
('easy' is an understatement here; simply copy your whole MusicBee folder, back-it-up, paste it to a new install, whatever)

- easy to update

---------

Cut to the chase:

Why not just completely stop publishing and maintaining Full install and Store versions?

Are there valid and weighty benefits to them that trump the negatives that justify their existence?

.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: psychoadept on February 15, 2020, 08:17:02 PM
I think the biggest benefit to the Windows Store version is that more people will find it, although it certainly is causing its share of problems.

I use the full install for personal use and have no issues with it. I keep my whole user folder backed up, though, so restoring has rarely been an issue. i use a portable install to manage the files on my NAS, and a second clean install for testing plugins (at least when I can get back to it).
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: hiccup on February 15, 2020, 08:19:35 PM
I use the full install for personal use and have no issues with it.

O.k., so no issues. Any benefits?
What would you miss if full install didn't exist?
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: phred on February 15, 2020, 08:21:23 PM
Brilliant topic for a poll, hiccup.

I can't find it now, but I seem to recall a reason why Steven introduced the Store version. I -think- it had to do with availability (or lack thereof) of the MB website in some countries.

As one of the forum members who who is constantly replying "which version are you using?" I wish it were never introduced. It seems to cause more questions than the other versions. Plus the fact that it doesn't get updated as often.

I can see a reason for keeping the installer. Some users are not computer literate and don't know what "unzip to a directory of your choice" means. The installer takes care of that. I see that often when users don't understand how to apply a patch.

A question for Steven: is it worth your time to maintain and support the Store version? Especially in light of your recent life changes.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: phred on February 15, 2020, 08:23:36 PM
O.k., so no issues. Any benefits?
What would you miss if full install didn't exist?

I can see a reason for keeping the installer. Some users are not computer literate and don't know what "unzip to a directory of your choice" means. The installer takes care of that. I see that often when users don't understand how to apply a patch.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: psychoadept on February 15, 2020, 08:27:19 PM
O.k., so no issues. Any benefits?
What would you miss if full install didn't exist?

Mainly full OS integration. I mean, most of that could be set up with a little extra effort but if I don't have to mess with it I'm happy not to.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: hiccup on February 15, 2020, 08:33:43 PM
Mainly full OS integration. I mean, most of that could be set up with a little extra effort

Just out of curiosity; what does 'full OS integration' pertain to here?
(I may have forgotten what steps and actions I usually perform when doing a portable install)
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: sveakul on February 15, 2020, 08:38:45 PM
I couldn't agree more about the inherent problems of choosing the Store version;  perhaps these could be made more evident to users on the Downloads page when they are deciding which version to use--though of course that wouldn't help people who are actually at the Microsoft Store site.

As far as the Installer, phred gives a good reason why it's perfect for those who can't grasp the "unzip-to" nature of the Portable, although if that was the ONLY reason for it it could be designed to just do a "wink-wink" portable-type install on its own.  I think the main purpose of it is that it follows the Windows "Users" convention to allow for multiple users on the same machine, each with their own settings, and creates the normal Start-menu-type shortcuts people are familiar with.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: psychoadept on February 15, 2020, 08:44:07 PM
Showing up as an "installed" program and so on (what sveakul says). I think it used to make it easier to use as a default program, although I'm not sure that's the case anymore.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: hiccup on February 15, 2020, 08:51:46 PM
... why Steven introduced the Store version. I -think- it had to do with availability ...

I should be the first to acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things, for this poll I am only looking at this from the narrow standpoint of a seasoned and reasonably savvy computer- and MusicBee user.

It may well be that store and full install versions help to make MusicBee more popular, and that may well be a valid motive.

But arrogant me then thinks: obviously it will take some effort to find and learn how to appreciate gems.
And I feel that a possible lack of filtering (the existence of the store version for example) can be some burden on this forum.

"Hey, I just want to play my music. Why is this MusicBee so complicated? It is messing with my files. Why are there no step-by-step tutorials with nice pictures?"
;-)
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBEe?
Post by: hiccup on February 15, 2020, 08:57:18 PM
... As far as the Installer, phred gives a good reason why it's perfect for those who can't grasp the "unzip-to" nature of the Portable ...

I don't believe there is much of 'unzip to' happening with the portable installer?

I think in the past I have even been inclined to suggest to have the portable installer prompt more obviously that it will install a portable version. I remember having wanted to install a portable version, but not reading the prompts too well, and getting it installed on c:\ anyway.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: sveakul on February 15, 2020, 10:08:30 PM
I don't believe there is much of 'unzip to' happening with the portable installer?

I think in the past I have even been inclined to suggest to have the portable installer prompt more obviously that it will install a portable version. I remember having wanted to install a portable version, but not reading the prompts too well, and getting it installed on c:\ anyway.

I took a look at the Portable version's "install" screens since it was ages ago I actually ran it instead of applying update patches manually.  Screen #1 says this:

(https://i.imgur.com/wELkKIM.jpg)

Screen #2 is a license agreement; Screen #3 says this:

(https://i.imgur.com/ijJ69Ru.jpg)

On #1 a point of confusion might be the mention of "updating relevant system files", which is not relevant to a Portable install.  Also, it would be nice if this screen included text to the tune of "..this will install all MusicBee files and settings to a single folder of your choice."

On #3, the default destination folder would be better shown as "C:\MusicBee" instead of one in the Windows Users hierarchy--a poor choice at any rate for a Portable install, and one that may cause confusion later as to if the user has a portable or installer version when discussing things like where to put updates, etc.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: frankz on February 15, 2020, 10:31:09 PM
I can see a reason for keeping the installer. Some users are not computer literate and don't know what "unzip to a directory of your choice" means. The installer takes care of that. I see that often when users don't understand how to apply a patch.
I use the installer version.  I have portable versions of some programs, but for most portable programs I usually don't remember I have them or forget what they are or what they do and then look at the folder and try to figure out what it is years later before deleting it.  If something is not in use every day or not in my face as a tile in the start menu, it's easy to forget about.

I like to install things and have icons in my start menu for them and have them show up in my "Installed Programs" list and be available in the Default Apps list and things like that. It's the way things are done and understood to be done by most people and I don't think that should change.

I agree the Store version is a problem.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: Steven on February 15, 2020, 10:50:43 PM
Just in regard to the Store version, I dont particularly like it myself due to lack of support for patch versions. However its there because I was getting a lot of requests for it and I think many users like stamp of Microsoft approval a store version brings, as well as the auto-update feature (for stable releases).
Also keep in mind you see on the forum the worst of cases for problems with users. I am sure there are many users of MusicBee quitely using it without any issues at all and very happy to have it occasionally update.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: phred on February 15, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
... I think many users like stamp of Microsoft approval a store version brings, as well as the auto-update feature (for stable releases).
Also keep in mind you see on the forum the worst of cases for problems with users. I am sure there are many users of MusicBee quitely using it without any issues at all and very happy to have it occasionally update.
Two very good points.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: Sofocl on February 23, 2020, 04:00:14 AM
I'm definitely for the portable version.
If you create a single installer for the portable and installation version (for example, as in AIMP), you can recommend a portable version with explanations of how it differs from the installation version, which is selected by default.
(https://i.imgur.com/nCMtysV.jpg)
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: Pegleg on March 14, 2020, 12:51:49 PM
Didn't even consider using the portable version, mainly because for an awful lot of other programs portable just means it starts from basics every time, there is generally no way to "port" the tweeks and layout.
I will try "portable" on my wife's laptop, set it up like mine then see if I can "port" it, layout, tweeks, skins etc.

The store version is a pain, unless you know where Microsoft in their wisdow (sic), hide the files.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: phred on March 14, 2020, 01:15:10 PM
I will try "portable" on my wife's laptop, set it up like mine then see if I can "port" it, layout, tweeks, skins etc.
You don't seem to understand what portable means. The entire application sits in its own directory. When you want to move it, you copy the entire directory (to a flash drive, etc) and then copy it to a new location. If you're storing your music files on the local PC, you just need to make sure the path is the same as on the original PC.

For -any- MB version you can save the panel arrangements and share them with another PC or user.
Title: Re: Could we get rid of 'Store' and 'full install' versions of MusicBee?
Post by: hiccup on March 14, 2020, 02:49:36 PM
I will try "portable" on my wife's laptop, set it up like mine then see if I can "port" it, layout, tweeks, skins etc.
The store version is a pain, unless you know where Microsoft in their wisdow (sic), hide the files.

Yeah, it will indeed be some effort to port things manually.
What could make it slightly easier, is if you would create a clean portable install on the same pc that currently has the store version.
You could then open them both, have them side-by side, and then copy/paste all relevant settings, custom and virtual tags, etc. from one to the other.
Then after that portable install is fully to your liking, copy the whole portable installation folder to your wife's laptop?