getmusicbee.com
General => MusicBee Wishlist => Topic started by: antiPOP on February 26, 2011, 12:58:55 PM
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Not a real bug, just an issue. I noticed that Auto-Tagger is not able to find tags for many albums from my library, I've tried to find tags using foobar2000 and I found. Here is the example for one album.
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6272/94099120.png) (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/94099120.png/)
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5677/55966932.png) (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/55966932.png/)
Why foobar is able to find tags for an album and MB isn't?
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does it find a match if you take away the 8 tracks on disc?
the other thing is i have yet to add discogs as a source for album tracks (its only used for genre at the moment). I wouldnt be surprised if foobar is using discogs
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There is 8 tracks on the that album.
Foobar isn't using discogs, there is a plugin for discogs but I don't use it.
If you have installed foobar look at feedb Tagger preferences. MB is using freedb.freedb.org server and foobar is only using freedb2.org server, maybe that makes the difference or not.. dunno. For some reason foobar is more relevant.
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for the album auto-tagger, MB is currently only using musicbrainz
MB uses freedb for CD tracks only
i do plan to add discogs and now you mention it, also no reason not to include freedb as a fallback when no match found
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Yeah, If you add freedb as fallback MB Auto-Tagger will be more relevant.
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for the album auto-tagger, MB is currently only using musicbrainz
MB uses freedb for CD tracks only
i do plan to add discogs and now you mention it, also no reason not to include freedb as a fallback when no match found
Excellent idea :) There are many enhancements suggested for the Auto-Tagger on the Wishlist, but these two improvements would definitely move this tool to the next level.
AntiPOP your comparison of Foobar and MB autotagging capabilities seems to be great stimulus for the long awaited changes ;) I guess when the enhancements are implemented, no one would even think about using any other app for auto-tagging 8)
+1
I used many other apps for tagging my audio collection and MB Auto-Tager and Tag Editor is definitely the best one in terms of usability (excellent GUI !!!). But there is certainly room for the improvements when it comes to effectiveness, so adding more web services is a major step forward.
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i dont think this is a bug but i have now included freedb if you want to try it out (not discogs as yet)
http://www.mediafire.com/?bun5lbyo4jczjfb
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Its better, I found tags for Lumina album, but foobar still returns me more result
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2lmpfg0.png)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/wlc7qc.png)
I figure out why foobar is more relevant. Foobar doesn't need album title or artist name and is just searching tags using discID and thats why is able to find more tags.
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I just test with the another album and this time Auto-Tagger returns me with wrong tracks tags
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6365/88684791.th.png) (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/88684791.png/)
I've checked @ cduniverse and discogs and the real tracks list is
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8281/cduniverse.th.png) (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/cduniverse.png/)
I've tried to find tags with foobar and Tag&Rename and both of them returns me with the proper tracks tags
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1672/55982744.th.png) (http://img801.imageshack.us/i/55982744.png/)
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6915/tagrename.th.png) (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/tagrename.png/)
So, I think there is a bug in MusicBee auto-tagger.
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there is a couple of bugs with the parsing in those cases for new free-db handler
this should fix them:
http://www.mediafire.com/?2akhyprw4c67m4y
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Thanks, I got proper tags for Andreas Lonardoni, but still I can't find the tags for Hansford Rowe album. One more thing, searching process is talking too much time. I think the best solution is to give highest priority to freedb based on discID lookup the same as is for audio cds. MusicBrainz and Discogs (when will be implemented) should work as fallback.
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handsford rowe is fine for me - its possble freedb just timed out when you tried
regarding the search time, i usually find musicbrainz fast and freedb much slower. Right now musicbrainz is sometimes very slow
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Weired. I've tried a few times, not one after the other, and Auto-Tagger always returns me with "No matches found". The last version which I have is 1.2.4074.32059.
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can you send a screenshot of the album-autotagger so i can see the exact criteria you are using for the search
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Here you go:
(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8384/przechwytywanievt.th.png) (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/przechwytywanievt.png/)
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i'm using Handsford Rowe where as you are using Hansford Rowe
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Because its a wrong tag, I've replaced today with the proper name which is Hansford. Take a look
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8564/coverwhb.th.jpg) (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/coverwhb.jpg/)
Indeed, in the freedb is a wrong tag Handsford Rowe, foobar just returns me with that name.
So, no problem at all. Thanks for your time. Great job!
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A little bug
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2268/przechwytywanieuw.th.png) (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/przechwytywanieuw.png/)
EDIT: Please add freedb2.org source for the genre because I'm getting completely false results in first place.
I gave highest priority, for discogs and I'm getting more reliable results, but not always. foobar returns me with proper genre tag in most cases.
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could you give me a couple of examples so i can check it out
i've fixed the minor GUI bug
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Try with Adam Holzman & Brave New World / The Big Picture ( I got Classical Guitar genre tag, the proper is Jazz Fusion or Fusion) Adam Nitti / Liquid Blue (I got Folk, World, & Country ), Alan Joseph / Heavy Water Music ( I got Electronic genre tag, the proper is jazz) . I could give you a bunch examples. freedb almost always returns me correct genre tag. To be honest, I don't need to change any genre tag, but for those who looking for tags it could be confusing.
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Alan Joseph / Heavy Water Music
discogs has this as Electronic, freedb has it as misc and last.fm has no tags
are you saying foobar was able to return Jazz?
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Here you go:
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7673/przechwytywanierm.th.png) (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/przechwytywanierm.png/)
This is from Tag&Rename, but foobar returns me with jazz genre too. Both of them are using freedb.
Last.fm is not a good source for the genre tag.
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i'll move this to the wishlist - its not really a bug as it is getting the tags as reported by last.fm or discogs.
i'll add support for genres from freedb
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Thanks. But I think freedb should have the highest priority in the preferences, by default because is the most reliable source.
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There are a few requests on the forum to enhance the MB Auto-Tagger with full support for the Discogs (http://www.discogs.com/) service. According to the Wikipedia list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_online_music_databases) it has the largest database for Artists (1,6 million), the number of releases ( 2 million) and second when it comes to number of tracks (14,6 million).
Furthermore, it's available worldwide :)
Discogs is currently supported by the following Tag Editors:
MP3tag — freeware tag editor with Discogs support (batch and spreadsheet interfaces).
foobar2000 — freeware media player & music management software with a plugin for Discogs support.
TagScanner — freeware tag editor with Discogs, FreeDB, TrackType.org support.
ASMT MP3 Tagger — single release tagger with Discogs support.
Helium Music Manager — music management software with a plugin for Discogs support.
OrangeCD Catalog - music management software with Discogs support.
TigoTago — spreadsheet-based tag editor with Discogs support.
MP3 Collection Organizer — batch tagger with Discogs support.
The GodFather — freeware tag editor with Discogs script support.
The Tagger — MP3 and AAC formats tag editor for Mac OS X with Discogs support.
Tagog — Linux audio file tagger with Discogs support.
Jaikoz - OSX/Windows/Linux spreadsheet-based tag editor with Discogs support.
I hope the service will be fully implemented to the MB Auto-Tagger. Music Bee currently uses Discogs for Genre and Artwork retrieval, but not for other track details update nor Audio-CD ripping.
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VX,
I've always found discogs to be painfully slow. Are you actually finding cases where albums are not in musicbrainz or freedb but are in discogs? Its not to say i wont include it at some point, but as it stands it doesnt seem high-priority to me
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VX,
I've always found discogs to be painfully slow. Are you actually finding cases where albums are not in musicbrainz or freedb but are in discogs?
I can remember few albums only that were recognized with Discogs properly, but MusicBee was not able to recognize them. I did the test quite long time ago, when FreeDB service wasn't supported with MusicBee, so maybe the situation has changed and Discogs is not needed anymore ???
Maybe someone could make a fast test with a few Audio-CDs/Albums/Tracks that MusicBee is not able to retrieve proper and satisfactory tags and one of above mentioned Tag Editors with Discogs support gives better results ???
Thank you very much, AntiPOP for making the tests and comparisons with Foobar and FreeDB :)
I guess You gave some users a reason for abandon Foobar for good ;D (I'm using it alongside Quintessential Media Player and TagScanner mainly for testing purposes ;D )
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Doing some brief test I noticed two other bugs with Auto-Tagger that I'd like to be fixed. Wile listening to my Audio-CDs with MB I noticed that
1. MB shows wrong cover for the album by default from Last FM, but when I use Auto-Tag by Album it can find proper cover and lyrics for the track or album.
(http://i.imgur.com/e878x.png) (http://imgur.com/e878x)
2. Polish diacritical marks are not displayed properly in the Lyrics panel (wrong encoding by default).
(http://i.imgur.com/jHzN2.png) (http://imgur.com/jHzN2)
Note that I can reproduce the above mentioned bugs with wrong cover display and lyrics issue with many other Audio-CDs, not just the one shown above. The wrong cover is often shown for known international albums (Golden Stars: Engelbert for example).
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Once an album or artist name is set, the artwork lookup is exactly the same for CDs or for auto-tagging.
The artist/album for a CD is automated and based on lookup using a key derived from tracks on the CD. Notice on the album-autotagger that the album name of the release you selected has diacritic marks (even though you didnt search using diacritic marks), where-as the album name on the CD tracks doesnt have that.
I expect that would explain the difference.
For lyrics, its not uncommon for the lyric providers to have messed up encoding of lyrics on their side. If you give me the exact name of the artist and track title, and the order of the lyric providers in your preferences i can check
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Once an album or artist name is set, the artwork lookup is exactly the same for CDs or for auto-tagging.The artist/album for a CD is automated and based on lookup using a key derived from tracks on the CD. Notice on the album-autotagger that the album name of the release you selected has diacritic marks (even though you didnt search using diacritic marks), where-as the album name on the CD tracks doesnt have that. I expect that would explain the difference.
Not at all. Compare the following album with NO diacritic marks:
(http://i.imgur.com/Id9CD.png)
And to surprise you more, my album cover looks completely different than both shown above. (Mine album is manufactured and printed in WEST Germany as a Club Edition if you are curious ;) )
For lyrics, its not uncommon for the lyric providers to have messed up encoding of lyrics on their side. If you give me the exact name of the artist and track title, and the order of the lyric providers in your preferences i can check
As far as the lyrics issue I'm going to open another topic, probably in Bug Reports section, but I need more time to inspect the issue.
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Note the Genre differs in the last example. Foobar retrieves "Oldies" for the file, whereas Album Auto-Tagger names the Genre "Engelbert", which is meaningless and useless as a Genre. I could provide more examples for that inconsistent behaviour of Auto-Tagger when it comes to Genre retrieval if you like.
FreeDB is IMHO more reliable source for Genres than the one currently used with Auto-Tagger.
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i havent implemented genre from freedb yet.
for the cd artwork, everything is fine for me. It looks like the pictures are completely unrelated in your case. I can only give you a debug version if you are willing to try that
edit:
i think i know what the problem might be. Could you try opening the CD in the CD Ripper screen (no need to do the rip) and see whether the artwork is correct
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I can only give you a debug version if you are willing to try that
I can try it if that help to fix the bug.
Could you try opening the CD in the CD Ripper screen (no need to do the rip) and see whether the artwork is correct
For the first CD (Myslovitz) the artwork shown in CD-Ripper is incorrect (exactly the same one from LastFM as shown at the above picture). Moreover, the tags retrieved for the album with CD-Ripper have NO diacritic marks!
For the second album CD Ripper shows exactly the same cover as... Album Auto-Tagger (see the picture above).
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I did some tests with the tracks that MusicBee fails to retrieve an artwork for and found much easier way to improve the current solution.
It seems that after addition of FreeDB service, the Discogs support is not needed anymore. :)
I was able to find all the missing covers on Amazon 8)
I'll write more later.
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Just trying version 088. It looks that some tabs disappear randomly (the Editor is docked to Main Panel):
(http://i.imgur.com/vvXKH.png) (http://imgur.com/vvXKH)
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when multiple files are selected or a virtual file from a single album file with an embeded cuesheet is selected, a number of the tabs which are not applicable are not displayed. Its been this way since the start of MB
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when multiple files are selected or a virtual file from a single album file with an embeded cuesheet is selected, a number of the tabs which are not applicable are not displayed. Its been this way since the start of MB
Thanks for the explanation. It's quite logical IMHO. MB is even better than I'm aware of ;D
What about the above Artwork issue ??? Do you need any help with that ???
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i thought you found the problem above and you were going to write about it.
Can you send me your settings file (help/support/view settings). I will PM my email
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PM sent.
As far as Auto-Tagger improvements, what I really miss is:
1. support for Genre from FreeDB (to avoid updating genres with Artist names, which is quite common in current solution) - thankfully You are going to add this;
2. option to take into account track title in search criteria.
That option would narrow search results significantly when used with Album Auto-Tagger. If the Album Artist is taken into account (assuming that Album title is unknown), user have to browse through more than 20 albums of the Artist sometimes to find the one that contains the searched track. That is very time consuming activity and the feature could be automated by creating extra track title field in the search criteria. I'm sure it would work faster than current solution (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2687.0);
3. Better Artwork preview options for Auto-Tag by Track similar to TagScanner:
4. Optional improvements for Searching for Artwork:
- Auto-Tag by Track - search for Artwork of a single song by default (if not found - search for the Artwork of the Album or compilation)
- Auto-Tag by Album - search for Artwork of Album by default.
5. Auto-Tagg: Update Missing Pictures window adjustable to the content - it's impossible to adjust width of columns 'Name' and 'Status' and the text in the last column is often partially invisible ('Artist or album nam...' ??? - you must hover over to see it)
I'm going to write more about no. 3 i 4., but I need more time to test and rethink the problem. Helpfully implementing this would solve another Auto-Tagger issue (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2966.0).
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using your settings file i get the same incorrect artwork for Engelbert/Golden Stars - but its amazon.com thats returning the incorrect picture.
for the album-autotagger, if the file already has artwork associated (embeded, linked picture etc) it wont try and re-fetch the picture from the web, but you can force it to by clicking the artwork link under the picture. I expect you will see the same incorrect result
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i have made the following changes:
- autotag settings in the preferences now allow you to give preference to freedb or musicbrainz for tags
- autotag by album now gets genre from the metadata provider, so if the release you select from the album-autotagger dialog was retrieved from freedb you will get the freedb genre (musicbrainz tags/genres also look pretty good to me)
- only if the selected release has no genre from the provider, then MB will use the additional genre providers (last.fm/discogs) to get a genre
- as before autotag by track only uses musicbrainz as the freedb web-query is not well suited for this
- autotag by track now gets genre from musicbrainz and if no match, then last.fm/discogs as configured
- as a result autotag by track should be faster in most cases
this still needs more testing (so keep a copy of your current .exe) but should be ok as i have done basic testing
http://www.mediafire.com/?t64rf9t91it5ync
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I did some tests with the latest build: it seems stable and significantly faster in searching for tags in general than the previous one :)
Thank you very much for the implemented changes and enhancements :)
For tested set of tracks I couldn't get Artist Name instead of Genre, which is good and worth to mention compared to former results.
As far Auto-Tagger improvements listed above I'd change no. 3 with:
add an option to exclude tracks without Artwork from the search results
if Artwork Preview for a single track (similar to this existing in Album Auto-Tagger - much better than in TagScanner BTW) is harder to implement.
Auto-Tag by Track should work faster with this option enabled I believe, but what's more important - it won't update tracks with tag values that could result in Auto update missing Artwork failure in future attempts.
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Thanks Steven for the further improvements. This is exactly what I wanted to see. Great Job!
Edit: I did some test too, and still there is one thing to do, I think. Would be much better if for FreeDB MB could use DiscID because it will save some time. I've tried to find tags for one album, and MB didn't find correct ones, but foobar2000 does. I can give you an example if you need it.
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Auto-Tagger is getting better and better with every new release. More and more requested features have already been implemented or improved recently. Thank you very much :)
To sum up the above suggested improvements list and update it a bit:
1. - IMPLEMENTED;
2. -reconsider please;
3. - add an option to exclude tracks without Artwork from the search results
if Artwork Preview for a single track similar to this existing in Album Auto-Tagger is harder to implement. Auto-Tag by Track should work faster with this option enabled I believe, but what's more important - it won't update tracks with tag values that could result in Auto update missing Artwork failure in future attempts.
- minimum image size filter added instead ???
4. - to consider;
5. - I'd really love to see it. Auto-Tagger window should be auto-adjustable, because in order to read the whole message in the Status field log I have to hover the mouse indicator over it and there is enough free space in neighbouring "Name" field that is wasted.
6. (New one) Add Retry button for files that failed to auto-update and returned the error: 'Web-service failed with error: Protocol error - please try again'. Similar option could be applied to files that returned "Failed: Unable to match the name of the track" as well. An example usage (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=3015.msg15906#msg15906)
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2. option to take into account track title in search criteria.
That option would narrow search results significantly when used with Album Auto-Tagger. If the Album Artist is taken into account (assuming that Album title is unknown), user have to browse through more than 20 albums of the Artist sometimes to find the one that contains the searched track. That is very time consuming activity and the feature could be automated by creating extra track title field in the search criteria. I'm sure it would work faster than current solution;
++1 This is exactly what i thought yesterday...
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this includes an extra search field in the album-autotagger for track title:
http://www.mediafire.com/?geea5i6bh297oek
its filled in automatically if you are tagging just one track
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Steven, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR IMPLEMENTING THE FEATURE :) That was something I really miss in MB.
While testing it I found one minor bug and I have two small feature requests. The screenshot seems to explain it all, but if You need any extra feedback (for fixing the bug if possible or so), just let me know.
The reason why I don't want number of tracks on the disc to be specified automatically after the selection is that very often you don't have all the tracks form the album and the track number is wrong. I had to delete the number manually all the time.
Thanks for inspecting :)
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it cant make an exact match on the title - "Against All Odds" in the original title is not the same as the one from the retrieved album
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Ah yes, You are right :) And what about the suggested improvements ???
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dont agree - i think most people using this function will have complete albums and it greatly reduces the number of matches
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one thing i could do is if the highest track number of the selected files is greater than the number of tracks selected then it doesnt populate the 2 search fields
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one thing i could do is if the highest track number of the selected files is greater than the number of tracks selected then it doesnt populate the 2 search fields
What does it really mean??? (I don't understand the result of this improvement I'm afraid). And what about entering more than one track titles to search (let's say up to 3) ???
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7. One more improvement suggestion for Tagging tools:
Replace: Tools /Tagging Tools / Show Files with Missing Tags with Show Files with Tags to Edit
You mentioned once that You are going to implement similar feature for Artwork, but my suggestion is more general.
Let 'Show Files with Missing Artwork/Lyrics' remain as the options work great and are very useful, but all other inconsistencies in tags should be moved to the new menu entry 'Show Files with Tags to Edit'.
The main advantage of this solution would be that a user could determine by oneself the criteria to include the Tracks to Edit. It could be based on tag ratings, assigned to all tracks in the Library automatically in consideration of the score for every tag value/field.
For example:
Total score for perfectly rated track would be 100 points = max value after summing up all the partial components scores.
One of the partial components could be Lyrics - weight - 10 points, but 0 points when there is no lyrics for the track, and 5 points when there are some mistakes in the text (specified by the user manually)
Another could be Artwork - weight - 15 points, but
- max 8 if Artwork size is less than specified by the user;
- 0 - when there is no Artwork for the track (assigned automatically with MB based on tag values).
Another component could be Year, Album Title - 10 points if the tag field is updated, and 0 if not.
And so on.
Compare how it works with Rapid Tagger (freeware):
(http://i.imgur.com/lDqe1.png) (http://imgur.com/lDqe1)
User could choose easily, which tag inconsistencies are most important for him to fix by assigning higher rating score to selected tag values/fields. If an Artwork size is less than a value specified by the user, the track would score less in Tag/Artwork field, but it would still be included to edition alongside tracks with no Artwork.
I know that the screenshot doesn't fully cover the idea, but I think it could be inspiring.
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VX, do you really want to edit tags in a similar way? I think there is no support for solving of differential equations in MB too :)
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Supposing all tag ratings score is assigned automatically with MB in consideration of the score for every tag value/field, the function is worth considering IMHO.
Manual edition of certain tag fields score should be possible, most users wouldn't use this option very often though.
But it could be useful:
if you would like to replace a Lyrics or an Artwork in the future (when a better one is available) you could decrease the score so that the track would be shown when you choose "Show Tracks with Tags to Edit" option.
The feature could be complementary to the solution existing in MB.
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Maybe you're right. I don't need it and do not think that it will slowdown MB so its all up to Steven.
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this includes an extra search field in the album-autotagger for track title:
http://www.mediafire.com/?geea5i6bh297oek
its filled in automatically if you are tagging just one track
!!! so great, thanks steve!!!
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I hope you'll add FreeDB for a genre tag before public release.
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it should already be doing that - it gets the genre from the same source as the other metadata, so if the metadata comes from freedb then so does the genre. Only when there is no genre does it additionally try discogs and last.fm (if you have them enabled in the Tags(2) preferences). That was done a few weeks ago
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Well, it's doesn't work that way. Here is the proof.
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4610/87390731.png) (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/87390731.png/)
Tags for the same album retrieved by FreeDB tagger in foobar:
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1906/foobar.png) (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/foobar.png/)
The correct genre tag is "hardcore"
Unfortunately Auto-tagger in MB still can't find tags for some albums, one example:
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1829/mbnotags.png) (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/mbnotags.png/)
foobar doesn't have any problem
(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5661/foobartags.png) (http://img825.imageshack.us/i/foobartags.png/)
So, if foobar2000 can find the proper tags in freedb, why MB isn't able to find too? I've checked few times, so isn't not a temporary problem.
EDIT: I've removed artist name from Auto-Tagger and MB found the tags but without Artist Album tag.
Artist Album tag causes the problem, there should be two fields for the Artist tag. One, just "Artist" field for album of one artist and the second "Artist Album" filed for Various Artist albums.
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Unfortunately Auto-tagger in MB still can't find tags for some albums, one example(...)
So, if foobar2000 can find the proper tags in freedb, why MB isn't able to find too? I've checked few times, so isn't not a temporary problem.
Auto-Tagger is definitely much better with the recent updates than it was a few weeks ago. Thanks, Steven, btw :) But I must admit that I can't find metadata for some albums. I described the problem in this topic (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=1848.0)
Some users confirmed that there are Albums and Artists that are tagged properly only with Discogs service, which is currently not supported for retrieving metadata with Auto-Tagger.
It seems that setting Discogs as a fall-back service for Auto-Tagger would solve the problem, at least partially. What I can see in Your post is that improving FreeDB support would bring better results too.
But don't worry and forget about it for a while - the new STABLE and BUG-FREE version is to be released :)
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Well, it's doesn't work that way. Here is the proof.
i'll look into when i get some time but i can tell you now that foobar works a bit differently in that it calculates the disc id where as MB currently does as artist/ album search. So its possible MB found a different entry in freedb to foobar - one without a genre and so then looked up discogs or last.fm.
I do plan at some point to create a disc id calculation but its no so straight-foward and in fact i wonder whether foobar would work with albums where there is a gap offset on the first track.
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antiPop, i've just checked your example and its as i say. In this case freedb has 2 matching entries with the first having a genre of Polka and the second Hardcore.
Foobar is calculating a disc id which is why it could match the correct one
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Ok. Steven, thanks for explanation.
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still not the same as foobar, but now it returns both matches for cases like this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/?qy9o0ydyupuit8o
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MusicBee Auto-Tagger is getting better and better with every release !
I think the Auto-Tagger is one of the best tools available with MusicBee Manager.
Thank you very much, Steven for all the effort you've made to create and maintain this awesome tool :)