getmusicbee.com

General => MusicBee Wishlist => Topic started by: ost on March 10, 2018, 06:05:44 PM

Title: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on March 10, 2018, 06:05:44 PM
MB 3.2: Is it possible to add 16/24bit Depth in main window Displayed Fields, please? Now there's only Sample Rate.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: sveakul on March 12, 2018, 02:32:13 AM
+1 for Bit Depth optional display field for Track Information panels (16/24/32i/32float)
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: StefanIvanovic on March 17, 2018, 12:41:41 PM
+1

I'd like it especially in Track Information panel
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: mogpt on March 18, 2018, 12:32:29 PM
+1

I'd also appreciate this variable being more available. Especially for auto-playlist creation.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on March 18, 2018, 12:36:09 PM
Any file that is not 16 bit will display the bit depth in the track info panel (for the playing track not selected track)
I cant see anything more than that being implemented
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on March 18, 2018, 01:30:26 PM
Any file that is not 16 bit will display the bit depth in the track info panel (for the playing track not selected track)
I cant see anything more than that being implemented

Sorry, English is not my native language and maybe I desribed it wrong so I made a picture about what I've asked for:

(https://i.imgur.com/sA4QY7n.png)
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: redwing on March 18, 2018, 03:08:13 PM
Steven's saying he won't implement it. This has been discussed several times.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on March 18, 2018, 05:52:37 PM
OK  :(
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Bee-liever on March 19, 2018, 02:07:20 AM
But you could make a custom tag and implement it yourself :)
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Bee-liever on March 19, 2018, 03:33:02 AM
Actually, I'm using Mp3tag to write the bit depth tag, but as MB is already reading this to the database:
(http://i.cubeupload.com/wj0IzR.jpg)

If we had access to that 'read-only' tag than you could use a virtual tag like:
Code
$If($Contains(<Type>,", ")=T,$Split(<Type>,", ",2),)
to use just the bit depth.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: sveakul on March 19, 2018, 03:47:34 AM
Any file that is not 16 bit will display the bit depth in the track info panel (for the playing track not selected track)

I was unaware of that, thanks!  Bit depth over 16 is indeed shown in the Track Information panel of "Playing Tracks" when "Show track properties" is checked (there being no "tag" value for that in the custom display fields).  In the "Now Playing" panel layout configuration, the "Show track properties" check box does not exist for the Track Information panel, which explains why it does not display there.  If I had more 24-bit material I would have spotted it earlier :-[
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Bee-liever on March 21, 2018, 12:38:44 AM

Any file that is not 16 bit will display the bit depth in the track info panel (for the playing track not selected track)
I cant see anything more than that being implemented
If we had access to that 'read-only' tag than you could use a virtual tag like:
Code
$If($Contains(<Type>,", ")=T,$Split(<Type>,", ",2),)
to use just the bit depth.
@ Steven
So it's highly unlikely that you will do this?
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on March 21, 2018, 07:44:06 PM
Its not stored in the database. Its retrieved from the music file when viewed in the properties tab of the tag editor and also for the track info panel playing track
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Bee-liever on March 22, 2018, 02:09:22 AM
Ah-hah!
That fills in the gaps in the information  ;)
I'll continue with the custom tag work'round
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on March 31, 2018, 05:39:04 PM
As this has come up quite often, i have now added database support for bit depth.
The value will be automatically saved for new files, but for your existing files, you will need to rescan them (right click/ Send To/ Rescan Files)
The new "Bit Depth" field can be displayed, sorted, filtered as any field

http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_2/MusicBee32_Patched.zip
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on March 31, 2018, 05:43:43 PM
THANX STEVEN!!!
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Alumni on April 01, 2018, 04:44:17 AM
As this has come up quite often, i have now added database support for bit depth.
The value will be automatically saved for new files, but for your existing files, you will need to rescan them (right click/ Send To/ Rescan Files)
The new "Bit Depth" field can be displayed, sorted, filtered as any field

http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_2/MusicBee32_Patched.zip

A very welcome addition, thanks for adding this!
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: CritterMan on April 01, 2018, 05:34:03 AM
I've found a couple of uses. Pairs nicely with sample rate.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: frankz on April 01, 2018, 06:51:40 AM
Since no human could hear the difference between 16 and 24 bit without deafening themselves in the process, it'll be helpful to have a visual clue to see if any files are wasting the space.  ;D

Seriously, though, happy for those who wanted it.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Bee-liever on April 01, 2018, 10:54:38 AM
@ Steven
Thanks for doing this but I do have a minor issue.
After rescanning my library, I noticed my lossy compression files (mp3, aac, etc) are all showing a bit depth of 16.
As no lossy compression format has an associated bit depth, shouldn't they be blank or have N/A?
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 01, 2018, 11:08:25 AM
As no lossy compression format has an associated bit depth, shouldn't they be blank or have N/A?
While you are correct, i felt most users wont know that and have the idea that its 16-bit. So less "bug" reports if its stated as 16-bit
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: CritterMan on April 01, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
I hadn't noticed that since I have such a small amount of lossy content. Audacity refers to MP3 and AAC files as "32-bit float." I suppose that's as accurate a description as any. But I really don't know if there's an industry standard. "Float" might be a good option, but I suspect the goal with this implementation is to keep the value down to two characters for nice, thin columns. I'd like suggest " 8) " and " ::) " as alternatives.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 01, 2018, 03:44:22 PM
Well i could change it to display "?" which is what foobar does. I still cant help feeling thats going to cause confusion to most people though.
If i did that, MB would treat the value as -1 in terms of sorting
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: redwing on April 01, 2018, 03:52:22 PM
For me both mp3tag and foobar show nothing for lossy format files when the field is added to a column.
I think MB could do the same thing.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 01, 2018, 05:09:48 PM
for the next update i have changed it to show blank for lossy files. The value for filtering/ sorting purposes is 0
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: CritterMan on April 01, 2018, 05:46:38 PM
for the next update i have changed it to show blank for lossy files. The value for filtering/ sorting purposes is 0

No matter what you do, you're going to get people telling you it's wrong. At least this way, you're not giving a false answer and they'll be separate from actual 16 bit depth files for sorting.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 01, 2018, 07:26:52 PM
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_2/MusicBee32_Patched.zip
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on April 01, 2018, 07:59:19 PM
Hmm, before last update all my mp3 and m4a files was showing correct bit depth - 16 bit. Now it's Unknown Bit Depth  :-\
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 01, 2018, 08:33:06 PM
Hmm, before last update all my mp3 and m4a files was showing correct bit depth - 16 bit. Now it's Unknown Bit Depth  :-\
the change made is technically correct in that lossy files have an undefined bit-depth. But i suspect most people dont know that and think its 16-bit. I will leave it a day to allow for other's comments but i am inclined to revert it to show 16 bit for lossy files
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on April 01, 2018, 08:39:18 PM
I think that "16 bit" looks better than "Unknown Bit Depth" even if it's not correct.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: sveakul on April 01, 2018, 10:17:00 PM
Audacity refers to MP3 and AAC files as "32-bit float." I suppose that's as accurate a description as any. But I really don't know if there's an industry standard. "Float" might be a good option, but I suspect the goal with this implementation is to keep the value down to two characters for nice, thin columns.

IMO CritterMan's suggestion above would be the most spot-on;  if a two-character designation is a must, perhaps either "FL" or "3F", if 3 characters then "32F" would be good.  ost I hear ya as far as seeing "Unknown bit depth" for every mp3/m4a being an eyesore.  Thanks Steven for leaving comments open.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on April 01, 2018, 10:24:23 PM
if a two-character designation is a must, perhaps either "FL" or "3F", if 3 characters then "32F" would be good.

100% agree  ;)
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Bee-liever on April 01, 2018, 10:37:08 PM
Technically, when compression takes place, the various lossy codecs discard the set bit depth and as part of their space saving algorithms, change them to variable bit depth.
So maybe VAR would be a suitable solution.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: CritterMan on April 01, 2018, 11:58:34 PM
I can see why this feature was avoided for so long. Unknown would probably be too often confused for "something is wrong."

For me both mp3tag and foobar show nothing for lossy format files when the field is added to a column.
I think MB could do the same thing.

I agree with redwing. It shouldn't appear alongside files it doesn't apply to. But, to display nothing would probably also be seen as an error.

Bee-liever seems to have a good suggestion, but since so many users could have so many ideas of what it should be, I think perhaps some more complexity may be required:

-Choose a default behavior, maybe even 16.
-Provide an option to make it user-defineable, including blank so it could be ignored in formulas if not present.

Code
$IsNull(<Bit Depth>,,"Bit Depth: "<Bit Depth>)
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: frankz on April 02, 2018, 12:18:57 AM
I'll not use the data column so I'm not sure my opinion counts for much here, but 16-bit is the generally accepted linguistic shortcut for mp3 files.  People are going to expect that they are 16 bit because that's what they've always been referred to as (16/44.1).  So I agree that showing 16-bit, while maybe not technically correct, is traditionally correct.

By the way, Audacity opens files for editing in 32 bit float as a default. It's not a reflection of the bit depth of the file itself, it's the mode in which Audacity is allowing the file to be edited for minimum dynamic range loss.  Bit depth is related to dynamic range. Sample rate is related to frequencies.  That's why no human being can detect the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit without deafening themselves in the process (you'd need to turn it up inhumanly loud for the difference to reveal itself), but a handful of human beings (that can hear above 20,000) can tell the difference between 44.1khz and 96khz.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Bee-liever on April 02, 2018, 01:09:39 AM
For me both mp3tag and foobar show nothing for lossy format files when the field is added to a column.
I think MB could do the same thing.

This is what I had when using a custom tag and Mp3tag to write the value.
Since MB is automatically populating the field on file import, maybe the best outcome would be;
1/:  "Unknown" for any older unscanned files
2/:  Bit Depth for lossless formats
3/:  Leave it blank for lossy formats with the tooltip; "Only lossless formats have fixed bit depth"
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: redwing on April 02, 2018, 02:32:24 AM
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

I think that "16 bit" looks better than "Unknown Bit Depth" even if it's not correct.

Are you using a virtual tag for the field in the column since that's the only place I can see "Unknown Bit Depth" and it's blank everywhere else?
If you want to see blank rather than "Unknown Bit Depth", use this code in place of <Bit Depth>.
Code
$IsNull(<Bit Depth>,,<Bit Depth>)
Also if you prefer to see 16 (or whatever) instead for all files with the field blank, use this.
Code
$IsNull(<Bit Depth>,16,<Bit Depth>)

for the next update i have changed it to show blank for lossy files.

AAC files still show 16.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 02, 2018, 07:36:42 AM
AAC files still show 16.
only if MB thinks its an ALAC file. Is it the same if you rescan it?
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: redwing on April 02, 2018, 07:48:49 AM
Yes, rescanning shows 16 for AAC files.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 02, 2018, 07:54:47 AM
would you mind sending me a link to the file? I have a lot of aac files and they work fine
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on April 02, 2018, 07:55:11 AM
Thanx redwing!  :)
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 02, 2018, 07:55:48 AM
Hmm, before last update all my mp3 and m4a files was showing correct bit depth - 16 bit. Now it's Unknown Bit Depth  :-\
are you using the field in a virtual tag, or can you explain how you are using the field?
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: ost on April 02, 2018, 08:02:15 AM
Hmm, before last update all my mp3 and m4a files was showing correct bit depth - 16 bit. Now it's Unknown Bit Depth  :-\
are you using the field in a virtual tag, or can you explain how you are using the field?

Virtual tag: {font: Amazon Ember;Italic;8}<.Ext> · <Sample Rate>·<Bit Depth> bit

After redwing advice I changed it to {font: Amazon Ember;Italic;8}<.Ext> · <Sample Rate>·$IsNull(<Bit Depth>,16,<Bit Depth>) bit and everything is fine.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: redwing on April 02, 2018, 08:09:16 AM
would you mind sending me a link to the file?

PMed an iTunes-purchased one.
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 02, 2018, 08:25:37 AM
PMed an iTunes-purchased one.
yes i get the same and its fixed for the next update
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 02, 2018, 08:45:36 AM
This is what I had when using a custom tag and Mp3tag to write the value.
Since MB is automatically populating the field on file import, maybe the best outcome would be;
1/:  "Unknown" for any older unscanned files
2/:  Bit Depth for lossless formats
3/:  Leave it blank for lossy formats with the tooltip; "Only lossless formats have fixed bit depth"
Because of the last change i made, i wont be able to do 1
I agree 3 is a good idea, so i will add a tooltip in the main bit-depth column where applicable - not implemented as i am not sure users would think to hover the mouse over the field

Also when <bit depth> is used in virtual tags, rather than saying "Unknown Bit Depth", i will change it to stay blank
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: Steven on April 02, 2018, 01:38:21 PM
fix for rescanning some lossy m4a files incorrectly setting the bit depth to 16

http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_2/MusicBee32_Patched.zip
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: redwing on April 02, 2018, 02:20:12 PM
It's fixed. Thanks!
Title: Re: 16/24bit depth column
Post by: sveakul on April 02, 2018, 08:05:02 PM
Also if you prefer to see 16 (or whatever) instead for all files with the field blank, use this.
Code
$IsNull(<Bit Depth>,16,<Bit Depth>)

Between the default for lossy now being "blank", and access to the code above (thanks redwing!),  all bases are covered! 8)