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General => MusicBee Wishlist => Topic started by: Yo on August 28, 2017, 05:38:10 AM

Title: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Yo on August 28, 2017, 05:38:10 AM
New Tagging Tool: Album Type  :)

Hello, I'm new here (hehe) i have a new idea for the player...an album type tag! to a better oraginzation of albums

(https://k60.kn3.net/B/C/4/5/3/5/8D3.png)

As you see, my library is organized by albums (I tag it myself with help of wikipedia, some are untagged in the photo). But i think all it's messy up because sometimes it's confusing search for the right studio album (what happens with the rolling stones and their big discography)
So here is my idea:

(Example)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Doors:

Studio:

- The Doors (1967)
- Strange Days (1967)
- Waiting For The Sun (1968)
- The Soft Parade (1969)
- Morrison Hotel (1970)
- L.A. Woman (1971)
- An American Prayer (1978)

Post-Discography:

- Other Voices (1971)
- Full Circle (1972)

Live:

- Absolutely Live (1970)
And Some Other...

Compilation:

- The Future Starts Here: The Essential Doors Hits (2008)
And Some Other...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But There Are Many Other Album Types Depending Of The Artist, Like:

Tribute Albums : (Usually Various Artist)

Stoned Immaculate: The Music of The Doors (2000)
Stone Free: A Tribute to Jimi Hendrix (1993)
AHK-toong BAY-bi Covered: A Tribute to U2 (2011)
Working Class Hero: A Tribute to John Lennon (2005)
etc...

Remix Albums: (Can Vary Between A Full Studio Album Or Random Songs Remixed)

Limp Bizkit - New Old Songs (2001)
Linkin Park - Reanimation (2002)
Michael Jackson - Blood on the Dance Floor: HIStory in the Mix (1997)
etc...


Demo Albums: (And Sampler Albums, They Are The Same)
Fall Out Boy - Evening's Out With Your Girlfriend (2002)
Green Day - Demo-licious (2014)
System Of A Down - Self-Titled (1998)

Soundtrack Albums: (Usually Various Artist Or Single Artist)
Queen - Flash Gordon (1980)
The Who - Quadrophenia (1979)
S*x Pistols - The Great Rock 'N' Roll Swindle (1979)
etc...

Cover Albums: (Don't confuse with Tribute Albums)
Metallica - Garage Inc. (1998)
etc..

Box-Set Albums: (For Those About Who Like A Big Collection Of Music, Like Me)
Nirvana - With The Lights Out (2004)
AC/DC - Backtracks (2009)
Led Zeppelin - Self-Titled Boxset (1990)

And Finally...Extended Plays (EP's)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, i got to end the post here because i don't know if there's a limit of characters words ::) I hope someone can answer me and help me on the support of this magnificent player, thanks
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on August 28, 2017, 11:33:51 AM
...and album type tag! to a better oraginzation of albums
I currently use the Grouping tag for this.
Album
Album [10"]
Album [Compilation]
Box Set
EP
Single [7"]
Single [10"]
Single [12"]
Single [CDS]
Single [CDMS]
File [Digital Media]
are some of the release criteria I have
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Yo on August 28, 2017, 12:02:50 PM
...and album type tag! to a better oraginzation of albums
I currently use the Grouping tag for this.
Album
Album [10"]
Album [Compilation]
Box Set
EP
Single [7"]
Single [10"]
Single [12"]
Single [CDS]
Single [CDMS]
File [Digital Media]
are some of the release criteria I have
(sorry about that...)
Could you explain more, please?  :D
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: psychoadept on August 28, 2017, 01:58:09 PM
I removed your font tags because black text is unreadable in the dark forum skin.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: andrew on August 30, 2017, 03:27:40 AM
i think i know what you want to achieve and here is how to do it.

1. tag your music with "custom 1" in the "tags 2" header as either: live, Studio, compilation....whatever.

2. right click the top panel and select Group by > Custom Tags > Custom 1

Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Yo on August 30, 2017, 08:13:35 AM
i think i know what you want to achieve and here is how to do it.

1. tag your music with "custom 1" in the "tags 2" header as either: live, Studio, compilation....whatever.

2. right click the top panel and select Group by > Custom Tags > Custom 1



Yes, it is now grouped by album type, but then can not be grouped by artist as well?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on August 30, 2017, 12:48:09 PM
@ Paul_Stone342
Sorry for not replying sooner, but sometimes there is just not enough hours in the day to get everything done!

As I said I use the in-built grouping tag, (so as not to waste a custom tag)
(http://i.imgur.com/assTDHt.jpg)

you can then use a custom sorting
(http://i.imgur.com/Cz6zVSU.jpg)

for me, this sorts as Albums; Albums [live]; EP's; Singles
(http://i.imgur.com/4o2d3Sm.jpg) (http://imgur.com/4o2d3Sm)

what it doesn't do is break them up into those groups with a nice sorting sub-header  :(
If your wish is about being able to do that as well,
then I certainly give it +1
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: phred on August 30, 2017, 07:32:35 PM
@Bee-liever...

What skin are you showing in your previous post?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on August 30, 2017, 10:51:47 PM
No problems phred, it's Lapis Lazuli from the Light Styles series.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Yo on August 31, 2017, 07:12:26 AM
@ Paul_Stone342
Sorry for not replying sooner, but sometimes there is just not enough hours in the day to get everything done!

As I said I use the in-built grouping tag, (so as not to waste a custom tag)
(http://i.imgur.com/assTDHt.jpg)

you can then use a custom sorting
(http://i.imgur.com/Cz6zVSU.jpg)

for me, this sorts as Albums; Albums [live]; EP's; Singles
(http://i.imgur.com/4o2d3Sm.jpg) (http://imgur.com/4o2d3Sm)

what it doesn't do is break them up into those groups with a nice sorting sub-header  :(
If your wish is about being able to do that as well,
then I certainly give it +1

Well thanks for your help and reply, I also understand that one can not be connected all day.
Even so it would be nice to be grouped by two tags...like a sub-group?, also thanks for your support  :)  (And...What a nice skin!)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Steven on September 10, 2017, 07:43:28 PM
what it doesn't do is break them up into those groups with a nice sorting sub-header  :(
If your wish is about being able to do that as well,
then I certainly give it +1
Can you explain some more what you mean - could you do a simple mock up?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on September 11, 2017, 02:00:14 AM
Can you explain some more what you mean - could you do a simple mock up?
As you can see from the previous posts, I'm using a custom sort:
Album Artist/ Grouping/ Release Sort Index/ Album
The panel is also grouped by Album Artist.

Taking your sub-grouping header idea from the Album and Tracks view
(https://i.imgur.com/mQA6M4U.png)

and ading it as a 'sub-sorting header' option to the Artwork view
(http://i.imgur.com/X02e9qC.jpg) (https://imgur.com/X02e9qC)

it would break the artwork up into seperately labelled groups
(http://i.imgur.com/vulVjt9.jpg) (https://imgur.com/vulVjt9)

I've made the assumption that the sub-sorting header dropdown is only populated by the options used in the currently selected custom sorting as MB will then know where to put the breaks in the currently sorted view.

For comparison, this is how it currently shows up:
(http://i.imgur.com/RVXtPrz.png) (https://imgur.com/RVXtPrz)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Steven on September 19, 2017, 07:30:42 PM
sub-grouping the artwork panel is done for v3.2
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on September 19, 2017, 10:46:22 PM
sweet I've  wanted this  for ages..   thank you ..  thank you  .. thank you .. i will send you some money soon
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on September 19, 2017, 10:50:55 PM
sub-grouping the artwork panel is done for v3.2
Thank you  :)
So much to look forward too in the 3.2 beta releases!
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on September 23, 2017, 11:36:33 AM
thank you for adding this  I donated again hope we get a link soon  :) great work
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 03, 2017, 10:42:00 AM
just wondering if this is done yet can not seen to find it as of 3.2.6542 was going to test it out  and give feed back .. thank you
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: redwing on December 03, 2017, 12:49:23 PM
It's already there in Customize panel dialog for Album & Tracks view.

It's Artwork view button> Group by> Sub Grouping
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 04, 2017, 04:17:15 AM
i  still can not  get this worked  out  i have some albums  done for testing using grouping  tag

with

Studio
Compilation
Live
and so on
 read Reply #6 (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=22674.msg133075#msg133075)  and still lost
get  stuck here "you can then use a custom sorting" where to do this?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: redwing on December 04, 2017, 04:31:38 AM
read Reply #6 (https://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=22674.msg133075#msg133075)  and still lost
get  stuck here "you can then use a custom sorting" where to do this?

You mean where to define custom sorting set? Look at the second picture that shows Sort by> "Define custom sorting" menu at the bottom.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 04, 2017, 06:56:44 AM
yes i see Define custom sorting"   but how to set this up coun't see how to name it or anything
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: redwing on December 04, 2017, 03:25:15 PM
yes i see Define custom sorting"   but how to set this up coun't see how to name it or anything

Just click on an empty box, then you can choose fields and its order that becomes its name.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 04, 2017, 03:35:49 PM
oh ok  thank you will try in the morning  
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 04, 2017, 11:03:57 PM
ok getting there  i have picked up a few strange things

i dont know if it's  a bug or if i'm doing something wrong  

have all Dave Edmunds albums grouping with Live : Compilation and so on that's great

but

seeing all Various Artists albums  that  have Dave Edmunds on them
if i click any of the   Various Artists albums  it just plays the full album
and not only the  Dave Edmunds tracks

1 or 2  would be fine  

1 is there a way not to show Various Artists albums
2 or only show tracks by the Artists  on  Various Artists albums (eg Dave Edmunds)

ps all the Various Artists albums are unknown grouping atm if that helps
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: redwing on December 04, 2017, 11:57:45 PM
Try artist for group by field and grouping for sub grouping field.
Then it will show only the artist's tracks in various artists albums.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 04:11:42 AM
ok i needed  to quit music bee  seems  to be working now  strange
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 04:16:14 AM
something is still not right .... more  testing
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 05:01:26 AM
ok if i use grouping tag   i get strange things happening

but if i use custom 1 name album type all works fine
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: redwing on December 05, 2017, 05:35:31 AM
I mentioned the grouping tag simply because you said you're testing with the tag. You could use any tag.
But I have no problem with grouping tag.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 06:36:17 AM
i would like to use grouping tag as it is a standard tag but can't work out what the problem is

 i wish musicbee had lots of video tutorials on how to get things done under the hood 
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 08:08:51 AM
its  only the  Various Artists albums iam having  problems with now

what should my custom sorting be ?

eg sorting set 1
i have
1 grouping
2 year (yyy)
3 album

i thinking artist may need to be in there somewhere

or i would be happy not to  see  Various Artists for now ..
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: redwing on December 05, 2017, 08:18:27 AM
What's your group by and sub grouping tag?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 09:48:15 AM
artist for group by field and grouping for sub grouping field.
still no joy
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 10:03:47 AM
i might try a new install for testing
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 02:05:33 PM
ok i made a new install   have not changed  any settings

and still having problems  with Various Artists albums


update
i got it to work  in new install
 so loaded old install and still had problems with Various Artists albums  being messed up

but then the Various Artists albums started working old install   ... have not worked out why

the test version is using new database  nothing from old version  not even same music path

i need to  work out  what's going on here

one thing i did notice in new install 
and it set to  album cover view and when  i did a search for Dave Edmunds it switch to tracks view so i set it back to  album cover view could that be something ?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
ok i quit musicbee and reload  now the Various Artists albums are messed up again

this bug is a cool one haha
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 08:00:54 PM
ok i think i've got something  
if i right click a Dave Edmunds track and go to search (right click menu) find artist Dave Edmunds
all works great

BUT if i use  the search  from search icon it find all the same albums but all the Various Artists  are messed up

hope this helps
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 08:15:40 PM
i will test a few more artist now and see if the same thing happens
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 08:43:51 PM
i think i  cracked it  from the search icon
always show the entire album was on

yes can confirm always show the entire album is the problem

just so you know with always show the entire album is on just did a search for abba and again

Various Artists albums are messed up
always show the entire album ( is not showing  the entire album they are messed up)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 05, 2017, 09:21:38 PM
here are the steps
1 set to album cover view
2 set group by "artist" set sub grouping  to "grouping" 
3 turn on always show the entire album form right click menu search icon
4 search for an artist from search icon eg Abba
5 now click a Various Artists album should see random tracks (not abba )
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on December 15, 2017, 11:01:42 AM
Occasionaly a sub-grouping header gets missed
(http://i.cubeupload.com/Bkx1m9.jpg)

I've tried to find some sort of pattern to the behaviour, to make a more useful bug post, but I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.
The only thing, if I change the grouping tag to another grouping, save the tag and refresh the page, the new sub-grouping shows.
If change the grouping back to the correct grouping, save and refresh, the tag is missing again.  And that's not confined to any single grouping tag.

The only consistent thing is that when it occurs, it's always the first grouping sub-header after the grouping header.
Maybe it's some sort of spacing issue for the panel?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 16, 2017, 05:50:06 AM
Occasionaly a sub-grouping header gets missed
(http://i.cubeupload.com/Bkx1m9.jpg)

I've tried to find some sort of pattern to the behaviour, to make a more useful bug post, but I can't find any rhyme or reason to it.
The only thing, if I change the grouping tag to another grouping, save the tag and refresh the page, the new sub-grouping shows.
If change the grouping back to the correct grouping, save and refresh, the tag is missing again.  And that's not confined to any single grouping tag.

The only consistent thing is that when it occurs, it's always the first grouping sub-header after the grouping header.
Maybe it's some sort of spacing issue for the panel?

i have   found the same thing   if i add a new  grouping  tag in 3.1 not updated in 3.2 will come back after more testing
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2017, 11:06:48 AM
Occasionaly a sub-grouping header gets missed
is this after a fresh start if MB or only after editing tags?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on December 16, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
is this after a fresh start if MB or only after editing tags?
after a fresh start, a restart or F5 refresh after editing tags
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2017, 02:01:15 PM
thats fixed for the next update. Its when the sub-grouping value is the same as the one from the previous grouping
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2017, 09:51:19 PM
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_2/MusicBee32_Patched.zip
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on December 17, 2017, 12:50:48 AM
Beautiful!  No missed sub-group headings.  Thank you  :)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Fontenele on December 21, 2017, 06:19:41 PM
Good afternoon,

Just passing to say thanks for this post and the tips given, with those, my mp3 collection is more organized now.
Music Bee is simply AWESOME!
Cheeers from Brazil

Fontenele
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Tjoeker on December 26, 2017, 07:22:40 PM
This looks like an awesome feature, but I'd like to use it in the views I use as well.
Would it be possible to create something like this? :)

(https://i.imgur.com/trYbprp.png)

Please ignore the repetition of albums, it's merely for showing purposes. :)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on December 26, 2017, 07:44:36 PM
This looks like an awesome feature, but I'd like to use it in the views I use as well.
Would it be possible to create something like this? :)

(https://i.imgur.com/trYbprp.png)

Please ignore the repetition of albums, it's merely for showing purposes. :)
+1
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Usaviator on October 22, 2019, 10:43:01 AM
I know I'm bringing back an old thread, but I have read through it twice, and I'm still missing something. It was helpful in that I was able to successfully create groupings of albums.  So I have Studio Releases, EPs and Singles, Compilations, Live Albums, Third Party and Bootlegs, Tribute albums.  I've figured out how to apply them and create album groups and have them displayed in the window. What I'm not getting is how to custom sort these groups.  It seems to only let me sort them by ascending or descending (according to name given to the grouping).  But I'd like to put the official studio releases first, then EPs and Singles, then Live Albums, and so on...  The way it is now only alphabetically organizes them.  I apologize I am very new to music bee and I'm feeling the brain burn from the steep learning curve.  I've looked elsewhere on forums, but this seemed to be the only thread addressing the problem I'm having.  I know it's a couple years old and maybe there's a new way around this?  I also tried sub grouping by "custom 1" and just using codes like G1, G2, G3 and so on, but when i put those custom codes in the fields, they display on the main window, and I figured there was a better way around this.  Ideally, I'd like it to always organize the groups by "studio releases" first and so on with the order I've already specified.  But I don't know if there's any way to take already entered fields and add them to a sort list so that it knows to organize all my albums in the same way.  Anyone got any ideas?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: boroda on October 22, 2019, 12:16:15 PM
try to use unicode zero-width (invisible) characters at the beginning of grouping tags for custom sorting.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Usaviator on October 22, 2019, 02:01:24 PM
try to use unicode zero-width (invisible) characters at the beginning of grouping tags for custom sorting.

So I've never heard of that before. I looked into it briefly and I'm not sure I understand how to do that. I saw that there are zero width spaces, but I haven't figured out how to insert them into normal text. I also don't see how inserting spaces will solve the issue.  But I'm probably missing something, because I know next to nothing about it.  And besides, if I can't see the characters, it's going to make it near impossible to keep track of how I sort through all my music.  If there is a mis-sorted item, it will be ridiculously hard to identify.  I was hoping that the program would have some sort of function to do this that I haven't figured out yet.  It seems like with all the sorting options it has, there would be a way to sort certain album groups in front of others.  If I mess around with the program long enough, I might stumble onto something, but just right now my head's spinning with how to make sense of how they've designed everything I was hoping maybe someone had figured it out.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: psychoadept on October 22, 2019, 02:01:58 PM
 I also tried sub grouping by "custom 1" and just using codes like G1, G2, G3 and so on, but when i put those custom codes in the fields, they display on the main window,

The way to do this is to put it in a custom sort order, and then sort by that. It depends on which view you're using, though, not all views support custom sorting.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: boroda on October 23, 2019, 08:31:51 AM
I saw that there are zero width spaces, but I haven't figured out how to insert them into normal text. I also don't see how inserting spaces will solve the issue.
they be always sorted after a-z letters. so just add several invisible chars at the beginning of tag to sorts it last. eg:

Studio Release
[zero-width space]EP
[zero-width space][zero-width space]Single
[zero-width space][zero-width space][zero-width space]Live Album
etc...
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: ChristoMorse on October 25, 2019, 08:47:32 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/assTDHt.jpg)

you can then use a custom sorting
(http://i.imgur.com/Cz6zVSU.jpg)



Bee-liever, I can see you have achieved something that I haven't been able to.

I see you use the year tag the same way as me, in the format 03/04/2016.
My albums doesn't get sorted correctly this way though.

But I see you have made a custom tag named "Release Sort Index".
Well, I haven't had any success creating a custom tag for that purpose.
I would appreciate any tips on how to do it.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on November 03, 2019, 08:00:48 AM
Bee-liever, I can see you have achieved something that I haven't been able to.

I see you use the year tag the same way as me, in the format 03/04/2016.
My albums doesn't get sorted correctly this way though.

But I see you have made a custom tag named "Release Sort Index".
Well, I haven't had any success creating a custom tag for that purpose.
I would appreciate any tips on how to do it.

Thanks!

"Release Sort Index" is the date in reverse order. 03/04/2016 becomes 20160403.
I find it especially useful with older releases where you can sometimes track down the month but not the day of a release.
You can only put a year into the year tag with that but with "Release Sort Index" I can also use the month. eg. 19420400.

One of these days I'm going to work out how I can enter the date in ISO 8601 format (YYYY-MM-DD) and get the Additional Tagging Tools plugin to automatically fill in both the "Year" and "Release Sort Index" tags!
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: The Incredible Boom Boom on November 06, 2019, 04:45:25 AM
Just a tip for anyone who reads this thread and uses the <Grouping> tag for other purposes, but still would like to have album types incorporated into their viewing settings, you can store different album types in separate Explorer folders and use $Contains(<Path>,Album Type) in a Virtual Tag to capture the information and display it however you'd like.

For sorting purposes, I have, for example, Chaka Khan's "Original Album Series" box set stored in J:\R&B\Chaka Khan\Box Set and code for my <Album Type> Virtual Tag is:
Quote
$If(<Genre>="Classical",,$RxReplace(<Path>,"^[\s\S]*?\\(EP|Studio|Instrumental|Holiday|Christmas|Preview|DMBlive|Compilation|Posthumous|Acoustic|Promo|Remix|NPG Music Club|Live|Box Set|Demo|Mixtape|Unreleased|Bootleg(\b|s)|Fan Club|Underground|Independent|Cover Series)[\s\S]*?$","$1"))


A little bit more effort than using the <Grouping> tag, however, for my purposes and OCD, if I can get away with not having to waste a Custom Tag, it's worth the little extra work. Obviously you should replace my album types with your own, just remember to separate each of them with the regex OR operator.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: ChristoMorse on November 06, 2019, 09:13:20 AM
Bee-liever, I can see you have achieved something that I haven't been able to.

I see you use the year tag the same way as me, in the format 03/04/2016.
My albums doesn't get sorted correctly this way though.

But I see you have made a custom tag named "Release Sort Index".
Well, I haven't had any success creating a custom tag for that purpose.
I would appreciate any tips on how to do it.

Thanks!

"Release Sort Index" is the date in reverse order. 03/04/2016 becomes 20160403.
I find it especially useful with older releases where you can sometimes track down the month but not the day of a release.
You can only put a year into the year tag with that but with "Release Sort Index" I can also use the month. eg. 19420400.

One of these days I'm going to work out how I can enter the date in ISO 8601 format (YYYY-MM-DD) and get the Additional Tagging Tools plugin to automatically fill in both the "Year" and "Release Sort Index" tags!
Thank you very much
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on November 09, 2019, 05:26:43 AM
@ Paul_Stone342
Sorry for not replying sooner, but sometimes there is just not enough hours in the day to get everything done!

As I said I use the in-built grouping tag, (so as not to waste a custom tag)
(http://i.imgur.com/assTDHt.jpg)

you can then use a custom sorting
(http://i.imgur.com/Cz6zVSU.jpg)

for me, this sorts as Albums; Albums [live]; EP's; Singles
(http://i.imgur.com/4o2d3Sm.jpg) (http://imgur.com/4o2d3Sm)

what it doesn't do is break them up into those groups with a nice sorting sub-header  :(
If your wish is about being able to do that as well,
then I certainly give it +1

I still don't get this.

If you have to specify the custom sort as "grouping" how do you specify the order of the group types entered under 'Gouping' in the tag panel like Boxset, LP etc if you can only set at as Grouping/Album... and not BoxSet/LP/Compilation etc?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: psychoadept on November 09, 2019, 07:27:29 AM
The groupings will be in alphabetical order. So if you want a specific order, set them like 1. Albums, 2. EPs, 3. Singles, etc
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on November 10, 2019, 09:16:21 AM
What is Yo's skin in the OP?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on November 12, 2019, 03:06:21 AM
I think it's Aurora
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Corliss Rain on November 17, 2019, 06:21:22 PM
First of all, thank you to the OP because I loved this idea and have started incorporating it into my library with a custom tag. Looking for advice on something, though. How would you label albums where the artist has re-recorded older material due to label and copyright disputes? Pondering "Re-Recordings" or "New Recordings", but neither one feels right to me. (Yes, I'm being a bit OCD.) Thoughts?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on January 05, 2020, 06:45:24 AM
Bee-liever, I can see you have achieved something that I haven't been able to.

I see you use the year tag the same way as me, in the format 03/04/2016.
My albums doesn't get sorted correctly this way though.

But I see you have made a custom tag named "Release Sort Index".
Well, I haven't had any success creating a custom tag for that purpose.
I would appreciate any tips on how to do it.

Thanks!

"Release Sort Index" is the date in reverse order. 03/04/2016 becomes 20160403.
I find it especially useful with older releases where you can sometimes track down the month but not the day of a release.
You can only put a year into the year tag with that but with "Release Sort Index" I can also use the month. eg. 19420400.

One of these days I'm going to work out how I can enter the date in ISO 8601 format (YYYY-MM-DD) and get the Additional Tagging Tools plugin to automatically fill in both the "Year" and "Release Sort Index" tags!

Can you sort tracks in Album Covers view by this?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on January 05, 2020, 08:53:32 PM
Certainly can.
I currently use Album Artist/ Group Sorting/ Release Sort Index
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on January 06, 2020, 06:46:26 AM
Certainly can.
I currently use Album Artist/ Group Sorting/ Release Sort Index

Do you set up realease sort index as a Custom Tag?

I don't see it in the Sorting Set drop-down menus
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on January 06, 2020, 07:20:56 AM
Certainly can.
I currently use Album Artist/ Group Sorting/ Release Sort Index

Do you set up realease sort index as a Custom Tag?

I don't see it in the Sorting Set drop-down menus

Yep, it's a custom tag.
Details in my reply to ChristoMorse you quoted earlier.

Bee-liever, I can see you have achieved something that I haven't been able to.

I see you use the year tag the same way as me, in the format 03/04/2016.
My albums doesn't get sorted correctly this way though.

But I see you have made a custom tag named "Release Sort Index".
Well, I haven't had any success creating a custom tag for that purpose.
I would appreciate any tips on how to do it.

Thanks!

"Release Sort Index" is the date in reverse order. 03/04/2016 becomes 20160403.
I find it especially useful with older releases where you can sometimes track down the month but not the day of a release.
You can only put a year into the year tag with that but with "Release Sort Index" I can also use the month. eg. 19420400.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on January 06, 2020, 09:24:12 AM
Do I set the custom tag as 'release time'?

or doesn't it matter?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on January 06, 2020, 10:05:57 AM
You can set it as 'release time', no problems  :)
It doesn't really matter what you call your custom tag, as long it's easy to remember what your putting in the tag and the name doesn't conflict with existing tags.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on January 07, 2020, 07:37:21 AM
can you add a final 2 numbers for track and have it sort all songs via that whole number within an album?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on January 08, 2020, 12:52:38 AM
can you add a final 2 numbers for track and have it sort all songs via that whole number within an album?
Not sure what you mean. Could you explain a bit more please.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on January 12, 2020, 11:20:07 AM
So in Ellingtonia (a duke ellington discography) each recording has an index number which has the date formatted the same way as release sort index.

Then it has 2 final digits denoting the track order of that recording date/session. ie YYYYMMDDRO (RO=Recording Order ie. 01,02,03...)

If I use the same method will it order correctly?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on January 12, 2020, 11:23:06 AM
Also, if we make groupings such as

1. Boxset
2. LP
3. Live
etc

If they're not quite alphabetical as with LP then Live is there a way to hide the ordering number in album covers view?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: psychoadept on January 12, 2020, 05:30:38 PM
You might be able to do something with a virtual tag that removes the numbers
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on January 13, 2020, 04:38:34 AM
So in Ellingtonia (a duke ellington discography) each recording has an index number which has the date formatted the same way as release sort index.

Then it has 2 final digits denoting the track order of that recording date/session. ie YYYYMMDDRO (RO=Recording Order ie. 01,02,03...)

If I use the same method will it order correctly?

You might have to split off those last 2 numbers into a virtual tag (as psychoadept has said) and then add them into your custom sorting set

(https://i.imgur.com/UjHHhAo.jpg)

Also, if we make groupings such as

1. Boxset
2. LP
3. Live
etc

If they're not quite alphabetical as with LP then Live is there a way to hide the ordering number in album covers view?

My grouping is non-alphabetical also:

G1; Album
G2; Live
G3; EP
G4; Single
etc

So I use a virtual tag (Release Group) to strip off the number:

(https://i.imgur.com/UvFyrW3.jpg)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Corliss Rain on January 14, 2020, 10:18:26 PM
Hi Bee-liever! I understand most of your virtual tag until it gets to the $IsNull command. Can you explain exactly what the Split commands do?



My grouping is non-alphabetical also:

G1; Album
G2; Live
G3; EP
G4; Single
etc

So I use a virtual tag (Release Group) to strip off the number:

(https://i.imgur.com/UvFyrW3.jpg)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on January 14, 2020, 11:55:47 PM
Hi Bee-liever! I understand most of your virtual tag until it gets to the $IsNull command. Can you explain exactly what the Split commands do?

My G6 group is for Various Artists Compilations.  The Split command is to break that up into sub-groupings so I can get this:
(http://i.imgur.com/VlgnTyS.jpg) (https://imgur.com/VlgnTyS)

I'll just assume you don't want to go that level!  :D
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Corliss Rain on January 15, 2020, 01:25:51 AM
Hi Bee-liever! I understand most of your virtual tag until it gets to the $IsNull command. Can you explain exactly what the Split commands do?

My G6 group is for Various Artists Compilations.  The Split command is to break that up into sub-groupings so I can get this:
(http://i.imgur.com/VlgnTyS.jpg) (https://imgur.com/VlgnTyS)

I'll just assume you don't want to go that level!  :D



Yes, yes I do. That's exactly my level of extreme!  ;D  :-*
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: wobbly on January 15, 2020, 04:58:18 AM
ok i need to do more work on this now
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 20, 2020, 11:42:22 AM
Hi Bee-liever! I understand most of your virtual tag until it gets to the $IsNull command. Can you explain exactly what the Split commands do?



My grouping is non-alphabetical also:

G1; Album
G2; Live
G3; EP
G4; Single
etc

So I use a virtual tag (Release Group) to strip off the number:

(https://i.imgur.com/UvFyrW3.jpg)

REPOST

(https://i.imgur.com/CK8lFox.jpg)

Whoops forgot to add my screenshot.. what am i missing here? Not trying to do the extra stuff- just groupings with hidden ordering numbers
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 20, 2020, 11:35:34 PM
what am i missing here? Not trying to do the extra stuff- just groupings with hidden ordering numbers

It's how you have the virtual tag constructed.  The $If statements have to be nested so MB will keep sorting through the tag until it finds a match.

Code
$If($First(<Grouping>)="G1","Boxset",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G2","Broadcast",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G3","LP",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G4","Live",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G5","Post Release",)))))
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 21, 2020, 06:50:34 AM
what am i missing here? Not trying to do the extra stuff- just groupings with hidden ordering numbers

It's how you have the virtual tag constructed.  The $If statements have to be nested so MB will keep sorting through the tag until it finds a match.

Code
$If($First(<Grouping>)="G1","Boxset",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G2","Broadcast",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G3","LP",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G4","Live",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G5","Post Release",)))))

Works except for LP and Live are ordered the wrong way- made sure to sort by virtual tag. Any Ideas why? Thanks in advance :)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2020, 09:10:08 AM
Works except for LP and Live are ordered the wrong way- made sure to sort by virtual tag. Any Ideas why? Thanks in advance :)

It's not 'wrong'. The purpose of this is so that you can decide an order for yourself. Just make LP and Live change places in your formulas if you want it different.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 21, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Works except for LP and Live are ordered the wrong way- made sure to sort by virtual tag. Any Ideas why? Thanks in advance :)

It's not 'wrong'. The purpose of this is so that you can decide an order for yourself. Just make LP and Live change places in your formulas if you want it different.

The G# is the ordering right? I have G3; as LP and G4; as Live but Live still sorts first like it's basing it off alphabetical sorting as Li comes before LP                                                                                                                                                                 
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2020, 01:14:17 PM
The G# is the ordering right? I have G3; as LP and G4; as Live but Live still sorts first like it's basing it off alphabetical sorting as Li comes before LP                                                                                                                                                                

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
Have you set 'Sub Grouping' to use the virtual tag?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 21, 2020, 02:37:59 PM
The G# is the ordering right? I have G3; as LP and G4; as Live but Live still sorts first like it's basing it off alphabetical sorting as Li comes before LP                                                                                                                                                                 

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
Have you set 'Sub Grouping' to use the virtual tag?

Tried but did not resolve issue.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2020, 04:34:25 PM
Tried but did not resolve issue.

I'm not sure why it doesn't work for you.

Group By should be something like Album Artist
Sort By should be Grouping
Sub Grouping should be the virtual tag

Maybe I am overlooking something.

Make sure you rescan the files you are using to test this and restart MusicBee?
Sometimes during heavy testing and changing tags, formula's etc. that's a good thing to do.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 22, 2020, 12:38:36 AM
Set your Sort By as  Album Artist/ Virtual Grouping/ Year

Set your Group By as Album Artist

Set your as Sub Grouping as Virtual Grouping
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 22, 2020, 03:55:32 AM
None of that works. sorting or grouping with album artist just splits box sets and albums up into a giant mess, and adding sub-grouping just doubles up the grouping names.

Are you sure my theory of a bug where the group numbering order is being overridden by the group names alphabetically ordering i.e
'Live' comes before 'LP' alphabetically 
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 22, 2020, 06:18:15 AM
None of that works. sorting or grouping with album artist just splits box sets and albums up into a giant mess, and adding sub-grouping just doubles up the grouping names.

So what would your normal 'Sort By' settings be?

Are you sure my theory of a bug where the group numbering order is being overridden by the group names alphabetically ordering i.e
'Live' comes before 'LP' alphabetically 

Not unless my Sorting/ Grouping settings bypass the bug  ;D
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2020, 08:41:55 AM
Set your Sort By as  Album Artist/ Virtual Grouping/ Year

I am pretty sure you need to use 'Grouping' in 'Sort By'.
Grouping is the tag that has (should have) the values in the required (non-alphabetical) order.


@johnmillsjr,

Are you sure the files you are testing this with are tagged correctly?
Do for example the different Live, LP albums have their own unique album name, and/or follow any other rules that define an 'album' in your setup?
Are you sure all 'Grouping' tags have the correct values?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 22, 2020, 10:46:14 AM
My current grouping settings are just a specific grouping to each album- nothing more complicated than that.

Right now when I sort by my virtual grouping tag and group by grouping, the order is correct but the 'G;#' shows in the headers

(https://i.imgur.com/GodviRL.jpg)

Note, I currently haven't set up any G2 albums, so when you see 1 then 3- don't think that's part of the issue

Virtual tag code:

Code
$If($First(<Grouping>)="G1",Boxset,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G2",Broadcast,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G3",LP,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G4",Live,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G5","Post Release",)))))
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 22, 2020, 11:53:18 AM
@ johnmillsjr
So what would your normal 'Sort By' settings be?
Forgetting about the virtual grouping for the moment, what would you normally set 'Sort By' to?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2020, 12:13:14 PM
when I sort by my virtual grouping tag and group by grouping,
You shouldn't group by grouping.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 22, 2020, 12:21:06 PM
@ johnmillsjr
So what would your normal 'Sort By' settings be?
Forgetting about the virtual grouping for the moment, what would you normally set 'Sort By' to?

Album I guess
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 22, 2020, 01:05:34 PM
Album I guess
I ask because back in REPLY #72 you were looking at setting up a custom sorting set.

If you are only using Album, then you need to set up a custom sorting set as Album/ Grouping

Set your Sort By as  that custom sorting

Sorting is always alphabetical; 1st selection to last
you end up with:
Album G1
Album G2
Album G3
etc

Then set your Group By as VirtualGrouping
The grouping provides the header for each group.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 22, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
Album I guess
I ask because back in REPLY #72 you were looking at setting up a custom sorting set.


Yeah, that's a work in progress, just trying to sort my albums for now
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 22, 2020, 01:32:14 PM
Album I guess
I ask because back in REPLY #72 you were looking at setting up a custom sorting set.

If you are only using Album, then you need to set up a custom sorting set as Album/ Grouping

Set your Sort By as  that custom sorting

Sorting is always alphabetical; 1st selection to last
you end up with:
Album G1
Album G2
Album G3
etc

Then set your Group By as VirtualGrouping
The grouping provides the header for each group.

Are you saying change my grouping names to

Boxset G1
Broadcast G2
LP G3.......
?

and then switch them around in the virtual Tag code??

$If($First(<Grouping>)="Boxset",G1 ??
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 22, 2020, 09:35:24 PM
Are you saying change my grouping names to

Boxset G1
Broadcast G2
LP G3.......

Heavens no!

What I'm saying is that you need to add the 'Grouping' tag into a custom sorting set. (panel where you set Sort By; third item from bottom; 'Define Custom Sorting...')

Whatever you use as your 'Sort By' has to have Grouping added to it, usually as the second item.

Your VirtualGrouping tag will always be your 'Group By' or 'Sub Grouping' selection.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 23, 2020, 06:40:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kG09vOM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fa3ksr5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/R342a6a.jpg)

Code
$If($First(<Grouping>)="G1",Boxset,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G2",Broadcast,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G3",LP,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G4",Live,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G5","Post Release",)))))

Still lists Live before LP
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 23, 2020, 07:21:38 AM
Still lists Live before LP
Yes, but I think I see why!
Would you please post a screenshot of the tags for a G4 "Live" album and a G3 "LP" album.
Fingers crossed, but that might confirm what I think is happening.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 23, 2020, 08:53:15 AM
Still lists Live before LP
You are grouping by virtual tag. The virtual tag outputs: LP and Live, and there are no 'magical' traces of G1, G2 left in that.
Live comes before LP in the alphabet.
Your sorting settings have no have effect on the main grouping itself.
Only on what's inside that grouping.

Sorting also will work for sub-grouping. (which you don't seem to be using)
Perhaps read the earlier suggestions again?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 23, 2020, 09:32:44 AM
Still lists Live before LP
Yes, but I think I see why!
Would you please post a screenshot of the tags for a G4 "Live" album and a G3 "LP" album.
Fingers crossed, but that might confirm what I think is happening.

(https://i.imgur.com/CAt1pF6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NskPOGY.jpg)

Still lists Live before LP
You are grouping by virtual tag. The virtual tag outputs: LP and Live, and there are no 'magical' traces of G1, G2 left in that.
Live comes before LP in the alphabet.
Your sorting settings have no have effect on the main grouping itself.
Only on what's inside that grouping.

Sorting also will work for sub-grouping. (which you don't seem to be using)
Perhaps read the earlier suggestions again?

Are you saying change my grouping names to

Boxset G1
Broadcast G2
LP G3.......

Your VirtualGrouping tag will always be your 'Group By' or 'Sub Grouping' selection.

That's what I thought Bee Liver said to do
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 23, 2020, 09:52:12 AM
Thanks johnmillsjr  :)
It's what I suspected.
Change the custom sorting from 'Album/ Grouping' to 'Grouping/ Album' and it should work correctly.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 23, 2020, 11:36:03 AM
Thanks johnmillsjr  :)
It's what I suspected.
Change the custom sorting from 'Album/ Grouping' to 'Grouping/ Album' and it should work correctly.

Still not ordering LP and Live correctly
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 24, 2020, 01:45:18 AM
Talk about having to jump through hoops  ::)

Worked out 'Group By' sorts on the value of the tag after any processing by virtual tag
'Sub Grouping' sorts on the value before  :-X

@johnmillsjr
Because you don't use Album Artist, had to do some major re-thinking on this!

You will need to create a virtual tag (NAA [No Album Artist] maybe?) with the formula
Code
" "

You can go back to just sorting by Album
Set your 'Group By' to the new virtual tag
Set 'Sub Grouping' to VirtualGrouping

If this doesn't work then I'm out of ideas :P
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 24, 2020, 05:03:35 AM
Talk about having to jump through hoops  ::)

Worked out 'Group By' sorts on the value of the tag after any processing by virtual tag
'Sub Grouping' sorts on the value before  :-X

@johnmillsjr
Because you don't use Album Artist, had to do some major re-thinking on this!

You will need to create a virtual tag (NAA [No Album Artist] maybe?) with the formula
Code
" "

You can go back to just sorting by Album
Set your 'Group By' to the new virtual tag
Set 'Sub Grouping' to VirtualGrouping

If this doesn't work then I'm out of ideas :P

It won't save " " as a virtual Tag
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 24, 2020, 07:48:01 AM
It won't save " " as a virtual Tag
It does save it.
MB just removes the quotes from around the space when it saves.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 24, 2020, 08:09:11 AM
SUCCESS

(https://i.imgur.com/Jnykb0b.jpg)

Thank you for all of your help. It's too bad we can't make the headers bigger. I'm going to make a wishlish post to see if Steven can make this all a but more simpler by adding better ordering support for groupings
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 24, 2020, 12:16:34 PM
'Sub Grouping' sorts on the value before  :-X

I don't understand.
Do you mean sub-grouping doesn't use or process the result of a virtual tag?
Could you explain this a bit more?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on March 24, 2020, 12:53:40 PM
SUCCESS

So good to see that little word!

'Sub Grouping' sorts on the value before  :-X

I don't understand.
Do you mean sub-grouping doesn't use or process the result of a virtual tag?
Could you explain this a bit more?

Using johnmillsjr's VirtualGrouping as an example
Code
$If($First(<Grouping>)="G1","Boxset",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G2","Broadcast",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G3","LP",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G4","Live",$If($First(<Grouping>)="G5","Post Release",)))))

'Group By' and 'Sub Grouping' both sort alphabetically.
'Group By' sorts and displays the processed value of the virtual tag:
Boxset
Broadcast
Live
LP
Post Release

'Sub Grouping' sorts by the original value of the tag and the displays the processed value:
sorts as
G1
G2
G3
G4
G5
and displays
Boxset
Broadcast
LP
Live
Post Release
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: hiccup on March 24, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
'Sub Grouping' sorts by the original value of the tag and the displays the processed value:

I don't think that is what is happening, and it also might qualify as a strange bug if that was the case.
The sorting order is most likely a result of having 'grouping' as a sorting factor somewhere.
Anyway, enough confusion for now, the one asking for help has the result he was looking for, so all's fine.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 27, 2020, 04:41:06 PM
SUCCESS

It's too bad we can't make the headers bigger. I'm going to make a wishlish post to see if Steven can make this all a but more simpler by adding better ordering support for groupings

(https://i.imgur.com/iaqKtuf.jpg)

Nevermind, I was doing it slightly wrong- Have it working at 100% as intended!
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on March 28, 2020, 07:07:56 AM
SUCCESS

It's too bad we can't make the headers bigger. I'm going to make a wishlish post to see if Steven can make this all a but more simpler by adding better ordering support for groupings

(https://i.imgur.com/iaqKtuf.jpg)

Nevermind, I was doing it slightly wrong- Have it working at 100% as intended!

Nevermind, I was tired and blind- Live and LP doesn't sort in right order, will revert back to your suggestion before and 'undelete' my wish list post
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on April 23, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
I finally fixed it.

How could I add a null value for albums with no grouping?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on April 24, 2020, 04:15:50 AM
I finally fixed it.

How could I add a null value for albums with no grouping?
What was your final solution?

What grouping formula are you now using?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on April 27, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
Before I answer that, I would like to ask another question, as I want to change something that may affect my answer:

My BoxSets grouping is mainly for 45s/78s etc under one album tag (to stop there being 2000 thumbnails!). Is it possible that I could break tracks with that Boxset Grouping (that I might rename to 45sand78s or something if this works!) up into Thumbnails based on their Albumartist tag- but only have the AlbumArtist tag (and another virtual tag I wanted to ask you about*) displayed below the thumbnails
in the same Album Covers View view-and then be able to delete the Album tag for those tracks all together

....but....for LPs (which have a LP grouping), use and only display the album and * tag under the thumbnail and not AlbumArtist

*I want to make a year-span tag based on the releasesortindex that contains the the earliest year followed by a dash followed by the last 2 digits of the latest year based on that thumbnail's tracks. Using a virtual tag would automate/auto update the yearspan when tracks are re-organised at any point

To summarize:

-I want to break my "Boxsets" grouping tracks into thumbnails based on Album Artist and delete their Album Tag
-I want to display a virtual tag dirived from releasesortindex with the yearspan of the Recordings of each albumartist as the first year and the 2 digits of the latest year 19##-##
-Display other groupings/ LP thumbnails with Album and yearspan
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on April 28, 2020, 02:05:10 AM
To summarize:

-I want to break my "Boxsets" grouping tracks into thumbnails based on Album Artist and delete their Album Tag
-I want to display a virtual tag dirived from releasesortindex with the yearspan of the Recordings of each albumartist as the first year and the 2 digits of the latest year 19##-##
-Display other groupings/ LP thumbnails with Album and yearspan

Yes, it should be possible (I think) but I would still need the answers to:
What was your final solution?

What grouping formula are you now using?
as a starting point to help you work forward from.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on April 28, 2020, 12:39:55 PM
Grouping Virtual Tag:
Code
$If($First(<Grouping>)="G1",Boxsets,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G2",Broadcasts,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G3",LPs,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G4",Performances,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G5","Post Releases",)))))

I changed Live to performances, I just was not able to make it order by the G1...G2 I think it's a bug honestly

Sort By Virtual Grouping/Album

Group By Virtual Grouping

For some reason it didn't need that No Album Artist tag anymore to stop it breaking up Albums (which I want to happen now- I meant before I had this idea) Not even gonna question it
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on April 29, 2020, 08:59:56 AM
*I want to make a year-span tag based on the releasesortindex that contains the the earliest year followed by a dash followed by the last 2 digits of the latest year based on that thumbnail's tracks. Using a virtual tag would automate/auto update the yearspan when tracks are re-organised at any point

What are your ideas for this tag?
Are you going to make a custom tag the same as my releasesortindex with the format YYYYMMDD?
Is the latest year to be sourced from that same tag or will it come from the <Year> tag?
Will the year-span tag change format to 19##-20## if the dates span the century change?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on April 29, 2020, 03:56:56 PM
yes to question 2 and 3

4. the release sort tag will be YYYYMMDDON (ON=ordering number/a 2  digit track number ie 01 02 03 etc). I also want to try make a virtual subheader tag made up of Album Artist, A tag with location + a few other things and a worded month date based on YYYYMMDD from the release sort index

Example

1930040801= April 8 1930 - Virtual Date tag would only have YYYYMMDD of the release sort index  (would like to have a comma after April 8 if I could work that in somehow)

For Circa dates I'm looking make the unknown month/day "00"

So if it detects "00" in in DD or MM (in most cases I'll know the Month and year- but would be good to set it up for both) of the release sort index tag- the worded month virtual tag displays "c."


Example:

19300400TN= c. April 1930

But If DD and MM both= 00 (which will be very rare) have something in place so it only shows "c." once and not "c. c. 1930"

But if I have 2 recording sessions that I know we're in chronological order with no other sessions in between year one after the other but don't know the exact days I could add a decimal

 
Example:

19300400.1ON equals "c. April"
19300400.2ON equals "c. April"

It will still order the the sessions chronologically.

Probably a better way, but this is what I have so far
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on April 30, 2020, 01:53:32 AM
-I want to break my "Boxsets" grouping tracks into thumbnails based on Album Artist and delete their Album Tag

I think this might be the killer.
It's Album Covers view your using so if you delete the Album tag, I'm not sure how MB will behave.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on April 30, 2020, 08:37:52 AM
I changed Group By to Virtual Grouping / Album Artist / Album

As Long as it has a grouping tag it works! I think as long as it has a grouping tag, it still is able to place a individual  thumbnail

(https://i.imgur.com/8jLYq6X.jpg)

I haven't tagged my album artists of the tracks in the box set Grouping (which is the only grouping I want this to apply to ), so I've had to test this on my live albums.

So I'll need to make the group by only apply to tracks with the 'Boxset' grouping

And can I keep the album tag displayed without albumartist displayed for albums without that grouping?

Perhaps a virtual tag along the lines if "$ifGROUPING contains "boxsets"=false Display ALBUM" so any albums with the Box sets grouping displays Album Artist in the virtual tag. But if it contains any other Grouping or "" it just displays the album name.

That way all my LPs and stuff will still show the album name and not albumartist below the thumbnail.

When you get a chance, could you also let me know your thoughts on the date stuff? :)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on May 28, 2020, 05:11:01 AM
'Sub Grouping' sorts by the original value of the tag and the displays the processed value:

I don't think that is what is happening, and it also might qualify as a strange bug if that was the case.
The sorting order is most likely a result of having 'grouping' as a sorting factor somewhere.
Anyway, enough confusion for now, the one asking for help has the result he was looking for, so all's fine.


Yeah I can't get this to sort Groupings by the numbering
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on May 28, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
Yeah I can't get this to sort Groupings by the numbering

I thought I covered this back in posts #106 and #111.
All fields sort on the actual value of the tag except when a virtual tag is used for sub-grouping in the Album Covers/Artwork view.
MB then uses the value of the tag before processing by the virtual tag formula for sorting.

This was done when Steven implemented the sub-grouping so the displayed headers did not have to be alphabetical.
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on May 29, 2020, 01:24:32 AM
Thanks johnmillsjr  :)
It's what I suspected.
Change the custom sorting from 'Album/ Grouping' to 'Grouping/ Album' and it should work correctly.

Still not ordering LP and Live correctly

I changed Live to performances, I just was not able to make it order by the G1...G2 I think it's a bug honestly

Sort By Virtual Grouping/Album

Group By Virtual Grouping

For some reason it didn't need that No Album Artist tag anymore to stop it breaking up Albums (which I want to happen now- I meant before I had this idea) Not even gonna question it
[/quote]

I Just tried making a virutal tag that grabs the G# and then tried to sort by that

Code
$Left(<Grouping>,2)

Didn't work either, does this work for you??? Because no matter what, the alphabetical order is constantly overriding the G#

Also, here's an updated version of my Grouping tag as I added a Grouping:

Code
$If($First(<Grouping>)="G1",Boxsets,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G2",Transcriptions,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G3",Broadcasts,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G4",LPs,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G5",Performances,$If($First(<Grouping>)="G6","Post Release",))))))

Surely this must be a bug
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: Bee-liever on May 29, 2020, 06:07:18 AM
Surely this must be a bug

No. The sorting with G1, G2 etc only works for the Sub-Grouping.

If you need it to work for Grouping, you would probably need to WishList a request for $SortAs(field,sorting) function in virtual tags
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on May 30, 2020, 01:20:12 AM
I saw that there are zero width spaces, but I haven't figured out how to insert them into normal text. I also don't see how inserting spaces will solve the issue.
they be always sorted after a-z letters. so just add several invisible chars at the beginning of tag to sorts it last. eg:

Studio Release
[zero-width space]EP
[zero-width space][zero-width space]Single
[zero-width space][zero-width space][zero-width space]Live Album
etc...

Doest this work? I've tried adding the text [zero-width space] to groupings and matching them in the virtual tag, is it a unicode symbol or something?
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: The Incredible Boom Boom on May 30, 2020, 02:21:53 AM
I saw that there are zero width spaces, but I haven't figured out how to insert them into normal text. I also don't see how inserting spaces will solve the issue.
they be always sorted after a-z letters. so just add several invisible chars at the beginning of tag to sorts it last. eg:

Studio Release
[zero-width space]EP
[zero-width space][zero-width space]Single
[zero-width space][zero-width space][zero-width space]Live Album
etc...

Doest this work? I've tried adding the text [zero-width space] to groupings and matching them in the virtual tag, is it a unicode symbol or something?

Copy from here (https://coolsymbol.com/zero-width-space-joiner-non-joiner-ltr-rtl-lrm-rlm-characters-symbols.html)
Title: Re: Album Types (LP's ; EP's ; Singles ; Compilations, etc.)
Post by: johnmillsjr on June 06, 2020, 03:09:58 AM
I saw that there are zero width spaces, but I haven't figured out how to insert them into normal text. I also don't see how inserting spaces will solve the issue.
they be always sorted after a-z letters. so just add several invisible chars at the beginning of tag to sorts it last. eg:

Studio Release
[zero-width space]EP
[zero-width space][zero-width space]Single
[zero-width space][zero-width space][zero-width space]Live Album
etc...

Doest this work? I've tried adding the text [zero-width space] to groupings and matching them in the virtual tag, is it a unicode symbol or something?

Copy from here (https://coolsymbol.com/zero-width-space-joiner-non-joiner-ltr-rtl-lrm-rlm-characters-symbols.html)

Thank you! can that be added/mentioned in OP?