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Support => Questions => Topic started by: ArthurDaniels on February 20, 2017, 02:13:53 PM

Title: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 20, 2017, 02:13:53 PM
I am a new Music Bee User.  Overall, I am impressed with Music Bee.  However, for Classical Music, I propose that a new Field needs to be added.  Most classical titles need both a Composition name and an individual track name.  Example:  Composition = Symphony # 09.  Tracks would have individual movement names - in this case, 4 movements.

I have an extensive classical library already created in a proprietary program called Musichi.  I have already imported all metadata into Music Bee.  But, I cannot import the Musichi Composition Field because there is no corresponding field in Music Bee.  I cannot figure out any way to import the Composition field into a Music Bee Custom field.

Comments and help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 20, 2017, 02:24:16 PM
Hi, welcome to the forum!

There's good news for you, because classical support had just been vastly enhanced, including work/movement fields.  I can't link you right now, but if you look around it's not to hard to find the latest 3.1 patch and the classical music thread (I believe it's in the wishlist section).
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 20, 2017, 04:42:15 PM
Hello Psychoadept,

Thanks for your quick and encouraging reply.  However, I have had no luck finding any reference to a 3.1 patch.  A 3.1 version is not listed in the Downloads section.  I looked in the Wishlist section of the forum, but I did not find any mention of a 3.1 patch, etc.

Perhaps, because I am new user and a new forum member, I just don't know my way around.

So, when you have time, I would appreciate further help.

Best,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: phred on February 20, 2017, 05:00:24 PM
See my sig for patches.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 20, 2017, 07:22:07 PM
And here's the classical music discussion thread: http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=20209.0

I think I need to copy your sig, phred!
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: phred on February 20, 2017, 07:46:28 PM
I think I need to copy your sig, phred!
Looks like you already did!
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 20, 2017, 08:10:49 PM
OK Guys,

Thanks - I have downloaded and installed the 3.1 Patch.  I see the new Movement and Work Fields.  I know how to add the Work Field to my Library.  But, I don't know how to import the data from the Composition field in my metadata files to the Work Field in my Music Bee database.

What is the process for getting the data from my Composition field to the new Work field?

Thanks,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 20, 2017, 08:50:05 PM
Would you please post a screenshot of your composition field in the tag inspector (opened from within the tag editor)?
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 20, 2017, 09:30:27 PM
I have a printscreen image, but I don't know how to post it in this forum.  Clicking Paste did not post the image.

Please advise.

Thanks,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 21, 2017, 01:29:35 AM
Upload the image to another host and use the image button (above the reply box) to link it.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 21, 2017, 03:27:29 AM
Ok - let's shift gears.

I have added the Custom1 field to my library structure.  I renamed the Custom1 field to Composition to match the field name in my existing database.

I then created a new library, expecting the creation process to find the Composition field name and pull in the data in the existing Composition field to the newly-named Composition field.  However, it did not work - no data appears in the Composition field in the new library.

So, please tell me how to bring data into the MusicBee library from the Composition field in my existing database.

I have over 23000 records in my existing database, so it is not practical for me to manually re-create that data in a MusicBee library.

Thanks for help.

Ar
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 21, 2017, 04:16:03 AM
I really need that screenshot of the field in the Tag Inspector in order to offer more advice.

http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Posting_Screenshots
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 21, 2017, 12:51:48 PM
I am still having difficulty posting a screen shot.  So, I will try to offer additional details in lieu of a screen shot.  My 23000 plus music files are stored in a database created within a program called MusiCHI.  Each record contains a number of different fields, including a field entitled "Composition".

I have created and deleted a number of Libraries in MusicBee.  Each time I have created a new MusicBee Library, the process has successfully accessed my MusiCHI database and pulled over all fields which match the named "standard" (Tag 1) fields in MusicBee.

So, I have a very usable MusicBee library - except for the fact that many of my MusiCHI entries do not contain the Composition name in the Title field.  Example:  A Beethoven symphony with 4 movements contains only the movement names in the Title field.  The symphony name is contained in the Composition field.  Therefore, when this data is pulled into the MusicBee Library, the movement names come over into the Title field.  But, the symphony name information is not captured because there is no Composition field in the MusicBee Tag 1 set of fields.

Now, in Patch 3.1, there is a new field called Work, but it is not useful in my case because I cannot rename the MusiCHI Composition field to Work and I cannot rename the MusicBee Work field to Composition.

Bottom line:  I can rename one of the MusicBee custom fields to Composition and I have done so before creating a new library.  However, MusicBee will not populate this custom field during the library creation process.

So, my simple question is:  How do I "auto-populate" a MusicBee custom field?  If it is not possible to "auto-populate" a MusicBee custom field during the Library creation process, then please just tell me that it cannot be done and I'll move on.

Thanks,

Art 
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 21, 2017, 02:10:31 PM
It should be possible to make your composition fired a custom tag, but what i need to know from the tag inspector is what the technical name of that field is.

Once the field is configured in MusicBee, then you can use the Additional tagging & reporting tools plugin to copy the values into the work field, if necessary.  This can be automated.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 21, 2017, 02:54:56 PM
Here is what I see when I look at a particular file in Tag Inspector.  There are three columns of information -- NAME; TAG CODE;  VALUE

Under NAME: COMPOSITION

Under TAG CODE: COMPOSITION

Under VALUE: In the Blue of the Evening

"In the Blue of the Evening" is the composition name as well as the Title Name in this particular example.

Here is a classical example:

NAME: COMPOSITION

TAG CODE: COMPOSITION

VALUE: Adam, Giselle

"Adam, Giselle" is the composer's name and the title of the composition, which I have previously entered into the MusiCHI database in the Composition Field.

This second example shows the need to capture this composition data in a separate field in MusicBee.

Thanks,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 21, 2017, 06:00:01 PM
Aha!  It's the tag code that I was interested in.

Have you configured the Composition tag in the top part of this window?

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/musicbee/images/0/03/Custom_Tag_Definition.png/revision/latest?cb=20130204155102)


If not, click on "Define New Tags" in Tags (1) Preferences, then put COMPOSITION as the identifier.  The rest should fill itself in.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: vincent kars on February 21, 2017, 07:52:21 PM
Maybe this page in my website is of use:
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MusicBee/MusicBee_CustomTag.htm

BTW, you don't have to rebuild the library
Select the tracks, right click > Send > File rescan

A very convenient option when testing if your tags are read by MusicBee.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 21, 2017, 09:40:51 PM
Hello Psychadept & Vincent Kars,

Thanks to both of you.  I now have my MusicBee Library configured to display the Composition Field and I have pulled in the Composition data from my MusiCHI database for all 23000+ records.

Vincent, I followed your tutorial on your webpage.  I mostly understood what I was doing, but, since I don't yet have a solid grasp of the MusicBee architecture, I did not fully understand why I was taking the steps needed.  I will also be reviewing other computer audio information on your website.

Psychadept, You have been patient with my persistence and have helped me achieve success.

I am now happily listening to some of my favorite tracks for the purpose of comparing the sound quality of the MusicBee player with the MusiCHI player.  My system is constituted as follows for music reproduction:

The MusicBee program resides in a dedicated Toshiba Laptop, running Windows 10 Professional (upgraded from the native Windows 7 Professional which came pre-installed on the computer).  My music files are stored on an external 3 TB Seagate HD and are backed up on a second identical Seagate HD.  The USB output from my laptop is connected to a Peachtree Audio DACx iT DAC.  The DAC L/R audio outputs are connected to a Cambridge Audio Azur 855 Integrated Amplifier.  The Cambridge Speaker A outputs are connected to a pair of Golden Ear Triton One Front Speakers and the Speaker B outputs are connected to a pair of Golden Ear Triton Seven speakers, sitting in the rear of the room.  The Cambridge Tape Output is connected to a Paradigm DSP 3400 sub and to a Klipsch SW 12 Sub.

Other speakers and an Onkyo NR 3009 9.2 channel AV Receiver are used for movies.

I am interested in learning more about MusicBee and, in particular, learning about how MusicBee performs for me as a player.  Comments are welcome.

Again, thanks for your help,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: vincent kars on February 21, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
Another one of those very rare MusiCHI users!

I do think the MusiCHI Tagger/Cleaner the best there is for tagging classical.
I do prefer MusicBee for playback most of all because of the interface.

Anyway, you might try using WASAPI in both cases.
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MusicBee/MusicBee_audio.htm
IMHO a slight improvement in transparency compared with Direct Sound,.

BTW: both use the BASS lib for audio. Don’t be surprised if you don’t hear differences  :)
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 21, 2017, 11:01:45 PM
Glad you've made progress!  If you're now interested in the work field, you'll need the Additional tagging and reporting tools plugin, which will let you easily copy from one field to another, en masse
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 23, 2017, 01:47:57 PM
Now that I have added the Composition field to MusicBee, I do not need to add the Work field.  Using the Composition field is simpler because the name matches my existing database file name structure.

for what it might be worth:  If the name "Composition" is more widely used than the name "Work", then the MusicBee development group might consider renaming the "Work" field to "Composition".
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: Bee-liever on February 23, 2017, 10:28:23 PM
for what it might be worth:  If the name "Composition" is more widely used than the name "Work", then the MusicBee development group might consider renaming the "Work" field to "Composition".

The sole developer of MusicBee, Steven, has gone with "Work" in line with hydrogenaudio, Picard (MusicBrainz), iTunes, JRiver et al.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 24, 2017, 03:03:20 AM
Quote: "The sole developer of MusicBee, Steven, has gone with "Work" in line with hydrogenaudio, Picard (MusicBrainz), iTunes, JRiver etal."

"Work(s)" for me.

Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: Bee-liever on February 24, 2017, 07:25:19 AM
I do like a nice bit of witticism!
 :D  ;D  :) ::)
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: hiccup on February 24, 2017, 09:13:08 AM
for what it might be worth:  If the name "Composition" is more widely used than the name "Work", then the MusicBee development group might consider renaming the "Work" field to "Composition".

What makes this a bit complicated, is that there are no wordings that can be considered to be 'correct' and will apply to all situations.
For example 'Movement' is not used for Opera, 'Acts' not for Concerto's, and 'Work' and 'Composition' are of course very ambiguous terms.

Note that if you want to fine-tune all this, you could put in some work in composing your own schemes in MusicBee.
You can e.g. rename headers, so that 'Work' will display 'Composition', or you could create your own virtual tags, with formulas that make use of available genre or grouping tags to decide what to display exactly.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 24, 2017, 10:07:14 PM
Guys,

As I reported above, I followed your instructions to successfully add the Composition custom field.  Now, I want to add a second custom field.  This second field is named "Period or Style" in my database.

I have repeated the steps and successfully added "Period or Style" as the Custom 2 field.  I have re-scanned all files, but I cannot get MusicBee to populate this new field.  I have double-checked the name.  I have repeated the re-scan.  The field appears in my MusicBee library, but all records are missing.

Is there possibly an issue with the structure of the name because it is three words?

Other suggestions?

Thanks,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: Bee-liever on February 24, 2017, 11:09:03 PM
I know you had trouble posting screenshots before, but reallly need to see how "Period or Style" is saved in the tag inspector.

You just need to upload the .jpg image to any file sharing site (imgur, cubeupload, etc) and put the link in your post with this button:
(http://i.imgur.com/4GiGwes.jpg)
(if you hover your cursor over the actual post you will see "Quote", click it and you will see the code used for this)
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 25, 2017, 02:34:55 AM
This is where it get's interesting.  Unlike Composition, which appears in the main screen in Tag Inspector, under Tags, Period or Style does not appear in Tags in Tag Inspector.  Period or Style does appear in Tags 2 in Tag Inspector, along with Composition.

Period or Style appears in Preferences under Tags 1.  I have properly configured the field, just as I did when I added Composition.  In other words, Period or Style appears exactly like Composition in the file structure.

I cannot change the Period or Style name in the original database.  Are multiple words a problem in MusicBee in the field name structure?

I will attempt a screenshot post, but I have already described exactly what is visible when looking at Tag Inspector.

Please tell me what, if any, limitations apply to working with field names.

Thanks,

Art
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: Bee-liever on February 25, 2017, 03:22:14 AM
Please tell me what, if any, limitations apply to working with field names.
There isn't any real limitations except you need to match what tag MusiCHI is saving 'Period or Style' to exactly with what you want MB to use.
The "name" or "identifier" doesn't mean a thing, it's the "Tag Code" that's needed.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ozpomfromhell on February 25, 2017, 03:24:30 AM
"Anyway, you might try using WASAPI in both cases.
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MusicBee/MusicBee_audio.htm
IMHO a slight improvement in transparency compared with Direct Sound"

I made that change and heard a small but clear improvement.
Simple to do (the click of a mouse) and thus worthwhile.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: psychoadept on February 25, 2017, 04:55:45 AM
This is where it get's interesting.  Unlike Composition, which appears in the main screen in Tag Inspector, under Tags, Period or Style does not appear in Tags in Tag Inspector.  Period or Style does appear in Tags 2 in Tag Inspector, along with Composition.

Period or Style appears in Preferences under Tags 1.  I have properly configured the field, just as I did when I added Composition.  In other words, Period or Style appears exactly like Composition in the file structure.

If you're looking at Tags (1) and (2) you're still in the Tag Editor, not the tag inspector.  Tag Inspector is the one with the three columns.
Title: Re: Need to add Composition Field for Classical Music
Post by: ArthurDaniels on February 25, 2017, 12:57:17 PM
Late last night, I achieved a breakthrough.  The file name in the original data base was different from what I had originally reported.  After repeating the creation process, using the correct database file name, all is working properly.

My original database was created, using MusiCHI software.  MusiCHI was developed in Europe and the developer had used a word which is probably French as the name for that field, but had translated the word into "Period or Style" for the display name.  I finally realized what was going on and used the original word in the MusicBee creation process.

Success!

Sorry for the flurry of emails.  But, as always, thanks for the help.

Art