getmusicbee.com

General => General Discussions => Topic started by: AvikB on November 21, 2015, 12:50:52 AM

Title: [WEBSITE v2] MusicBee website and forum redesign
Post by: AvikB on November 21, 2015, 12:50:52 AM
Website & Forum Design is complete for v1.
Finally, after couple of months in creating and testing the site and improving with the help of the community the website is finished and launched.

This is a complete rewrite and built from the ground up(except for the Forum) to meet the latest web standards. The site is designed with HTML5, SCSS, PHP, MYSQL, JS(+JQuery) and supports all the latest browsers including mobile devices.

Currently the website is now at version 1.x, and there won't be any completely new feature implementation at this point, only bug fixes and optimization.


So what now?
I still have few more features that i wanted to implement, all of those will be made available for the next major website release. Which should be couple months from now on (no promises though ;) ).



Github: https://github.com/Avik-B/musicbee-website/ (https://github.com/Avik-B/musicbee-website/)
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: Alumni on November 21, 2015, 02:47:35 AM
This demo looks rather nice, very simple but in a good way.
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: AvikB on November 21, 2015, 03:44:23 AM
Added Tagging Tool info on the page, also little bit polished now. should look good :)
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: AvikB on November 21, 2015, 03:46:51 AM
This demo looks rather nice, very simple but in a good way.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: boroda on November 21, 2015, 07:24:15 AM
looks cool!
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: Iasc on November 21, 2015, 08:28:00 AM
looks good.
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: AvikB on November 21, 2015, 10:29:10 AM
Thanks Guys. Any feedback would be welcome. :)
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: Steven on November 21, 2015, 02:02:17 PM
i like this a lot more than the current home page. It has the right balance of showing relevant information in a visually attractive way. It may not even need a features page.
I do have some concerns if it was to be taken further. The people who helped out with the current site design are no longer active on the forums and i dont have the time or skills to do any PHP scripting to integrate the forum into that look. So someone with those skills would need to help out.
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: AvikB on November 21, 2015, 02:12:15 PM
I can do HTML and CSS3 part, also i do have PHP knowledge, i don't think it will be THAT hard :S

I can help if you want. OFC, i have to look at some of the code on the home page.

As for feature page, i agree, but i can make a nice looking feature page if needed :)
Title: Re: MusicBee website design update
Post by: AvikB on November 22, 2015, 12:23:19 AM
i like this a lot more than the current home page. It has the right balance of showing relevant information in a visually attractive way. It may not even need a features page.
I do have some concerns if it was to be taken further. The people who helped out with the current site design are no longer active on the forums and i dont have the time or skills to do any PHP scripting to integrate the forum into that look. So someone with those skills would need to help out.

Well check the original, post i have updated with the new forum look! it is a THEME so no modification is required to any files of the forum.
also the theme is fully functional. i can send you the theme files if interested.
Title: Re: MusicBee website design and forum update Concept
Post by: Bee-liever on November 22, 2015, 12:37:13 AM
Very, very nice.
Title: Re: MusicBee website design and forum update Concept
Post by: Steven on November 22, 2015, 11:51:23 AM
well i think it all looks great.
I already have http://test.getmusicbee.com/ available as a testing site so i could grant ftp access to it for anyone willing to participate in creating a new website version.
However i still feel a bit nervous about the forum only because i know the current one had various bits of standard smf code modified. So having someone who knows what they are doing with the PHP code would be helpful.
Perhaps it will be possible to have a fully functioning forum that points to the current forum database with the new look?
Title: Re: MusicBee website design and forum update Concept
Post by: AvikB on November 22, 2015, 01:18:02 PM
well i think it all looks great.
I already have http://test.getmusicbee.com/ available as a testing site so i could grant ftp access to it for anyone willing to participate in creating a new website version.
However i still feel a bit nervous about the forum only because i know the current one had various bits of standard smf code modified. So having someone who knows what they are doing with the PHP code would be helpful.
Perhaps it will be possible to have a fully functioning forum that points to the current forum database with the new look?

Well i actually created a SMF theme, i rewrite the style stuff and some new theme file for most of the things, also modified PHP on a lots of the things. I would say, i have completed about 80% of the theme. i am testing it on a real Simple Mechine Forum (version 1.1.21) on my localhost, so far no problem found.

i highly doubt the previous dev had to modify any REAL FORUM FILE, unless ofc any mod is used (but so far, i don't think there is any extra mod is used on this forum :/)

can you PM me the ftp details?
also you might wanna create a sub directory in there like (http://test.getmusicbee.com/forum), and upload a SMF version 1.1.21, and a dummy database, i think when the test is complete we can safely just move the main page in the main domain and ONLY change the theme file of the current forum.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 22, 2015, 08:15:21 PM
I have uploaded the site to the test server, here is the link:

http://test.getmusicbee.com (http://test.getmusicbee.com/)

a new download page is added instead of the old one.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: Steven on November 22, 2015, 09:11:29 PM
my opinion is the fonts need to be a bit stronger or somehow more interesting - at least fior the Home/ Download/ ... links and the main MusicBee header. I cant see the forum mockup you did at the moment but i thought those fonts looked good.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 22, 2015, 09:53:56 PM
my opinion is the fonts need to be a bit stronger or somehow more interesting - at least fior the Home/ Download/ ... links and the main MusicBee header. I cant see the forum mockup you did at the moment but i thought those fonts looked good.


yeah i removed those earlier screenshots of the forum, here is the new forum screenshot.

http://i.imgur.com/c1Mo0Gh.png (http://i.imgur.com/c1Mo0Gh.png?1)
i stll haven't done much of the menubar, i am actually thinking about integrating the forum notifications(specially for messages and new replies) in the menu (only when user is logged in).

i will work on it when i am done with all of the pages first.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: Bee-liever on November 22, 2015, 09:57:23 PM
A few minor spelling and grammatical errors (with a few suggestions  :)  ):

Get MusicBee, It is free! checkout the features below or Download Now
Get MusicBee. It's free! Checkout the features below or Download Now

Play your music the way that you want. Turn your computer into a music jukebox Or, use auo tagging to cleanup your messy music library. Get the most out of your speakers with tools for those who sound quality matters
Play your music the way that you want. Turn your computer into a music jukebox or, use auto tagging to clean-up your messy music library. Get the most out of your speakers with tools for those whom sound quality matters.

MusicBee also support Groove Music(formerly XBOX Music), now you can explore your favourite artists and albums
MusicBee also supports Groove Music (formerly XBOX Music), now you can explore your favourite artists and albums.

Choose a skin for MusicBee and make it look the way you want. Check our WIKI or FORUM for more skin made by the community.
You can also make your own skin and share it with others.
Choose a skin for MusicBee and make it look the way you want. Check our WIKI or FORUM for more skins made by the community.
You can also make your own skin and share it with others.


Edit/View all tags with the extensive tag editor and the tag inspector. Manage duplicates, custom tags, Automatically organise library file names and structure, get song tags from online sources .... and a lot
Edit/View all tags with the extensive tag editor and the tag inspector. Manage duplicates, custom tags, Automatically organise library file names and structure, get song tags from online sources .... and a lot more.

And a whole lot more...
plus a whole lot more...

As XP is no longer an officially supported Microsoft platform, I would also suggest changing this one as well:
 latest release Here
for Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
latest release Here
for Windows Vista/7/8/10
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 22, 2015, 10:24:56 PM
A few minor spelling and grammatical errors (with a few suggestions  :)  ):

Get MusicBee, It is free! checkout the features below or Download Now
Get MusicBee. It's free! Checkout the features below or Download Now

Play your music the way that you want. Turn your computer into a music jukebox Or, use auo tagging to cleanup your messy music library. Get the most out of your speakers with tools for those who sound quality matters
Play your music the way that you want. Turn your computer into a music jukebox or, use auto tagging to clean-up your messy music library. Get the most out of your speakers with tools for those whom sound quality matters.

MusicBee also support Groove Music(formerly XBOX Music), now you can explore your favourite artists and albums
MusicBee also supports Groove Music (formerly XBOX Music), now you can explore your favourite artists and albums.

Choose a skin for MusicBee and make it look the way you want. Check our WIKI or FORUM for more skin made by the community.
You can also make your own skin and share it with others.
Choose a skin for MusicBee and make it look the way you want. Check our WIKI or FORUM for more skins made by the community.
You can also make your own skin and share it with others.


Edit/View all tags with the extensive tag editor and the tag inspector. Manage duplicates, custom tags, Automatically organise library file names and structure, get song tags from online sources .... and a lot
Edit/View all tags with the extensive tag editor and the tag inspector. Manage duplicates, custom tags, Automatically organise library file names and structure, get song tags from online sources .... and a lot more.

And a whole lot more...
plus a whole lot more...

As XP is no longer an officially supported Microsoft platform, I would also suggest changing this one as well:
 latest release Here
for Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
latest release Here
for Windows Vista/7/8/10


Thanks really appreciate :) my english is crappy :|

UPDATED: just updated with the suggested mistake correction
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: phred on November 22, 2015, 10:51:21 PM
"November" has a typo on the downloads page "Novmeber"

I think both versions should be closer together.  In your mockup I feel there's too much separation.  And the release notes are for -both- versions.  The way the mockup looks, it appears that the release notes are only for the portable version.

As XP is no longer an officially supported Microsoft platform, I would also suggest changing this one as well:
 latest release Here
for Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
latest release Here
for Windows Vista/7/8/10

I disagree with this.  Yes, XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, but MB certainly works just fine with XP.  And potential users should be aware that it will indeed work with XP.

In the "Sync with Devices" blurb on the home page, I'm not so sure "iOS" should be mentioned.  I guess that should really be Steven's call.  But if I were looking for a new music manager/player and saw that sentence, I would expect it to work natively.  As it stands now, only old iPods work directly with MB and -some- of the newer ones -may- work with the iPod/iPhone driver plugin.  I think including iOS will open up a can of worms.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: Bee-liever on November 22, 2015, 10:52:56 PM
Oops. I missed a couple  :-[

Checkout the features below or Download Now >> Check out the features below or Download Now

WIKI or FORUM for more skin made >> WIKI or FORUM for more skins made

There are tons of feature in MusicBee, checkout  >> There are tons of features in MusicBee, check out
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 23, 2015, 12:49:23 AM
"November" has a typo on the downloads page "Novmeber"
Thanks, though i am actually working on a admin control center that will automate the process (no manual html editing! yay!).

I think both versions should be closer together.  In your mockup I feel there's too much separation.  And the release notes are for -both- versions.  The way the mockup looks, it appears that the release notes are only for the portable version.
ypu mean the blue background for the installer download and dark grey for the portable? yeah i noticed it too..... can't settle with the color :/
i actually wen't with grey because portable installer isn't widely use(not sure :/), so the top one would appeal more by creating a separation.

As XP is no longer an officially supported Microsoft platform, I would also suggest changing this one as well:
 latest release Here
for Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
latest release Here
for Windows Vista/7/8/10

I disagree with this.  Yes, XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, but MB certainly works just fine with XP.  And potential users should be aware that it will indeed work with XP.
What happens when a XP related problem(maybe taskbar issue or icon displaying issue) is posted in the forum, does Steven work to fix them? If the dev actually support it i will put it back, even chrome has ended xp support.... can't be too sure...

In the "Sync with Devices" blurb on the home page, I'm not so sure "iOS" should be mentioned.  I guess that should really be Steven's call.  But if I were looking for a new music manager/player and saw that sentence, I would expect it to work natively.  As it stands now, only old iPods work directly with MB and -some- of the newer ones -may- work with the iPod/iPhone driver plugin.  I think including iOS will open up a can of worms.
Damn Apple, i thought it works with ios  ??? ,never tried it.
So Should i remove IOS or just mention the IOS version number that it work with.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: phred on November 23, 2015, 01:18:38 AM
I think both versions should be closer together.  In your mockup I feel there's too much separation.  And the release notes are for -both- versions.  The way the mockup looks, it appears that the release notes are only for the portable version.

ypu mean the blue background for the installer download and dark grey for the portable? yeah i noticed it too..... can't settle with the color :/
i actually wen't with grey because portable installer isn't widely use(not sure :/), so the top one would appeal more by creating a separation.
Yes, that's the section I'm referring to.  And II think a lot of folks uses the portable version, but I have no numbers to back that up.

As XP is no longer an officially supported Microsoft platform, I would also suggest changing this one as well:
 latest release Here
for Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
latest release Here
for Windows Vista/7/8/10

I disagree with this.  Yes, XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, but MB certainly works just fine with XP.  And potential users should be aware that it will indeed work with XP.
What happens when a XP related problem(maybe taskbar issue or icon displaying issue) is posted in the forum, does Steven work to fix them? If the dev actually support it i will put it back, even chrome has ended xp support.... can't be too sure...
I think this is a decision for Steven.

In the "Sync with Devices" blurb on the home page, I'm not so sure "iOS" should be mentioned.  I guess that should really be Steven's call.  But if I were looking for a new music manager/player and saw that sentence, I would expect it to work natively.  As it stands now, only old iPods work directly with MB and -some- of the newer ones -may- work with the iPod/iPhone driver plugin.  I think including iOS will open up a can of worms.
Damn Apple, i thought it works with ios  ??? ,never tried it.
So Should i remove IOS or just mention the IOS version number that it work with.
Again, another one for Steven to decide.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 23, 2015, 02:21:17 AM
I think both versions should be closer together.  In your mockup I feel there's too much separation.  And the release notes are for -both- versions.  The way the mockup looks, it appears that the release notes are only for the portable version.

ypu mean the blue background for the installer download and dark grey for the portable? yeah i noticed it too..... can't settle with the color :/
i actually wen't with grey because portable installer isn't widely use(not sure :/), so the top one would appeal more by creating a separation.
Yes, that's the section I'm referring to.  And II think a lot of folks uses the portable version, but I have no numbers to back that up.

As XP is no longer an officially supported Microsoft platform, I would also suggest changing this one as well:
 latest release Here
for Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
latest release Here
for Windows Vista/7/8/10

I disagree with this.  Yes, XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, but MB certainly works just fine with XP.  And potential users should be aware that it will indeed work with XP.
What happens when a XP related problem(maybe taskbar issue or icon displaying issue) is posted in the forum, does Steven work to fix them? If the dev actually support it i will put it back, even chrome has ended xp support.... can't be too sure...
I think this is a decision for Steven.

In the "Sync with Devices" blurb on the home page, I'm not so sure "iOS" should be mentioned.  I guess that should really be Steven's call.  But if I were looking for a new music manager/player and saw that sentence, I would expect it to work natively.  As it stands now, only old iPods work directly with MB and -some- of the newer ones -may- work with the iPod/iPhone driver plugin.  I think including iOS will open up a can of worms.
Damn Apple, i thought it works with ios  ??? ,never tried it.
So Should i remove IOS or just mention the IOS version number that it work with.
Again, another one for Steven to decide.

well Steven is busy right now :/

UPDATE: i have updated the download page color choices, it should look more consistent now.

ALSO THE BIGGEST CHANGE IS:
automated update info through a control panel, well control panel is not there yet only the blackened structure is there.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: Bee-liever on November 23, 2015, 03:08:15 AM
can you suggest me some good color?
Maybe you could rearrange it slightly?

with existing blue (#0076DB) background:
Download MusicBee

We hope you'll enjoy your music experience with MusicBee!  

Version: 2.5.5804                                                                                                   with the picture over here
Released on 22 November 2015
Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
View the release notes

with blue/grey (#2B6698) background:
MusicBee
Standard version for your desktop, laptop or tablet
 Start Download Mirror 1 Mirror 2

with existing grey (#565656) background:
Portable MusicBee
Put MusicBee on your flash drive and take your music collection wherever you go.
Get Portable version

EDIT:
or simply use the colours you changed it to while I was originally typing this  :)
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: phred on November 23, 2015, 03:40:00 AM
well Steven is busy right now :/
Yes, he certainly is.  But it's his product and while I feel fine -suggesting- changes, the final decision should be his.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 23, 2015, 03:43:33 AM
can you suggest me some good color?
Maybe you could rearrange it slightly?

with existing blue (#0076DB) background:
Download MusicBee

We hope you'll enjoy your music experience with MusicBee!  

Version: 2.5.5804                                                                                                   with the picture over here
Released on 22 November 2015
Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10
View the release notes

with blue/grey (#2B6698) background:
MusicBee
Standard version for your desktop, laptop or tablet
 Start Download Mirror 1 Mirror 2

with existing grey (#565656) background:
Portable MusicBee
Put MusicBee on your flash drive and take your music collection wherever you go.
Get Portable version

EDIT:
or simply use the colours you changed it to while I was originally typing this  :)

Nice suggestion! i am gonna do something like that. :)
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: hiccup on November 23, 2015, 08:26:42 AM
Great work AvikB!

One of the things I like is the footer you designed.
Would it be an option to have that footer in view always? So it is not necessary to scroll all the way down to see it?

and,
I hate to bring in 'a negative', especially since I do like the look and feel of the image and the colors, but I have an allergy (with doctors prescription) for the 'hand heart'.
Are alternative images being considered?
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 23, 2015, 10:34:15 AM
Great work AvikB!

One of the things I like is the footer you designed.
Would it be an option to have that footer in view always? So it is not necessary to scroll all the way down to see it?
why do you wan't the footer in the view? any specific reason?
and no, i don't think it is possible for the footer to be always visible, not without compromising the look and feel. i don't see a reason of the footer being always visible.

and,
I hate to bring in 'a negative', especially since I do like the look and feel of the image and the colors, but I have an allergy (with doctors prescription) for the 'hand heart'.
Are alternative images being considered?
If BETTER alternatives are provided i will be happy to change them.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: hiccup on November 23, 2015, 11:29:32 AM
why do you wan't the footer in the view? any specific reason?
and no, i don't think it is possible for the footer to be always visible, not without compromising the look and feel. i don't see a reason of the footer being always visible.

The reason is that I feel that the main objective of a website should be to give relevant information as good and accessible as possible.
The information and the links that are in your footer are in my opinion quite essential for having this website in the first place, and I think it should not be 'hidden' somewhere at the bottom where you are forced to scroll down to find it.

Therefore in my opinion either the footer should be sticky, or the info in the footer should be more suited for a typical footer. Such as acknowledgements, legal info, contact info etc.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: Skoop on November 23, 2015, 03:30:26 PM
"Get Latest Patch" should point to an actual live link, instead of the Download forum which isn't maintained fully current.

I know that I can look for phred's sig to find it,  but others won't know that.  I've always been a little chagrined that it's not really apparent what is the current patched version.  Fixes on the fly should be captured somewhere and made obvious. A site redesign is a good opportunity to do that.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: phred on November 23, 2015, 04:01:39 PM
"Get Latest Patch" should point to an actual live link, instead of the Download forum which isn't maintained fully current.

I know that I can look for phred's sig to find it,  but others won't know that.  I've always been a little chagrined that it's not really apparent what is the current patched version.  Fixes on the fly should be captured somewhere and made obvious. A site redesign is a good opportunity to do that.
Good point.
Perhaps the 'latest patch' should be linked to this: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Latest_Update
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 23, 2015, 04:47:43 PM
Quote
Therefore in my opinion either the footer should be sticky, or the info in the footer should be more suited for a typical footer. Such as acknowledgements, legal info, contact info etc.
Quote
I also think that the footer should be always visible, the copyright part div to be exact (it would take too much space to include the upper part of the footer), but it's not a must. The header on the other hand should be always visible for a quick horizontal menu access.

Thanks for the input, i am actually thinking about creating the top menu like:
Home
Download
Customization
Forum
Help

the Customization will have drop-down menu on mouse hover like:
Customization
              Skins
              Plugins
              Visualizer
              Equalizer
              Theater Mode

this should be enough, the footer only contains this links which are useful, also musicbee info, which i don't think that much useful as the download page already have those. any idea?

I've always been a little chagrined that it's not really apparent what is the current patched version.  Fixes on the fly should be captured somewhere and made obvious. A site redesign is a good opportunity to do that.

Quote
Perhaps the 'latest patch' should be linked to this: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Latest_Update

Thanks for pointing it out. the MAIN problem with the current site(not the test one) is that it is TOO static. problems like updating existing info is painful and require HTML editing which is not convenient. BUT i am working on a better way to edit and modify things automatically whenever Steven upload a new patch or new version.
It is a json file that will contain all the musicbee version and download link related infos and will be modified using a NEW admin center [/b](separate one from the forum). the demo site footer and download page is already powered by these:
here is the json file link if anyone is interested, it is still a WIP
test.getmusicbee.com/musicbee_data/database.json (http://test.getmusicbee.com/musicbee_data/database.json)

still a bit more time required to finish it.

Quote
One thing I might suggest is the inclusion of the MusicBee logo in the first sub content div and in the header. I really like this overhaul.

yeah i also have the same plan..... now WILL SOMEONE MAKE A NICER LOGO?? (a modern version of the current musicbee?)

ALSO I ACTUALLY MADE SOME IMPROVEMENT IN THE FORUM(which is not live btw, Steven is busy so, will have to wait).
you guys will love it:

(http://i.imgur.com/6aIZvhZ.jpg)
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: psychoadept on November 23, 2015, 05:05:41 PM
I love this, too. There are a few good modernized icons available in the icon forum.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 23, 2015, 05:16:51 PM
I love this, too. There are a few good modernized icons available in the icon forum.
damn i forget about that :S
will check it out. i think the best way to get a icon is to choose the best icons(look similar to the current one with modern design), and then ask Steven to choose one he like the most. the problem is i am really busy with the site, so will take some time before any icon is decided.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: Bee-liever on November 23, 2015, 09:35:35 PM
Could you also maybe look at recycling the honeycomb background from the current forum and website into the new one's.
Maybe as the background for the footer?
I think it's a great analogy for MusicBee; all of us little cells - listening to our own types of music, but interconnected by our passion for music and our use of MusicBee.
Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 24, 2015, 12:34:24 AM
The update is not fully activated for the FORUM! i am waiting for steven's reply, the site is perfectly fine though.

THIS IS A BIG UPDATE, here is the list:
forum is now integrated with the site itself. Just sign in to the forum,( use a dummy account btw), and look at the top menubar and you will see NEW message count! and for admins they will see another link to admin center(not up yet).
here is how it look:

(http://i.imgur.com/hd6lbDC.jpg)

Backened is improved a LOT!

Download page is now improved.

Menubar has now ADD-ONS option.

(http://i.imgur.com/U4HtHhk.jpg)

Completely redesigned FORUM UI!

Title: Re: MusicBee Website Design UPDATE!
Post by: AvikB on November 24, 2015, 12:35:46 AM
Could you also maybe look at recycling the honeycomb background from the current forum and website into the new one's.
Maybe as the background for the footer?
I think it's a great analogy for MusicBee; all of us little cells - listening to our own types of music, but interconnected by our passion for music and our use of MusicBee.

Nice suggestion. i will see what i can do.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 24, 2015, 01:13:30 AM
I like what you've done with the download section for the installer and portable versions. 

However, I think the top menu item for Add-Ons is misleading.  Those sub-items (I assume) will point to those sections of the forum.  Users might be confused thinking that they can get Skins, Plug-ins, etc from there.  And while technically they can, they'll have to search through the forum to find them.  Again, this drop-down is part of the forum and might better be placed under the Forum menu item.  Perhaps with all the other sub-forums.   Or just leave "forums" as is and eliminate the reference to Add-Ons. 

That's just my two cents. 
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 24, 2015, 01:27:34 AM
I like what you've done with the download section for the installer and portable versions. 

However, I think the top menu item for Add-Ons is misleading.  Those sub-items (I assume) will point to those sections of the forum.  Users might be confused thinking that they can get Skins, Plug-ins, etc from there.  And while technically they can, they'll have to search through the forum to find them.  Again, this drop-down is part of the forum and might better be placed under the Forum menu item.  Perhaps with all the other sub-forums.   Or just leave "forums" as is and eliminate the reference to Add-Ons. 

That's just my two cents. 

I thought that too, but don't worry! a custom CMS for managing plugin/skin is on the way! :)
or maybe links to wikia

Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on November 24, 2015, 01:33:32 AM
Those sub-items (I assume) will point to those sections of the forum.  Users might be confused thinking that they can get Skins, Plug-ins, etc from there.  And while technically they can, they'll have to search through the forum to find them.

I thought that too, but don't worry! a custom CMS for managing plugin/skin is on the way! :)
Admins would be able to add or remove plugins/skins also mention which MB version it supports and  possible bugs

Or maybe they could be linked to the appropriate sections of the wiki?
It's already set up for add-on authors to post and maintain their own work. Plus it has installation instructions.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 24, 2015, 11:24:46 AM
However, I think the top menu item for Add-Ons is misleading.  Those sub-items (I assume) will point to those sections of the forum.  Users might be confused thinking that they can get Skins, Plug-ins, etc from there.  And while technically they can, they'll have to search through the forum to find them.  Again, this drop-down is part of the forum and might better be placed under the Forum menu item.  Perhaps with all the other sub-forums.   Or just leave "forums" as is and eliminate the reference to Add-Ons. 

I agree with phred, this makes sense.
Fact is, it is probably confusing to some newbies that we have both a website, a forum, and a wiki.
To make that as clear as possible I feel also it would be best to have separate top menu's for forum and wikibee (yep, I am throwing in a new name suggestion for 'wikia' for free ;-)
Then both the 'forum', and the 'wikibee' menu could have their own applicable entries for skins, faq's, downloads, etc.
Of course that's not ideal either, it might confuse new users a bit where to go, but at least it would represent the factual situation as it is. After all the fact just is that we do have some overlaps between the website, forum and wiki.

Thinking this through, maybe it would be good to have an entry called something like: "where to go from here?", briefly explaining the differences between, and features of the website vs. the wiki, vs. the forum.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 24, 2015, 07:16:09 PM
SIGNUP/REGISTER page has been completely redesigned :)
looks much better now, update is not live yet, as the demo forum is not functional yet, steven got some problem and i have some issue in my end too (damn my crappy internet ;( ). but i will update much more, specially the login page.

here is a quick look at the register page:
btw, those key icons in the password box is from my KEEPASS password manager, and is not related to the site design :S

(http://i.imgur.com/s7N3Izu.jpg)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 24, 2015, 07:28:20 PM
However, I think the top menu item for Add-Ons is misleading.  Those sub-items (I assume) will point to those sections of the forum.  Users might be confused thinking that they can get Skins, Plug-ins, etc from there.  And while technically they can, they'll have to search through the forum to find them.  Again, this drop-down is part of the forum and might better be placed under the Forum menu item.  Perhaps with all the other sub-forums.   Or just leave "forums" as is and eliminate the reference to Add-Ons. 

I agree with phred, this makes sense.
Fact is, it is probably confusing to some newbies that we have both a website, a forum, and a wiki.
To make that as clear as possible I feel also it would be best to have separate top menu's for forum and wikibee (yep, I am throwing in a new name suggestion for 'wikia' for free ;-)
Then both the 'forum', and the 'wikibee' menu could have their own applicable entries for skins, faq's, downloads, etc.
Of course that's not ideal either, it might confuse new users a bit where to go, but at least it would represent the factual situation as it is. After all the fact just is that we do have some overlaps between the website, forum and wiki.

Thinking this through, maybe it would be good to have an entry called something like: "where to go from here?", briefly explaining the differences between, and features of the website vs. the wiki, vs. the forum.

the whole point of having both wikia and forum is confusing at best. and i DON'T LIKE WIKIA  >:(
the main reason wikia is used for having all the skin plugin info in one place, then they link to forum, also is confusing.
the user might (i did) wonder, where could they actually do the download? (or precisely, where is the BIG BUTTON SAY DOWNLOAD?)

wikia SHOULD NOT be using for download links, it should be mainly for FAQ, HOW TO DO's

i am actually thinking about, creating a CMS just for managing PLUGINS and SKINS and others. you won't need any extra account if you sign up with the forum account, you are good to go(only moderator and admin for now),
there would be a central page for getting all the addons, there will be a download button, description, which musicbee version it will work on, os requirement, known bugs, screenshot and a link to the support forum.

so do you guys like the idea?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 24, 2015, 09:25:59 PM
The MusicBee wikia was created practically single-handedly with amazing effort and perseverance by longtime member psychadept, since it was filling a need nor the website, nor the forum was (is) offering.

It would probably be a very good idea if you could get in contact with him to see if you could join forces, and with his help, input and experience could create something even better and a bit more more streamlined.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE and FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 06:26:50 AM
The MusicBee wikia was created practically single-handedly with amazing effort and perseverance by longtime member psychadept, since it was filling a need nor the website, nor the forum was (is) offering.

It would probably be a very good idea if you could get in contact with him to see if you could join forces, and with his help, input and experience could create something even better and a bit more more streamlined.

Thats a good idea, also the forum is now live, check it out.
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on November 27, 2015, 10:47:05 AM
Can I get some feedback on this:
At the moment plugins and skins are maintained on the forum and also in the wiki.
I think no matter what, the forum would need to be the place when a skin or plugin is first introduced and comments/ feedback and new iterations done.
I also like the idea that there is one page to get a final version of any skin, thats in an easy to read and you can quickly scroll down and see snapshots of a skin. The wiki serves this purpose for now.

However on the new web-site demo, there is an Add-Ons link.
I like this because it makes accessing them easily discovered. How do you feel about having the plugins and skins moved from the wiki to a content management style system where designated people could put the final version into a templated format that would then be accessible by the Add-Ons link.
For myself, i would like to see more of what AvikB is proposing how it would look, but I understand it will be quite a lot of effort so i think its best we get buy-in from the forum members (especially those who did the wiki) before going to far with it
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 27, 2015, 01:13:57 PM
Can I get some feedback on this:
At the moment plugins and skins are maintained on the forum and also in the wiki.
I think no matter what, the forum would need to be the place when a skin or plugin is first introduced and comments/ feedback and new iterations done.
Agreed.

Quote
I also like the idea that there is one page to get a final version of any skin, thats in an easy to read and you can quickly scroll down and see snapshots of a skin. The wiki serves this purpose for now.
I feel this is critical.  It's the only place where a user can easily compare skins, all in one simple to scroll, place.  If I had to reply on the forum to find a skin, I'd go crazy. 

Quote
However on the new web-site demo, there is an Add-Ons link.
I like this because it makes accessing them easily discovered. How do you feel about having the plugins and skins moved from the wiki to a content management style system where designated people could put the final version into a templated format that would then be accessible by the Add-Ons link.
In this method, would one be able to see skins side-by-side (or one under another) in a larger than thumbnail size?  If so, I'm all for it. 
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 27, 2015, 01:32:34 PM
The new forum is missing some things I (and I'm sure others) use frequently.

-Near the top of the forum home page, under the logo, is a section showing PMs, unread posts, and new replies to the user's posts.
That really needs to be incorporated into the new layout.
(http://i.imgur.com/KBP5Jqzl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/KBP5Jqz.jpg)

- On the registration page, "I agree with the terms and condition. Read below" The word CONDITION should be plural: conditions.
- When quoting and replying to an existing post, I don't see previous posts.  This prevents one from quoting from multiple posts.

In addition, I think you should remove from the subject of this thread that the "new forum is now live."  That implies we are to start using it for questions, posts, etc.  Perhaps changing it to "now ready for testing" or something like that would be better.  The last thing I want to do is to check two different forums to see what's going on.


Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 27, 2015, 01:36:15 PM
The fonts in the new forum are looking a bit ugly. (in FireFox)
is there something to be done about that?

(http://i.imgur.com/vbO3RD6l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/vbO3RD6.png)
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on November 27, 2015, 03:36:35 PM
"Get Latest Patch" should point to an actual live link, instead of the Download forum which isn't maintained fully current.

I know that I can look for phred's sig to find it,  but others won't know that.  I've always been a little chagrined that it's not really apparent what is the current patched version.  Fixes on the fly should be captured somewhere and made obvious. A site redesign is a good opportunity to do that.
Good point.
Perhaps the 'latest patch' should be linked to this: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Latest_Update

To add to this, I see in the new design that there's a corresponding link for "Release Notes".  I do hope that that gets support and is fleshed out even for those quick-fix updates that are done on an ad hoc basis, generally in response to a bug report post. 

I do want to know what's been changed when there's an update; it's not possible to read every thread to keep up with these fixes. 
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 03:41:30 PM
Quote
I also like the idea that there is one page to get a final version of any skin, thats in an easy to read and you can quickly scroll down and see snapshots of a skin. The wiki serves this purpose for now.
I feel this is critical.  It's the only place where a user can easily compare skins, all in one simple to scroll, place.  If I had to reply on the forum to find a skin, I'd go crazy. 
Yeah that is the plan, one centralized place for all add-ons.
Quote
Quote
However on the new web-site demo, there is an Add-Ons link.
I like this because it makes accessing them easily discovered. How do you feel about having the plugins and skins moved from the wiki to a content management style system where designated people could put the final version into a templated format that would then be accessible by the Add-Ons link.
In this method, would one be able to see skins side-by-side (or one under another) in a larger than thumbnail size?  If so, I'm all for it. 
what do you mean by side by side? the image of the skin will be uploaded either by mod/admin or the author itself, so different muiscbee setup will have different musicbee layout, and comparing them while skinned will be weird thing as some screenshot will look a lot more different than other. :/
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 03:48:59 PM
The new forum is missing some things I (and I'm sure others) use frequently.

-Near the top of the forum home page, under the logo, is a section showing PMs, unread posts, and new replies to the user's posts.
That really needs to be incorporated into the new layout.
(http://i.imgur.com/KBP5Jqzl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/KBP5Jqz.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/3LCDsjt.jpg)

the message will show any NEW message, hovering over will show new message and total message. this is site wide so it does not matter if you are not on the forum or using any other website page.

Quote
- On the registration page, "I agree with the terms and condition. Read below" The word CONDITION should be plural: conditions.
- When quoting and replying to an existing post, I don't see previous posts.  This prevents one from quoting from multiple posts.
Thanks. will be fixed in new update

Quote
In addition, I think you should remove from the subject of this thread that the "new forum is now live."  That implies we are to start using it for questions, posts, etc.  Perhaps changing it to "now ready for testing" or something like that would be better.  The last thing I want to do is to check two different forums to see what's going on.
ok, will change it.

Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 03:56:12 PM
The fonts in the new forum are looking a bit ugly. (in FireFox)
is there something to be done about that?

(http://i.imgur.com/vbO3RD6l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/vbO3RD6.png)
this is werid, it does not look bad on my end. i am using firefox version 42!  :/
which version of firefox are you using? os?
also can you try disabling plugins, refresh the page, clear caches?
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 04:00:59 PM
"Get Latest Patch" should point to an actual live link, instead of the Download forum which isn't maintained fully current.

I know that I can look for phred's sig to find it,  but others won't know that.  I've always been a little chagrined that it's not really apparent what is the current patched version.  Fixes on the fly should be captured somewhere and made obvious. A site redesign is a good opportunity to do that.
Good point.
Perhaps the 'latest patch' should be linked to this: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Latest_Update

To add to this, I see in the new design that there's a corresponding link for "Release Notes".  I do hope that that gets support and is fleshed out even for those quick-fix updates that are done on an ad hoc basis, generally in response to a bug report post. 

I do want to know what's been changed when there's an update; it's not possible to read every thread to keep up with these fixes. 
there is already a release note page http://getmusicbee.com/release_notes.html (http://getmusicbee.com/release_notes.html)
in the new website it is till not up yet.
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 27, 2015, 04:19:05 PM
this is werid, it does not look bad on my end.

Looking at your screenshot, you probably have 'cleartype' (smooth edges of screen fonts) enabled in Windows?
Like many others, I always disable that since it 'confuses/hurts' my eyes (or brain?)

Could you perhaps choose a font that would also look good without 'cleartype'?
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on November 27, 2015, 04:22:58 PM
Quote
there is already a release note page http://getmusicbee.com/release_notes.html

Oh, man, I totally have been overlooking that.  

However, now that you've pointed it out, where would I find the notes for

5759
5789
5794
5797

for example? 

That's what I'm getting at.  How can this be kept current?
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 04:29:30 PM
this is werid, it does not look bad on my end.

Looking at your screenshot, you probably have 'cleartype' (smooth edges of screen fonts) enabled in Windows?
Like many others, I always disable that since it 'confuses/hurts' my eyes (or brain?)

Could you perhaps choose a font that would also look good without 'cleartype'?
yeah it is enabled on my system. I am using roboto, let me see if i can do anything about it.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 04:33:17 PM
Quote
there is already a release note page http://getmusicbee.com/release_notes.html

Oh, man, I totally have been overlooking that.  

However, now that you've pointed it out, where would I find the notes for

5759
5789
5794
5797

for example? 

That's what I'm getting at.  How can this be kept current?

that would be a huge tasks to update the release notes for EVERY minor release. it is upto Steven, but i am afraid there is no change logs for every single update(as the minor release is a bit frequent)
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 04:34:41 PM
this is werid, it does not look bad on my end.

Looking at your screenshot, you probably have 'cleartype' (smooth edges of screen fonts) enabled in Windows?
Like many others, I always disable that since it 'confuses/hurts' my eyes (or brain?)

Could you perhaps choose a font that would also look good without 'cleartype'?

btw how is it looking in chrome with clear type disabled?(assuming you have chrome)
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 04:45:31 PM
this is werid, it does not look bad on my end.

Looking at your screenshot, you probably have 'cleartype' (smooth edges of screen fonts) enabled in Windows?
Like many others, I always disable that since it 'confuses/hurts' my eyes (or brain?)

Could you perhaps choose a font that would also look good without 'cleartype'?
also what firefox version are you using? somefirefox version has weird font rendering issue
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 27, 2015, 04:49:28 PM
what do you mean by side by side? the image of the skin will be uploaded either by mod/admin or the author itself, so different muiscbee setup will have different musicbee layout, and comparing them while skinned will be weird thing as some screenshot will look a lot more different than other. :/
My use of the words "side by side" was just an example of a possible layout for the skin screenshots.  My point is that I strongly feel there needs to be a place where they can all be seen in comparison with one another.

In the current implementation of the forum, it is impossible to compare skins.  For instance, I'm feeling blue and want a blue skin.  I would have to open every new thread on the skins sub-forum in order to see a screenshot.  On the Wiki, I can just go to "skins > all skins by author" and see them all in one place, one under the other, all the same size and look for something blue. 
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 05:01:31 PM
what do you mean by side by side? the image of the skin will be uploaded either by mod/admin or the author itself, so different muiscbee setup will have different musicbee layout, and comparing them while skinned will be weird thing as some screenshot will look a lot more different than other. :/
My use of the words "side by side" was just an example of a possible layout for the skin screenshots.  My point is that I strongly feel there needs to be a place where they can all be seen in comparison with one another.

In the current implementation of the forum, it is impossible to compare skins.  For instance, I'm feeling blue and want a blue skin.  I would have to open every new thread on the skins sub-forum in order to see a screenshot.  On the Wiki, I can just go to "skins > all skins by author" and see them all in one place, one under the other, all the same size and look for something blue. 

oh, don't worry the new site skin section will also have the ability to filter through a color: like blue or red or anything else
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on November 27, 2015, 05:02:01 PM
in regards to the release notes i am not planning to do more than what i currently do ie. just a sumary of the major points of the release. Anyone who really cares can check the latest release forum topic which lists in detail all changes made as they are done
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 27, 2015, 05:08:02 PM
also what firefox version are you using? somefirefox version has weird font rendering issue

The same as you, 42.0
It's probably not a specific Firefox issue. Roboto looks similarly ugly in Word on my system.
I don't have Chrome installed, so I can't tell you how that would look.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 27, 2015, 05:21:54 PM
Roboto is great for smartphone displays and tablets. I recommend PT Sans.

A few of the usual suspects,including PT Sans and Roboto:

(http://i.imgur.com/hI5ISQjs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/hI5ISQj.png)

I like Calibri and Verdana a lot. They look very clean and well readable, even at very small font sizes.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 27, 2015, 06:03:16 PM
Whatever the outcome on what the font winds up being, it should be a font that is available in all Windows editions.  For instance, Roboto is not installed on my Win7 machine.  Therefore Firefox will substitute something else where Roboto should be.  Remember, not everyone has access to all the same fonts unless they were installed with Windows.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 06:11:46 PM
Whatever the outcome on what the font winds up being, it should be a font that is available in all Windows editions.  For instance, Roboto is not installed on my Win7 machine.  Therefore Firefox will substitute something else where Roboto should be.  Remember, not everyone has access to all the same fonts unless they were installed with Windows.

NO, the fon't does not need to be installed!
the browser gets the font from fonts.googleapis.com
this is how i do it right now:
Code
@import url(https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Roboto:400,100,300,700);

it has nothing to do with windows machine. ROBOTO is a widely used font for website development.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 06:13:55 PM
Roboto is great for smartphone displays and tablets. I recommend PT Sans.

A few of the usual suspects,including PT Sans and Roboto:

(http://i.imgur.com/hI5ISQjs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/hI5ISQj.png)

I like Calibri and Verdana a lot. They look very clean and well readable, even at very small font sizes.

damn all of those fonts look so edgy!! i will see what i can do
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 27, 2015, 06:30:18 PM
NO, the fon't does not need to be installed!
the browser gets the font from fonts.googleapis.com
this is how i do it right now:
Code
@import url(https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Roboto:400,100,300,700);
it has nothing to do with windows machine. ROBOTO is a widely used font for website development.
I'm sorry.  If that's the case, then I stand corrected.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 07:28:11 PM
Roboto is great for smartphone displays and tablets. I recommend PT Sans.

A few of the usual suspects,including PT Sans and Roboto:

(http://i.imgur.com/hI5ISQjs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/hI5ISQj.png)

I like Calibri and Verdana a lot. They look very clean and well readable, even at very small font sizes.

The font issue is now fixed
i have pushed an update which should fix the font issue.

i didn't change font to Verdana or Calibri just to fix this issue. instead the site still use Roboto. BUT switch to Verdana and Arial when fon't smoothing is disabled.

Not only the forum but the whole site should fix these issue, can you confirm the fix?
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 27, 2015, 07:42:05 PM
Confirmed.

My eyes thank you!
Sharp as a razor again:

(http://i.imgur.com/4sr5rKZs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4sr5rKZ.png)

(funny to see, when opening the webpage or forum for a first time, you see the alternative font kicking in after around a second)
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on November 27, 2015, 07:55:32 PM
for me, most of the fonts look like Roboto, except all the text in the "General" section and in the "Support" section which looks like Times New Roman to me.
eg. the "General" and "Support" headers, along with all other text such as "Advanced search" look Roboto but "Latest Version" is Times New Roman
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 07:56:24 PM
Confirmed.

My eyes thank you!
Sharp as a razor again:

werid, i have no clue how you can stare at those razer sharp fonts :O my eye bleeds even staring at them.

(http://i.imgur.com/4sr5rKZs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4sr5rKZ.png)

(funny to see, when opening the webpage or forum for a first time, you see the alternative font kicking in after around a second)

yeah, thats mostly because there is TONS of CSS to load, before it reaches that style part :) and i already have mentioned default font style at the top(which is roboto), and then at line 530 these replacements are mentioned! i might move them to top for better loading.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 08:01:38 PM
for me, most of the fonts look like Roboto, except all the text in the "General" section and in the "Support" section which looks like Times New Roman to me.
eg. the "General" and "Support" headers, along with all other text such as "Advanced search" look Roboto but "Latest Version" is Times New Roman

I used mostly Arial and Verdana, dunno about Times New Roman! i might change "Latest Version" to Arial instead of Verdana... thats not the priority though, working on the addon center.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 27, 2015, 08:02:30 PM
weird, i have no clue how you can stare at those razer sharp fonts :O my eye bleeds even staring at them.

Different folks, different strokes ;-)
But I do have f.lux running to avoid 'looking into the sun'. Otherwise it would probably hurt my eyes too.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 08:09:10 PM
Different folks, different strokes ;-)
well thats true, let me know if you find any problem.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on November 27, 2015, 08:12:22 PM
I used mostly Arial and Verdana, dunno about Times New Roman! i might change "Latest Version" to Arial instead of Verdana... thats not the priority though, working on the addon center.
it looks fine as is now - just thought you were only using Roberto
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 27, 2015, 08:15:28 PM
I used mostly Arial and Verdana, dunno about Times New Roman! i might change "Latest Version" to Arial instead of Verdana... thats not the priority though, working on the addon center.
it looks fine as is now - just thought you were only using Roberto

Yes by default EVERYTHING use Roboto, but when clear-font is disabled the site use verdana and arial
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on November 27, 2015, 08:24:26 PM
clear type is not disabled on my machine
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on November 27, 2015, 08:27:13 PM
screenshot:
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/temp/newforum.jpg)
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 28, 2015, 02:13:44 AM
screenshot:
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/temp/newforum.jpg)

it should not look like that! it seems that page is not fully loaded. also what browser, what version and try to refresh if the issue persist, also maybe clear browser cache.

also check inspect element console to see if any error related to not able to load something
(http://i.imgur.com/oQEsBMV.png)
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on November 28, 2015, 03:03:52 AM
How do you feel about having the plugins and skins moved from the wiki to a content management style system where designated people could put the final version into a templated format that would then be accessible by the Add-Ons link.

To me it makes sense to have skins and plugins available on the main website rather than having to follow an off-site link.
For a good example of how this might be achieved, check out Kodi (formerly XBMC). http://addons.kodi.tv/
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: psychoadept on November 28, 2015, 03:23:32 AM
How do you feel about having the plugins and skins moved from the wiki to a content management style system where designated people could put the final version into a templated format that would then be accessible by the Add-Ons link.

To me it makes sense to have skins and plugins available on the main website rather than having to follow an off-site link.
For a good example of how this might be achieved, check out Kodi (formerly XBMC). http://addons.kodi.tv/

I'm all for this, as long as it doesn't create any obstacles to keeping the list up-to-date.
Title: Re: [NEW FORUM IS NOW LIVE!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 28, 2015, 05:20:29 AM
How do you feel about having the plugins and skins moved from the wiki to a content management style system where designated people could put the final version into a templated format that would then be accessible by the Add-Ons link.

To me it makes sense to have skins and plugins available on the main website rather than having to follow an off-site link.
For a good example of how this might be achieved, check out Kodi (formerly XBMC). http://addons.kodi.tv/

I'm all for this, as long as it doesn't create any obstacles to keeping the list up-to-date.

so far that is the plan. i am currently laying down structure for the cms.
HERE IS THE BASIC STRUCTURE OF THE ADDON CMS:

1. Only mod and admin will be able to add addons. Normal forum user can't do it by themselves. (we don't want user to add crap or spam)
2. A forum user need to submit their addon(skin,plugin etc.) to the forum first, where beta test will be done to see if the addon actually add any value to the collection.
3. If the addon is favored by users and mods or the addon is GOOD enough the author can ask a mod to add it to the main addon collection. Or, a mod can ask the author if it is okay to add the addon to the main site.
4. After a mod added the addon, he can also authorize the author to maintain(update/ modify) the addon page.
also an ADDON MUST HAVE SCREENSHOTS and detail description of what it does and some guidance.

Now for addon dashboard for authors there will be options for:
adding beta tags for the addon, directly upload screenshots to imgur(don't need to visit the imgur site to do it), adding download links, mirrors, mentioning the known bugs, installing guidance, link to the support forum, also what version of the musicbee the plugin works.

as for regular user, they can browse skins, and other addons, filter skin results by color or tags(if added by the skin author in the dashboard).
also if the user is logged in they will able to LIKE the addon(no commenting or dislike though), the more the rating the addon gets, the more it will be on the top. BUT new addon(randomly) will also be shown at the addon page, as we don't want ONLY THE POPULAR ADDON TO SHOW.

this is the basic things that is planned for now.  SO what do you guys think? any more suggestions?
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on November 28, 2015, 09:07:03 AM
it should not look like that! it seems that page is not fully loaded. also what browser, what version and try to refresh if the issue persist, also maybe clear browser cache.
it seems to have sorted itself out this morning and working as expected
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 28, 2015, 10:56:26 AM
it should not look like that! it seems that page is not fully loaded. also what browser, what version and try to refresh if the issue persist, also maybe clear browser cache.
it seems to have sorted itself out this morning and working as expected
well the problem was browser cache! glad it sorted out
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 28, 2015, 11:04:14 AM
The new add-ons page design is started
so far it looks good, i took the idea from the new Windows 10 store, with a bit improved UI,

the author can now choose a background image for the top(optional), also a theme color for the skin upload is necessary.
(http://i.imgur.com/x6GdLBD.jpg)

if no image is mentioned then it will use the default theme color chosen by author. also the author can mention any important note, like if any third party software is needed or not, or if something is broken(though it is not for showing common bugs).

(http://i.imgur.com/SJGBqU3.png)
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 28, 2015, 01:58:35 PM
When using the new Forum there are two "Home" buttons.  One takes the user to the home page for MB, the other takes the user to the top level of the forum.  I think the name of the latter should be changed to avoid confusion.  The current forum has "getmusicbee.com" but I think something more like "Forum Home" would be more descriptive.
(http://i.imgur.com/MfGyytUl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/MfGyytU.jpg)
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 28, 2015, 03:57:25 PM
When using the new Forum there are two "Home" buttons.  One takes the user to the home page for MB, the other takes the user to the top level of the forum.  I think the name of the latter should be changed to avoid confusion.  The current forum has "getmusicbee.com" but I think something more like "Forum Home" would be more descriptive.
(http://i.imgur.com/MfGyytUl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/MfGyytU.jpg)

actually the current forum also has two home
(http://i.imgur.com/seZbBMD.jpg)

i do like forum home better. i will change it.
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on November 28, 2015, 04:15:32 PM
I think it's time for me to trade in my eyes for a new pair.    :(

I hope this isn't related to me needing a new set of eyeballs, but I'm pretty sure these two boxes were lined up earlier today.  Definitely yesterday.
(http://i.imgur.com/KvuEh7al.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/KvuEh7a.jpg)
Title: Re: [NOW READY FOR TESTING!] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 28, 2015, 04:35:08 PM
I think it's time for me to trade in my eyes for a new pair.    :(

I hope this isn't related to me needing a new set of eyeballs, but I'm pretty sure these two boxes were lined up earlier today.  Definitely yesterday.
(http://i.imgur.com/KvuEh7al.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/KvuEh7a.jpg)

yes, i just pushed a new update as you were using the forum, and i messed up few styling :P
i pushed another update, it should be fixed.

also changed home to forum home, and some other major styling changes and few correction(thanks everyone for pointing out).
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 29, 2015, 08:55:56 AM
NEW ADDON PAGE IS UP
this is what the user will if he clicks on a skin(the main lists pafe is still WIP).

link to the addon page http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php)

i just completed the MYSQL Schema for the database. The forum registration will be used, no need for another registration or account.

also the red background will be customizable by the skin author, also author can specify a background image too.

screenshot slider is available, also touch friendly!

Readme section uses markdown instead of html or bbcode. still more option like filtering by colors, author to come. but since the schema is complete it won't be THAT hard :P

here is how it looks:
(http://i.imgur.com/TSxCdqA.jpg)
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on November 29, 2015, 09:24:43 AM
Wow, you are really doing amazing work!
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Xenatier on November 29, 2015, 09:55:09 AM
Looking really good!
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 29, 2015, 10:11:54 AM
Wow, you are really doing amazing work!
:) thanks, currently doing the addon dashboard, should be able to provide a demo soon.
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 29, 2015, 10:13:55 AM
Looking really good!
thanks, also make sure to report ideas and bugs
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Mephisto on November 29, 2015, 11:58:47 AM
I wonder if the dots for the different screenshots would not be better if the selected one was white and the others were grey.
(http://i.imgur.com/aAdUfMU.png)
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on November 30, 2015, 02:15:13 PM
I wonder if the dots for the different screenshots would not be better if the selected one was white and the others were grey.
(http://i.imgur.com/aAdUfMU.png)


Thanks for the feedback, it definitely looks better with white being selected. I am actually quite busy with the addon center so don't expect any new update in few day or so :( , also report for any other suggestion, i will look into them.
Title: Re: [ADDONS PAGE DEMO IS READY FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 01, 2015, 11:57:09 AM
NEW FORUM UPDATE IS LIVE
Child boards is not done yet, so they don't look good

The forum is now almost complete, few icon changing and child board styling improvement should be the LAST job with the forum.

The topics page should look GOOD now, also the main page has a lots of improvement.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/forum

visit the forum and check it out yourself. As usual give feedback.

changelog:
1.there are some minor improvement to the download page, the beta section have a warning icon.
2.Addon page slider active dots are now white,
3.Biggest change is the forum, specially the topic page.
4.The secondery navigation bar is now sticky.
5.Web Admin Panel is now improved and fixed some bugs in the layout.
6.also non admin/mod user can now see a small yellow icon on the menubar, hovering over will show "ADDON DASHBOARD" menu, which is not available yet(WIP).
and a lot, mostly improving the styling, and addon dashboard.


Thanks for the feedback, it definitely looks better with white being selected. I am actually quite busy with the addon center so don't expect any new update in few day or so :( , also report for any other suggestion, i will look into them.

Forget what i said, a new update is now available ;) BUT the addon dashboard is still WIP, will available later this week or so.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 01, 2015, 12:19:32 PM
A few quickies:

1.
There is a links: Got an idea for a new feature? Make a feature wish in the forum"
Suggestion: have that link direct to the specific wishlist topic directly (instead of to general), but present an immediate page (or pop-up) with some 'read this first' text how to post. Such as 'have you done a forum search first?', 'are you using the most recent MB release?' etc.

A similar link and pop-up for 'reporting a bug' would be good too.

2.
In the bookmarks bar of FireFox, most bookmarks have a small icon representing the webpage. For your creation it is not there (yet?)

3.
It's very good that you have 'search' and 'advanced search' displaying next to each other.
For years I have silently cursed the primitive and lackluster search option in the current forum. Just now, thanks to your lay-out I discovered the current forum also has a more advanced search available when clicking the search button on the left. Grrr...
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 01, 2015, 12:39:51 PM
There is a links: Got an idea for a new feature? Make a feature wish in the forum"
Suggestion: have that link direct to the specific wishlist topic directly (instead of to general), but present an immediate page (or pop-up) with some 'read this first' text how to post. Such as 'have you done a forum search first?', 'are you using the most recent MB release?' etc.
Creating popup would be annoying, and most browser blocks them by deafult, a  immediate page would be nice. Planned for next(or maybe a later update, since i am doing the addon dashboard).

A similar link and pop-up for 'reporting a bug' would be good too.
It won't be a big deal to create a page for it, but i am have no idea what the content of the page would be? if anyone is willing to writing some pre-notice for reporting bug and feature would be nice as my english is pretty bad.

In the bookmarks bar of FireFox, most bookmarks have a small icon representing the webpage. For your creation it is not there (yet?)
Haven't decided the icon yet, it is upto Steven. and the site is not done yet, so i am not too much focusing on that.

It's very good that you have 'search' and 'advanced search' displaying next to each other.
For years I have silently cursed the primitive and lackluster search option in the current forum. Just now, thanks to your lay-out I discovered the current forum also has a more advanced search available when clicking the search button on the left. Grrr...
i never used advance search, but thought it might be a good idea to include it since a lots of member might wanna use it.

btw can you see this addon dashboard option? other options are only for admin right now :/

(http://i.imgur.com/l8INTFu.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 01, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
A similar link and pop-up for 'reporting a bug' would be good too.
It won't be a big deal to create a page for it, but i am have no idea what the content of the page would be? if anyone is willing to writing some pre-notice for reporting bug and feature would be nice as my english is pretty bad.

There already is something like that here: http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=1912.0
With some slight changes and updates that could be used.

Quote
btw can you see this addon dashboard option? other options are only for admin right now :/
(http://i.imgur.com/l8INTFu.jpg)

Yes, I see it.

And a maybe dumb question, I don't see a login option on the webpage itself, only one when you go to the forum?
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 01, 2015, 12:52:31 PM
For the screenshots of the skins, would it be possible to click those so to see them enlarged to their actual image size?
In that way you can see the details of the skin that are now a bit obscure sometimes.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 01, 2015, 01:09:13 PM
A similar link and pop-up for 'reporting a bug' would be good too.
It won't be a big deal to create a page for it, but i am have no idea what the content of the page would be? if anyone is willing to writing some pre-notice for reporting bug and feature would be nice as my english is pretty bad.

There already is something like that here: http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=1912.0
With some slight changes and updates that could be used.
Definitely look into those. with that available i can create a notice page for reporting bug and feature today and make a demo available.

And a maybe dumb question, I don't see a login option on the webpage itself, only one when you go to the forum?

Unfortunately there is none right now. I am thinking of listing login/register under the small yellow icon on the menu.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 01, 2015, 01:10:46 PM
For the screenshots of the skins, would it be possible to click those so to see them enlarged to their actual image size?
In that way you can see the details of the skin that are now a bit obscure sometimes.
Yes definitely.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 01, 2015, 01:12:05 PM
For the screenshots of the skins, would it be possible to click those so to see them enlarged to their actual image size?
In that way you can see the details of the skin that are now a bit obscure sometimes.
+1 +1 +1 +1
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 01, 2015, 01:16:46 PM
For the screenshots of the skins, would it be possible to click those so to see them enlarged to their actual image size?
In that way you can see the details of the skin that are now a bit obscure sometimes.
+1 +1 +1 +1
fullscreen image viewing support is comming soon. :)
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 01, 2015, 01:23:18 PM
For the screenshots of the skins, would it be possible to click those so to see them enlarged to their actual image size?
In that way you can see the details of the skin that are now a bit obscure sometimes.

For the screenshots of the skins, would it be possible to click those so to see them enlarged to their actual image size?
In that way you can see the details of the skin that are now a bit obscure sometimes.
+1 +1 +1 +1

BTW, what do you guys think would be the best option? if the user click image enlarge button,
1. should the image open in new tab? the plus point is it will use browsers default image viewer. and easy to zoom in and out.
2. or, a image preview dialogue opens in the same window(like facebook), BUT the image won't be full resolution! since the dialogue can't be bigger than the screen.

Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 01, 2015, 01:33:15 PM
I don't use facebook, so I can't give an opinion on that.

Simplicity would have my preference.
No need for extra pop-ups, tabs or zooming.
If possible, just 1 click to show the actual pixel size, click again to return to the previous view.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 01, 2015, 05:31:33 PM
I don't use facebook, so I can't give an opinion on that.

Simplicity would have my preference.
No need for extra pop-ups, tabs or zooming.
If possible, just 1 click to show the actual pixel size, click again to return to the previous view.
Yes, keep it simple.  One click is the way to go.

And I thought I was the only person left in the world who didn't use facebook.  It's kind of nice to have company.   :)
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 01, 2015, 06:02:50 PM
And I thought I was the only person left in the world who didn't use facebook.  It's kind of nice to have company.   :)

To be perfectly honest, I do have a facebook account. I created a login some 10 years ago. (and never opened it again after that ;-)

Back to business:

In the top menu there is an entry called 'add-ons', under which are entries such as plugins, visualiser, equalizer.

I have some suggestions on that.
The meaning of the term 'plugins' is practically identical to 'add-ons', so I think better to be avoided here.

Maybe under add-ons have something like:

- skins
- theater modes
- visualiser plugins
- audio plugins (or DSP plugins)
- functional extensions ( stuff like upnp addon, boroda74's tool, sync tools, etc.)

Also, same as you here, I also tend to use 'equalizer' (instead of equaliser), but equaliser (and visualiser) are proper British English, wich The Creator would probably prefer...
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 02, 2015, 07:05:37 AM
This is a minor update, but a lots of the things have been re-factored
The problem is now, how big the project has become. From a simple redesign to much more complex thing and cms. While there is nothing wrong with what has bee done so far, but the sheer amount of time and lines of code is written is huge. And with HUGE code comes the problem of loading and bandwidth of users, specially people with low speed.

Currently the stylesheet has over 1,710 lines of code in it, and loading it all in a page, that doesn't even needed half of the style that it offer is really not efficient. So i have divided the stylesheets into separate files, each for their own page, and ONE common stylesheet for common pages.

Also with this change some UI bug may appear, but none should be ground breaking. I have tested most of the site and found no bug, or fixed all them. BUT LET ME KNOW IF YOU FOUND ONE

I should have used SASS or LESS from the start to save me this headache ;( ,but............ oh well, will see..

This is mostly a update for stylesheets, BUT the addon page is now improved

I don't use facebook, so I can't give an opinion on that.
Simplicity would have my preference.
No need for extra pop-ups, tabs or zooming.
If possible, just 1 click to show the actual pixel size, click again to return to the previous view.

Yes, keep it simple.  One click is the way to go.

And I thought I was the only person left in the world who didn't use facebook.  It's kind of nice to have company.   :)

Thanks guys, I have updated the addon page with the following suggestions. Now one click on the image should show the image in higher res, also as a plus point, you can navigate around images(like a gallery).


In the top menu there is an entry called 'add-ons', under which are entries such as plugins, visualiser, equalizer.

I have some suggestions on that.
The meaning of the term 'plugins' is practically identical to 'add-ons', so I think better to be avoided here.

Maybe under add-ons have something like:

- skins
- theater modes
- visualiser plugins
- audio plugins (or DSP plugins)
- functional extensions ( stuff like upnp addon, boroda74's tool, sync tools, etc.)

Also, same as you here, I also tend to use 'equalizer' (instead of equaliser), but equaliser (and visualiser) are proper British English, wich The Creator would probably prefer...

I like most of these name BUT
- functional extensions 
, this is a really weird name. maybe something else! dunno.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 02, 2015, 07:31:35 AM

Maybe under add-ons have something like:

- skins
- theater modes
- visualiser plugins
- audio plugins (or DSP plugins)
- functional extensions ( stuff like upnp addon, boroda74's tool, sync tools, etc.)



I like most of these name BUT
- functional extensions 
, this is a really weird name. maybe something else! dunno.

You are calling me weird now?  ;-)
Well, maybe, yes. Also, I'm not a native English speaker, so of course any other suggestions are very welcome.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 02, 2015, 07:58:49 AM
I notice no slowness to speak of. (but I do have a quite fast and low-latency cable internet connection)
Only when I focus on this subject, since I am aware you are working on this, the 'font replacement' still takes a little while. But, I am sure this probably happens on some other websites too, and that never bothered me. Also, I believe that as soon as it is in my browser's cache the intended font loads immediately.

The screenshot zoom is working great. Thnx!
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 02, 2015, 08:07:59 AM
Ah, one more thing:

One thing that I like is how there is so much integration between the website and the forum in your design.
In a way, I also think it should be clear what is what, and where you are, but I like the integration very much.
What I am bringing up now could well be because I have to get adjusted to this new design and don't understand the working very well yet.

When you are logged in at the forum, then close your browser, and later on re-open the website page, you see the login icons (little guy, envelope) at the top.
So you know you are logged in.
But on that screen there is no logout button.

I am wondering: is logging in to the forum, the same thing as logging in to the website? Or are they synced or something like that?
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 02, 2015, 08:25:31 AM
You are calling me weird now?  ;-)
Well, maybe, yes. Also, I'm not a native English speaker, so of course any other suggestions are very welcome.
'hiccup' always reminds me of How to train your dragon's hiccup, no offense intended :)
but yeah "functional extension" sound like "hey these are the ONLY extension that functions well, others are maybe nonfunctional...." or something like that

Ah, one more thing:

One thing that I like is how there is so much integration between the website and the forum in your design.
In a way, I also think it should be clear what is what, and where you are, but I like the integration very much.
What I am bringing up now could well be because I have to get adjusted to this new design and don't understand the working very well yet.

When you are logged in at the forum, then close your browser, and later on re-open the website page, you see the login icons (little guy, envelope) at the top.
So you know you are logged in.
But on that screen there is no logout button.

I am wondering: is logging in to the forum, the same thing as logging in to the website? Or are they synced or something like that?

i haven't added login or logout button on any of the pages other than forum, this shouldn't take more than 2 minute to do, but i forgot :( , and now that you reminded me of that i will push another update in a hour or so.

and yes, the forum is now FULLY integrated with the site, also the addon dashboard for addon author also uses forum login, so if you are logged in in the forum you are good to go.

also another thing i might do is, when a user hovers over the message icon a dropdown box will open and SHOW latest messages.
Steven gave me the database access today, and i already tested it(just few minute ago), it is working, so integrating forum in deeper level won't take much time.
let me know if you are interested in this feature, i might also do the same for Show new replies to your posts., this will help most forum user.


oh and i forgot ;) .....
A CRITICAL UPDATE FOR ADMIN PANEL HAS BEEN PUSHED
it is a bug fix for a SQL query and some database access stuff, also made the code a bit more clean and manageable.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 02, 2015, 08:56:09 AM
'hiccup' always reminds me of How to train your dragon's hiccup, no offense intended :)
but yeah "functional extension" sound like "hey these are the ONLY extension that functions well, others are maybe nonfunctional...." or something like that

Ah, now I see your point, funny.  I think maybe you are right if the word used was 'functioning', but 'functional' might be good? Well, maybe even if that is so it might still be a little confusing. I don't know.
We'll need some input and suggestions from others members.

I will see that movie, and let you know if I am offended....
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 02, 2015, 08:57:51 AM
Steven gave me the database access today, and i already tested it(just few minute ago), it is working, so integrating forum in deeper level won't take much time.
let me know if you are interested in this feature, i might also do the same for Show new replies to your posts., this will help most forum user.

If I can't do too much damage, I am available for test-driving.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 02, 2015, 08:59:39 AM
I will see that movie, and let you know if I am offended....

it is a 3d animation movie btw, and one of my favorite one.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 02, 2015, 09:03:50 AM
Steven gave me the database access today, and i already tested it(just few minute ago), it is working, so integrating forum in deeper level won't take much time.
let me know if you are interested in this feature, i might also do the same for Show new replies to your posts., this will help most forum user.

If I can't do too much damage, I am available for test-driving.

you have to wait few days(1 or 2), the current one that i tasted have no gui, and have to edit the file manually then upload and THEN test.
will let you know when i have at least basic UI working.
Title: Re: [NEW DEMO FORUM UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 08, 2015, 06:31:17 AM
It's been nearly a week and no update!??
I was really busy with the markdown editor for MusicBee site. Also some major changes to the schema(database).

But most of all the new editor is the culprit, all i wanted is good simple and github flavored markdown editor. BUT, there are very few available. and most of them use Showdown for preview. I wanted to use markdown-it (since this is the only one i liked, and also is fast and extensible, while supporting github flavored markdown!),

For the editor i use WMD(the same one as the Stackoverflow), but THIS HASN'T BEEN UPDATE SINCE 2007!! and also it uses Showdown! so i have to heavily modified a lots of the major things, like using ``` for code, instead of four space, also changing the previewing to markdown-it, and then.... it does not work with ajax!! (well, after two days of debugging i finally solved the issue! YAY)

BTW, the new addon dashboard and admin panel heavily use ajax and dynamically load content(just like gmail).

The new update is not up yet. still gonna take some time. But it is still in work, and some major changes is coming.

well are the screenshots of the two new update.

This is addon dashboard. Still not live yet. But coming very soon.


(http://i.imgur.com/PNL0h5j.jpg)

and another major update to admin panel

(http://i.imgur.com/GdWFZEv.jpg)


When you are logged in at the forum, then close your browser, and later on re-open the website page, you see the login icons (little guy, envelope) at the top.
So you know you are logged in.
But on that screen there is no logout button.
also the new update has this improvement. now you can also logout from anywhere in the site.
(http://i.imgur.com/8TxagtA.jpg)
also if you are not logged in it will show login link.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 08, 2015, 08:04:03 AM
Impressive work, Avik. This looks like it'll streamline the whole process of publishing plugins, and also help new users to discover them.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 08:35:44 AM
Impressive work, Avik. This looks like it'll streamline the whole process of publishing plugins, and also help new users to discover them.

I fully agree.
This might also be a very important boost finally getting more developers joining, and contributing with new add-ons.
This new beautiful 'stage' AvikB is building will be much more rewarding to have their work presented and getting a wider attention to it.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 11:45:09 AM
This might be a good moment to have a look at the current forum structure, and see if some improvements could be made.

A few things that come to mind looking at the main forum boards on the start page:

"Latest Version"
It is a bit ambiguous. Is it a download link? Is it information on the most recent version only? Beta or Final?

"Customisations"
It currently envelopes both visual customisations, and functional (and functioning ;-) add-ons. It might be good to split those.

"General"
That's very general indeed, and it also resides under the identical named higher level "General"

"Rubbish bin"
That one doesn't really deserve a place on the main screen


Secondly we might need some new topic boards.

1.
I saw AvikB has created options for polls. That could be very interesting, and might be a useful and fun feature.
For developers to get input (votes) so to help on deciding on specific features or changes, and for mortal users for the sake of curiosity and maybe even add some fun.

2.
I have been noticing lately that there seems to be an increase in posts asking for help, which are difficult to understand because the poster seems to have some problems with the English language. Maybe even throwing their question from their native language though google translate...
For foreign languages users it might be very helpful to have the option to post in a support board for their own language.
For the sake of 'sharing knowledge' between all users it shouldn't be promoted, but it would probably be a blessing for some foreign language users, frustrated with explaining and understanding some more complicated issues.


Considering the above, I created a quick draft of what could be changed to provide for the above issues.

Currently we have:
GENERAL

Latest Version   -The latest version including fixes and new features
Customisations   -Child Boards: Icons, Localisation, Plugins, Skins, Screenshots, TheaterMode, Visualisers
General      -Got a question or comment?
MusicBee Wishlist   -What would you like to see in the next version?
Beyond MusicBee   -Talk about things not related to MusicBee

SUPPORT

Bug Reports      -To get bugs fixed, please report them here.   Child Boards: Portable Devices
Tips and Tricks   -Provide advice and tips to others - no questions please!
Developers      -Child Boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode

OTHER

Rubbish Bin


This is a proposed change in structure accommodating for the above observations:


GENERAL

Version Info         Child boards: Release version, Testing versions
Tips and Tricks
Customisations     Child boards: Icons, Localisation, Skins, TheaterMode, Visualisers
Plugins
MusicBee Wishlist
General Board      Child boards: General discussions, Beyond MusicBee, Screenshot gallery, Rubbish Bin
Polls                    Child boards: Developers polls, General polls

SUPPORT

Questions             Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Tips and Tricks
Developers            Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode
Bug Reports



The current descriptions for the specific boards will need some adjustments too. We can work that out later if these suggestions get some support, but some ideas:


Current:
- Latest Version   "The latest version including fixes and new features"

Proposal:
- Version info      "Information on MusicBee versions"
      Child boards:
      - release version         "notifications and announcements on the latest official release"
      - development versions    "notifications and announcements on alpha and beta releases"

Current:
- Customisations   this one currently has no description

Proposal:
- Customisations     "Customizing visuals and languages"
- Plugins                "Plugins for enhancing MusicBee's functionality"


Ideas?
(i am sure at least some wordings I suggest here could be improved on)

edit:
I changed some board descriptions, and corrected myself mixing the terminologies 'topic' and 'board' in this proposal.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Sofocl on December 08, 2015, 12:51:41 PM
For foreign languages users it might be very nice to have the option to post in a support topic for their own language.
+1
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 08, 2015, 01:11:26 PM
for the foreign language support, keep in mind the userbase of musicbee is quite small and i imagine it will be very unlikely there will be enough people who speak the language and able/ willing to help. At least with english only, its open to a wider audience of people who can help even if there is some misunderstandings.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 01:20:11 PM
for the foreign language support, keep in mind the userbase of musicbee is quite small and i imagine it will be very unlikely there will be enough people who speak the language and able/ willing to help. At least with english only, its open to a wider audience of people who can help even if there is some misunderstandings.

I fully agree and believe that's very true.
Yet, there are MB users that can't express themselves in understandable English. Some of them have gone to the wikia to get some help.
Also, I would expect increasing popularity of MusicBee after the new website, forum, v3 etc., so probably an increase in non-English speakers too.

It should be very clear that posting in such a board has repercussions on chances to get good support and is not encouraged.
It also will have to be moderated, which is slightly more difficult.
But it will probably fill a need. Also I can imagine some current foreign-language members subscribing to such boards to help-out such fellow members. (I would)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 08, 2015, 01:37:03 PM
Some really nice suggestion.

"Latest Version"
It is a bit ambiguous. Is it a download link? Is it information on the most recent version only? Beta or Final?

"Customisations"
It currently envelopes both visual customisations, and functional (and functioning ;-) add-ons. It might be good to split those.

"General"
That's very general indeed, and it also resides under the identical named higher level "General"

"Rubbish bin"
That one doesn't really deserve a place on the main screen
I agree, the latest version sounds ambiguous. although i don't know if removing rubbish bin is really necessary or not.  :/


I have been noticing lately that there seems to be an increase in posts asking for help, which are difficult to understand because the poster seems to have some problems with the English language. Maybe even throwing their question from their native language though google translate...
For foreign languages users it might be very helpful to have the option to post in a support topic for their own language.
For the sake of 'sharing knowledge' between all users it shouldn't be promoted, but it would probably be a blessing for some foreign language users, frustrated with explaining and understanding some more complicated issues.
to be fair google translate is not THAT ACCURATE! and also it will be hassle for English speaking user to help. I am not against the idea though. but i highly doubt any english speaking user will be willing to help them using GOOGLE TRANSLATOR! maybe any user that speaks the op's language can help them.

But then again what language boards to include! Chinese! japanese? spanish? there are tons of user speaks different language. we could only allow handful of language boards.

we need more input if any non-english speaker is willing to actually help users.



This is a proposed change in structure accommodating for the above observations:

GENERAL

Version Info         Child boards: Release version, Testing versions
Tips and Tricks
Customisations     Child boards: Icons, Localisation, Skins, TheaterMode, Visualisers
Plugins
MusicBee Wishlist
General Board      Child boards: General discussions, Beyond MusicBee, Screenshot gallery, Rubbish Bin
Polls                    Child boards: Developers polls, General polls

SUPPORT

Questions             Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Tips and Tricks
Developers            Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode
Bug Reports

Few improvement suggestion:
i have divided up the boards much more, also reduced child boards


ANNOUNCEMENT

MusicBee Release
MusicBee Beta

GENERAL

General discussions
Polls                    Child boards: Developers polls, General polls
Tips and Tricks
MusicBee Wishlist
Beyond MusicBee                       Child boards: Screenshot gallery

MUSICBEE ADDONS  (or maybe extensions... :/)

Customisations  Child boards: Icons, Localisation, Skins, TheaterMode, Visualisers
Plugins

SUPPORT

Questions             Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Developers            Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode
Bug Reports
[/quote]

GRAVEYARD

Rubbish Bin


This is a rough sketch.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 01:50:49 PM
Quick response to only 1 and 2:
Rubbish bin is not removed, just relocated under 'general'

I think you misread my intention about google translate.
I meant that google translate currently might be the cause of 'Lost in Translation' in some difficult to understand posts lately.
So having the opportunity to post in your own language, and be answered in that language too might help to avoid that.

We could start out with some language boards such as German, Russian, Japanese, Dutch, Australian, since I think we have some active members from those area's.
There could then maybe be the option to request for a new language to be added by new members, that then to be decided on by moderators?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 02:28:13 PM
And commenting on your rough sketch suggestions:

Adding 'Announcement' is good. That will make it obvious those boards are there only for 'informing the people'.
Not to be contributed or discussed on.

- The childboard 'Screenshot gallery' should not be under 'Beyond MusicBee'. That board is for all stuff that is not directly related to MusicBee. (what headphones do you use, your favorite albums, etc.)

- 'Rubish Bin' gets even more attention when under something like 'Graveyard'. It also might attract vultures.
Lets' put it a level deeper underground ;-)

- To me 'Addons' (as your suggestion is) feels slightly better there than 'extensions', but hey, let's have a poll!
(Oh, wait, Catch22,  we'll have to wait for the new forum to be able to do that)

All these considerations aside, of course it is crucial that you and Steven decide on what is best and doable, also  considering that all links and references between the forum and the new website, and all the wordings and descriptions used should be as streamlined as possible.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 02:41:44 PM
although i don't know if removing rubbish bin is really necessary or not.  :/

Giving the bin some more thought, I believe it was created by Steven for an I think very decent motive; namely that he didn't want to completely delete nonsense (rubbish) postings, but at least give them an (unworthy) second life in the bin.

In my opinion it would be legitimate to completely delete such postings from the forum, memory, and so perhaps also from search engines finding them.
In that case the bin could just be completely removed. But that of course must be Stevens call.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 08, 2015, 02:55:01 PM
I think you misread my intention about google translate.
I meant that google translate currently might be the cause of 'Lost in Translation' in some difficult to understand posts lately.
So having the opportunity to post in your own language, and be answered in that language too might help to avoid that.

We could start out with some language boards such as German, Russian, Japanese, Dutch, Australian, since I think we have some active members from those area's.
There could then maybe be the option to request for a new language to be added by new members, that then to be decided on by moderators?
:O, damn i misunderstood what you said. But yeah, if we have members to help out in language problem, then we can open some boards.

- The childboard 'Screenshot gallery' should not be under 'Beyond MusicBee'. That board is for all stuff that is not directly related to MusicBee. (what headphones do you use, your favorite albums, etc.)
Maybe we could put it under general discussion


- 'Rubish Bin' gets even more attention when under something like 'Graveyard'. It also might attract vultures.
Lets' put it a level deeper underground ;-)
that also works.

- To me 'Addons' (as your suggestion is) feels slightly better there than 'extensions', but hey, let's have a poll!
(Oh, wait, Catch22,  we'll have to wait for the new forum to be able to do that)

All these considerations aside, of course it is crucial that you and Steven decide on what is best and doable, also  considering that all links and references between the forum and the new website, and all the wordings and descriptions used should be as streamlined as possible.
well i am all for new board structure, i am sure steven won't have any problem with this.

there is some extra work will require for steven to do(i have a sollution.... ). for an example. new release announcement for both beta and stable. also updating beta release is a hassle since beta evolves really quickly and almost 1-2 patches everyday. and also the download page also offers beta version. so keeping track of that AND also a discussion thread about the beta....damn it will get hard.

THE SOLUTION! The new admin panel for the will have the ability to update and post in announcement thread and download page in a SINGLE button click! YAY!

thanks to simplemechineforum's extremely simple form database structure, this is possible.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 08, 2015, 03:03:41 PM
Also a BAD news. As the forum is upgrading from 1.1.21 to 2.0.11, i just tested it on my side, while the upgrades work, but the THEME i developed for the demo forum ISN'T COMPATIBLE :(
BUT i am glad that it is MUCH easier to theme the new forum. Only CSS tweaks and some minor and few major changes. I will provide a NEW demo for the new updated forum SOON!

on the other hand, the new forum does not break site integration :) YAY!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 08, 2015, 03:46:20 PM

there is some extra work will require for steven to do(i have a sollution.... ). for an example. new release announcement for both beta and stable. also updating beta release is a hassle since beta evolves really quickly and almost 1-2 patches everyday. and also the download page also offers beta version. so keeping track of that AND also a discussion thread about the beta....damn it will get hard.


In my opinion I don't think the beta version (or 'nightly' as I call it) needs an announcement/notification.
Only a small group of users will be involved in testing, and they will know to check for updates when Steven replies to a bug report.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 04:16:35 PM
In my opinion I don't think the beta version (or 'nightly' as I call it) needs an announcement/notification.
Only a small group of users will be involved in testing, and they will know to check for updates when Steven replies to a bug report.

You are right that there will probably not be (m)any explanatory posts about these 'nightlies'. In that sense your point is a very good one.
Yet I think it would be good to have at least some landing page for these nightlies and beta's on the forum.
At least for the purpose on clarifying what is what, how and when to use what, and where to find it.
Even if only the most recent version identifier and it's date released would be updated and shown there, that would be very useful.

I believe that the way at this moment the different versions, updates, patches, etc. are explained, are still confusing quite some users.

If you agree on all this, would you have another forum board structure proposal for this?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 08, 2015, 04:28:07 PM
I believe that the way at this moment the different versions, updates, patches, etc. are explained, are still confusing quite some users.

Speaking of patches, I wonder if it would be possible to introduce a 'ticket' system to the website, to make bug reporting a bit more efficient. I don't know what would be required in terms of programming, but it's just an idea anyway.

Here's an example of what I mean: https://trac.mpc-hc.org/ticket/2747
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 08, 2015, 06:17:19 PM
i wont agree to a ticketing system as then it becomes a job and not a hobby project
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 08, 2015, 06:47:12 PM
Speaking of patches, I wonder if it would be possible to introduce a 'ticket' system to the website, to make bug reporting a bit more efficient. I don't know what would be required in terms of programming, but it's just an idea anyway.

Here's an example of what I mean: https://trac.mpc-hc.org/ticket/2747

well as steven said:
i wont agree to a ticketing system as then it becomes a job and not a hobby project

Despite that, i did look at trac, bugzilla, and some other bug tracking system. AND i don't like them. they are overly complicated, UGLY!, and i highly doubt most of them will play nice with SMF forum integration(either you need to create another account OR some code tweaking).

BUT i do like github issue tracking system. It is dead simple, beautiful and conversation is forum like structured. BUT it is not open sourced :(

As Steven pointed out managing ticket require some effort, and the current MusicBee site redesign is mainly to reduce effort for both Steven and Addon devs while also reducing effort of new users.

Here is what i think would work:
1. Dead Simple github style issue browsing
2. elegant and easy to use.
3. Forum login integration.
4. Support for issue status such as
                opened
                closed
                planned
                done
5. conversation between users and others.


The main problem is with each opened issue you have to close it(or done) when the issue is fixed. AND THAT IS ONE BIG PROBLEM! you have to keep track or browse through EVERY issue and mark it.


as now if user create a topic on the forum Steven replies to it and if the issue solved it is well else it either get planned for next release or planned for future or addon. BUT steven don't have to reply back WHEN that particular issue is fixed a week/month later. also you don't have to do CLOSE or PLANNED status.


               
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 08, 2015, 06:59:24 PM
One of the reasons MusicBee has became as good as it is, and why this forum functions as well is it does, is that one person (Steven) decides, and makes good judgements on what to address and implement.

What a I often impressed about, is how members seem to understand how this wishing, and bug reporting system works here.
There is a torrent of those, and realistically far too much for one person.

How it seems to work here, is that most of the users understand (and are used to ;-) that they can throw almost anything at Steven, but are wise enough to understand when and why it is not fulfilled, or they don't even get a response.

Introducing a ticket system, in any which form of shape would take away that system and understanding.
So -1 from me.

Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 08, 2015, 07:45:10 PM
One of the reasons MusicBee has became as good as it is, and why this forum functions as well is it does, is that one person (Steven) decides, and makes good judgements on what to address and implement.

Introducing a ticket system, in any which form of shape would take away that system and understanding.
So -1 from me.
I too am against a ticket system and it's mostly a selfish reason.  Steven doesn't want it because this will then feel like a job and not a hobby.  I really, really want Steven to feel good about the work he's doing with MusicBee.  He has stated in the past that once MB starts feeling like a job (or work) he'll likely stop development.  And I would not to see that happen.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 08, 2015, 09:30:45 PM
Here are some typos and my recommended changes based on the Addon Dashboard screenshot.

Addon Submission:
-If your rank is newbie ... to get people's attention

Step 1
-There are several types of Addons you can submit

Step 2
-Instead of "these are not optional" make it "All fields in this section are required" and drop the "you need to fill out everything"
-Short Description
   -Only text and numbers are allowed.
-Supported MB Version
   -Select the supported MusicBee version(s) for your ...
-Tags for your Addon
   -Try to use ONE word for each tag.  Each tag Must USE COMMA as a separator
   -Change You are only limited to use 10 tags maximum to You are limited to 10 tags.  No need to say anything else.

Step 3
-Instead of "these are not optional" make it "Required" and drop the "you need to fill out everything"
-Download link instructions are confusing.  Suggest it be changed to Direct uploads to this site are not supported.  Please use a third-party hosting site, such as MediaFire, ZippyShare, or Mega. Enter the URL here.   (I don't understand what you mean by "Also try to provide a direct download link"  If this refers to the link to the download from the third-party provider, then I don't think it's necessary to say that as this section is already asking for the link.)

The "learn more here" at the end of Step 3, and the "Click here to learn more" at the end of Step 4 should be worded the same.  Doesn't matter which one, but for consistency they should read the same.

There may be others, but that's what I noticed on my first two readings.

-
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 09, 2015, 05:53:34 AM
I too am against a ticket system and it's mostly a selfish reason.  Steven doesn't want it because this will then feel like a job and not a hobby.  I really, really want Steven to feel good about the work he's doing with MusicBee.  He has stated in the past that once MB starts feeling like a job (or work) he'll likely stop development.  And I would not to see that happen.

Fair enough. The casual atmosphere of MusicBee and its forum is the reason many of us are here, and that should continue.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bigmelwalter on December 09, 2015, 06:56:29 AM
It's a unanimous decision then!!!!!

No ticketing system is needed. I agree with Steven.

Just waiting for a new forum update, possibly with a chatbox or some extra visual features.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 07:47:16 AM
It's a unanimous decision then!!!!!

No ticketing system is needed. I agree with Steven.

Just waiting for a new forum update, possibly with a chatbox or some extra visual features.

sorry but no chatbox in the new forum :(
maybe we can open an IRC Chatroom for MusicBee!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 09:14:12 AM
The new Forum theme is almost ready! took me really short time.

i have added some box at the top, they will only show on the forum homepage. This will help forum members to get a glance of the latest musicbee version without going to download page or at the bottom of the page.

(http://i.imgur.com/fWpn4hr.png)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 09:46:56 AM
Great work again AvikB!

I hate to rain on this marvelous party, but I am realizing a very big drawback of this beautiful design concept.
With the current forum landing page, you have a clean overview of all the boards topics in one view. No need for scrolling to find out what other boards there are.besides the ones that are in view initially.

When I was checking out other fora to get some ideas for our new forum, that was also one of the things I felt many fora got wrong.
Many don't have a clean landing page with only, and all the main boards in view. Either there are to many which make it confusing, or as the current concept, you have to do scrolling up and down before you know wich one to choose.

I know the world, and especially tablet and smartphone users have become sort of addicted to scrolling and swiping. It's of course much more functional there, and the experience is kind of 'fun'.

But behind a desktop PC, I feel it should be avoided as much as possible.

Do you think you could do your magic with the great look and feel you are creating already, whilst keeping the practical and good overview the current forum has?

In my opinion the website can have lots of eye-candy (even though I personally would like the home page to be sort of 'spartan'), but the forum I surely would prefer to be as much as possible about the content, without too much visual and interface distractions.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Great work again AvikB!

I hate to rain on this marvelous party, but I am realizing a very big drawback of this beautiful design concept.
With the current forum landing page, you have a clean overview of all the boards topics in one view. No need for scrolling to find out what other boards there are.besides the ones that are in view initially.

When I was checking out other fora to get some ideas for our new forum, that was also one of the things I felt many fora got wrong.
Many don't have a clean landing page with only, and all the main boards in view. Either there are to many which make it confusing, or as the current concept, you have to do scrolling up and down before you know wich one to choose.

I know the world, and especially tablet and smartphone users have become sort of addicted to scrolling and swiping. It's of course much more functional there, and the experience is kind of 'fun'.

But behind a desktop PC, I feel it should be avoided as much as possible.

Do you think you could do your magic with the great look and feel you are creating already, whilst keeping the practical and good overview the current forum has?

In my opinion the website can have lots of eye-candy (even though I personally would like the home page to be sort of 'spartan'), but the forum I surely would prefer to be as much as possible about the content, without too much visual and interface distractions.

Thanks, it is also getting quite bit annoying for me to scroll the forum. :S
I am planning on moving those big boxes to the side (since MOST monitor has wider width then height).
also reducing the spacing a bit. the current one is spaced out too much
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on December 09, 2015, 10:33:17 AM
Glad that you recycled the honeycomb background.  I think it looks great  :)

I assume that clicking on the coloured squares will take you to the appropriate forum section, so a suggestion for a minor layout change.

(http://i.cubeupload.com/0KWZKI.png) (http://i.cubeupload.com/0KWZKI.png)

* Removed the number from 'Latest MusicBee' on blue panel as you have the version number on the there as well
* not sure you would need "Questions" board under Support as most questions get asked (currently) under "General" - unless, of course, you are trying to separate general comments from questions.

EDIT
I have no problem with scrolling with this layout as the most used forum areas are at the top
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 11:05:38 AM
Great work again AvikB!

I hate to rain on this marvelous party, but I am realizing a very big drawback of this beautiful design concept.
With the current forum landing page, you have a clean overview of all the boards topics in one view. No need for scrolling to find out what other boards there are.besides the ones that are in view initially.

When I was checking out other fora to get some ideas for our new forum, that was also one of the things I felt many fora got wrong.
Many don't have a clean landing page with only, and all the main boards in view. Either there are to many which make it confusing, or as the current concept, you have to do scrolling up and down before you know wich one to choose.

o you think you could do your magic with the great look and feel you are creating already, whilst keeping the practical and good overview the current forum has?

Ok, a new update. how about these:

i have reduced those monstrous spacing (reminds me on windows 8 apps :P), and there is a sidebar now. i can put a recent post list there. also some boards needs to get merged, cause even with reducing spacing, there are 4 categories and 12 boards. maybe reducing to 9-10 board should be enough.

(http://i.imgur.com/tmEllnY.png)


Glad that you recycled the honeycomb background.  I think it looks great  :)
Well yeah, thanks for the suggestion you gave me. :) i will also add this honey comb to some other area in future.

I assume that clicking on the coloured squares will take you to the appropriate forum section, so a suggestion for a minor layout change.
* Removed the number from 'Latest MusicBee' on blue panel as you have the version number on the there as well
fixed in the next update.

* not sure you would need "Questions" board under Support as most questions get asked (currently) under "General" - unless, of course, you are trying to separate general comments from questions.
Yes, question will have a separate section. as right now, almost EVERYTHING from site update announcement to discussion to asking question is done in ONE thread. and it is a mess. thats why a question board is needed. General area will be used for discussion and other stuff.

EDIT
I have no problem with scrolling with this layout as the most used forum areas are at the top
the problem would be for people with resolution like 1366x768 or lower. Higher resolution like 2k or 4k monitor and MAYBE FullHD monitor should be able to handle most of it
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on December 09, 2015, 11:19:56 AM
I prefer the other layout (or my rearrangement of it) with the coloured boxes across the top.
If clicking on those boxes does quickly scroll the page to right section of the forum, then the manual scrolling issue would be minimized.

EDIT
I have no problem with scrolling with this layout as the most used forum areas are at the top
the problem would be for people with resolution like 1366x768 or lower. Higher resolution like 2k or 4k monitor and MAYBE FullHD monitor should be able to handle most of it

I'm using only 1920 x 1080 and I use sizer so I've only got the page open to 80% of the screen, and still looks good to me.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 11:37:26 AM
I prefer the other layout (or my rearrangement of it) with the coloured boxes across the top.
If clicking on those boxes does quickly scroll the page to right section of the forum, then the manual scrolling issue would be minimized.

EDIT
I have no problem with scrolling with this layout as the most used forum areas are at the top
the problem would be for people with resolution like 1366x768 or lower. Higher resolution like 2k or 4k monitor and MAYBE FullHD monitor should be able to handle most of it

I'm using only 1920 x 1080 and I use sizer so I've only got the page open to 80% of the screen, and still looks good to me.
i do prefer the boxes on the top. But they don't scroll to the specific thread. they redirect to download page, addons page and support page.

But i am confused about the layout myself.  Should i use sidebar! or put them on top or provide a option to hide them!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 12:05:03 PM
ok so i decided to put those box at the top AGAIN! :S
but also removed the scrolling issue by making two board a child board.

here is how it looks in fullHD. the whole forum is visible. Now the developer board is a child of question board, since it is for developers to ask question. Also poll is a child of general discussion, since i highly doubt we need a separate board just for polling.

(http://i.imgur.com/hEuMbFO.jpg)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 01:24:44 PM
I am still trying to comprehend the tighter integration between forum and website. So it could well be I am making some wrong assumptions here,

When I look at this screenshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/qsLMo1Ql.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/qsLMo1Q.png)

Aren't the large buttons more suited for the website, and not for the forum?
If you opened the forum page, there are already boards called "latest version", "Questions" etc.
I am a bit confused what these large buttons would add to that specific forum page.

About the top-bar. Is it intended to be similar looking, whether you are on the website, or at the forum?
Not having a strong opinion on that, but if so, maybe it could be made slightly clearer where you are at that moment.
Either by having a slightly different color design, or maybe by having the tab 'FORUM' highlighted when you are on the forum.

And about the 'HOME' button at the top. When you are navigating the forum, is that supposed to take you to the main forum page, or to the main web page?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 02:05:24 PM
I am still trying to comprehend the tighter integration between forum and website. So it could well be I am making some wrong assumptions here,

When I look at this screenshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/qsLMo1Ql.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/qsLMo1Q.png)
Weird, will test it more, also i will update the demo forum so that we can get a better understanding.


Aren't the large buttons more suited for the website, and not for the forum?
If you opened the forum page, there are already boards called "latest version", "Questions" etc.
I am a bit confused what these large buttons would add to that specific forum page.
I am trying to not only integrate the function, but the look as well. Also yes, the latest version board is still there, but this should take the user directly to the download page, instead of opening the board then opening the latest topic THEN scroll to the bottom to see the latest update.

Providing the latest version info at the top means you can quickly check if your musicbee is updated or not, instead of either scroll to bottom or going to download page.

Also the second box is much more of a reminder to new user for addons, you can call it Promotion AD(:{)

the third box is something special which is COMING SOON! you guys(or maybe gals) will LOVE it :)

About the top-bar. Is it intended to be similar looking, whether you are on the website, or at the forum?
Not having a strong opinion on that, but if so, maybe it could be made slightly clearer where you are at that moment.
Either by having a slightly different color design, or maybe by having the tab 'FORUM' highlighted when you are on the forum.
I think it is pretty clear where you are, BUT menu highlighting is COMING(i have planned this already :) )

And about the 'HOME' button at the top. When you are navigating the forum, is that supposed to take you to the main forum page, or to the main web page?
YES, with smf version 2.0.11, they changed the forum navigation system! so i still haven't figure out a way to rename it to forum home, like i did with the previous one :S
i will look into it in FUTURE!


ALSO, as for the concern of that big boxes at the top, i will include a button to hide it :)
it will use cookies to store the preference and stay hidden when the next time you open the browser.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 09, 2015, 02:08:43 PM
i like the idea of having something like the boxes that highlight content, especially the "Get Latest Version" one because of the surprising number of times people seem to have difficulty finding it in the current forum layout
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 02:15:30 PM
i like the idea of having something like the boxes that highlight content, especially the "Get Latest Version" one because of the surprising number of times people seem to have difficulty finding it in the current forum layout

Also it is automated, so no HTML EDITING ;) all controlled through the admin panel.
BUT for those who don't wan't those boxes or prefer only forum layout, there will be a option to hide them, or show them when needed!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 02:29:10 PM
i like the idea of having something like the boxes that highlight content, especially the "Get Latest Version" one because of the surprising number of times people seem to have difficulty finding it in the current forum layout

That could certainly serve a good purpose. But than that box could be very specific (and a bit smaller) saying something like: "download the latest nightly build", with some brief explanatory text as what it is, and how to install it.
For the other two boxes I personally don't see added value (at that location)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 02:38:44 PM
That could certainly serve a good purpose. But than that box could be very specific (and a bit smaller) saying something like: "download the latest nightly build", with some brief explanatory text as what it is, and how to install it.
For the other two boxes I personally don't see added value (at that location)

The third one is link to faq and documentation, often new users may found that useful for finding answered question and HOW TOs and tips and tricks.

the second one is for new users that may or may not NOTICED that we have a addon section or EVEN anyone can submit them. It is mainly as a reminder and a useful notice to new user.

Also Don't worry, you will be able to hide them, if you prefer clean forum interface
it is mainly geared toward new users who PROBABLY didn't notice those things.

Also the latest box will take a user to the download page, there he can get EITHER STABLE or BETA.
i didn't put beta info there, because beta user MOST LIKELY to follow steven's discussion forum.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 02:55:03 PM
The third one is link to faq and documentation, often new users may found that useful for finding answered question and HOW TOs and tips and tricks.

You are right, that is useful.

Quote
The second one is for new users that may or may not NOTICED that we have a addon section or EVEN anyone can submit them. It is mainly as a reminder and a useful notice to new user.

You are right, that can be useful.
What confused me a little bit is that it combines 'get addons' and 'submit addons', and I was not sure where that would take you.
But I am confident you are a man with a plan on that.

Quote
Also Don't worry, you will be able to hide them, if you prefer clean forum interface[/size]
it is mainly geared toward new users who PROBABLY didn't notice those things.

Optionally hiding them is great. But the button to download the latest nightly version in my opinion would best be sticky and fixed, since it is probably useful for almost everybody.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 03:06:42 PM
You are right, that can be useful.
What confused me a little bit is that it combines 'get addons' and 'submit addons', and I was not sure where that would take you.
But I am confident you are a man with a plan on that.
Whenever you hover over that box, you will get two button saying Browser Addons and Submit Addons

Optionally hiding them is great. But the button to download the latest nightly version in my opinion would best be sticky and fixed, since it is probably useful for almost everybody.

Well i guess i don't need the hide option then. and thanks for the suggestion, i will show the beta version there too.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 03:10:34 PM
I digested all input and suggestions, reshuffled it, and present what I think is getting pretty close to a great forum structure.
Input please?  


ANNOUNCEMENT

MusicBee Release               information on the latest official release version
MusicBee Pre-Release         the latest 'nightly' and pre-release versions


GENERAL

Tips and Tricks
General Discussions            Child boards: Discussing MusicBee, Polls
MusicBee Wishlist


MUSICBEE ADDONS

Customisations                  Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins


SUPPORT

Questions                         Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports
Developers                       Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode


BEYOND MUSICBEE          Child boards:Related Interests, Rubbish Bin



Edit,
If there is not much enthusiasm about a foreign language board (it was only a suggestion from me I don't care about very strongly), support would just be be:

SUPPORT

Questions
Bug Reports
Developers                       Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 03:22:29 PM
I digested all input and suggestions, reshuffled it, and present what I think is getting pretty close to a great forum structure.
Input please? 


ANNOUNCEMENT

MusicBee Release               information on the latest official release version
MusicBee Pre-Release         the latest 'nightly' and pre-release versions


GENERAL

Tips and Tricks
General Discussions            Child boards: Discussing MusicBee, Polls
MusicBee Wishlist


MUSICBEE ADDONS

Customisations                  Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins


SUPPORT

Questions                         Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports
Developers                       Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode


BEYOND MUSICBEE          Child boards:Related Interests, Rubbish Bin

is BEYOND MUSICBEE  a category? )

while i like it, REMEMBER 5 Category and 10 board will not fit into the view and you have to scroll a bit.
try to use 4 category and
board number <= 10 (less than equal)

Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 09, 2015, 03:29:01 PM
@hiccup,
can you give some examples of what would go in General Discussions
and how do you see it differing from Beyond MusicBee and Support/ Questions ?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 09, 2015, 03:35:53 PM
You are right, that can be useful.
What confused me a little bit is that it combines 'get addons' and 'submit addons', and I was not sure where that would take you.
But I am confident you are a man with a plan on that.
Whenever you hover over that box, you will get two button saying Browser Addons and Submit Addons
By "Browser Addons" do you really mean "Browse Addons"?  As in giving the user the opportunity to look for addons?  Or are there going to be addons for a browser?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 03:39:01 PM
@hiccup,
can you give some examples of what would go in General Discussions
and how do you see it differing from Beyond MusicBee and Support/ Questions ?

Currently we have 'general', which says "Got a question or comment?"

I thought to split questions and comments up, so 'Questions' under 'Support' will obviously be for questions only, and stuff such as "Official MB appreciation thread", announcements from members such as psychoadept introducing the wikia, and the topic we are actually in right now would go to 'General discussions'.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 09, 2015, 03:45:07 PM
Currently we have 'general', which says "Got a question or comment?"

I thought to split questions and comments up, so 'Questions' under 'Support' will obviously be for questions only, and stuff such as "Official MB appreciation thread" and the topic we are actually in right now would go to 'General discussions'.

My two cents - I feel like General Discussion and Questions are too closely related to split off into separate boards.
The same goes for Developers and Questions in the support section. The fewer boards the forum has, the less confusion.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: psychoadept on December 09, 2015, 03:52:44 PM
Currently we have 'general', which says "Got a question or comment?"

I thought to split questions and comments up, so 'Questions' under 'Support' will obviously be for questions only, and stuff such as "Official MB appreciation thread" and the topic we are actually in right now would go to 'General discussions'.

My two cents - I feel like General Discussion and Questions are too closely related to split off into separate boards.
The same goes for Developers and Questions in the support section. The fewer boards the forum has, the less confusion.

I agree.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 09, 2015, 03:55:11 PM
Currently we have 'general', which says "Got a question or comment?"

I thought to split questions and comments up, so 'Questions' under 'Support' will obviously be for questions only, and stuff such as "Official MB appreciation thread" and the topic we are actually in right now would go to 'General discussions'.

My two cents - I feel like General Discussion and Questions are too closely related to split off into separate boards.
The same goes for Developers and Questions in the support section. The fewer boards the forum has, the less confusion.

I agree.
+1
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 09, 2015, 03:55:32 PM
I have some concerns about the use of the expression "nightly builds."  Firefox and others issue nightly builds.  MusicBee does not.  When Steven's on a roll we might get weekly builds.  I think something along the lines of "latest beta" or "latest patch" would be better.

I also think the content of the green box at top needs to be reworded.
The headline should just be "Addons"
The body should read "We have a nice collection of skins and plugins. You can also submit your own addon here."

Lastly, for the time being, you have a comment on the screenshot that "This is how it should look in full HD."  Not everyone has an HD monitor.  How will it look in non-HD? It should be programmed for the lowest common denominator.  It's one thing to create a site that has the latest and greatest coding tricks, but if it doesn't render properly for the average user, they're going to get frustrated.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 04:00:28 PM
My two cents - I feel like General Discussion and Questions are too closely related to split off into separate boards.
The same goes for Developers and Questions in the support section. The fewer boards the forum has, the less confusion.

Fair enough, but I disagree on both.

Discussing a new forum, the appreciation thread, psychoadept introducing MusicBee's wikia, are all not questions, and should not be located there. (I'm sure I could find many more examples if I made a little effort)

The developers board is (besides a place for questions indeed) also a gathering place for members working on plugins, skins, api's etc.
I believe it is perfectly legitimate to have a dedicated board for that, also separating 'Developers issues and questions' from 'Users issues and questions'.

Also, it is the current situation.
There have never been complaints about that, and it will also make transferring the old forum to the new one a bit easier.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 04:01:25 PM
Whenever you hover over that box, you will get two button saying Browser Addons and Submit Addons
By "Browser Addons" do you really mean "Browse Addons"?  As in giving the user the opportunity to look for addons?  Or are there going to be addons for a browser?
[/quote]

 ;D made a mistake  :P
user will be able to browse addons not browser addon  ::)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
I have some concerns about the use of the expression "nightly builds."  Firefox and others issue nightly builds.  MusicBee does not.  When Steven's on a roll we might get weekly builds.  I think something along the lines of "latest beta" or "latest patch" would be better.
Don't worry it will be called MusicBee Beta, not nightly, and yes, i will look into that matter. I did consider the availability of beta releases, since steven won't deliver beta every week like now. I am planning to add some beta info into that Get MusicBee box.

I also think the content of the green box at top needs to be reworded.
The headline should just be "Addons"
The body should read "We have a nice collection of skins and plugins. You can also submit your own addon here."
I don't like the headline, it's too..... ... short! a bit long needed. I do like the body content, the change is planned for the body content :)

Lastly, for the time being, you have a comment on the screenshot that "This is how it should look in full HD."  Not everyone has an HD monitor.  How will it look in non-HD? It should be programmed for the lowest common denominator.  It's one thing to create a site that has the latest and greatest coding tricks, but if it doesn't render properly for the average user, they're going to get frustrated.

i test all my work in tablet resolution(1024x768 and lower) :)
except for the menu at the top, most of the pages should adopt nicely to mobile too.  I am not too concerned about the forum being on mobile devices. The current smf forum is not built for mobile in mind. Only the MAIN WEBSITE is going to support RESPONSIVE DESIGN.

Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 04:15:26 PM
I have some concerns about the use of the expression "nightly builds."  Firefox and others issue nightly builds.  MusicBee does not.  When Steven's on a roll we might get weekly builds.  I think something along the lines of "latest beta" or "latest patch" would be better.

I believe we are all mainly throwing ideas up here, and probably sometimes a bit in a mist in searching the right wordings and structures.
It certainly helps when Steven gives a thumbs up or a thumbs down on suggestions once in a while, so we know better how to proceed and optimize further contributions.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
Currently we have 'general', which says "Got a question or comment?"

I thought to split questions and comments up, so 'Questions' under 'Support' will obviously be for questions only, and stuff such as "Official MB appreciation thread" and the topic we are actually in right now would go to 'General discussions'.

My two cents - I feel like General Discussion and Questions are too closely related to split off into separate boards.
The same goes for Developers and Questions in the support section. The fewer boards the forum has, the less confusion.

Not necessarily, I like the idea of splitting Questions and General.
General Should be USED ONLY for general DISCUSSION not question.

Here is my reasons.
Keeping the technical stuff or issues in question board will make the forum better organized. Currently DISCUSSION and TECHNICAL STUFF is in one place. it is hard to tell if someone is looking for help or proposing a discussion (maybe reading the title might make that clear, but...), while discussion tends to last long but question tends to be short.

Also maybe a discussion will get buried quickly if too many questions are being asked(since question will get solved quickly). And lately the number of questions and issues are rising so it is needed to organize.


Here is the proposal:
1. Use Question for ONLY SOLVING TECHNICAL ISSUE AND HELP.
2. General will be USED ONLY for general DISCUSSION not question, discussion like: MusicBee New Feature, New Changes, Future of MusicBee, Website Changes, Wiki ....
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 04:34:54 PM
is BEYOND MUSICBEE  a category? )
while i like it, REMEMBER 5 Category and 10 board will not fit into the view and you have to scroll a bit.
try to use 4 category and
board number <= 10 (less than equal)

In that case 'Beyond MusicBee' could the go under 'General'.
Would this work/fit?


ANNOUNCEMENT

MusicBee Release information on the latest official release version
MusicBee Pre-Release the latest 'nightly' and pre-release versions

GENERAL

Tips and Tricks
General Discussions      Child boards: Discussing MusicBee, Polls
MusicBee Wishlist
Beyond musicBee         Child boards: Related Interests, Rubbish Bin

MUSICBEE ADDONS
Customisations            Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins

SUPPORT

Questions                   Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports
Developers                 Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 04:41:13 PM
Or, locate your 'Announcement' suggestion under 'general'.


GENERAL

Announcements             Child boards: MusicBee Release, MusicBee Pre-Release
Tips and Tricks
General Discussions       Child boards: Discussing MusicBee, Polls
MusicBee Wishlist
Beyond musicBee           Child boards: Related Interests, Rubbish Bin

MUSICBEE ADDONS
Customisations              Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins

SUPPORT

Questions                   Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports
Developers                 Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode


edit
'Tips and Tricks' could also go under 'Support', I have no strong opinion on that.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 09, 2015, 04:49:38 PM
Or, locate your 'Announcement' suggestion under 'general'.


GENERAL

Announcements             Child boards: MusicBee Release, MusicBee Pre-Release
Tips and Tricks
General Discussions       Child boards: Discussing MusicBee, Polls
MusicBee Wishlist
Beyond musicBee           Child boards: Related Interests, Rubbish Bin

MUSICBEE ADDONS
Customisations              Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins

SUPPORT

Questions                   Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports
Developers                 Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode

That looks good to me.

Only thing I would change is to make 'Skins' its own board rather than a child, since it will probably get as much traffic as 'Plugins'.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 05:02:34 PM
That looks good to me.
Only thing I would change is to make 'Skins' its own board rather than a child, since it will probably get as much traffic as 'Plugins'.

That will probably make it impossible to fit everything on one page, but let's wait what AvikB comes up with.

But also, in my opinion it should not be too relevant what child boards are, or will perhaps be more popular than other child boards.
Most important is that the structure is as logical and simple as possible. Removing 'skins' from 'customization' would probably not be an improvement on that.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 05:17:56 PM
I have some concerns about the use of the expression "nightly builds."  Firefox and others issue nightly builds.  MusicBee does not.  When Steven's on a roll we might get weekly builds.  I think something along the lines of "latest beta" or "latest patch" would be better.

I believe we are all mainly throwing ideas up here, and probably sometimes a bit in a mist in searching the right wordings and structures.
It certainly helps when Steven gives a thumbs up or a thumbs down on suggestions once in a while, so we know better how to proceed and optimize further contributions.

Well i don't think we need to ask steven for this minor description changes since he already liked the boxes above. But yeah we are all throwing ideas to see what sticks! :P

Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 09, 2015, 05:38:13 PM
I have some concerns about the use of the expression "nightly builds."  Firefox and others issue nightly builds.  MusicBee does not.  When Steven's on a roll we might get weekly builds.  I think something along the lines of "latest beta" or "latest patch" would be better.
Don't worry it will be called MusicBee Beta, not nightly, and yes, i will look into that matter. I did consider the availability of beta releases, since steven won't deliver beta every week like now. I am planning to add some beta info into that Get MusicBee box.

I also think the content of the green box at top needs to be reworded.
The headline should just be "Addons"
The body should read "We have a nice collection of skins and plugins. You can also submit your own addon here."
I don't like the headline, it's too..... ... short! a bit long needed. I do like the body content, the change is planned for the body content :)
Short is good.  There's an expression that goes something like this:  Keep it simple.  Why use five words when one will do?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 05:55:56 PM
Don't worry it will be called MusicBee Beta, not nightly, and yes, i will look into that matter. I did consider the availability of beta releases, since steven won't deliver beta every week like now. I am planning to add some beta info into that Get MusicBee box.

I can't recall Steven often using specific terms as alpha, beta, nightly, pre-release etc.
That is completely his call of course, and he will surely have his reasons for that, but if we want to get this matter streamlined and organised, it would be very helpful to be able to decide on some consistent terminology here.

I wouldn't mind if alpha, nightly, latest release or pre-release would be the 'correct' wordings.
I would also be o.k. to call it something like 'BlackBee release', RedBee release', 'BabyBee' or whatever, but let's try to decide on something?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 05:56:43 PM
Or, locate your 'Announcement' suggestion under 'general'.


GENERAL

Announcements             Child boards: MusicBee Release, MusicBee Pre-Release
Tips and Tricks
General Discussions       Child boards: Discussing MusicBee, Polls
MusicBee Wishlist
Beyond musicBee           Child boards: Related Interests, Rubbish Bin

MUSICBEE ADDONS
Customisations              Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins

SUPPORT

Questions                   Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports
Developers                 Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode


edit
'Tips and Tricks' could also go under 'Support', I have no strong opinion on that.

I like this :)

also since child boards are quite easy to miss for new user here what i have done, also some popular boards or boards that user might like will show as suggestion at the top. it is more like a quick access. It will show throughout the forum btw.

(http://i.imgur.com/dNOKoz6.jpg)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 05:59:48 PM
Short is good.  There's an expression that goes something like this:  Keep it simple.  Why use five words when one will do?

There is already Addons on the menu, if user MISS THAT or probably never used it, thats why those colorful box and a nice heading to have their attention
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 06:04:19 PM
I can't recall Steven often using specific terms as alpha, beta, nightly, pre-release etc.
That is completely his call of course, and he will surely have his reasons for that, but if we want to get this matter streamlined and organised, it would be very helpful to be able to decide on some consistent terminology here.

I wouldn't mind if alpha, nightly, latest release or pre-release would be the 'correct' wordings.
I would also be o.k. to call it something like 'BlackBee release', RedBee release', 'BabyBee' or whatever, but let's try to decide on something?

Bbb...bbut if you call them anything else than beta then.... .. ...i used beta all over the place :O

(http://i.imgur.com/s5TDTTd.jpg)

Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 06:06:46 PM
Bbb...bbut if you call them anything else than beta then....

And.... we have one vote for:   BaByBee!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 06:09:58 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/s5TDTTd.jpg)

I recall Steven being sympathetic to a suggestion of having only one installer providing a choice to install 'full' or 'portable'.
If that is going to happen, you'll have to adjust accordingly.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 06:23:18 PM
I recall Steven being sympathetic to a suggestion of having only one installer providing a choice to install 'full' or 'portable'.
If that is going to happen, you'll have to adjust accordingly.

That would be really nice. Well i will ask him, if he will introduce a single installer or not. I have to remove or add few things in download page then.


also can you make something clear for me:
1. since patches are incremental ONLY, are those patches the same for the portable installer! Do i need to provide a download link for the patches in the download page?
2. Does steven offers full patched version(installer with all musicbee files, PATCHED)? or just incremental patched files?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 09, 2015, 06:28:28 PM
dont assume i will make a single installer - i probably will but it wouldnt be until some time early next year

for the releases
- there is a frequent patch zip file thats uploaded to the same location to fix bugs or sometimes introduce new features
- when the beta cycle starts, i create an installer for the incremental (changed) files only ie. it assumes you have the last stable version already installed
- at the end of the beta cycle, a release candidate installer is created that installs everything
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 06:32:33 PM
dont assume i will make a single installer - i probably will but it wouldnt be until some time early next year

for the releases
- there is a frequent patch zip file thats uploaded to the same location to fix bugs or sometimes introduce new features
- when the beta cycle starts, i create an installer for the incremental (changed) files only ie. it assumes you have the last stable version already installed
- at the end of the beta cycle, a release candidate installer is created that installs everything


Thanks for clearing that up. Can you suggest what download options should i include?
For the Beta i will change the download button name to reflect the "incremental change".
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 06:38:05 PM
Bbb...bbut if you call them anything else than beta then....

And.... we have one vote for:   BaByBee!
lol, i like it :)
also a good news for you.
With some latest modification the new site will load those EDGY fonts instantly.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 06:50:28 PM
With some latest modification the new site will load those EDGY fonts instantly.

Nice, thank you!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 07:03:48 PM
also since child boards are quite easy to miss for new user here what i have done, also some popular boards or boards that user might like will show as suggestion at the top. it is more like a quick access. It will show throughout the forum btw.

That's a good observation.
That has been in my subconscious too.
Looking at the current forum with my EDGY fonts, the italic child boards are not really jumping off the screen.
A different font or some highlighting color would probably already do some wonders there.

(http://i.imgur.com/4zq5Wx7l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4zq5Wx7.png)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 08:04:50 PM
for the releases:

Trying to categorize and explain these three to users, AvikB, and myself, would below suggestions work and be factual correct?
The question marks at the bottom yet need to be filled in.

Quote
- there is a frequent patch zip file thats uploaded to the same location to fix bugs or sometimes introduce new features

name:
nightly patch

why:
to patch recently found issues

how:
download, extract files, copy and overwrite existing files in the existing installation folder

effects on present configuration and settings:
none

requisite:
a stable version must be installed


Quote
- when the beta cycle starts, i create an installer for the incremental (changed) files only ie. it assumes you have the last stable version already installed
name:
beta installer

why:
to install a new beta version of MusicBee over an existing stable version

how:
download, extract, execute the installer

effects on present configuration and settings:
none (CONFIRM?)

requisite:
a stable version must be installed

Quote
- at the end of the beta cycle, a release candidate installer is created that installs everything

name:
release candidate

why:
to do a clean install of a MusicBee release candidate

how:
download, extract, execute the installer

effects on present configuration and settings:
?

requisites:
?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 09, 2015, 08:37:52 PM
for the releases:

Trying to categorize and explain these three to users, AvikB, and myself, would below suggestions work and be factual correct?
The question marks at the bottom yet need to be filled in.

Quote
- there is a frequent patch zip file thats uploaded to the same location to fix bugs or sometimes introduce new features

name:
nightly patch

why:
to patch recently found issues

how:
download, extract files, copy and overwrite existing files in the existing installation folder

effects on present configuration and settings:
none

requisite:
a stable version must be installed


Quote
- when the beta cycle starts, i create an installer for the incremental (changed) files only ie. it assumes you have the last stable version already installed
name:
beta installer

why:
to install a new beta version of MusicBee over an existing stable version

how:
download, extract, execute the installer

effects on present configuration and settings:
none (CONFIRM?)

requisite:
a stable version must be installed

Quote
- at the end of the beta cycle, a release candidate installer is created that installs everything

name:
release candidate

why:
to do a clean install of a MusicBee release candidate

how:
download, extract, execute the installer

effects on present configuration and settings:
?

requisites:
?

Nice! will read it tomorrow, getting really late for my sleep :)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 09, 2015, 08:55:15 PM
Nice! will read it tomorrow, getting really late for my sleep :)

Sleep well. Notice there are actually two 'nightly patches'.
A 'nightly patch for stable release' and a 'nightly patch for beta'. (or alpha, or demo)

Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bigmelwalter on December 09, 2015, 10:27:55 PM
Getting my hopes up!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 06:17:33 AM
That's a good observation.
That has been in my subconscious too.
Looking at the current forum with my EDGY fonts, the italic child boards are not really jumping off the screen.
A different font or some highlighting color would probably already do some wonders there.

(http://i.imgur.com/4zq5Wx7l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4zq5Wx7.png)

the new forum will ditch those italic styles as well as bold. instead it will be inside those rounded boxes, as shown in the screenshots.

for the releases:

Trying to categorize and explain these three to users, AvikB, and myself, would below suggestions work and be factual correct?
The question marks at the bottom yet need to be filled in.

Quote
- there is a frequent patch zip file thats uploaded to the same location to fix bugs or sometimes introduce new features

name:
nightly patch

why:
to patch recently found issues

how:
download, extract files, copy and overwrite existing files in the existing installation folder

effects on present configuration and settings:
none

requisite:
a stable version must be installed


Quote
- when the beta cycle starts, i create an installer for the incremental (changed) files only ie. it assumes you have the last stable version already installed
name:
beta installer

why:
to install a new beta version of MusicBee over an existing stable version

how:
download, extract, execute the installer

effects on present configuration and settings:
none (CONFIRM?)

requisite:
a stable version must be installed

Quote
- at the end of the beta cycle, a release candidate installer is created that installs everything

name:
release candidate

why:
to do a clean install of a MusicBee release candidate

how:
download, extract, execute the installer

effects on present configuration and settings:
?

requisites:
?

One thing that concern me is the nightly patch, is these patch safe for the user? or should they wait till Steven releases the patch including the full installer?

i am not to keen on adding a patch section. This will require Steven to update that whenever a new patch is released, which is quite often.

and when a some patches are tested and stable enough they released as MusicBee x Update 1.
So there really may not be much of a point of including a download patch button.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 06:22:25 AM
Getting my hopes up!

Keep your hopes UP! the best is yet to come :)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 08:08:10 AM
Trying to categorize and explain these three to users, AvikB, and myself, would below suggestions work and be factual correct?
The question marks at the bottom yet need to be filled in.

Quote
- there is a frequent patch zip file thats uploaded to the same location to fix bugs or sometimes introduce new features

name:
nightly patch

why:
to patch recently found issues

how:
download, extract files, copy and overwrite existing files in the existing installation folder

effects on present configuration and settings:
none

requisite:
a stable version must be installed

etc.etc.


One thing that concern me is the nightly patch, is these patch safe for the user? or should they wait till Steven releases the patch including the full installer?

i am not to keen on adding a patch section. This will require Steven to update that whenever a new patch is released, which is quite often.

and when a some patches are tested and stable enough they released as MusicBee x Update 1.
So there really may not be much of a point of including a download patch button.

This posting of mine was only intended to try and help to get some explanatory overview of the kinds of MusicBee downloads there are or will be.
And trying to decide on some uniform naming, and explanatory texts on them. Not suggesting (at this moment) where they are to be located on forum/website.

I am only throwing this up for those reasons.
It is up to Steven if he feels like working with such a proposal, and up to you and him where and how to use that. But I am sensing (but I could be wrong) that Steven is a little bit reluctant to be fit in such a kind of harness.
I will stay out of this subject until it seems new input or ideas are welcomed.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 10, 2015, 12:09:54 PM
i think the downloads page should only be linking to the stable release and the latest beta which will both have an installer.
for the very latest version thats updated almost daily, it will never have an installer and is only really needed by people who have reported bugs or who follow the forum and want to try out the very latest feature.
I guess there could be something on the forum page to get the daily one as that will be useful rather than having to provide instructions to new users every time, but the wording shouldnt make any promises about it being daily/ nightly and make the install instructions clear that there is no installer.

V3 has been done differently to the usual case because it was such a major rewrite and i cant imagine ever doing that again.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Ansem on December 10, 2015, 02:30:48 PM
This sites is really fantasic! I love it!
I found a little typo into download page: it say that the last versione is 2.5.5809, but even after that i download it, on musicbee it say that i have the 5804 version.
Also a question: what does it mean that is compatible with groove? O_o
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
i think the downloads page should only be linking to the stable release and the latest beta which will both have an installer.
for the very latest version thats updated almost daily, it will never have an installer and is only really needed by people who have reported bugs or who follow the forum and want to try out the very latest feature.
I guess there could be something on the forum page to get the daily one as that will be useful rather than having to provide instructions to new users every time, but the wording shouldnt make any promises about it being daily/ nightly and make the install instructions clear that there is no installer.

V3 has been done differently to the usual case because it was such a major rewrite and i cant imagine ever doing that again.

I will add a new option for you to add/update beta forum link in the beta download section. Also you will be able to add and edit notes of being the need of full installer.

the only thing that is gonna be written there hard coded is a warning of BETA(as it is right now), you will be able to add extra notes. This will give you the flexibility of updating the warning note or maybe a short installation note, if in future something major changes.

Also DO YOU THINK the download page layout is pretty much final? Functionality may change but if the layout is final i will put it in Beta Phase and make final touches and Phred will be able to correct mistakes or change wording.

here is the latest download page screenshot:

(http://i.imgur.com/u0rhM3K.jpg)

I believe the page is fully done. Most functionality is in place, i will add the existing ones as i am updating how admin panel works. BUT THE LAYOUT IS PRETTY MUCH FINAL.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 03:04:48 PM
This sites is really fantasic! I love it!
I found a little typo into download page: it say that the last versione is 2.5.5809, but even after that i download it, on musicbee it say that i have the 5804 version.
Also a question: what does it mean that is compatible with groove? O_o

Thats not a typo, ;) i was just testing the new admin panel(mainly playing around) which can make those version and download link update dynamic, means steven would be able to do it without editing html file.

The site is not final so some information may look outdated, but they will get updated regularly once we release it.


The new MusicBee 3 support groove music market place. Go to Music Explorer and there you will be able to browser groove.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on December 10, 2015, 03:16:48 PM
I guess there could be something on the forum page to get the daily one as that will be useful rather than having to provide instructions to new users every time, but the wording shouldnt make any promises about it being daily/ nightly and make the install instructions clear that there is no installer.

Please do.  A brief description would be most welcome.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Ansem on December 10, 2015, 03:33:54 PM
This sites is really fantasic! I love it!
I found a little typo into download page: it say that the last versione is 2.5.5809, but even after that i download it, on musicbee it say that i have the 5804 version.
Also a question: what does it mean that is compatible with groove? O_o

Thats not a typo, ;) i was just testing the new admin panel(mainly playing around) which can make those version and download link update dynamic, means steven would be able to do it without editing html file.

The site is not final so some information may look outdated, but they will get updated regularly once we release it.


The new MusicBee 3 support groove music market place. Go to Music Explorer and there you will be able to browser groove.
thanks you! I'm not following that much about the new MB3, so I didn't knew about it!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 04:41:19 PM
The download page is looking better and better!

But please allow me to spread some rain again ;-)

Under 'Download MusicBee' it currently says
"We hope you'll enjoy your music experience with MusicBee!"

That sounds slightly weak, maybe better:
"Start enjoying your music experience with MusicBee!"


Under 'Installer Edition'
There is some explanation about possible traces of leftovers. I would not put that text there. That will be taken by many as an alarming thing and might make people uncertain and starting asking lots of questions: "if it's safe?"

Under 'Portable edition' it mentions USB drives, but not that you can also install it on your desktop, on another partition, etc.

I would suggest to keep these two short and simple:

Installer Edition
This version will install MusicBee on your Windows system drive

Portable Edition
This version can be installed on other locations, such as another partition, or a USB drive.

It might be good to add a link such as: "which version to choose", explaining the differences between installer en portable in more detail.
That will also help to prevent the often recurring question on the forum about that.


The MusicBee Beta bar at the bottom is very prominent, and has a different layout and structure than the Installer and Portable edition which most new users will want to download.
And there is a large exclamation mark. Which is good, but adding that on the primary download page might add to possible alarming feelings with new users coming there.

Wouldn't it be better for the Beta version to have a similar large button as the Installer and Portable editions, with the text 'MusicBee Beta', and instead of 'start download', only say "go to the Beta page".

In that way the main download page will look a lot cleaner, and on the dedicated Beta page there will be more opportunity to explain Beta better.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 05:31:40 PM
blablabla

And, if I understand correctly, there are not going to be items as alpha, nightly, pre-release, etc.

So we keep having the already familiar 'latest patch'.
Shouldn't that be on the download page too then?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 06:19:35 PM
Under 'Download MusicBee' it currently says
"We hope you'll enjoy your music experience with MusicBee!"

That sounds slightly weak, maybe better:
"Start enjoying your music experience with MusicBee!"


Under 'Installer Edition'
There is some explanation about possible traces of leftovers. I would not put that text there. That will be taken by many as an alarming thing and might make people uncertain and starting asking lots of questions: "if it's safe?"

Under 'Portable edition' it mentions USB drives, but not that you can also install it on your desktop, on another partition, etc.

I would suggest to keep these two short and simple:

Installer Edition
This version will install MusicBee on your Windows system drive

Portable Edition
This version can be installed on other locations, such as another partition, or a USB drive.

It might be good to add a link such as: "which version to choose", explaining the differences between installer en portable in more detail.
That will also help to prevent the often recurring question on the forum about that.
Yes to all of the above!! Especially the "might be some leftovers..."  That line should go.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 10, 2015, 06:32:16 PM
So we keep having the already familiar 'latest patch'.
Shouldn't that be on the download page too then?
i would rather not have it on the downloads page because (a) there is no installer; (b) its really only intended to address specific bugs or introduce a new feature to people who follow the forum and might be interested and willing to report issues
However somewhere on the forum page will be helpful to save providing instructions every time

Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 07:04:32 PM
Under 'Download MusicBee' it currently says
"We hope you'll enjoy your music experience with MusicBee!"

That sounds slightly weak, maybe better:
"Start enjoying your music experience with MusicBee!"


Under 'Installer Edition'
There is some explanation about possible traces of leftovers. I would not put that text there. That will be taken by many as an alarming thing and might make people uncertain and starting asking lots of questions: "if it's safe?"

Under 'Portable edition' it mentions USB drives, but not that you can also install it on your desktop, on another partition, etc.

I would suggest to keep these two short and simple:

Installer Edition
This version will install MusicBee on your Windows system drive

Portable Edition
This version can be installed on other locations, such as another partition, or a USB drive.

Thanks. i will update that.

It might be good to add a link such as: "which version to choose", explaining the differences between installer en portable in more detail.
That will also help to prevent the often recurring question on the forum about that.

Good, idea. But instead of link, i will add a popup which will open on mouse hover. Here is what i did:
(http://i.imgur.com/jm26NI3.jpg)

The MusicBee Beta bar at the bottom is very prominent, and has a different layout and structure than the Installer and Portable edition which most new users will want to download.
And there is a large exclamation mark. Which is good, but adding that on the primary download page might add to possible alarming feelings with new users coming there.
Well yes that section has different layout and color, but it matches the layout perfectly. As for new user there is one BIG warning sign and a text in BOLD warning users, even after that if they download it, well nothing can stop them :/


Wouldn't it be better for the Beta version to have a similar large button as the Installer and Portable editions, with the text 'MusicBee Beta', and instead of 'start download', only say "go to the Beta page".

In that way the main download page will look a lot cleaner, and on the dedicated Beta page there will be more opportunity to explain Beta better.
I am not keen on creating a page for beta, maintaining two page is a hassle. as for cleaner, the current download page looks already clean. also i am trying to keep both beta and stable in single page, so user don't have to guess or fiddling around to get both version.

As for explaining i HIGHLY doubt steven would wan't that for beta releases. that yellow box on the beta section can show message from Steven(controlled from the new admin panel), also steven will include forum link there. And the forum will contain explanation much more in depth.


at this point the download page is pretty much final, there won't be any major layout change. I also did change the headline and others you mentioned.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 07:07:45 PM
And, if I understand correctly, there are not going to be items as alpha, nightly, pre-release, etc.

So we keep having the already familiar 'latest patch'.
Shouldn't that be on the download page too then?

As patch updates are way too frequent, also at the end of those patches there are Musicbee x Update x, which generally contain all of those fixes. So no point.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 07:10:47 PM
It might be good to add a link such as: "which version to choose", explaining the differences between installer en portable in more detail.
That will also help to prevent the often recurring question on the forum about that.

Good, idea. But instead of link, i will add a popup which will open on mouse hover. Here is what i did:
(http://i.imgur.com/jm26NI3.jpg)

also can you guys provide some description to put in that popup. I am clearly out of idea of what to include there??
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 07:17:00 PM
also can you guys provide some description to put in that popup. I am clearly out of idea of what to include there??

I will make a draft for that. How much text will fit there?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 07:21:35 PM
also can you guys provide some description to put in that popup. I am clearly out of idea of what to include there??

I will make a draft for that. How much text will fit there?

Make it short and brief, MAYBE under 30 words or less. less is always better as i highly doubt user will read LONG descriptions!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 07:33:22 PM
Well yes that section has different layout and color, but it matches the layout perfectly. As for new user there is one BIG warning sign and a text in BOLD warning users, even after that if they download it, well nothing can stop them :/

That's kind of why I was bringing this up. It is big and bold.
This Beta stuff is taking up a very big part of the whole page, while I feel the focus there should be on the stable versions.

Also, is it confirmed that there actually will be downloadable, installable Beta version that will require all this space?
(apologies if I haven't followed the comments about that too well)

Quote
As for explaining i HIGHLY doubt steven would wan't that for beta releases.

By explaining, I didn't mean the ins-and-outs and details of a current and specific beta release.
I meant only explaining that beta = pre-relase, unstable, own risk, blablabla

Quote
at this point the download page is pretty much final, there won't be any major layout change. I also did change the headline and others you mentioned.

Great, Ill shut up until the next round ;-)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 07:41:52 PM
I will make a draft for that. How much text will fit there?
Make it short and brief, MAYBE under 30 words or less. less is always better as i highly doubt user will read LONG descriptions!

installer edition:
This version will install MusicBee on the Windows system drive.

portable edition:
This version gives you the option to install MusicBee in a location or on a USB drive of your own choosing.


The only thing still missing then, which is being asked on the forum regularly, is if there are functional differences between these two.
Do you have a suggestion where that could be explained?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 08:04:40 PM
I will make a draft for that. How much text will fit there?
Make it short and brief, MAYBE under 30 words or less. less is always better as i highly doubt user will read LONG descriptions!

installer edition:
This version will install MusicBee on the Windows system drive.

portable edition:
This version gives you the option to install MusicBee in a location or on a USB drive of your own choosing.
Remove [installer edition:]
Replace with:
Installer Version:
This version will install MusicBee on the Windows system drive.
There is no functional difference between this and the portable version.

Remove [portable edition:]
Replace with:
Portable Version:
This version gives you the option to install MusicBee in the location of your choice or on a USB drive.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 08:07:44 PM
Well yes that section has different layout and color, but it matches the layout perfectly. As for new user there is one BIG warning sign and a text in BOLD warning users, even after that if they download it, well nothing can stop them :/

That's kind of why I was bringing this up. It is big and bold.
This Beta stuff is taking up a very big part of the whole page, while I feel the focus there should be on the stable versions.

Also, is it confirmed that there actually will be downloadable, installable Beta version that will require all this space?
(apologies if I haven't followed the comments about that too well)
I put the focus on both, People will download what they like. I am sure most people will stay away from the beta since the warning sign and the bold warning text are enough. I don't see any reason to split them up in different pages.

i don't get the "downloadable and installable" part. The beta will only contain incremental release and need previous stable release. OFC Steven will mention it in that yellow box, he can add any warning or info note he likes, i made it flexible ;)


Quote
As for explaining i HIGHLY doubt steven would wan't that for beta releases.

By explaining, I didn't mean the ins-and-outs and details of a current and specific beta release.
I meant only explaining that beta = pre-relase, unstable, own risk, blablabla
That yellow box in the beta section will have those warning. Steven will be able to update it as often as needed.

Quote
at this point the download page is pretty much final, there won't be any major layout change. I also did change the headline and others you mentioned.

Great, Ill shut up until the next round ;-)

The next round is coming SOON, so be prepared :)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 08:10:57 PM
I will make a draft for that. How much text will fit there?
Make it short and brief, MAYBE under 30 words or less. less is always better as i highly doubt user will read LONG descriptions!

installer edition:
This version will install MusicBee on the Windows system drive.

portable edition:
This version gives you the option to install MusicBee in a location or on a USB drive of your own choosing.
Remove [installer edition:]
Replace with:
Installer Version:
This version will install MusicBee on the Windows system drive.
There is no functional difference between this and the portable version.

Remove [portable edition:]
Replace with:
Portable Version:
This version gives you the option to install MusicBee in the location of your choice or on a USB drive.

Thanks hiccup and phred.
@hiccup, the installer description you provided is already under the installer edition header. so no point in repeating, i like the phred's suggestion.
and thanks for those correction and suggestions :)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 08:15:13 PM
Remove [portable edition:]
Replace with:
Portable Version:

The buttons that AvikB created are also called Installer Edition, and Portable Edition. That's why I thought to be consistent in that.

There are no functional differences, but there are reasons to choose one or the other. Those reasons could be explained to new users who are new to the phenomenon of 'portable installation'

Also, differences between installer and portable can be experienced in relation to:
Windows 'protecting' it's system drive, administrator rights (enabling MB in context menu's), virus scanners, etc.

It would be good to summarize that in an understandable manner somewhere.


Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 08:24:49 PM
@hiccup, the installer description you provided is already under the installer edition header. so no point in repeating, i like the phred's suggestion.

I think we are having some confusion, and talking about some different things here.

From your screenshot, the button had the description:
This is a EXE or MSI file that can be installed in your system and may leave behaind some traces of the program even when uninstalled.

My suggestion for the pop-up was:
This version will install MusicBee on the Windows system drive.

Never mind, you'll figure out what to do with that now.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 08:25:16 PM
Remove [portable edition:]
Replace with:
Portable Version:

The buttons that AvikB created are also called Installer Edition, and Portable Edition. That's why I thought to be consistent in that.

There are no functional differences, but there are reasons to choose one or the other. Those reasons could be explained to new users who are new to the phenomenon of 'portable installation'

Also, differences between installer and portable can be experienced in relation to:
Windows 'protecting' it's system drive, administrator rights (enabling MB in context menu's), virus scanners, etc.

It would be good to summarize that in an understandable manner somewhere.

i do agree, maybe we could fit all those summery in short for the installer version/or edition what ever you call it.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 08:28:14 PM
@hiccup, the installer description you provided is already under the installer edition header. so no point in repeating, i like the phred's suggestion.

I think we are having some confusion, and talking about some different things here.

From your screenshot, the button had the description:
This is a EXE or MSI file that can be installed in your system and may leave behaind some traces of the program even when uninstalled.

My suggestion for the pop-up was:
This version will install MusicBee on the Windows system drive.

Never mind, you'll figure out what to do with that now.

well here is the latest screenshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/PWBbCvl.jpg)

i did changed those under the headline according to your suggestion. i guess i should have been a bit clear :S
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 08:31:57 PM
well here is the latest screenshot:
i did changed those under the headline according to your suggestion. i guess i should have been a bit clear :S

That looks good, so now you also didn't need the extra hover-over pop-up.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
Remove [portable edition:]
Replace with:
Portable Version:

The buttons that AvikB created are also called Installer Edition, and Portable Edition. That's why I thought to be consistent in that.
Understood.  It really makes no difference "edition" or "version." I saw "version in the text below it and, for consistency, made it version.  As long as they're all the same, either is fine.  Pick one and go with it.

Quote
There are no functional differences, but there are reasons to choose one or the other. Those reasons could be explained to new users who are new to the phenomenon of 'portable installation'

Also, differences between installer and portable can be experienced in relation to:
Windows 'protecting' it's system drive, administrator rights (enabling MB in context menu's), virus scanners, etc.

It would be good to summarize that in an understandable manner somewhere.
Yes, but we're trying to keep this description to under 30 words.
Maybe the words "differences between these versions (or editions)" and either hover for a pop-up or link to a simple chart.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
PS, 'Which' and 'Choose' shouldn't be capitalized there.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 08:39:45 PM
There are no functional differences, but there are reasons to choose one or the other. Those reasons could be explained to new users who are new to the phenomenon of 'portable installation'
Also, differences between installer and portable can be experienced in relation to:
Windows 'protecting' it's system drive, administrator rights (enabling MB in context menu's), virus scanners, etc.
It would be good to summarize that in an understandable manner somewhere.
Yes, but we're trying to keep this description to under 30 words.
Maybe the words "differences between these versions (or editions)" and either hover for a pop-up or link to a simple chart.

I'm not sure I could explain the above in 30 words, or in a simple chart.
As a native English speaker, maybe you can give it a try?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 08:41:12 PM
well here is the latest screenshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/PWBbCvl.jpg)
a) I still think XP should be included in the list of operating systems.  MB -does- work under XP.
b) Under "Portable Version:
   This version can be installed in other locations, such as another partition or USB drive.  (Get rip of the second comma)
c) Under "Get Portable Version:"
   Change "Confused..." to Which version should I use?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 08:42:36 PM
okay i actually like the "Edition" better instead of "Version".

here is the summery i put in there

(http://i.imgur.com/b7w2yox.jpg)

as benefits already mentioned under the headlines, i decided to use some general info for user.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 08:44:45 PM
well here is the latest screenshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/PWBbCvl.jpg)
a) I still think XP should be included in the list of operating systems.  MB -does- work under XP.
b) Under "Portable Version:
   This version can be installed in other locations, such as another partition or USB drive.  (Get rip of the second comma)
c) Under "Get Portable Version:"
   Change "Confused..." to Which version should I use?

thanks updated :)
(http://i.imgur.com/Dsa0Qw8.jpg)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 08:53:32 PM
okay i actually like the "Edition" better instead of "Version".

here is the summery i put in there

(http://i.imgur.com/b7w2yox.jpg)

as benefits already mentioned under the headlines, i decided to use some general info for user.
There is no functional difference between the Installer and the Portable Editions.

The Installer Edition can not be moved to another location and you may need to Run as Administrator.  The Portable Edition is installed to the location of your choice - a different partition or even a USB drive.

Now that I'm looking at this again, is the popup even needed?  It's just restating what's already there under each version/edition.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 08:55:02 PM
Yes, but we're trying to keep this description to under 30 words.
Maybe the words "differences between these versions (or editions)" and either hover for a pop-up or link to a simple chart.
I'm not sure I could explain the above in 30 words, or in a simple chart.
As a native English speaker, maybe you can give it a try?

Ah well, let nobody call me lazy. here's a kick-off to work from:

Most users will want to install the Installer Edition.

Reasons to choose for the Portable Edition:
- When you have no user rights to install MusicBee on the Windows system drive
- When you don't want MusicBee writing any files or folders to your Windows system drive
- When you are using antivirus software that over-aggressively protects the Windows folders
- When you want to install a portable version of MusicBee besides the version already installed on your system drive. Be warned, only do this when you are fully aware of possible risks on the integrity of your MusicBee library.
- When you want to have MusicBee running from a USB drive, and so also being able to take it with you and use it on other Windows computers
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 09:01:37 PM
a) I still think XP should be included in the list of operating systems.  MB -does- work under XP.

I agree in principle, but you could argue against it that Microsoft themselves don't support XP anymore.
Should MusicBee then? In case of possible problems in the future?

Also (but this is where Steven will have to chip in), the working of MB depends on .NET
I am pretty sure XP won't have the correct version integrated out-of-the-box.

Maybe MusicBee v3 even has other requisites on .NET then v2.x?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 09:05:08 PM
Yes, but we're trying to keep this description to under 30 words.
Maybe the words "differences between these versions (or editions)" and either hover for a pop-up or link to a simple chart.
I'm not sure I could explain the above in 30 words, or in a simple chart.
As a native English speaker, maybe you can give it a try?

Ah well, let nobody call me lazy. here's a kick-off to work from:

Most users will want to install the Installer Edition.

Reasons to choose for the Portable Edition:
- When you have no user rights to install MusicBee on the Windows system drive
- When you don't want MusicBee writing any files or folders to your Windows system drive
- When you are using antivirus software that over-aggressively protects the Windows folders
- When you want to install a portable version of MusicBee besides the version already installed on your system drive. Be warned, only do this when you are fully aware of possible risks on the integrity of your MusicBee library.
- When you want to have MusicBee running from a USB drive, and so also being able to take it with you and use it on other Windows computers

i have made a simpler version of what you wrote, since all that is not possible in that small box.

(http://i.imgur.com/6bAL3pb.jpg)

i did removed two points, as it probably is not that important.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 09:06:04 PM
Yes, but we're trying to keep this description to under 30 words.
Maybe the words "differences between these versions (or editions)" and either hover for a pop-up or link to a simple chart.
I'm not sure I could explain the above in 30 words, or in a simple chart.
As a native English speaker, maybe you can give it a try?

Ah well, let nobody call me lazy. here's a kick-off to work from:

Most users will want to download and use the Installer Edition.

Reasons to choose for the Portable Edition:
- If you have no user rights to install MusicBee on the Windows system drivered.
- If you don't want MusicBee creating any files or folders to your Windows system drivered.
- If you are using antivirus software that over-aggressively protects the Windows foldersred.
- If you want to install a portable version of MusicBee besides the version already installed on your system drive. Be warned, only do this when you are fully aware of possible risks on the integrity of your MusicBee library.
- If you want to have MusicBee running from a USB drive and also be able to take it with you and use it on other Windows computers.
This is what happens when I'm working six to 10 hours behind you guys.   :)  I'm trying to catch up but it's a moving target!!!  See my changes in red in the above quote.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 09:08:13 PM
There is no functional difference between the Installer and the Portable Editions.

If 'editions' become plural, shouldn't it also become: 'there are no functional differences'?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 09:08:47 PM
i have made a simpler version of what you wrote, since all that is not possible in that small box.

(http://i.imgur.com/6bAL3pb.jpg)

i did removed two points, as it probably is not that important.
Excellent.  I suggest removing the blank line between "Reasons to choose..." and the first point.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 09:09:46 PM
a) I still think XP should be included in the list of operating systems.  MB -does- work under XP.

Okay i need to clear few things.

Steven will be able to change that. I made it possible to do so in the admin panel. The screenshot only reflects the test scenario.

here is the admin board:

(http://i.imgur.com/nuCrYnp.jpg)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 09:13:26 PM
There is no functional difference between the Installer and the Portable Editions.

If 'editions' become plural, shouldn't it also become: 'there are no functional differences'?

I'm not 100% certain on this one. I could ask my professional Copy Editor wife when she comes home but isn't this line moot at this point?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 10, 2015, 09:14:31 PM
i have made a simpler version of what you wrote, since all that is not possible in that small box.

(http://i.imgur.com/6bAL3pb.jpg)

i did removed two points, as it probably is not that important.
Excellent.  I suggest removing the blank line between "Reasons to choose..." and the first point.

done. also i am making this last change MOSTLY the final.

@phred, i will probably send you the download page files for a correction tomorrow.
also thanks for those great suggestion @hiccup :)

good night.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 09:17:38 PM
good night.
Nightynight guys, we've been productive...
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 10, 2015, 09:34:31 PM
HEY!!!  It's still early here!  I wanna play some more!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 10, 2015, 09:39:04 PM
HEY!!!  It's still early here!  I wanna play some more!

I believe Japan is starting to wake up now. Go make some friends there too ;-)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bigmelwalter on December 12, 2015, 10:59:11 PM
Is this updated site live? If so can we visit it?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 13, 2015, 12:57:16 AM
Is this updated site live? If so can we visit it?
It's not live.  It is only in test mode and probably won't be ready for a week or so.  There's a link to the test site in the first post of this thread.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 13, 2015, 03:51:11 AM
It's not live.  It is only in test mode and probably won't be ready for a week or so.  There's a link to the test site in the first post of this thread.

Is this updated site live? If so can we visit it?

it will take a few more days or week before the new site update is ready for testing.
I did had to redesign some core part of admin panel to utilize the ajax and also some new control for dashboard, so i had to put the dashboard work in halt. I will upload the new new site when the new dashboard and addon center is fully done :)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 14, 2015, 01:56:25 PM
There is no functional difference between the Installer and the Portable Editions.

If 'editions' become plural, shouldn't it also become: 'there are no functional differences'?

I'm not 100% certain on this one. I could ask my professional Copy Editor wife when she comes home but isn't this line moot at this point?
FWIW, I was correct.  The words "There is no..." is referring to the word "difference."  If you were to use "differences" then the beginning of the sentence should be "There are no..."
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bigmelwalter on December 14, 2015, 02:34:07 PM
It's not live.  It is only in test mode and probably won't be ready for a week or so.  There's a link to the test site in the first post of this thread.


Is this updated site live? If so can we visit it?

it will take a few more days or week before the new site update is ready for testing.
I did had to redesign some core part of admin panel to utilize the ajax and also some new control for dashboard, so i had to put the dashboard work in halt. I will upload the new new site when the new dashboard and addon center is fully done :)


Sounds like good news!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 15, 2015, 08:42:18 AM
I just pushed another big update for the demo site.
BUT unfortunately, if you visit the demo site now, you will get error! :( This is due to the php version, i assumed that the php upgrade is done, but it seems that is not case right now. I contacted Steven to get a clear picture of it. So you guys have to wait till this is solved.

Here are some screen-shots of what is new. First of all, this is not a HUGE update on the visual side, BUT more of a enhancement and some major improvement and a huge step towards future updates.
Some core features are re-written for ease of maintaining, specially the admin-panel, and dashboard, it is completely based on ajax(like gmail, no need to refresh or reload to submit or go to another page). The main site will still use normal non-ajax navigation.

Also the footer is improved, and thanks to some suggestion from bee-liver i put the beehive patter in the footer, and it looks good.

(http://i.imgur.com/1yST7m0.png)


Another big change for admin panel is the all MusicBee release section. With this steven can update release notes(which is based on markdown format), and allow addon devs to target Major MusicBee releases. This will help maintaining the dashboard more easier. Oh and Steven will be able to disable downloads for any release. I dunno much use for it, but for beta release it will be easier disable and enable beta when Steven feels like being on Fire and do some major upgrades to MusicBee(like now).

(http://i.imgur.com/ILRNVAD.png)

here is the editor popup

(http://i.imgur.com/mu1Qn2i.png)

and when you save or update something, or some problem got in the way a popup will appear at the bottom corner and notify you.

(http://i.imgur.com/CHphjAG.jpg)

Although the error popup is NOT SO HELPFUL :P

Although this is mainly for admin panel, and that ,means only Steven or any admin account can only access this. BUT this is the foundation or that the dashboard will use, and same design and ajax based navigation and popups.

I am still building the addon dashboard bit by bit. The UI is near complete, the core function is still cooking :), here is a sneak peak:

(http://i.imgur.com/zIo3P6P.png)

oh and the forum received theme update too. it is not done yet, but once i managed to get the demo site running i will update to the new theme.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 15, 2015, 11:13:51 AM
the PHP version and MySQL database upgrade is scheduled to happen 2am PST tomorrow
For the PHP version its not clear if the musicbee server will be upgraded to 5.5 or 5.6
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 15, 2015, 12:28:03 PM
the PHP version and MySQL database upgrade is scheduled to happen 2am PST tomorrow
For the PHP version its not clear if the musicbee server will be upgraded to 5.5 or 5.6

well i am using php 5.5 as my test server, as long as they upgrade to higher than 5.3 it will be okay :)
damn php 7 just released. They might do another upgrade in few years! that should be exciting.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 11:01:04 AM
THE NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING

the new server is now running php 5.5 and the demo site is working :)
Here is the list of changes beside the ones that i posted above:
   - the home page has now slight animation when scrolling down
   - Home page also now uses smooth scroll(firefox has this by default, so firefox user won't notice it, but chromium user will notice it)
   - The download page has new beehive pattern in the beta section. also Admin  will be able to Enable or Disable the downloads at their will(yay, more power)
   - The footer has received a new design.
   - THE NEW UPDATED FORUM IS NOW LIVE, The forum is not complete, i only modified few styles and templates, more update is coming soon.

also the addon page demo that i posted few weeks back has been taken down. I will upload the version when the dashboard is available, or i might post some other demo of the addon page for community feedback.

Another breaking change is the new Schema(database model).

Sorry for this late update, the main reason is the new server and forum upgrade, and as well as i had to check every aspect of the admin panel for security holes, as well as redesign few core aspects. with the admin panel, overall i am really happy of how it turned out, and dashboard will have the same core aspects and security.

Few things I MIGHT ADD in future is the site wide announcement system from admin panel, also updating some headline of the home page. BUT thats really not planned for now.

I will upload the new dashboard in two or three days(i hope so), since the admin panel is done it should not take much time.

http://test.getmusicbee.com (http://test.getmusicbee.com) Here is the demo site link.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 02:29:15 PM
Very nice AvikB, you've been spreading some more magic dust over the site.

The non-blurred fonts are loading quickly now, great.

- I noticed that when you open the homepage for a first time (clear cache), the MB screenshot does not display. It will as soon as you scroll down a little bit.
Wouldn't it be better to have that one displaying immediately? Now the homepage looks quite empty and a bit bland to start with, and it doesn't invite, or suggest you to scroll.

(http://i.imgur.com/rn9FFLZs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/rn9FFLZ.png)

- I do like the design (and the icons etc.) of what you created as a footer.
But, the "Add-ons for MusicBee" links there are a bit superfluous, since they are also at the top of the starting page, but in a different design.
That could be perceived a little bit confusing, 'is there a difference between header links and footer links'?
Maybe the menu on the top could get a little design magic dust too, a bit similar to the looks of the footer?

- I notice there is an 'Equalizer' category under Addons. Do 'equalizer' addons actually exist?

- there is a mention of your favourite artists and albums. (Nitpicking mode enabled), but I learned that preferred spelling was going to be US English, in which case it would be 'favorite'.

- There is this text:
"Edit/View all tags with the extensive tag editor and the tag inspector. Manage duplicates, custom tags, Automatically organise library file names and structure, get song tags from online sources .... and a lot more"
There are some small errors in it, and to me it doesn't read too fluent.
Maybe change it a bit to something like this: ?

Edit and view tags with the extensive tag editor and MusicBee's Tag Inspector.
Explore near-unlimited possibilities by using virtual tags.
Manage duplicates, and have your library and it's structure automatically organized.
Get song tags from online sources .... and a lot more!

Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 02:47:11 PM
- I noticed that when you open the homepage for a first time (clear cache), the MB screenshot does not display. It will as soon as you scroll down a little bit.
Wouldn't it be better to have that one displaying immediately? Now the homepage looks quite empty and a bit bland to start with, and it doesn't invite, or suggest you to scroll.
Yes.  I found this quite annoying.  The entire home page was like this.  Nothing showed until I scrolled down.  And then it faded it.  It should all be loaded when it first appears.  We don't need fade ins, we don't need blinking.  We don't need bells or whistles.  Just let it be.

Quote
- I do like the design (and the icons etc.) of what you created as a footer.
But, the "Add-ons for MusicBee" links there are a bit superfluous, since they are also at the top of the starting page, but in a different design.
That could be perceived a little bit confusing, 'is there a difference between header links and footer links'?
Maybe the menu on the top could get a little design magic dust too, a bit similar to the looks of the footer?
Again I agree with hiccup.

Quote
- there is a mention of your favourite artists and albums. (Nitpicking mode enabled), but I learned that preferred spelling was going to be US English, in which case it would be 'favorite'.
Correct.  But not an issue at this point.  I will take care of this when I get the files for proofreading. 
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 02:49:28 PM
Correct.  But not an issue at this point.  I will take care of this when I get the files for proofreading.

Ok, sorry, spoke too soon ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 02:50:58 PM
Correct.  But not an issue at this point.  I will take care of this when I get the files for proofreading.

Ok, sorry, spoke too soon ;-)
No, not really.  I'm sure I'll miss one or two of these and it's always good to have another set of eyes.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 03:03:04 PM
Very nice AvikB, you've been spreading some more magic dust over the site.
The non-blurred fonts are loading quickly now, great.
:) Glad it worked out.

- I noticed that when you open the homepage for a first time (clear cache), the MB screenshot does not display. It will as soon as you scroll down a little bit.
Wouldn't it be better to have that one displaying immediately? Now the homepage looks quite empty and a bit bland to start with, and it doesn't invite, or suggest you to scroll.
(http://i.imgur.com/rn9FFLZs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/rn9FFLZ.png)
Seems like a bug. Will be fixed in the next update. Thanks for pointing it out.


- I do like the design (and the icons etc.) of what you created as a footer.
But, the "Add-ons for MusicBee" links there are a bit superfluous, since they are also at the top of the starting page, but in a different design.
That could be perceived a little bit confusing, 'is there a difference between header links and footer links'?
Maybe the menu on the top could get a little design magic dust too, a bit similar to the looks of the footer?
No, they are not different. I put them there for better SEO, and noticeable for users. The old one has a description and just a link to wiki, i though it might good idea to make it a bit more inline with the design. the different design is because that it is on the footer and not in the navigation bar. I might add those icons in the nav bar too, haven't decided it yet.

- I notice there is an 'Equalizer' category under Addons. Do 'equalizer' addons actually exist?
Well there is equalizer presets and DSP plugins, which is really nice. Since there are thousands of presets that can be achieved(i am sure you guys have some nifty custom one too), i though it might be a good idea to add it. It will save headache for new or even existing users to get the equalizer right.

As for DSP plugin, i have no idea if i should put it under plugins or not, BUT since Steven added it With Equalizer, i did the same just for the sake of similarity.

- there is a mention of your favourite artists and albums. (Nitpicking mode enabled), but I learned that preferred spelling was going to be US English, in which case it would be 'favorite'.
Phred is going to help me with the spelling correction thingy. I send him the download page today(since, it is final). The home page needs some few more element and then it will be final too. You might wanna check those spelling mistakes after Phred is done with it. :)

- There is this text:
"Edit/View all tags with the extensive tag editor and the tag inspector. Manage duplicates, custom tags, Automatically organise library file names and structure, get song tags from online sources .... and a lot more"
There are some small errors in it, and to me it doesn't read too fluent.
Maybe change it a bit to something like this: ?

Edit and view tags with the extensive tag editor and MusicBee's Tag Inspector.
Explore near-unlimited possibilities by using virtual tags.
Manage duplicates, and have your library and it's structure automatically organized.
Get song tags from online sources .... and a lot more!
Thanks, i just copy and pasted some wording from the current website feature page :P , i thought it sounds weird, i will make the correction, and then rest is upto Phred to correct.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 03:12:44 PM
Yes.  I found this quite annoying.  The entire home page was like this.  Nothing showed until I scrolled down.  And then it faded it.  It should all be loaded when it first appears.  We don't need fade ins, we don't need blinking.  We don't need bells or whistles.  Just let it be.
Well first Impression matters :P but anyway, this is mostly an experiment. even If the bug is fixed do you think i should remove it? i might need some input on these.

Again I agree with hiccup.
It seems adding those icons in the nav bar will be a good idea.

Quote
Correct.  But not an issue at this point.  I will take care of this when I get the files for proofreading.
already sent the download page, the home page will reach you tomorrow.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 03:39:05 PM
Well first Impression matters :P but anyway, this is mostly an experiment. even If the bug is fixed do you think i should remove it? i might need some input on these.

Personally, I don't care much for eye-candy which doesn't seem to serve a specific and useful purpose. (not saying yours doesn't!)
Like most 'ingredients', such as flavoring food, dsp effects on music recordings, and maybe also eye-candy on websites, it's often at it's very best when you are not consciously aware that, or where it has been added.

But a very important thing is, the same as we all here appreciate that MusicBee only exists, and continues to develop and improve by the grace of Steven having fun doing it, I have a similar feeling about everything you have been doing lately. So please keep listening to constructive comments, but also keep having fun doing all this and keep making your own decisions. (as long as supported by S. of course ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 04:03:39 PM
already sent the download page, the home page will reach you tomorrow.
You posted this about an hour ago and I haven't received any email from you.  I'm heading out for a couple of hours and hopefully it will be here when I get back.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 04:21:15 PM
Personally, I don't care much for eye-candy which doesn't seem to serve a specific and useful purpose. (not saying yours doesn't!)
Like most 'ingredients', such as flavoring food, dsp effects on music recordings, and maybe also eye-candy on websites, it's often at it's very best when you are not consciously aware that, or where it has been added.
Well according to most research humans always tends to like shiny things :) ,i have fixed that image displaying issue. an update is pushed. Also addon drop menu now has icons.
As for those fancy animation, i did put some though into it, only the home page will have those animation, since the it is the MAIN LANDING PAGE for new visitors.

For regular users i HIGHLY doubt they even go to the main page. Most of you probably have bookmarks to the forum or the download page. So the home page eyecandy should not get annoying since you rarely visit it. But for new users it is a completely different story.

You can say that it is one page presentation of what MusicBee is capable of. A little bit of animation won't put new users away.


But a very important thing is, the same as we all here appreciate that MusicBee only exists, and continues to develop and improve by the grace of Steven having fun doing it, I have a similar feeling about everything you have been doing lately. So please keep listening to constructive comments, but also keep having fun doing all this and keep making your own decisions. (as long as supported by S. of course ;-)

To me MusicBee is a godgiven product i have longed(except for few annoying pesky bugs :P). I appreciate the work steven has done, and most importantly his daily role at the community. As for fun part, i do have a lots of fun while creating a new feature for the site...... BUT THEN COMES THE HORROR OF DEBUGGING :O and few hours of head smashing at the deck.

But to be fair i started this project as a simple site redesign(no complicated addon center and dashboard stuff)  and thanks to you guys helping shaping the site, i can keep going on with those awesome stuff :)

KEEP THOSE IDEAS COMING :)

another thing i confirmed with the steven is that there won't be any award section, as steven is not interested, so i decided to not include it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 04:25:12 PM
already sent the download page, the home page will reach you tomorrow.
You posted this about an hour ago and I haven't received any email from you.  I'm heading out for a couple of hours and hopefully it will be here when I get back.

Okay now this is embarrassing. :S
i mistakenly sent that email to myself(not much of a email user), i just sent you this time FOR SURE
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 04:29:09 PM
Please ignore this, if I am repeating myself, and a decision on this has already been made and explained.
(I don't remember all conversations)

On the forum main page, the large blue button says:
Get the latest MusicBee. Make sure you always have the latest version.

This is fine, and useful for the purpose of drawing attention to using at least the latest stable release.

But on the forum, users reporting bugs and looking for solutions to a problem are very frequently told to "install the latest patch, since that probably already solved your issue". Also, it is not always clear to everybody where to find these patches.

It would be very helpful to also have 'a big button' with a download link to the latest patch. No need for explanation such as version history, solved issues etc.
But at least a link to it, and a short explanation: "download, copy files over to existing files in your MB installation folder blabla." would be very helpful.

So: one button "Get the latest MusicBee (stable)", and another one: "download the latest patch"

?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 04:43:41 PM
another thing i confirmed with the steven is that there won't be any award section, as steven is not interested, so i decided to not include it.

I wasn't aware an 'award section' was brought up or discussed, but thinking about it:
Wouldn't a link on the MB homepage to the forum's 'official MusicBee's appreciation thread' be good to have?
It's filled with positive and enthusiastic testimonials from users, and it could help warming the cold feet of new potential users.
It's also much more personal and trustworthy than a reward or review from some website.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 04:56:24 PM
Please ignore this, if I am repeating myself, and a decision on this has already been made and explained.
(I don't remember all conversations)

On the forum main page, the large blue button says:
Get the latest MusicBee. Make sure you always have the latest version.

This is fine, and useful for the purpose of drawing attention to using at least the latest stable release.

But on the forum, users reporting bugs and looking for solutions to a problem are very frequently told to "install the latest patch, since that probably already solved your issue". Also, it is not always clear to everybody where to find these patches.

It would be very helpful to also have 'a big button' with a download link to the latest patch. No need for explanation such as version history, solved issues etc.
But at least a link to it, and a short explanation: "download, copy files over to existing files in your MB installation folder blabla." would be very helpful.

So: one button "Get the latest MusicBee (stable)", and another one: "download the latest patch"

?

That would've been a good idea. But there are few reasons i haven't done it.
If i link to get latest patch, then it has to be a download link rather than a forum link, as it will confuse user more. And with this there comes the responsibility to maintain for steven. And Steven is not willing to do that.
As for patches (since it is way too frequent) they are mostly beta/test patches(some fixes feature and some breaks), which then come out as MusicBee x Update X, so there is no need for another link to patch, as they are not stable.

It is Steven's decision and i think it is right since we don't want every user to get the beta patches(even if they have no issue with musicbee) and break something.
Latest patch is only for those who have some bugs not fixed in the stable.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 05:01:31 PM
I wasn't aware an 'award section' was brought up or discussed, but thinking about it:

The discussion was on the PM, since i wan't his input first in this particular matter, then involve the community.

Wouldn't a link on the MB homepage to the forum's 'official MusicBee's appreciation thread' be good to have?
It's filled with positive and enthusiastic testimonials from users, and it could help warming the cold feet of new potential users.
It's also much more personal and trustworthy than a reward or review from some website.

That sounds like a brilliant idea. I will add it on the homepage.

Also can you confirm that image not showing until scroll issue is gone on the home page?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 05:13:44 PM
Also can you confirm that image not showing until scroll issue is gone on the home page?

Confirmed, it now shows. (Firefox, cleared cache)

I notice that that screenshot is drawn from top to bottom.
That is what I would call 'functional eyecandy', since it kinda suggests there is more to be seen when scrolling down.
The only thing is that that drawing is not done very smooth (it's a little bit jerky) Is it a very large image file?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 05:19:39 PM
Also can you confirm that image not showing until scroll issue is gone on the home page?

Confirmed, it now shows. (Firefox, cleared cache)

I notice that that screenshot is drawn from top to bottom.
That is what I would call 'functional eyecandy', since it kinda suggests there is more to be seen when scrolling down.
The only thing is that that drawing is not done very smooth (it's a little bit jerky) Is it a very large image file?
Well that is a big relief as the bug fixed.
Yes the images are a bit large(around 500KB), i haven't done any optimization on those images, as they are from MusicBee 3(which is not finish), and also some skinning issue is visible in there, so those image will get a new update.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2015, 06:30:25 PM
i really like the way the images smoothly show on the main page when scrolling down. I guess that also improves the load time to get the initial page which is important as well.
For the download page i am not 100% happy with the beta wording.
This is how it is now:
MusicBee Beta
BEWARE THINGS MAY NOT WORK PROPERLY AND EXPECT BUGS!

This is mainly for testing purpose, do not use it as your daily driver.
Also check out the forums for bug fixes and latest update news.

----------------
just as a starting point for suggested wording (anyone feel free to improve it)
MusicBee Beta
The Beta version is under active development and not the final stable version. It is intended for anyone interested to try the latest features or bug fixes.
You should regularily check the forum for updates


-----------------
for the forum page, i think the boxes at the top could be reduced in height so more of the forum page is visible.
For the wording in the "Get the Latest MusicBee" i was wanting it (or somewhere on the forum page) to show the instructions to get the latest patched version
I guess thats going to be potentially confusing to some people so the wording would need careful consideration. I dont have the inspiration at the moment for that but perhaps others can chp in?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 07:01:20 PM
Also can you confirm that image not showing until scroll issue is gone on the home page?

Confirmed, it now shows. (Firefox, cleared cache)

I notice that that screenshot is drawn from top to bottom.
That is what I would call 'functional eyecandy', since it kinda suggests there is more to be seen when scrolling down.
The only thing is that that drawing is not done very smooth (it's a little bit jerky) Is it a very large image file?
Using Firefox and IE - both installs have never looked at the test site before - whatever doesn't fit in the open window does not show until I scroll down.  And then the text and images slowly fade in to view.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 07:02:17 PM
for the forum page, i think the boxes at the top could be reduced in height so more of the forum page is visible.
For the wording in the "Get the Latest MusicBee" i was wanting it (or somewhere on the forum page) to show the instructions to get the latest patched version
I guess thats going to be potentially confusing to some people so the wording would need careful consideration. I dont have the inspiration at the moment for that but perhaps others can chp in?

To be sure we're all on the same page here; when you mention "Get the Latest MusicBee" here, do you want that to refer to the latest stable version, or to the latest patch? (download and overwrite existing files)
And you are strictly speaking about the forum page. Correct?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 07:07:09 PM
http://test.getmusicbee.com/
just as a starting point for suggested wording (anyone feel free to improve it)
MusicBee Beta
The beta version is under active development and is not the current stable version. It is intended for anyone interested in trying the latest features or bug fixes.
You should regularly check the forum for updates.

Let me think about the wording of the rest of this.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2015, 07:11:25 PM
To be sure we're all on the same page here; when you mention "Get the Latest MusicBee" here, do you want that to refer to the latest stable version, or to the latest patch? (download and overwrite existing files)
And you are strictly speaking about the forum page. Correct?
yes this is only the forum i am talking about and only the latest patched version (so there is no installer and is for bug fixes or the first introduction of new features)
thats why its potentially confusing.
I dont want the patched version on the downloads page for reasons i have stated previously
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 07:15:06 PM
Using Firefox and IE - both installs have never looked at the test site before - whatever doesn't fit in the open window does not show until I scroll down.  And then the text and images slowly fade in to view.

any screenshot or giffy might help me detect the problem.

Also what resolution are you using?

for the forum page, i think the boxes at the top could be reduced in height so more of the forum page is visible.
Fixed for the next update

For the wording in the "Get the Latest MusicBee" i was wanting it (or somewhere on the forum page) to show the instructions to get the latest patched version
I guess thats going to be potentially confusing to some people so the wording would need careful consideration. I dont have the inspiration at the moment for that but perhaps others can chp in?
If some one can choose the wording, i will update it. BUT the instruction needs to be really short, otherwise it won't fit in there.

for the forum page, i think the boxes at the top could be reduced in height so more of the forum page is visible.
For the wording in the "Get the Latest MusicBee" i was wanting it (or somewhere on the forum page) to show the instructions to get the latest patched version
I guess thats going to be potentially confusing to some people so the wording would need careful consideration. I dont have the inspiration at the moment for that but perhaps others can chp in?

To be sure we're all on the same page here; when you mention "Get the Latest MusicBee" here, do you want that to refer to the latest stable version, or to the latest patch? (download and overwrite existing files)
And you are strictly speaking about the forum page. Correct?

I have sent the download page files to @Phred. So hiccup, phred, steven you guys can decide the wording. and when done phred can modify and fix them and send me back the final one.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 07:16:28 PM
To be sure we're all on the same page here; when you mention "Get the Latest MusicBee" here, do you want that to refer to the latest stable version, or to the latest patch? (download and overwrite existing files)
And you are strictly speaking about the forum page. Correct?
yes this is only the forum i am talking about and only the latest patched version (so there is no installer and is for bug fixes or the first introduction of new features)
thats why its potentially confusing.
I dont want the patched version on the downloads page for reasons i have stated previously

Ok, I thought to ask, because the "Get the Latest MusicBee" button AvikB created on the forum page currently refers to the latest stable version. But if I read you well, you want that button to refer to the latest patch instead.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 07:33:56 PM
This might be a bit too long, but this is my suggestion for the "download latest patch" button:

Download the latest patch

Download and install this only if you have a specific issue that was discussed an addressed in the forum.
Instructions: extract the downloaded files and copy (overwrite) them to your MusicBee installation folder.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 07:49:08 PM
This might be a bit too long, but this is my suggestion for the "download latest patch" button:

Download the latest patch

Download and install this only if you have a specific issue that was discussed an addressed in the forum.
Instructions: extract the downloaded files and copy (overwrite) them to your MusicBee installation folder.
Nothing personal, but I don't like the "only if" description.  Also, I think it's rather long.  What's wrong with what Steven wrote (and I slightly modified) -

The beta version is under active development and is not the current stable version. It is intended for anyone interested in trying the latest features or bug fixes.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2015, 07:54:46 PM
i think a few words could be chopped out
Download this version if you have a specific issue that has been addressed in the forum.
Instructions: extract the downloaded files and copy (overwrite) them to your MusicBee installation folder.

phred or anyone else - please dont feel constrained by what i suggest
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 16, 2015, 07:57:56 PM
This might be a bit too long, but this is my suggestion for the "download latest patch" button:

Download the latest patch

Download and install this only if you have a specific issue that was discussed an addressed in the forum.
Instructions: extract the downloaded files and copy (overwrite) them to your MusicBee installation folder.
Nothing personal, but I don't like the "only if" description.  Also, I think it's rather long.  What's wrong with what Steven wrote (and I slightly modified) -

The beta version is under active development and is not the current stable version. It is intended for anyone interested in trying the latest features or bug fixes.

Nothing personal too, but I am leaving this matter now.
There is too much confusion going on here about forum vs website, download latest version vs latest patch vs latest beta, etc.
Steven asked himself for suggestions on wordings for download latest patch. I contributed for that.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2015, 08:06:26 PM
@hiccup - thats right.
The current test forum (blue) box refers to the latest stable version. Thats not what i want for this.
Its the wording to provide instructions to get the latest patch version. It will only appear on the forum in that blue box

@phred - in my original post i was also commenting on the downloads page, and that wording i suggesred related to the downloads page.
In addition to that, i was also suggesting the blue information box on the forum page be updated. For that i didnt provide any suggested wording. So what hiccup has come up with is needed. I do think it could be edited down in length to fit better in the box and hence i have made some suggested tweaks to hiccups wording
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 08:06:58 PM
So if you guys came to any conclusion, let me know i will update it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 08:30:02 PM
Nothing personal too, but I am leaving this matter now.
There is too much confusion going on here about forum vs website, download latest version vs latest patch vs latest beta, etc.
Steven asked himself for suggestions on wordings for download latest patch. I contributed for that.
I can see how I contributed to the confusion.  AvikB sent me the 'download page' to look at and work on.  And that's been clouding my brain regarding Steven's comments on the -forum- page.  Although, in the interest of consistency, they should both say the same thing when referring to the latest -stable- version (2.5.5804 - released Nov 22 2015) and to any subsequent patches.  And Steven has stated previously that 3.x is -not- a beta release yet.  So should v3 even be mentioned at this point?

As for the blue box at the top of the Forum page---
Get the latest patch.
Download this version if you have a specific issue that has been addressed in the forum.
Simply unzip into your MusicBee folder and overwrite existing files.

And a question for Steven:  Should the operating systems listed include XP or not?  The current download page includes it.  And it does indeed run on XP.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2015, 08:31:43 PM
for the operating systems, i havent actually tested it on XP. I might do so this weekend but i am ok for now to leave it out

also see my edit to my previous post
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on December 16, 2015, 08:44:54 PM
And a question for Steven:  Should the operating systems listed include XP or not?  The current download page includes it.  And it does indeed run on XP.

for the operating systems, i havent actually tested it on XP. I might do so this weekend but i am ok for now to leave it out

For inclusion on the download page, "Will debugging support continue for XP?" is the question that needs to be answered.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 16, 2015, 09:06:21 PM
For inclusion on the download page, "Will debugging support continue for XP?" is the question that needs to be answered.
you are right and the answer is no - so it shouldnt be included
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on December 16, 2015, 09:16:11 PM
A few suggestions:

Plus a whole lot more...
There are tons of features in MusicBee, check out MusicBee yourself. Also use the forum and don't forget to spread the word


Plus a whole lot more...
There are tons of features in MusicBee, use it yourself and see. Also check out the user forum and don't forget to spread the word!

I think this is good for the download page
MusicBee Beta
The beta version is under active development and is not the current stable version. It is intended for anyone interested in trying the latest features or bug fixes.
You should regularly check the forum for updates.

For the blue FORUM box

    Already using MusicBee Beta?

    Make sure you always have the latest patch!
    Last update on December 16, 2015
    download the latest patch (http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_5/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip)
    and un-zip to your existing beta install folder
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 16, 2015, 09:25:34 PM
For inclusion on the download page, "Will debugging support continue for XP?" is the question that needs to be answered.
you are right and the answer is no - so it shouldnt be included

You are able to mention any os related thing in the admin panel.

A few suggestions:

Plus a whole lot more...
There are tons of features in MusicBee, check out MusicBee yourself. Also use the forum and don't forget to spread the word


Plus a whole lot more...
There are tons of features in MusicBee, use it yourself and see. Also check out the user forum and don't forget to spread the word!

I think this is good for the download page
MusicBee Beta
The beta version is under active development and is not the current stable version. It is intended for anyone interested in trying the latest features or bug fixes.
You should regularly check the forum for updates.

For the blue FORUM box

    Already using MusicBee Beta?

    Make sure you always have the latest patch!
    Last update on December 16, 2015
    download the latest patch (http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_5/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip)
    and un-zip to your existing beta install folder


I will leave this to phred, steven and you guys :)


Also the current forum and also the new forum both uses light theme. I personally don't use light theme in the night. I made a dark theme for my usage for the current forum and the new forum.

here are some screenshots:
(http://i.imgur.com/DMfqfvO.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/2wpHixG.jpg)

I am thinking of providing a switch for the forum to switch between this themes, Currently i am using stylish to use them. SO if anyone is interested in a demo(this works with the current site too) i can provide the script. Otherwise you have to wait for the next major update.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 16, 2015, 11:04:57 PM
Plus a whole lot more...
There are tons of features in MusicBee. Use it yourself and see. Also check out the user forum and don't forget to spread the word!
I like this with the changes.

MusicBee Beta
The beta version is under active development and is not the current stable version. It is intended for anyone interested in trying the latest features or bug fixes.
You should regularly check the forum for updates.


For the blue FORUM box

    Already using MusicBee Beta?

    Make sure you always have the latest patch!
    Last update on December 16, 2015
    download the latest patch (http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_5/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip)
    and un-zip to your existing beta install folder
I think either of the above work well in the blue forum box.  Bee-liever's is the shortest and would fit well.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bigmelwalter on December 17, 2015, 01:14:49 AM
The "Have A Qustion? or Issue" section is mispelled and improper grammer, just so you know
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 17, 2015, 01:27:09 AM
The "Have A Qustion? or Issue" section is mispelled and improper grammer, just so you know
Thank you.  That screenshot is just a mockup of the test page.  It hasn't been proofread yet.  But please continue to point out things like that.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 17, 2015, 05:20:12 AM
the download page updated with the changes from phred. beta wordings have been improved.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 17, 2015, 08:32:27 AM
Also the current forum and also the new forum both uses light theme. I personally don't use light theme in the night. I made a dark theme for my usage for the current forum and the new forum.

I am thinking of providing a switch for the forum to switch between this themes, Currently i am using stylish to use them. SO if anyone is interested in a demo(this works with the current site too) i can provide the script. Otherwise you have to wait for the next major update.

Very nice, I will certainly use the dark theme when you have implemented that.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 17, 2015, 08:39:52 AM
About the menu bar at the top of the website: (well, and the forum, they seem identical at this moment)

Some entries are drop-down menu's (add-ons e.g.), but most are effectively buttons.
Wouldn't it be better to have some distinction between such an entry being either a button or a drop-down menu?
Now when hoovering over the 'buttons' I am awaiting and expecting a drop-down menu (which of course doesn't appear)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 17, 2015, 09:14:54 AM
About the menu bar at the top of the website: (well, and the forum, they seem identical at this moment)

Some entries are drop-down menu's (add-ons e.g.), but most are effectively buttons.
Wouldn't it be better to have some distinction between such an entry being either a button or a drop-down menu?
Now when hovering over the 'buttons' I am awaiting and expecting a drop-down menu (which of course doesn't appear)

The reason there is no dropdown icon is because, when you HOVER your mouse over them they drop. but dropdown icons are mostly used used for click-able dropdown(you have to click to dropdown the menu).

The addon button itself is a link, and the dropdown is the subcategories of that link. so clicking the addon will take you to addons.php and clicking on skins will take you to addons.php?skin which will only show you skins.

Now before you say anything about this WEIRD dropdown menu behavior, Coincidently the new forum also uses it(yes smf now use dropdown menu by default), without any dropdown icon. SO eventually you have to learn this weird menu behavior.

You will get used to it though.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 17, 2015, 09:32:15 AM
Now before you say anything about this WEIRD dropdown menu behavior, Coincidently the new forum also uses it(yes smf now use dropdown menu by default), without any dropdown icon. SO eventually you have to learn this weird menu behavior.
You will get used to it though.

Thnx for explaining the workings.
I (people) will surely get used to it, but there is still a little itch at the back of my head that says there could be a minor design improvement on this.
I'll test drive it some more, await the working of these menus in smf, and report back if I come up with an idea.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 17, 2015, 09:49:19 AM
About the "Boards you may like:" addition on the forum page. The idea behind it is creative.
But I think it has a slightly negative effect on the design of the whole page. Also, when the new structure of boards in it's place, navigation, available boards, and descriptions should be clear enough.

It could be handy on a forum with dozens of boards, but on the MB forum users should easily be able to decide and find what they want without steering them in a direction with 3 options.
Also some new users might get lazy, and just click on one of those before doing some minor checking for the board they really need to go to.

Similar buttons which could have a good purpose though, would perhaps be buttons like:

- Latest postings
- Todays postings (same as above, but limited to last 24 hours)
- This weeks most active board

Just throwing in a few ideas, I am sure we could come up with a few more if you like the general idea of this.


Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 12:49:00 AM
It could be handy on a forum with dozens of boards, but on the MB forum users should easily be able to decide and find what they want without steering them in a direction with 3 options.
Also some new users might get lazy, and just click on one of those before doing some minor checking for the board they really need to go to.
i am one of those lazy bumps ;)


Similar buttons which could have a good purpose though, would perhaps be buttons like:

- Latest postings
- Todays postings (same as above, but limited to last 24 hours)
- This weeks most active board

Just throwing in a few ideas, I am sure we could come up with a few more if you like the general idea of this.
After giving some thoughts into this matter, i think i like your idea.

I have pushed another update to forum containing these changes:
1. All new dark theme(you need to clear the cache or refresh atleast)
2. Useful links(recent posts, and others)
3. Few major restyled forum component.

(http://i.imgur.com/KZhJJLv.jpg)

and admin panel
1. The view page is re-factored and almost 2/3 of the code is reduced.
2. Better notification system, and also removed the separation between addon center and admin panel notification code(no more duplicated codes)
3. Better readability for forms. and also some major styling changes.
4. Whenever a task is performed an overlay will show.


There are also a lots of other changes. But this is it for now. more forum changes are coming soon.

OH and the forum has new emojis too.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 18, 2015, 02:25:06 AM
Similar buttons which could have a good purpose though, would perhaps be buttons like:

- Latest postings
- Todays postings (same as above, but limited to last 24 hours)
- This weeks most active board

Just throwing in a few ideas, I am sure we could come up with a few more if you like the general idea of this.
The soon-to-be former forum had "Show unread posts since last visit."  I haven't seen that in the new forum.  Perhaps that could be added to the new dropdown.  This is my starting point for every time I visit the forum.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 03:55:41 AM
Similar buttons which could have a good purpose though, would perhaps be buttons like:

- Latest postings
- Todays postings (same as above, but limited to last 24 hours)
- This weeks most active board

Just throwing in a few ideas, I am sure we could come up with a few more if you like the general idea of this.
The soon-to-be former forum had "Show unread posts since last visit."  I haven't seen that in the new forum.  Perhaps that could be added to the new dropdown.  This is my starting point for every time I visit the forum.

It is already there, just slightly renamed. Recent unread topic is the same as Show unread posts since last visit
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: psychoadept on December 18, 2015, 04:00:53 AM
Is there any possibility of putting All Unread Topics as a link on the main forum page?  That's the one I use the most.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 04:23:04 AM
Is there any possibility of putting All Unread Topics as a link on the main forum page?  That's the one I use the most.

if you mean this:
(http://i.imgur.com/6IppPOr.jpg)

it is already available.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 11:19:24 AM
Another medium sized update. This update is completely focused on the forum.

Here is what is NEW:
New editor for the forum. (YAY!), to be fair the current forum does not show any option and pretty bare-bone. And with SMF 2.0.11 the code has significantly changed and i have to rewrite the styling. AND with this upgrade they made it difficult to reorganize or make the editor the way you like(which was extremely easy in the previous version! bummer).

I decided to use SCEdit for the forum and here is how it looks:
(http://i.imgur.com/IcOyPhH.jpg)

Now by default the quick reply editor box SHOULD show at the bottom(can any one confirm? you will need to sign in before)

also the loading sign is less ugly now.
Some enhancement to the dark theme as well.

There are few weird bugs, well atleast for me. The editor on the test website works well, but not so well on my local test machine! :S
Be sure to check it out, also if let me know if you guys have any suggestion.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 18, 2015, 02:39:27 PM
Now by default the quick reply editor box SHOULD show at the bottom(can any one confirm? you will need to sign in before)

Yes, the quick reply editor shows.

Using the dark theme: when you click 'quote', the text in the editor window is almost as black as the background and therefor unreadable.
If you hover-over with the mouse, it gets light and you can read it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 18, 2015, 02:42:22 PM
There are currently two home buttons and two login buttons with no indication on the difference. (web vs forum).
I think it would be good to indicate that.

(http://i.imgur.com/tnNijNss.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/tnNijNs.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 18, 2015, 02:54:32 PM
Just my personal opinion:

I am not very enthusiastic about people using smiley icons, all kinds of colorful fonts, etc. in forum posts when they don't serve an additional and specific purpose.
Very incidentally there might be a good reason to add a smiley (for example to show a remark was meant humorous, which might otherwise be misunderstood.

I am very afraid that making it so easy to insert those smileys, font sizes, colors etc. by presenting them by default, will quickly lead to a forum that might better suit Walt Disney.
Personally I would hide it.
Deep.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 18, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
Will the new forum support avatars? Not that it's a big deal, but would be nice.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 03:13:10 PM
There are currently two home buttons and two login buttons with no indication on the difference. (web vs forum).
I think it would be good to indicate that.

(http://i.imgur.com/tnNijNss.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/tnNijNs.png)

well both do the same thing. the web and forum login is the same.

as for the home button, i am looking for a way to change them. Maybe in next update.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 03:16:21 PM
Will the new forum support avatars? Not that it's a big deal, but would be nice.
I hope so. As for testing it is now enabled. but the final decision will be Steven's.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 18, 2015, 03:23:13 PM
I am very afraid that making it so easy to insert those smileys, font sizes, colors etc. by presenting them by default, will quickly lead to a forum that might better suit Walt Disney.
Personally I would hide it.
Deep.
+10000000
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 03:29:19 PM
I am not very enthusiastic about people using smiley icons, all kinds of colorful fonts, etc. in forum posts when they don't serve an additional and specific purpose.
They do serve a purpose. Like the font size, you can use bold font and a slightly big font to mark important things. Also colors add the readability and please eyes(unless someone write the whole forum in red ofc)

I am very afraid that making it so easy to insert those smileys, font sizes, colors etc. by presenting them by default, will quickly lead to a forum that might better suit Walt Disney.
Smileys were always there by default, they don't pose any threat. as for font size and colors i am not too keen on hiding them.
If anyone abuse them anyway mods can warn them and on repetitive behavior ban them.

On the other hand i can reduce the number of colors showing as option in there, as well as fonts. But hiding them won't benefit anyone, specially if the user knows those bbcode they can use them.

Personally I would hide it.
Deep.
Options are always good. Specially announcement thread, readme thread, even bug report thread, addon submission thread really need these to make the content popup, while being distraction free.

Maybe we can create some community guideline(which i doubt ANY ONE READS).
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 03:37:18 PM
Now by default the quick reply editor box SHOULD show at the bottom(can any one confirm? you will need to sign in before)

Yes, the quick reply editor shows.

Using the dark theme: when you click 'quote', the text in the editor window is almost as black as the background and therefor unreadable.
If you hover-over with the mouse, it gets light and you can read it.

any screenshot?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 18, 2015, 03:48:30 PM
I am not very enthusiastic about people using smiley icons, all kinds of colorful fonts, etc. in forum posts when they don't serve an additional and specific purpose.

I am very afraid that making it so easy to insert those smileys, font sizes, colors etc. by presenting them by default, will quickly lead to a forum that might better suit Walt Disney.
They do serve a purpose. Like the font size, you can use bold font and a slightly big font to mark important things. Also colors add the readability and please eyes(unless someone write the whole forum in red ofc)
Smileys were always there by default, they don't pose any threat. as for font size and colors i am not too keen on hiding them.
If anyone abuse them anyway mods can warn them and on repetitive behavior ban them.

I read many many books and newspapers, all without different sized fonts, funny colors, smileys, giving me perfectly good information.
People should in basics just use plain and understandable language to communicate.

You find they serve a purpose for readability, to me they work the exact opposite, and makes it more difficult for me to quickly get the the gist of the question/message.
I am not saying this to put my foot down or anything, but honestly: the chances that I will answer questions from users that will add those 'funny stuff' to postings will be much, much slimmer than me answering a well written and explained question.

And as my role as moderator, the last thing I am waiting for to have to do is to reprimand users because needless use of smileys, colors, large fonts etc.
Thankfully until now it's not a kindergarten here, and I really hope it stays that way.

Please, of course no offense AvikB, but as you can see I feel quite strongly about this.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on December 18, 2015, 04:11:30 PM
Will the new forum support avatars? Not that it's a big deal, but would be nice.
Lord, no. 

If you must, make sure that there is an option to hide them, and sigs, and any other personalization junk.  This isn't 4chan.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 04:12:27 PM
I read many many books and newspapers, all without different sized fonts, funny colors, smileys, giving me perfectly good information.
People should in basics just use plain and understandable language to communicate.

You find they serve a purpose for readability, to me they work the exact opposite, and makes it more difficult for me to quickly get the the gist of the question/message.
I am not saying this to put my foot down or anything, but honestly: the chances that I will answer questions from users that will add those 'funny stuff' to postings will be much, much slimmer than me answering a well written and explained question.

And as my role as moderator, the last thing I am waiting for to have to do is to reprimand users because needless use of smileys, colors, large fonts etc.
Thankfully until now it's not a kindergarten here, and I really hope it stays that way.

Please, of course no offense AvikB, but as you can see I feel quite strongly about this.

I do agree at some point. Lets get few fact straight:
Basic and necessary button that are required:
           Bold, Italic, Underline, Strike, image, link, code, quote(I REFUSE TO REMOVE CODE AND QUOTE!, specially typing the blockquote is really not intuitive and painful)

 Left align, center align(used by our addon devs, i don't use it much, but i don't think it will be that much of a nuisance for it to be removed completely)

And there is youtube video(which is new). Since giffy is allowed, i don't think a video will kill anyone. also helpful for tutorial, bug, and maybe some future unknown use.

As for color, i may remove it. since it may be abused. OR we can only show few color options(like red, blue, green, black, and magenta) this colors are used for different info, even on this thread we used them for forum structuring discussion and announcement.

as for font size how about we allow upto size 6 or 5 instead of 7. Removing this completely may not be necessary, but i might do so if really needed.

ofc if someone REALLY WANT TO ABUSE THEM THEY CAN USE THE CODE DIRECTLY!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 04:14:33 PM
Will the new forum support avatars? Not that it's a big deal, but would be nice.
Lord, no. 

If you must, make sure that there is an option to hide them, and sigs, and any other personalization junk.  This isn't 4chan.

you can already do this by going to your profile and disable avatars and sigs.

But avatar do have benefits, they can be used to identify the post author quickly instead of reading his names.
Ofc we have choices, you may enable or disable depend on your pref.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 18, 2015, 04:18:21 PM
Lord, no. 

If you must, make sure that there is an option to hide them, and sigs, and any other personalization junk.  This isn't 4chan.

That's a bit of an overreaction, most forums do have avatars, sigs, etc.
I'm sure the members of this forum are mature enough not to abuse it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 18, 2015, 04:25:27 PM
Using the dark theme: when you click 'quote', the text in the editor window is almost as black as the background and therefor unreadable.
If you hover-over with the mouse, it gets light and you can read it.

any screenshot?

(http://i.imgur.com/PlWpiC3s.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/PlWpiC3.png)

Also: I first couldn't find the 'quote' button just now, but I now see it is hidden by default, and becomes only visible when you hover-over the pane.
I think it would be better to have it sticky.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 18, 2015, 04:38:06 PM
I do agree at some point. Lets get few fact straight:
Basic and necessary button that are required:
           Bold, Italic, Underline, Strike, image, link, code, quote(I REFUSE TO REMOVE CODE AND QUOTE!, specially typing the blockquote is really not intuitive and painful)

The way it was available to be found (with some effort) on the current forum seemed to work very well in my personal opinion.
But what I do agree with you on, is that there have been two very often recurring 'problems' for posters:

1. Adding a screenshot.
I think I saw you have an entry for that now? (I'll have to check yet how that works)

2. Adding code.
Many users post code without this feature, what results in very large text and postings.
So it's a very good idea to have that one easily available. With some explanation!.

I could also agree on having 'bold' and 'underlined'.

For all the other options, in my personal opinion they can be hidden, only to be found when users take the small effort to go to help > forum > posting
(hmm, I see that's gone now in the current smf 2.0.11 forum?)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 18, 2015, 08:00:46 PM
The way it was available to be found (with some effort) on the current forum seemed to work very well in my personal opinion.
But what I do agree with you on, is that there have been two very often recurring 'problems' for posters:
The problem is not everyone is used to use bbcodes. Heck i even sometime confused them with HTML codes.
Also that EFFORT part really is not everyone's cup of tea. Most user will want to get their job done(which is posting for help or other task), not learning a bbforum software.

1. Adding a screenshot.
I think I saw you have an entry for that now? (I'll have to check yet how that works)

2. Adding code.
Many users post code without this feature, what results in very large text and postings.
So it's a very good idea to have that one easily available. With some explanation!.
Yep, they are easy to add and hardly require any explanation. Explanation(or docs) if required, will come in a later date. But markdown is WAY easier and better than this bbcode, maybe one day smf will move to markdown.

I could also agree on having 'bold' and 'underlined'.
For all the other options, in my personal opinion they can be hidden, only to be found when users take the small effort to go to help > forum > posting
(hmm, I see that's gone now in the current smf 2.0.11 forum?)
Oops, no more help is now included.(even smf stuff got tired of updating their document, i guess :P)
I will try to make some compromise, but i won't remove all of those option. Because some are very useful to others. The one thing that i will drastically reduce(hope no need to remove) is the color and size option. They are useful in certain area, but no one needed them for everyday task.

The new forum update may come tomorrow or the next day after that.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 18, 2015, 08:58:19 PM
Under the text entry box why does it say "Attachments and other options" when nothing there has to with attachments?
And in that same section there is an option to "Lock this topic."  I think only Steven and the moderators should have access to that.
[(http://i.imgur.com/wNt6E5Kl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/wNt6E5K.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 19, 2015, 10:33:39 AM
i disabled attachments (and dont plan to enable them in the live forum)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 19, 2015, 02:04:09 PM
i disabled attachments (and dont plan to enable them in the live forum)
So the word "attachments" is hardcoded into SMF and can't be removed, right?

What about the "Lock Topic" option?  Can that be set to be visible to moderators only?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 19, 2015, 03:01:30 PM
i disabled attachments (and dont plan to enable them in the live forum)
So the word "attachments" is hardcoded into SMF and can't be removed, right?

What about the "Lock Topic" option?  Can that be set to be visible to moderators only?

No, it can be changes via language file. I can send you the file if you want to change few of these terms.

as for lock topic, in the current forum it is available for users, i don't see any reason to disable it in future. :/
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on December 19, 2015, 03:29:48 PM
Quote
you can already do this by going to your profile and disable avatars and sigs.

I recognize that.  My post was a hope that such a setting exists in the new setup. 
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 19, 2015, 04:38:44 PM
i disabled attachments (and dont plan to enable them in the live forum)
So the word "attachments" is hardcoded into SMF and can't be removed, right?

What about the "Lock Topic" option?  Can that be set to be visible to moderators only?

No, it can be changes via language file. I can send you the file if you want to change few of these terms.
Yes, please email it to me and I'll take a look at it.

Quote
as for lock topic, in the current forum it is available for users, i don't see any reason to disable it in future. :/
Ahhh ... I didn't realize that was available to all on the original forum.  I thought I was seeing it because of my mod status.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 19, 2015, 04:46:27 PM
Quote
you can already do this by going to your profile and disable avatars and sigs.

I recognize that.  My post was a hope that such a setting exists in the new setup. 

I am not going to disable them since you have option to do so. Options are always good.
If you have a feature suggestion let me know.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 20, 2015, 05:24:10 AM
Another update. This time it is heavily focused on the home page.

Check out the home page, it is now overhauled and shows the feature in a more elegant way.

Groove section got removed. The reason behind removing it was because of MS's nature of changing thing.
As of today there are over 3 name changes(also api), from zune to now groove. And according to their track record they will do this in the future, so updating static thing is not really intuitive.
In Exchange there is a BETTER quality section.

Few effects are added and optimized, one new effect is the parallax and smooth jump. Also some bug fixes.

a download button and feature section button is added.

Forum got an update too.

Quote
Trying to add a sig in the new forum and I can't see what I'm typing.  The box is too small resulting in not being able to see what I'm typing.  Also the maximum number of character counter doesn't reflect the actual number of characters used.  Nor does it reset from 0 to 300 when the box is cleared.  Lastly, a limit of 300 would prevent my current sig from being used.
Thanks to Phred for reporting this bug. The editor should be big. For the remaining character i will see what i can do.

Also as Hiccup suggested, font colors are disabled, since it is not the most widely used bbcode.

Also i have updated the editor scripts to the latest version from SCEditor's official website. This includes a HANDFUL of bug fixes.
Dark theme is enhanced. Also a critical bug where enabling/disabling dark theme wont work due to cookie path issue.

Also those big colorful boxes are now on the side for less scrolling. In future you will be able to hide them.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on December 20, 2015, 05:39:42 AM
Also those big colorful boxes are now on the side for less scrolling. In future you will be able to hide them.

Strongly disagree with this change.

Regardless of whether the blue box points to the latest patch or version, I think it, and the red box that informs about having the latest version before posting a bug, should be "front and center" across the page.

It's also totally at odds to the website form of scrolling down the page for more info.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 20, 2015, 06:03:00 AM
Also those big colorful boxes are now on the side for less scrolling. In future you will be able to hide them.

Strongly disagree with this change.

Regardless of whether the blue box points to the latest patch or version, I think it, and the red box that informs about having the latest version before posting a bug, should be "front and center" across the page.
I have reverted back from the sidebar. But in future there will be a option to hide it. SO might not be a big deal for users who want their forum page to be clean.

It's also totally at odds to the website form of scrolling down the page for more info.
Is this about the home page where you have to scroll down to see more info?
If so, this is the modern design principle used by most(if not all) websites. Instead of throwing every single info at your face, scrolling for more if the user is really that interested while presenting them in a visually elegant way.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 20, 2015, 03:09:55 PM
i have to say the home page is really great how it looks, behaves and the general layout.
The only thing i am not completely comfortable with is the quality section. Maybe just the bit about "...making MusicBee a favourite among audiophiles."
and the quality guide section (but I guess it depends on what you had in mind for that).
Also for "The ULTIMATE...", i am not sure about that. To me that comes accross as overselling, but perhaps others might comment on that.
But other than that, the rest of it is jusr fantastic
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 20, 2015, 03:27:08 PM
i have to say the home page is really great how it looks, behaves and the general layout.
The only thing i am not completely comfortable with is the quality section. Maybe just the bit about "...making MusicBee a favourite among audiophiles."
and the quality guide section (but I guess it depends on what you had in mind for that).
I think this could lead Steven into a path of much more work coming from issues raised by audiophiles.  Not saying that there aren't already audiophiles using MB, but if MB is pushed as an audiophile tool, requests for fixes and enhancements may push Steven over the edge.

Quote
Also for "The ULTIMATE...", i am not sure about that. To me that comes accross as overselling, but perhaps others might comment on that.
But other than that, the rest of it is jusr fantastic
If "ULTIMATE" is going to be used, and I too am not sure it should, then it should be "unlimate" no caps.  Or perhaps only the first letter cap "Ultimate"
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 20, 2015, 03:32:57 PM
Quote
Trying to add a sig in the new forum and I can't see what I'm typing.  The box is too small resulting in not being able to see what I'm typing.  Also the maximum number of character counter doesn't reflect the actual number of characters used.  Nor does it reset from 0 to 300 when the box is cleared.  Lastly, a limit of 300 would prevent my current sig from being used.
Thanks to Phred for reporting this bug. The editor should be big. For the remaining character i will see what i can do.
I can confirm that the editor box is larger and works better now.  However, there's a small "block" bottom center of the box which turns my cursor to a "link" when hovering over it.  But it's not a link.
(http://i.imgur.com/ByjNhjvl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/ByjNhjv.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 20, 2015, 03:46:15 PM
The only thing i am not completely comfortable with is the quality section. Maybe just the bit about "...making MusicBee a favourite among audiophiles."
and the quality guide section (but I guess it depends on what you had in mind for that).
Also for "The ULTIMATE...", i am not sure about that. To me that comes accross as overselling, but perhaps others might comment on that.

'Ultimate' sounds very enthusiastic to my ears, but I think it is appropriate.
Just as ultimate holiday, ultimate atmosphere, ultimate experience, etc.
Saying something like 'the best' would be very self-boasting, but this says that if you need a player/organizer, this is the ultimate one to get.
If you really don't like it, maybe change it to 'essential' or something like that?

About the 'Quality Matters' section:
The part of making an assumption on audiophiles choices could be a little bit questionable.
Maybe change it something along these lines:

Sound quality matters
Wheter you play your music on an audiophile setup or on a laptop, MusicBee is designed with the features to fulfill all those needs.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 20, 2015, 03:50:08 PM
Sound quality matters
Wheter you play your music on an audiophile setup or on a laptop, MusicBee is designed with the features to fulfill all those needs.
yes i like that better
also i guess ULTIMATE should be ok, maybe without the ALL CAPS
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 20, 2015, 03:53:12 PM
Sound quality matters
Whether you play your music on an audiophile setup or on a laptop, MusicBee is designed with the features to fulfill all those needs.
yes i like that better

@Phred, proofreading please ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 20, 2015, 04:19:54 PM
Another Update just pushed for the forum.

Some big improvement is made. As hiccup suggested to remove unwanted buttons(colors, size...etc), since it can be misused.
Instead B33Liver suggested:

Quote from: B33liever date=1450482845
Have read the comments in the other forum about this. I like having the options for colours, font size, etc readily available. Maybe, as a compromise, the options to post using;
  • hyperlinks
  • video
  • font size
  • colour
could be turned of for newbie members

it is darn nice idea to hide extra options for Newbie users. So form now on the new forum editor will show a less featured(lite) version for newbie user

(http://i.imgur.com/cmXRNVw.jpg)


For anyone who is not newbie(admin, mod, glonal mod, hero member, sr. member and others.... even a newbie mod) member will be able to use full featured editor.

(http://i.imgur.com/BwDXFUb.jpg)

Font color is back. But has less options now.

This is a fine compromise.
Also fullscreen mode is now added for distraction free editing. and some dark theme enhancement. (sorry newbie user you wont get fullscreen mode :P )
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 20, 2015, 04:25:58 PM
i have to say the home page is really great how it looks, behaves and the general layout.
The only thing i am not completely comfortable with is the quality section. Maybe just the bit about "...making MusicBee a favourite among audiophiles."
and the quality guide section (but I guess it depends on what you had in mind for that).
Also for "The ULTIMATE...", i am not sure about that. To me that comes accross as overselling, but perhaps others might comment on that.
But other than that, the rest of it is jusr fantastic

Glad you like it :)
Those words are merely placeholder, Phred will fix them appropiately when i give him the file for proof reading.


I think this could lead Steven into a path of much more work coming from issues raised by audiophiles.  Not saying that there aren't already audiophiles using MB, but if MB is pushed as an audiophile tool, requests for fixes and enhancements may push Steven over the edge.
I directly copy and pasted it from the current website's feature page :P

Quote
If "ULTIMATE" is going to be used, and I too am not sure it should, then it should be "unlimate" no caps.  Or perhaps only the first letter cap "Ultimate"


'Ultimate' sounds very enthusiastic to my ears, but I think it is appropriate.
Just as ultimate holiday, ultimate atmosphere, ultimate experience, etc.
Saying something like 'the best' would be very self-boasting, but this says that if you need a player/organizer, this is the ultimate one to get.
If you really don't like it, maybe change it to 'essential' or something like that?

About the 'Quality Matters' section:
The part of making an assumption on audiophiles choices could be a little bit questionable.
Maybe change it something along these lines:

Sound quality matters
Wheter you play your music on an audiophile setup or on a laptop, MusicBee is designed with the features to fulfill all those needs.

I will leave this to you guys. Phred will do the final touch.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 20, 2015, 04:28:54 PM
That is a clever and nice compromise you have worked out.

I notice the screenshot icon was also removed for newbees. Is that intentional?
That would probably be a useful feature for them to have.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 20, 2015, 04:34:08 PM
@Phred, proofreading please ;-)

File is sent to Phred now. He should be able to make those edits.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on December 20, 2015, 04:46:11 PM
Wheter you play your music on an audiophile setup or on a laptop, MusicBee is designed with the features to fulfill all those needs.

Might be worth mentioning that MusicBee can support 'bit-perfect' playback modes (ASIO and WASAPI), which is important to audiophiles.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 20, 2015, 04:46:31 PM
That is a clever and nice compromise you have worked out.
Thanks to B33Liver for the idea.

I notice the screenshot icon was also removed for newbees. Is that intentional?
That would probably be a useful feature for them to have.
I guess.. I will probably add it back in the next update.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 20, 2015, 04:51:49 PM
I can confirm that the editor box is larger and works better now.  However, there's a small "block" bottom center of the box which turns my cursor to a "link" when hovering over it.  But it's not a link.

I guess i should have used a better cursor indication(fixed for next update).
Just click on it and drag to bottom and you will be able to resize the editor. The current forum has one too...... EXCEPT IT DOES NOT WORK!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 20, 2015, 05:18:21 PM
I notice the screenshot icon was also removed for newbees. Is that intentional?
That would probably be a useful feature for them to have.
I guess.. I will probably add it back in the next update.
Yes, please do.  It's probably one of the most often asked questions/comments.  "I tried to post a screenshot but couldn't figure out how."
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 20, 2015, 05:20:17 PM
Wheter you play your music on an audiophile setup or on a laptop, MusicBee is designed with the features to fulfill all those needs.

Might be worth mentioning that MusicBee can support 'bit-perfect' playback modes (ASIO and WASAPI), which is important to audiophiles.
That's in a box in the middle of the "quality matters" section.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: redwing on December 21, 2015, 12:39:40 PM
How can I delete all my posts in this forum by just one click?
If not possible currently, can you add such a feature?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 21, 2015, 01:53:34 PM
How can I delete all my posts in this forum by just one click?
If not possible currently, can you add such a feature?

Nope. You can't. It will require a mod or some sql query on the database. which will break the forum structure. Also you will NEVER be able to delete if someone quoted your text. just not possible.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: redwing on December 21, 2015, 02:31:11 PM
How can I delete all my posts in this forum by just one click?
If not possible currently, can you add such a feature?

Nope. You can't. It will require a mod or some sql query on the database. which will break the forum structure. Also you will NEVER be able to delete if someone quoted your text. just not possible.

Then what's this about?

http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Profile#Delete_This_Account

I thought only admins have the ability of removing all posts of a member, so asked to give the same ability to the user him/herself.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 21, 2015, 02:51:17 PM
How can I delete all my posts in this forum by just one click?
If not possible currently, can you add such a feature?

Nope. You can't. It will require a mod or some sql query on the database. which will break the forum structure. Also you will NEVER be able to delete if someone quoted your text. just not possible.

Then what's this about?

http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Profile#Delete_This_Account

I thought only admins have the ability of removing all posts of a member, so asked to give the same ability to the user him/herself.

Oops, missed that. But still you wont be able to delete everything, specially if someone quoted you.
As for making the delete available for user is not my decision.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 21, 2015, 02:57:17 PM
How can I delete all my posts in this forum by just one click?
If not possible currently, can you add such a feature?
Speaking strictly for myself, why would you (of all people) want to delete all your posts from the forum?  I can understand if you've moved on from MB.  Or if you just don't want to participate in the forum any longer.  But I have learned quite a lot from your posts.  These posts may help new users discover and find things that they didn't know about.  You've posted many great items in the Tips and Tricks section.  You've left quite bit of knowledge in your wake and I'd hate to see it disappear.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: redwing on December 21, 2015, 03:16:52 PM
@AvikB;

OK, I see. Thanks for your replies!

@phred;

Simply because V3 doesn't work for me. I won't support this project any more.

I will leave my posts and skins, etc. available until v2.5 is maintained. After that, I'll remove them not to mislead people with outdated info after my withdrawal from the forum.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 21, 2015, 03:44:25 PM
Simply because V3 doesn't work for me. I won't support this project any more.

I will leave my posts and skins, etc. available until v2.5 is maintained. After that, I'll remove them not to mislead people with outdated info after my withdrawal from the forum.
this is quite dissapointing to me personally. Is there anything more you are willing to describe in terms of "V3 doesnt work for me" eg. is it technical, or that simply that there are UI descisions you dont agree with?
one of purposes of the demo version which has been running for months now has been to draw out comments and concerns from people.

Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 21, 2015, 03:58:26 PM
I will leave my posts and skins, etc. available until v2.5 is maintained. After that, I'll remove them not to mislead people with outdated info after my withdrawal from the forum.

With the new addon center(still wip), you will be able to add your addons there and select the appropriate musicbee version.
You also will be able to add any important note to user(such as that if it is not maintained any more).
For minor issues admin/mod will be able to maintain or update it(dead download links or mistakes).

Removing them completely might be a bit too much. Since if anyone in future still use version 2.5 they might be looking for your addons.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 21, 2015, 05:07:04 PM
There's something funky still going on with the notifications part of the recent forum update.  I am not getting email notifications, nor popup notifications when I have a new PM waiting.  And I am not getting email notifications when replies are posted to threads I'm watching.  This was working flawlessly with SMF 1.x.  It seemed to work briefly after the change to 2.x but now it's kind of sketchy.  The PM notifications seem to 100% never.  (Except for one PM I rec'd from Steven shortly after the upgrade.)  Subscribed thread notices seem somewhat willy-nilly.  Some I get, most I don't.  I'm looking for a common denominator here, but so far I haven't been able to pin it down.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 21, 2015, 08:53:25 PM
This is a big update. There is a completely new page for the release notes. It can edited using markup languages from the admin panel. go ahead and see for your self:
http://test.getmusicbee.com/release-note.php (http://test.getmusicbee.com/release-note.php)

Another big and final touch is done to the home page. A BIG thanks to Phred for helping me out with the corrections.

There is couple of bug fixes and enhancement is done for the home page.

For the forum there are tons of fixes. Also a new addition is code highlighting. The text editor should behave nicely while in wysiwyg mode and pasting codes. and other improvement is done to download page(mostly backend)

Now one of the HUGE improvement is the new site API. Earlier when admin add a new musicbee on the admin panel a new json file is generated, which was good and all, but it was error prone, also hard to maintain, and one BIG flaw is that you have to make that directory writable.

But as of now the api will be generated on the go, it will be much more rich and on a later date i will add addon center on the api too.

With this change some new possibilities opened like creating of badges(will do it later), or showing off your addons on your homepage(which will dynamically auto update)

I have seen members like phred, and few others like to put musicbee version on their sig. I might create musicbee version badge which will always show the latest musicbee version. so no more sig editing. :)

Hope you guys like this new update, good night.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 21, 2015, 09:08:13 PM
There's something funky still going on with the notifications part of the recent forum update.  I am not getting email notifications, nor popup notifications when I have a new PM waiting.  And I am not getting email notifications when replies are posted to threads I'm watching.  This was working flawlessly with SMF 1.x.  It seemed to work briefly after the change to 2.x but now it's kind of sketchy.  The PM notifications seem to 100% never.  (Except for one PM I rec'd from Steven shortly after the upgrade.)  Subscribed thread notices seem somewhat willy-nilly.  Some I get, most I don't.  I'm looking for a common denominator here, but so far I haven't been able to pin it down.

I will look knto it when the forum theaming is complete. Hopefully it can be fixed.
Is it same for the demo forum too?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 21, 2015, 09:10:51 PM
There's something funky still going on with the notifications part of the recent forum update.  I am not getting email notifications, nor popup notifications when I have a new PM waiting.  And I am not getting email notifications when replies are posted to threads I'm watching.  This was working flawlessly with SMF 1.x.  It seemed to work briefly after the change to 2.x but now it's kind of sketchy.  The PM notifications seem to 100% never.  (Except for one PM I rec'd from Steven shortly after the upgrade.)  Subscribed thread notices seem somewhat willy-nilly.  Some I get, most I don't.  I'm looking for a common denominator here, but so far I haven't been able to pin it down.

I will look knto it when the forum theaming is complete. Hopefully it can be fixed.
Is it same for the demo forum too?
see this topic. I think its probably the MusicBee hosting company at fault:
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=17065.0
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 21, 2015, 09:30:11 PM
see this topic. I think its probably the MusicBee hosting company at fault:
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=17065.0
Well i guess only your hosting company can solve this if the server is blacklisted.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 21, 2015, 09:31:48 PM
It's a little tough to tell if it's happening on the new forum as there's no real traffic there yet.  I do know of one other user who is not getting notifications from this (the current) forum, but we're both content to wait and see what happens when the switch is made. 
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 21, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
I have seen members like phred, and few others like to put musicbee version on their sig. I might create musicbee version badge which will always show the latest musicbee version. so no more sig editing. :)
Quite frankly, once I had the sig set, I never had to edit it as the link was static.  MB patches were also posted to the same link.  Personally, I'll hold any judgement about the badges until I see them. 
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 21, 2015, 09:53:57 PM
A few cosmetic observations on the dark theme for the forum:

1.
The drop down line appearing with suggested names for the recipient is very hard to read.
Also it extends very wide to the right beyond the border of the specific pane.

(http://i.imgur.com/HNxvs3ol.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/HNxvs3o.png)

2.
When the recipient has been selected, he disappears from the 'To' field, and is relocated somewhere below under BCC, which gives the impression that that member will be bcc'ed, instead of being the main recipient.

(http://i.imgur.com/n0H3Tv6l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/n0H3Tv6.png)


3.
Some coloring might be improved on.
1 and 2 are difficult to read.
3, the green and red buttons kind of stick out like a sore thumb on this dark theme.

(http://i.imgur.com/ECKNDQgl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/ECKNDQg.png)

4.
This one is not about cosmetics;
I would prefer having CC as a (primary) option, not BCC, since I believe the need for CC will be much higher than for BCC.
Also I feel BCC is a bit of a dishonest way of using mailing/posting which should be avoided as much as possible.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 05:37:54 AM
Quite frankly, once I had the sig set, I never had to edit it as the link was static.  MB patches were also posted to the same link.  Personally, I'll hold any judgement about the badges until I see them. 
huh, i never noticed that the url don't change :S , but still you need to update the info on the sig tho.
It is mostly a side project than the site. The API was simply built to make maintenance much more easier for me, but i will make some badges and referral (or support images) for musicbee.

It should be glorious when done. I will listen to the community for what to include or what to not :)


for those that are interested, the api request will return json format, i have no plan for xml format but if needed it can be extended.
here is one of the request for getting release info, it returns both stable and beta info, including download link and warning message and other:
http://test.getmusicbee.com/api.get.php?type=json&action=release-info (http://test.getmusicbee.com/api.get.php?type=json&action=release-info)


the type is json (needed) and the action parameter will request for certain task in future.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 05:45:20 AM
The drop down line appearing with suggested names for the recipient is very hard to read.
Also it extends very wide to the right beyond the border of the specific pane.


2.
When the recipient has been selected, he disappears from the 'To' field, and is relocated somewhere below under BCC, which gives the impression that that member will be bcc'ed, instead of being the main recipient.

3.
Some coloring might be improved on.
1 and 2 are difficult to read.
3, the green and red buttons kind of stick out like a sore thumb on this dark theme.

This one is not about cosmetics;
I would prefer having CC as a (primary) option, not BCC, since I believe the need for CC will be much higher than for BCC.
Also I feel BCC is a bit of a dishonest way of using mailing/posting which should be avoided as much as possible.

Thanks for reporting those issues, they are fixed for the next update
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE IS LIVE FOR TESTING] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 08:26:40 AM
A few cosmetic observations on the dark theme for the forum:
1.
The drop down line appearing with suggested names for the recipient is very hard to read.
Also it extends very wide to the right beyond the border of the specific pane.

2.
When the recipient has been selected, he disappears from the 'To' field, and is relocated somewhere below under BCC, which gives the impression that that member will be bcc'ed, instead of being the main recipient.

3.
Some coloring might be improved on.
1 and 2 are difficult to read.
3, the green and red buttons kind of stick out like a sore thumb on this dark theme.

4.
This one is not about cosmetics;
I would prefer having CC as a (primary) option, not BCC, since I believe the need for CC will be much higher than for BCC.
Also I feel BCC is a bit of a dishonest way of using mailing/posting which should be avoided as much as possible.

Another update pushed and those bugs are squashed without any mercy ;)
some additional fix and tweaks are also in this update.

Let me know if you find more bugs.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 09:23:03 AM
i have added some more musicbee version(which does not exists, just for demonstration purpose), and a release note is automatically generated.
One major bug fixed, where the major versions are not marked major and minor versions are showing as major.

if you don't mention any release note it will automatically show a black box with text mentioning the release is a minor one.
You will be able to jump to any specific version release note by selecting it from the dropdown.

http://test.getmusicbee.com/release-note.php (http://test.getmusicbee.com/release-note.php)
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 22, 2015, 10:12:11 AM
Thnx for getting the cosmetic bugs in line.
And a few new observations:

1.
When logged in on the forum, I see no 'messaging center'. I believe a number is shown with the little guy icon when you received a message, but otherwise I can find no direct link to go to your messages to e.g. create a new one.

2.
I notice it is still BCC. Do you intend to change to CC, or have you decided against that suggestion?

3.
When using the dark theme, I notice sometimes a child board button has a slightly lighter font color. That is probably meant to indicate something, but in the light theme I notice no such font color/brightness differences.

(http://i.imgur.com/qeAqj7Js.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/qeAqj7J.png)


4.
The 'remove' buttons here could probably be graphically improved a bit to be a little bit clearer.

(http://i.imgur.com/5B4UmNvs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/5B4UmNv.png)

5.
And some nutritious baby-bugs for you concerning some locations having those ugly-edgy fonts:

(http://i.imgur.com/gkhqMrus.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/gkhqMru.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/x8mI2Lms.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/x8mI2Lm.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/Vi79YuEs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Vi79YuE.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/zKHwZHus.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/zKHwZHu.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/r2x70mds.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/r2x70md.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/2MjYIs3s.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/2MjYIs3.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/ftdYCD2s.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/ftdYCD2.png)
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 10:30:02 AM
When logged in on the forum, I see no 'messaging center'. I believe a number is shown with the little guy icon when you received a message, but otherwise I can find no direct link to go to your messages to e.g. create a new one.
Yes as of now it will show the numbers when you ONLY receive a new message. I have removed the 0 beside the bell since there is no point of showing it.

I notice it is still BCC. Do you intend to change to CC, or have you decided against that suggestion?
I haven't look into this. It should be fixed in the next update.


When using the dark theme, I notice sometimes a child board button has a slightly lighter font color. That is probably meant to indicate something, but in the light theme I notice no such font color/brightness differences.
If you visited the link one, it will have dim color(it is the only difference between the light and dark theme, i probably wont fix it, as it is not a bug nor intended), other than that when a new post is made to a child board, that child board will have a bolder font.


The 'remove' buttons here could probably be graphically improved a bit to be a little bit clearer.
It is the default one smf uses. But yeah i will change them in the next update.

And some nutritious baby-bugs for you concerning some locations having those ugly-edgy fonts:

i will fix them when the theme is complete.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 22, 2015, 10:35:04 AM
When logged in on the forum, I see no 'messaging center'. I believe a number is shown with the little guy icon when you received a message, but otherwise I can find no direct link to go to your messages to e.g. create a new one.
Yes as of now it will show the numbers when you ONLY receive a new message. I have removed the 0 beside the bell since there is no point of showing it.

Yes, but suppose:
You login to the forum, have no new messages, and want to create a PM.
How do you get to your 'message center' to do that?

edit:
Fuggedabout it. I now see a 'bell' icon at the top menu.
I would swear it wasn't there earlier, but it's probably me.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 10:47:07 AM
Yes, but suppose:
You login to the forum, have no new messages, and want to create a PM.
How do you get to your 'message center' to do that?

Here is the future plan for the notification:
when a user clicks on the notification icon at the top a drop down will show where you will be able to see a glance of old and new message without going to forum's message center. there will be option to create a message(which will redirect you to forum's message center).

More advance function such as reply from the dropdown or mark them read will come later. :)

AND
I just looked into the cc, bcc matter. Curently that field you are referring as bcc is actually cc, you have to click on the add bcc to add bcc.
After steven updated the current forum to 2.0.11, it should have also showed the same option, but didn't so i did some check and find out the current forum's message page has 2 errors about being failed to use some certain script that is responsible for using that cc/bcc function.

(http://i.imgur.com/QtdEHz1.jpg)
this is the error(and the script) that is responsible for the cc/bcc function as well as suggestion.
but it is broken in the current forum. :/
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 10:48:51 AM
Fuggedabout it. I now see a 'bell' icon at the top menu.
I would swear it wasn't there earlier, but it's probably me.

The only issue i can think is the cache. The icon is actually a font(not image), so the cache needs to rebuild.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 22, 2015, 11:02:06 AM
I just looked into the cc, bcc matter. Curently that field you are referring as bcc is actually cc, you have to click on the add bcc to add bcc.

Maybe I am a bit thick, but I don't see a field referencing anything concerning cc at all.
All you can do is add more recipients.

(http://i.imgur.com/sMNAoZVl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/sMNAoZV.png)
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 12:10:29 PM
I just looked into the cc, bcc matter. Curently that field you are referring as bcc is actually cc, you have to click on the add bcc to add bcc.

Maybe I am a bit thick, but I don't see a field referencing anything concerning cc at all.
All you can do is add more recipients.

(http://i.imgur.com/sMNAoZVl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/sMNAoZV.png)

Isn't To and CC are same ? Bcc only prevents you from sending other recipent's email to the sender.
I am not much into mailing stuff, so correct me if i am wrong.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 12:11:56 PM
Also does the current forum has any cc stuff? Cause i cant see it. It is the same as demo forum
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 12:19:36 PM
Here is an explanatio fro how to geek about cc and to

Quote
The To and CC fields work similarly. Whether you put four email addresses in the To field or put one email address in the To field and three in the CC field, the four people will all receive the same email. They’ll also be able to see every other recipients’ email address.
 
When it comes to email etiquette, the To field is generally used for the main recipients of your email. The CC field is used to send a copy to other interested parties for their information. This isn’t a concrete rule, and usage of To and CC can vary.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 22, 2015, 12:46:13 PM
There are a few important differences between To, Cc and Bcc

With Cc, you inform others besides the main recipient.
Then the main recipient knows that that message was copied to other persons too, and the other person(s) know that they were purily 'informed', and they are not specifically required to respond to that message.

So in our situation an example would be: I ask you a question, Cc it to another member of who I know is also concerned with that subject.
- You then know the other member is also informed. And you are able to Cc him too when answering so everybody is up to par about the subject.
- The person Cc'ed then is informed about the subject being under discussion, but he is not specifically required to respond.


With Bcc, it is about secrecy.
The recipient will never know the message was shared with somebody else.
I can only think of using that when 'warning' or 'reprimanding' a forum member in the capacity of moderator, and you want to inform other moderators about it.


This is common practice in e-mailing. With fora, I am not a big pm'er myself, so it could well be that this might work slightly different there.
But I would assume it should work the same.

ps
Also note the correct capitalization of Cc and Bcc I used in this posting  ;-)
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 22, 2015, 01:10:48 PM
Another request comes to mind.

As a moderator, once in a while you have to move a post from one thread to another because the poster choose the wrong thread/board to post it.
It would be decent to inform the OP by PM that that was done, so he might learn from it, and he can find his post in the new location.

With the current forum when moving such a post, you can only select to inform about moving the post in the thread itself, so leaving traces of that in the thread you were trying to keep clean in the first place.

I sometimes inform the OP by sending a PM when I relocated his post, but that is an effort I could do without.
Does the new forum engine allow to have a simple checkbox in the 'move post' pane called something like "inform OP about his post being moved"?
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 01:14:47 PM
Well,since the current forum have no Cc field, i cant add it. I think To and Cc should do the same job as it is available.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on December 22, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
Well,since the current forum have no Cc field, i cant add it. I think To and Cc should do the same job as it is available.

Ok, thnx for looking into this.
It seems SMF just has a crippled implementation of the To/Cc/Bcc concept.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 02:16:44 PM
Another request comes to mind.

As a moderator, once in a while you have to move a post from one thread to another because the poster choose the wrong thread/board to post it.
It would be decent to inform the OP by PM that that was done, so he might learn from it, and he can find his post in the new location.

With the current forum when moving such a post, you can only select to inform about moving the post in the thread itself, so leaving traces of that in the thread you were trying to keep clean in the first place.

I sometimes inform the OP by sending a PM when I relocated his post, but that is an effort I could do without.
Does the new forum engine allow to have a simple checkbox in the 'move post' pane called something like "inform OP about his post being moved"?

If it is a option available then it should be done, otherwise if smf removed it, well then it is not possible.

you might wanna try asking steven for this, he might know if it os available or not.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 22, 2015, 02:22:12 PM
Well,since the current forum have no Cc field, i cant add it. I think To and Cc should do the same job as it is available.

Ok, thnx for looking into this.
It seems SMF just has a crippled implementation of the To/Cc/Bcc concept.

I guess it confuses regular user too much, for the next smf version(2.1) they have revamped the messaging center a lot.
I will probably make another theme for it when released. and upgrade to that.
Title: Re: [BUG FIX UPDATE FOR FORUM AND RELEASE NOTE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 25, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
This is a big update! Addon dashboard demo is alive...sort of
The addon dashboard is in readonly mode for now, since i haven't implemented any security checks yet. It should be fully up in a week or so. This is more of a preview.

Addon dashboard have some exciting feature(most of them are disabled in the preview :P),
but things that work is the new ajaxified navigation, and musicbee version availability for dashboard, which can be controlled via admin panel by Steven (or any admin),
when steven uploads a new musicbee version he can choose to mark it as major(which will make it available for addon devs to target via dashboard).
also the new imgur upload from the addon center(it is awesome :) ), devs will be able to add maximum of 8 screenshots for preview(let me know if more needed).

(http://i.imgur.com/BxjKiLn.jpg)

The new markdown editor is here, it does not support imgur upload yet(will come later), try it. BTW the undo does not work, i haven't fixed it yet(will do when i finished the dashboard).
(http://i.imgur.com/ot4Bx8B.jpg)

Also the release note page received some minor bug fixes.

Another major change that NO ONE WILL NOTICE, is that the new site is moving toward multilingual pages. I have made a single language file for the site, later on if someone from the community is interested he will able to translate the site.

Some code refactoring for better maintainability.
Forum bug fixes.
Few things to note, once you go to:
http://test.getmusicbee.com/addon-dashboard.php (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addon-dashboard.php)
An addon account will be automatically created. It uses forum authentication, so a forum account is needed(you also have to login from the forum too),

There is a reported issue tab on the dashboard, which will be removed in later update as issue reporting will be done through forum.

DO NOT SUGGEST ANY SPELLING MISTAKE
but any suggestion to improve wording is welcome, later on phred will finalizing them.

and Merry Christmas everyone :)
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on December 26, 2015, 09:11:41 AM
@AvikB,
this is just to confirm i understand the process around addons and skins
- the same process applies to skins and to addons
- a developer creates a topic on the forum for their initial skin/ addon
- 1) the forum add-on version can go through a number of iterations on the forum
- when the developer feels the skin/ addon is ready, he can use this dashboard submit the skin/addon
- question: does an admin(/ moderator?) need to give that user any permissions beforehand or can anyone submit a skin/ addon?
- then an admin(/ moderator) accepts the submission so it now appears on the main web-site Skin/ Addons link
- if further changes are made, then the steps from 1) are repeated
- i noticed a "Reported Issues" link - how do you see that working? I would have thought that reporting issues on the forum topic would be best for that
- this is where i am quite hazy - you mentioned about linking the Addon(/ skins?) to a major musicbee version. Could you explain this some more
- as a FYI: i try to make sure all MB versions are backwards compatible with old plugins. For v3, there are a couple of my last.fm plugins that will break and need a new version. But thats the exception rather than the rule. For skins, although they wont break with v3,a number wont work very well. I'm not sure we need to tie skins to major MB versions
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 26, 2015, 10:09:56 AM
@AvikB,
this is just to confirm i understand the process around addons and skins
- the same process applies to skins and to addons
Yes, pretty much, when choosing skin few more fileds(like colors, theme... these optional fields) will show up(haven't implemented it yet, WIP), as for other kinds of addons, yes those will be the all of the process.

- a developer creates a topic on the forum for their initial skin/ addon
- 1) the forum add-on version can go through a number of iterations on the forum
- when the developer feels the skin/ addon is ready, he can use this dashboard submit the skin/addon
Yes, this is the process i am targetting

- question: does an admin(/ moderator?) need to give that user any permissions beforehand or can anyone submit a skin/ addon?
When you go to dashboard you can see your rank there, for now there are four ranks, Admin, Mod, Elite, Newbie.
For Newbie users, they can add/update addon BUT admin/mod have to review and allow it, admin/mod can allow it through dashboard(WIP).
For Elite User they can add or update any addon as they fit.

WHEN a newbie users has atleast of 5 addon(could be any category skin, visualizer, plugins, theater mode but Equalizer does not count) on their dashboard, they will be able to add/update addons easily.

For Elite rank, you need atleast 20 addon(equalizer does not count) to get that rank.

All these 5 addon, 20 addon requirement is a example, you can suggest me the amount that required. It is just an example of how the system works.

- then an admin(/ moderator) accepts the submission so it now appears on the main web-site Skin/ Addons link
- if further changes are made, then the steps from 1) are repeated
If the user updates the addon but does not have more that 5 addon, mods/admin will need to re-allow them.
Alternatively, if a member is trusted, but doesn't have 5 addons,  admin (only admin) will be able to remove this restriction from their profile.


- i noticed a "Reported Issues" link - how do you see that working? I would have thought that reporting issues on the forum topic would be best for that
Yes, it will get removed in next update, forum will be used as default issue reporting place.
Right now it serves me as a debug page :P

- this is where i am quite hazy - you mentioned about linking the Addon(/ skins?) to a major musicbee version. Could you explain this some more
- as a FYI: i try to make sure all MB versions are backwards compatible with old plugins. For v3, there are a couple of my last.fm plugins that will break and need a new version. But thats the exception rather than the rule. For skins, although they wont break with v3,a number wont work very well. I'm not sure we need to tie skins to major MB versions
Here is the idea behind the major version idea:
When most software gets major updates, things brake, skins will have rendering glitches, some plugin might not work/unstable, and those older skins/plugins won't support the latest api or changes for the musicbee.
And what happens when a addon uses the latest api, but the end user have a older musicbee version, things wont work properly.
And this creates quite a bit of problem for end user. When you add a major musicbee update to admin panel it will be automatically added on dashboard, devs can target those latest major changes(using the new api, or panels) and also let the user know what major version needed for it to work.

OFC, devs will be able to choose any amount of musicbee version, if their skin/addons works with all of them.

You can remove any MusicBee version from the dashboard by going to all musicbee release tab in the admin panel and edit them(unchecking the dashboard availability).

The main reason for this is to better maintainability for FUTURE. OFC devs can also add a important note in the dashboard of their addon, if any confusion appears.(which i forgot to add in the demo :P)
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 26, 2015, 01:24:12 PM
- question: does an admin(/ moderator?) need to give that user any permissions beforehand or can anyone submit a skin/ addon?
When you go to dashboard you can see your rank there, for now there are four ranks, Admin, Mod, Elite, Newbie.
For Newbie users, they can add/update addon BUT admin/mod have to review and allow it, admin/mod can allow it through dashboard(WIP).
For Elite User they can add or update any addon as they fit.

WHEN a newbie users has atleast of 5 addon(could be any category skin, visualizer, plugins, theater mode but Equalizer does not count) on their dashboard, they will be able to add/update addons easily.

For Elite rank, you need atleast 20 addon(equalizer does not count) to get that rank.

All these 5 addon, 20 addon requirement is a example, you can suggest me the amount that required. It is just an example of how the system works.
What is the purpose of this?  Why is this necessary?  What is the thinking behind it?
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 26, 2015, 04:15:09 PM
What is the purpose of this?  Why is this necessary?  What is the thinking behind it?

Spam prevention, flood gate control, only useful and complete addons are allowed, making sure addons are safe. No this wont prevent malicious addon but a reminder that in we will atleast check basic things like links and images(like no nude girl images).
Also keeping the addon center clean while the submitted data(which end user sees) is good enough, or if they are relevant.

Also if some one from the community is willing to check(like testing them in VM for viruses or if it work properly) the addons before submitting them it is a bonus, no way needed though.
It just like forum moderation only you don't have to through searching for posts for spams or malicious links in their sigs.
You can see all the pending addons (only mods/admin) that needs approval. Just one mouse click and done. or reject them. as simple as that.

Existing active addon devs will be granted elite status by their contribution value.

This feature is intended to keep the addon center in control.
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 26, 2015, 05:26:32 PM
Just my two cents here, but we've never had problems such as you describe before.  It seems to me we're putting more restrictions in the way of users who are trying to contribute to the MB community.  It's not my decision to implement this or not, but I feel that I have to say something.
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 26, 2015, 05:47:04 PM
Just my two cents here, but we've never had problems such as you describe before.  It seems to me we're putting more restrictions in the way of users who are trying to contribute to the MB community.  It's not my decision to implement this or not, but I feel that I have to say something.
The restrictions are only when the devs want it to available in the addon center. But they can use the forum for their base ground and only add when it gets popular or it is really good.
I do understand your point about putting user off, but it is darn simple actually no strict check or pay to submit stuff, they just submit, mod or admin checks if the info that is provided ok(and the link works) and allow. No more complicated stuff.

This means they will atleast have to provide some info for users(like description, images, maybe a readme), i don't want users to wonder of what this addon is about and what it looks like(something i wonder a lot) or if this requires anything additional. The mod check will make sure everything that serves to user is not incomplete(or mod/admin can even edit or modify them).

Just because spam is not much of threat now in the forum does not mean no extra check on the dashboard.

For new users i will also add another restriction, and that is they can only submit 20 addon a day and update them total 50times max a day, also direct image upload will support only 40 times a day(i will reduce it once it hits specific traffic).
This is maintain floodgate and database load, also the imgur upload api is limited(i can request a bigger capacity token, which is also free, but will do only when it reaches the cap),

I highly doubt anyone will use it to its full capacity, but this will prevent huge database load and keep the floodgate under control.
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on December 28, 2015, 02:57:55 AM
@Steven, AvikB
I just realized there's no MusicBee logo on the new website.  Nor on the new forum.  Is this intentional or an oversight?
Title: Re: [ADDON DASHBOARD DEMO IS ALIVE...sort of] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on December 28, 2015, 08:43:35 AM
@Steven, AvikB
I just realized there's no MusicBee logo on the new website.  Nor on the new forum.  Is this intentional or an oversight?
Haven't decided a new logo(modern version of the current one), will do it at the last stage.
Title: Re: [HUGE UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 05:31:11 AM
This is a huge update, the dashboard is now finally live, here is what is functional:
 -Addon submission is working properly
 -Dashboard security in place, i will go into detail a bit later
 -The popup image upload/edit duologue is improved and has better looks and styling, also is mobile friendly.
 -With Addon Submission working, the addon view page is also working.
 -A LOTS of bug fixes
-And a nice 404 error page! go to http://test.getmusicbee.com/help.php (http://test.getmusicbee.com/help.php) to check it out!

and there are lots of other changes, i can't remember. Also the dashboard is now optimized.

Few restriction that i decided to remove and put:
 -Every user will be able to add their own addon
 -Depends on their rank their submission will be auto accepted or needs mod approval.
 -For users that need mod approval, they can add 10 addon to approval queue at a time, when their addons approved they can add another 10 in the approval queue.
 
also for this demo purpose anyone can see the unapproved addon page, if the link is shared.
currently the explore page for addons is not done, so i haven't included it yet, after you submit an addon go to View all addons tab and click on the go to addon page to view the page. Also you CAN NOT update your addon info YET! it will come later.

here is a demo page that i created from the dashboard: http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php?id=1 (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php?id=1)


also i need few suggestion:
currently for adding an addon, you have to upload the addon to some external site then paste the link, i am thinking of adding something better. After reading through boroda74's addon plugin, he choose google drive for this, so i did some research in this matter, and it seems it is possible to add direct upload to google drive, like imgur. This is better as it means a central repo for all the addons, and in future the addon can be downloaded/browse from within the musicbee(with some addon) without the need to visit the site.

so what do you guys think? if it is allright for steven and other members i will add it. Also you don't need any google account for this.

As for addon dashboard, if you have new feature request, or some better suggestion let me know.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 02, 2016, 10:21:29 AM
i would like to spend time checking this out but right now i am quite swamped
i hope to check it out in the next few days
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 11:08:59 AM
i would like to spend time checking this out but right now i am quite swamped
i hope to check it out in the next few days
Take your time, i will do some tweaking and fixing bugs and adding few more features.

UPDATE: pushed a hotfix for some issues, fixed some styling, and whitelisted some user input and added html5 attribute support in htmlpurifier, support forum link url should be correct now.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 02, 2016, 11:25:05 AM
FYI, the hand gesture shown here:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6397385/Save%20Pics/00%20MusicBee%20picture.jpg)

In some cultures, South Asian particularly, is considered patently offensive.  It refers to female genitalia in a derogatory way.  It is demeaning and hurtful to women there, who already face many obstacles to just getting along without harassment. 

As this site has an international audience, you might consider changing that pic. 
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 02, 2016, 01:05:56 PM
if this is true then a new picture would be needed which is a shame as it looks really good.
does anyone know a good source for free stock images?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 02, 2016, 02:51:48 PM
if this is true then a new picture would be needed which is a shame as it looks really good.
does anyone know a good source for free stock images?
While I don't know a good source for free stock images, I did confirm with a friend that the current image is close enough to be considered offensive by some.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 03:31:02 PM
if this is true then a new picture would be needed which is a shame as it looks really good.
does anyone know a good source for free stock images?
While I don't know a good source for free stock images, I did confirm with a friend that the current image is close enough to be considered offensive by some.

....culture sure makes thing difficult for a dev :P .....
but here is a good source, and the the ONLY BEST source for webdevs, also it has "do what you want" license and really high quality images:
http://unsplash.com/ (http://unsplash.com/)

suggest me any pics that you guys like.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 02, 2016, 03:47:45 PM
suggest me any pics that you guys like.

If you are looking for something similar, perhaps this:
http://www.goodwp.com/music/16590-light-hands-concert-scene.html
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 04:01:24 PM
suggest me any pics that you guys like.

If you are looking for something similar, perhaps this:
http://www.goodwp.com/music/16590-light-hands-concert-scene.html

What is the license of that wallpaper?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 02, 2016, 04:23:07 PM
What is the license of that wallpaper?

That's not very clear to me.
But at the bottom of that page it says:

"GoodWP.com - HD desktop wallpapers
Download wallpaper scene, light, hands, concert for free with resolution 1920x1080 pix"

And there is no mention anywhere about any possible legal restrictions.
But if that website as a whole is trustworthy, I don't know really.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 02, 2016, 04:53:38 PM
You can do a Google image search with a license filter (and size).

1. Search "concert crowd" and pick "images" on Google.

2. Once you're there, click on "search tools"

3. Pick a "Size" and filter by "Usage Rights"

Lots of interesting images labelled for reuse (CC license), like this one for example which is license as CC-SA:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8460/7968954274_cb3e6a21cf.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/d9bYtm)

the audience is shaking ( #CC ) (https://flic.kr/p/d9bYtm) by Martin Fisch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/marfis75/), on Flickr

Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 04:56:01 PM
That's not very clear to me.
But at the bottom of that page it says:

"GoodWP.com - HD desktop wallpapers
Download wallpaper scene, light, hands, concert for free with resolution 1920x1080 pix"

And there is no mention anywhere about any possible legal restrictions.
But if that website as a whole is trustworthy, I don't know really.

After looking through their site, i found that their wallpapers are user submitted and does not contain any licensing terms whatsoever, so it means any user can upload a stock photos, which i can not use as it may cause legal issue at later date.

Suggest me a good image from the link i have posted. their licensing is better.

EDIT:
You can do a Google image search with a license filter (and size).

1. Search "concert crowd" and pick "images" on Google.

2. Once you're there, click on "search tools"

3. Pick a "Size" and filter by "Usage Rights"

Lots of interesting images labelled for reuse (CC license), like this one for example which is license as CC-SA:

Thanks, i think the licensing is appropriate and if everyone agrees i will use this:
how it looks

(http://i.imgur.com/4BmlRJR.jpg)

Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 02, 2016, 05:13:09 PM
+1 from me
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 02, 2016, 06:16:02 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to use an image more related to home audio (like headphones or a photo of a nice high end audio setup)? I can see how the live crowd relays an idea of excitement and joy, but it's 1. not very related to MB 2. it looks rather bland.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 02, 2016, 06:37:06 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to use an image more related to home audio (like headphones or a photo of a nice high end audio setup)? I can see how the live crowd relays an idea of excitement and joy, but it's 1. not very related to MB 2. it looks rather bland.
I agree with vpsaxman.

And 3) the new image contains -almost- the same potentially offense hand gesture.
I'd also suggest, in the interest of being politically correct, deleting the initial image so no one gets offended.
(http://i.imgur.com/NzvCXFkl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/NzvCXFk.jpg)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 02, 2016, 07:00:46 PM
And in some countries music is forbidden.
Come on. We can't please 100% of the people.

I think this is already looking quite good, and bringing across enthusiasm and enjoying music very well.
Also AvikV has been quite clear he's open to any sort of pictures or images suggested by anyone.

Yet I do agree with the sentiment that the picture is showing a slightly narrow aspect, namely live pop music.
So if somebody could present a good photo/illustration representing some more diversity with pop/classical/electro/live/studio/concert/home etc. that might be even better.
But it would take some skills and talent to do that in one image without getting crowded and messy.
Or, use this picture as the main background picture, and try to insert and present a few others in a tasteful manner. (sliding? fading in/out?)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 02, 2016, 07:03:55 PM
How about something more like this (but with a better image):

(http://i.imgur.com/40XAtGw.png)

There is a ton of CC license photos on Flickr and they're easy to search and filter by license too.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 02, 2016, 07:10:21 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Bn5EXcz.png)

Too bad it's a Mac in the background, which could be misleading.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 02, 2016, 07:10:44 PM
How about something more like this (but with a better image):

That's also beautiful. Maybe have that in some gradient overflow with the current candidate picture?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 10:49:00 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Bn5EXcz.png)

Too bad it's a Mac in the background, which could be misleading.
ahh, i like this image, clean and elegant! how about this:
(http://i.imgur.com/aOzr7qm.jpg)

no more apple logo!
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 10:58:18 PM
That's also beautiful. Maybe have that in some gradient overflow with the current candidate picture?

what do you mean about having the grad overflow?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 11:09:18 PM
And in some countries music is forbidden.
Come on. We can't please 100% of the people.
wait there are countries with music ban? that is outrageous!
i agree we can't please 100%, but i think a compromise to not keep the offending image would be a good choice.

Yet I do agree with the sentiment that the picture is showing a slightly narrow aspect, namely live pop music.
So if somebody could present a good photo/illustration representing some more diversity with pop/classical/electro/live/studio/concert/home etc. that might be even better.
But it would take some skills and talent to do that in one image without getting crowded and messy.
Or, use this picture as the main background picture, and try to insert and present a few others in a tasteful manner. (sliding? fading in/out?)

i am afraid we are out of the image slider option at this point, i would love to add one, but i can't exceed the optimization lavel i am targeting, the current home page already has several images, and it takes a bit to load them on slow internet, and third world countries have slow connection(30kb/s), so adding more image is already out of the window.

currently the the musicbee screenshots(png files) are the worst optimized, each of them takes about 500kb, i will have some better screenshots in there(which will be optimized) when the site is atleast 98% complete.

Well to get best images you will need to hunt filckr or other sites that have suitable licensing, which i won't be doing now as i already am busy with dashboard. But you guys can suggest me one if you found one.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 02, 2016, 11:12:57 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to use an image more related to home audio (like headphones or a photo of a nice high end audio setup)? I can see how the live crowd relays an idea of excitement and joy, but it's 1. not very related to MB 2. it looks rather bland.
i do agree, i like the ones you suggested to me, i have also removed the apple logo. If that is suitable i would use it.

And 3) the new image contains -almost- the same potentially offense hand gesture.
I'd also suggest, in the interest of being politically correct, deleting the initial image so no one gets offended.
hmm..... i knew someone would point it :P
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 03, 2016, 12:21:07 AM
ahh, i like this image, clean and elegant! how about this:
(http://i.imgur.com/aOzr7qm.jpg)

no more apple logo!

Yeah I like this one as well. Like you said, minimal and straight to the point. This is the kind of setting I can picture most MB user using.

The license for that picture is CC0 1.0 Universal (CC0 1.0) (http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/) so we should be good with using it and modifying it.

The question now is, even with the apple gone, would it be misleading for someone who doesn't know MusicBee and is an Apple user? It seems to me the focus of the image is more on the speaker so it could be suitable.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 03, 2016, 12:26:35 AM
This is the kind of setting I can picture most MB user using.
It would be dream to have a setup like this(except for the mac part, i am windows only person) :)

The question now is, even with the apple gone, would it be misleading for someone who doesn't know MusicBee and is an Apple user? It seems to me the focus of the image is more on the speaker so it could be suitable.
I don't think that would be a problem, there is a giant download now button saying that it is for windows user.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 03, 2016, 12:28:46 AM


It would be dream to have a setup like this(except for the mac part, i am windows only person) :)
Wouldn't it be nice indeed? :)

I don't think that would be a problem, there is a giant download now button saying that it is for windows user.
Right. Well, I dig that picture but there are many more options if anyone can find a better one.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 03, 2016, 01:00:22 AM
I don't think that would be a problem, there is a giant download now button saying that it is for windows user.
Right. Well, I dig that picture but there are many more options if anyone can find a better one.
well it is upto you guys, if most people agree on this, i can make the change permanent.

UPDATE:
few things i forgot, that was included in the last update.
I am dropping support for browsers that has JAVASCRIPT DISABLED, while they can still browse few core pages of the site, like home page, forum, download page they will get an error at the top telling them that javascript is needed.

Few pages that can't be used is: admin panel, addon page, dashboard, release note page and most of the other page that will be introduced later.

I am also dropping support for most older IE browsers out there, only IE10 or above and any other modern browser is supported.

to check this simply disable javascript in your browser and visit the demo site, you should be able to see a warning. While i can add fallback for no javascript browsers, i won't do it. It is tremendous amount of work to rewrite few core structures. and i am not willing to do it.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 03, 2016, 07:53:22 AM
Another update, This update brings some breaking changes. Previously the site urls tends to look like this:
OLD URL STRUCTURE
        http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php?id=1
        http://test.getmusicbee.com/download.php
and so...

NEW URL STRUCTURE
       http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1/win10-style/
       http://test.getmusicbee.com/download

the new structure looks more beautiful and catchy, it provides a lots of benefit(i am not going to go through them), BUT with this changes few things did broke, i fixed all of them so the site should work normally. also even with this BREAKING CHANGES, you can still visit by the old url, and everything should work properly, i made sure the backward compatibility is there.

another thing:
lets say we got this url:
http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1/win10-style/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1/win10-style/)

and user may forgot what is the last text or made some typo
http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1/this-is-a-typo-blah-blah/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1/this-is-a-typo-blah-blah/)
or
http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1 (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1)
or
http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php?id=1 (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php?id=1)

every one of this will point to the same page, not only that upon visiting any of these mistaken url, you will automatically redirect to the correct url(301 permanent redirect, better for search engine).


And the home page is updated with the non-offensive image.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 03, 2016, 09:07:42 AM
That's also beautiful. Maybe have that in some gradient overflow with the current candidate picture?
what do you mean about having the grad overflow?

I was thinking about using two or three different pictures, and blending them into one.
E.g. using such two pictures:

(http://i.imgur.com/UGvHM6hl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UGvHM6h.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/rj3Z9EAl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/rj3Z9EA.png)

And combining them to such:

(http://i.imgur.com/qdUALCSl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/qdUALCS.jpg)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 03, 2016, 01:13:43 PM
^^^Put somebody in that chair wearing headphones and you'll have it.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 03, 2016, 01:23:53 PM
^^^Put somebody in that chair wearing headphones and you'll have it.

That was exactly what was in my mind too ;-)
But that is really way beyond my Photoshopping skills.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 03, 2016, 01:33:17 PM
^^^Put somebody in that chair wearing headphones and you'll have it.

That was exactly what was in my mind too ;-)
But that is really way beyond my Photoshopping skills.

;-)

(http://i.imgur.com/01Mkgtnl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/01Mkgtn.jpg)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 03, 2016, 04:38:10 PM
That was exactly what was in my mind too ;-)
But that is really way beyond my Photoshopping skills.

;-)
[/quote]

I am not really fond of that crowd blending with the wall, it just does not look right to me, i do like the man in the chair though :)
but clearly someone better at photoshop needs to do this work.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 03, 2016, 04:40:35 PM
That was exactly what was in my mind too ;-)
But that is really way beyond my Photoshopping skills.

;-)

I am not really fond of that crowd blending with the wall, it just does not look right to me, i do like the man in the chair though :)
but clearly someone better at photoshop needs to do this work.
[/quote]

Thnx for the compliment.
It was not worth putting any serious effort in the man in the chair, since it comes from a licensed commercial photograph.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 03, 2016, 05:47:24 PM
Thnx for the compliment.
It was not worth putting any serious effort in the man in the chair, since it comes from a licensed commercial photograph.

well then i will keep the current one, it is good enough and not offensive.

For the dashboard let me know if any additional feature is needed or any mistake/bug.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 03, 2016, 06:06:12 PM
i like the new picture except for one thing. That is the man with the big nose and backpack. In my view is diminishes the tone and effect of the picture.
If i am the only one who feels this way then i guess its ok but perhaps it could be blurred out or civered by moving the figure from the right?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 03, 2016, 09:21:01 PM
How about something like this?

image removed
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 03, 2016, 09:43:53 PM
I like this with one exception ---
Is there any way to blend the sharp edge from the concert hall image to the speaker image?  Similar to what's on the right side of that image.  The right side has a smooth transition while (I feel) the left side is rather abrupt.
(http://i.imgur.com/4r28hMWl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4r28hMW.jpg)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 03, 2016, 09:54:53 PM
When it was a picture from a concert, that said "fun and happy" which i thought was a nice message to associate with MusicBee
With the speaker on the desk (which i liked apart from the man with the backpack) the message to me was musicbee is for serious music listeners
But in my view blending the pictures just leads to a confused message.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 03, 2016, 10:01:44 PM
When it was a picture from a concert, that said "fun and happy" which i thought was a nice message to associate with MusicBee
With the speaker on the desk (which i liked apart from the man with the backpack) the message to me was musicbee is for serious music listeners
But in my view blending the pictures just leads to a confused message.
All good points.  I withdraw my request/comment.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 03, 2016, 10:02:21 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/cLPtGLC.png) (http://imgur.com/cLPtGLC)

Well, at least the guy with the headphones seems to have died a pleasant death.  ;-)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 03, 2016, 10:09:42 PM
Hey! I wasn't the one that suggested the blended images idea.
I only posted what might be done with it.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 03, 2016, 10:12:57 PM
You should know. A good deed never goes unpunished.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 04, 2016, 12:19:05 AM
and I thought the message from the blended image was quite clear:
speakers to headphones, classical or popular music - musicbee is the choice
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 02:09:26 AM
no more blended images please... also do we really need a man wearing headphones? this kind of pictures are really hard to find.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 02:19:06 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/ou5VYpw.jpg)
as some of you pointed in the past that it would be better to make it clear where the user is, so it is done and will ship into the next update.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on January 04, 2016, 02:19:50 AM
This is just an idea, but what about a photograph of MusicBee running on a PC?

Something like this;
http://static.slidetomac.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/itunes_12_imac_desktop_hero.jpg
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: BeeBeeKing on January 04, 2016, 09:59:57 AM
I like the monitor pic, makes more sense. I suggest a non branded monitor however.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: BeeBeeKing on January 04, 2016, 10:12:22 AM
Bee rather than iTunes though.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 10:32:58 AM
This is just an idea, but what about a photograph of MusicBee running on a PC?

Something like this;
http://static.slidetomac.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/itunes_12_imac_desktop_hero.jpg

while i like that idea, but it will require a photograph of someone's monitor running musicbee, which i am not sure where to get.
:(
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 10:38:36 AM
I like the monitor pic, makes more sense. I suggest a non branded monitor however.
well brands are not the issue, but yeah i will like to have a non branded monitor.

However i think a surface pro series running musicbee is the best screenshot than a non branded monitor, as their windows logo at the front is basically the paltform musicbee runs on. but clearly someone needs to provide an image.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 04, 2016, 11:02:17 AM
move the coffee cup to cover big-nose?
(http://i.imgur.com/Dh6ISQ0.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Dh6ISQ0)

otherwise I prefer this one

(http://i.imgur.com/40XAtGw.png)
 (http://imgur.com/40XAtGw)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: BeeBeeKing on January 04, 2016, 12:09:39 PM
Here's a screenshot if perhaps you can use it with another background http://www.bluesbeatradio.com/mbee/MBeescreenshot.jpg
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 01:57:34 PM
Here's a screenshot if perhaps you can use it with another background http://www.bluesbeatradio.com/mbee/MBeescreenshot.jpg

i am not sure where to put it! :/
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 01:59:43 PM
move the coffee cup to cover big-nose?

what big nose? :S
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 04, 2016, 02:16:32 PM
I think we can conclude that the democratic approach to this is not getting us very far.

Steven already said he liked the speaker/imac image, but not the nose.

I removed the nose and some other stuff from the original picture.
Not up to professional standards, but if AvikB puts the color gradient over it, I am sure it is more than good enough to use for the website.

(http://i.imgur.com/KTWDIUZl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/KTWDIUZ.jpg)

edit
Updated the picture, I also removed the sandwich from the computer, and some ugly photoshopping around the plant in the background from the original.

(http://i.imgur.com/Q89jfcsl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Q89jfcs.png)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on January 04, 2016, 03:02:21 PM
At least for me, it's easy to tell the image was photoshopped, I suggest sticking with the original or picking something else.

Should the MusicBee logo/text on the home page be a little more eye catching? I came up with this, just playing around;

(http://i.imgur.com/PALG6MDl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/PALG6MD.jpg)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 04, 2016, 03:45:50 PM
This is just an idea, but what about a photograph of MusicBee running on a PC?

Something like this;
http://static.slidetomac.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/itunes_12_imac_desktop_hero.jpg

Something like this (but better ;))

(http://i.imgur.com/MBRnovH.png)

If you guys like the idea, I could try and take a better shot (like without the ugly cables), and we could agree on a layout for the MB window.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 04, 2016, 04:19:09 PM
At least for me, it's easy to tell the image was photoshopped
But would you have been able to tell with the overlay that will be used?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 05:09:52 PM
Something like this (but better ;))
If you guys like the idea, I could try and take a better shot (like without the ugly cables), and we could agree on a layout for the MB window.

thats look nice, we just need a better angle and a speaker at the side getting most of the focus(like that mac image)
:)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 04, 2016, 05:16:37 PM
Something like this (but better ;))
If you guys like the idea, I could try and take a better shot (like without the ugly cables), and we could agree on a layout for the MB window.

thats look nice, we just need a better angle and a speaker at the side getting most of the focus(like that mac image)
:)
Well, my speakers aren't exactly the high-end type which is why I tried to avoid focusing on them. ;)

A couple of pictures I found on reddit (we'd have to ask permission to use/modify them which I'd be happy to take care of if needed):

(http://i.imgur.com/wr7wQW9.jpg?1)

(http://i.imgur.com/tE5w33B.jpg?1)

Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 05:20:49 PM
Should the MusicBee logo/text on the home page be a little more eye catching? I came up with this, just playing around;

i am not keen on having something flashy logo, i want to maintain a much more subtle and elegant design.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 04, 2016, 05:37:44 PM
move the coffee cup to cover big-nose?
(http://i.imgur.com/Dh6ISQ0.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Dh6ISQ0)
That's an elegant solution to cover the big nosed figurine.


Should the MusicBee logo/text on the home page be a little more eye catching? I came up with this, just playing around;

i am not keen on having something flashy logo, i want to maintain a much more subtle and elegant design.

Maybe just use a larger font?

(http://i.imgur.com/Y5dMg83l.png)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 05:43:46 PM
Well, my speakers aren't exactly the high-end type which is why I tried to avoid focusing on them. ;)

A couple of pictures I found on reddit (we'd have to ask permission to use/modify them which I'd be happy to take care of if needed):

unfortunately these images does not have that right angle that makes a good cover image, what i need is a side angle, with a subtle focus on the speaker and monitor(while musicbee opened),
but i highly doubt we could get this by browsing and photoshopping, we need someone who has a good setup with good speaker.

your speakers are good enough(we don't need someone with thousand dollar speaker), but it would be a hassle for you to get a decent angle and reorganizing few things on your desk and get a decent shot.

Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 05:46:03 PM
move the coffee cup to cover big-nose?
That's an elegant solution to cover the big nosed figurine.


Should the MusicBee logo/text on the home page be a little more eye catching? I came up with this, just playing around;

i am not keen on having something flashy logo, i want to maintain a much more subtle and elegant design.

Maybe just use a larger font?

I guess that is a good solution. I will probably choose some decent typography and font for the text.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 04, 2016, 07:06:40 PM
a new update is live, bringing tons of bug fixes, and two new feature:

with this update navigation is much more refined, should please some user.
(http://i.imgur.com/m64zMC3.jpg)

another layout change is the footer, the new one is well organized, i got rid off those extra texts that makes it look too... congested.. and also we have a RSS FEED for the musicbee releases :)
in the past one thing i always struggle is to get notified for the new release(i didn't notice the notify button on the thread until yesterday :P), this will make things easier for most user.

(http://i.imgur.com/5uj0WSF.jpg)

a big thanks to phred for pointing out bugs, and some issues with the addon page, which is fixed. also some spelling mistake is fixed.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 07, 2016, 03:06:46 AM
Another update, this update includes a lots of bugfixes and some improvement suggested by phred and others. also the donation link is now more catching.

(http://i.imgur.com/BZ2Heoq.jpg)

bug fix in the RSS feed where it won't show new release updates.

and a BIG CHANGE IN THIS UPDATE is the imgur image upload, it is completely rewritten from the ground up. The previous one was written in javascript and didn't contain a better error management and also it has one BIG security flaw, it exposes my client-id for the imgur, anyone could easily use the client-id and overhead the upload limit.

The new upload is written in php and has better way to dealt with errors.
The change is on the backend so you guys won't notice a single change.

there also numerous changes, more are coming.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: BeeBeeKing on January 07, 2016, 12:15:21 PM
Just my opinion, but I think the color gradient makes the page look very bland. Look better with real photo of a person using MusicBee.
I also think the fonts are a bit plain.
What about a rotating slide screen (like on the current homepage) but embedded into a monitor in a real scene, at least that way it is quick and easy to see what MB looks like.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 07, 2016, 12:19:26 PM
Just my opinion, but I think the color gradient makes the page look very bland. Look better with real photo of a person using MusicBee.
I also think the fonts are a bit plain.
What about a rotating slide screen (like on the current homepage) but embedded into a monitor in a real scene, at least that way it is quick and easy to see what MB looks like.

i agree on having a image of person using MusicBee, but someone has to provide a image. I have no idea of how to do it.

as for slide screen i already said

more image = longer loading times

so no i have no plan for sliders.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Ansem on January 08, 2016, 05:43:29 AM
Hi!
I have a suggestion about the whishlist section:
Can you do something like I saw for microsoft? They did a list of the desired new features, and you can give them from 1 to 3 point, but you have only 10 points.
In this way, you can know which are the most desired feature and it's a lot more easy to read for the users too!
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 08, 2016, 06:14:04 AM
Hi!
I have a suggestion about the whishlist section:
Can you do something like I saw for microsoft? They did a list of the desired new features, and you can give them from 1 to 3 point, but you have only 10 points.
In this way, you can know which are the most desired feature and it's a lot more easy to read for the users too!
What you are asking for is uservoice, it is steven's decision if he wants use uservoice or not, i have no say on this unfortunately. 
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Sofocl on January 08, 2016, 06:33:56 AM
Hi!
I have a suggestion about the whishlist section:
Can you do something like I saw for microsoft? They did a list of the desired new features, and you can give them from 1 to 3 point, but you have only 10 points.
In this way, you can know which are the most desired feature and it's a lot more easy to read for the users too!
+1
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Ansem on January 09, 2016, 02:11:12 PM
Hi!
I have a suggestion about the whishlist section:
Can you do something like I saw for microsoft? They did a list of the desired new features, and you can give them from 1 to 3 point, but you have only 10 points.
In this way, you can know which are the most desired feature and it's a lot more easy to read for the users too!
What you are asking for is uservoice, it is steven's decision if he wants use uservoice or not, i have no say on this unfortunately.
of course he doesn't have to listed to the uservoice, but at least there won't be anymore 10 threads with the same request :)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 09, 2016, 03:21:51 PM
well uservoice is $499 pa, so that wont be happening.
In principal i dont want to add functions like this that just add too much complexity and where more things that can wrong/ more support etc
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 10, 2016, 07:41:16 PM
well uservoice is $499 pa, so that wont be happening.
In principal i dont want to add functions like this that just add too much complexity and where more things that can wrong/ more support etc

This is a free alternative to UserVoice: http://www.userreport.com/

But couldn't something similar be implemented directly on the website rather than use a 3rd party platform? Or am I underestimating how difficult it would be to implement?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 10, 2016, 10:33:39 PM
Could something like this work for the header background image or is it not high end enough? (this is my desktop)

I'm trying to figure out what size would be best for that header image in order to put interesting elements in the frame too.

(http://i.imgur.com/jPSR2t2.png)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 10, 2016, 10:51:35 PM
this looks great. The only suggestion i have is the MusicBee and sub-text may need to be a bit stronger to stand out from the words in the top right corner
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 10, 2016, 11:04:13 PM
+1 on the image!  Nice job.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 11, 2016, 01:18:59 AM
this looks great. The only suggestion i have is the MusicBee and sub-text may need to be a bit stronger to stand out from the words in the top right corner

You're right. Another option may be to blur out the image or increase the opacity of the overlay, but either way I agree that the text that's on top of the image should be bigger / use a stronger font anyways.

+1 on the image!  Nice job.

Glad you like it! The original can be found here: http://i.imgur.com/DFIKXwa.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/DFIKXwa.jpg).

The only thing I tweaked is that I resized it to 50% (it's still huge) and got rid of the DELL logo. If the image is not sharp enough, I could shoot it again with my DSLR instead of the phone I used here.

@AvikB I couldn't make sense of how to crop the image for the best results on the website. The way it looks in the screenshot I posted above focuses on the better areas of the photo IMO but as the image changes size as you resize your browser window, it got confusing real fast. What do you think?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 13, 2016, 02:47:14 PM
Could something like this work for the header background image or is it not high end enough? (this is my desktop)

I'm trying to figure out what size would be best for that header image in order to put interesting elements in the frame too.

👍 Nice image, the headphone in that image does not look right(can't quite catch what is wrong with it though) :S

this looks great. The only suggestion i have is the MusicBee and sub-text may need to be a bit stronger to stand out from the words in the top right corner
You're right. Another option may be to blur out the image or increase the opacity of the overlay, but either way I agree that the text that's on top of the image should be bigger / use a stronger font anyways.

yeah i agree, the font needs to be stronger. I might choose a different font. Blur is a great idea, specially to focus on a specific area.

The only thing I tweaked is that I resized it to 50% (it's still huge) and got rid of the DELL logo. If the image is not sharp enough, I could shoot it again with my DSLR instead of the phone I used here.
it would be a great if you could send an image from DSLR, the current image has too much noise. Also make sure the angle is a bit more high.

@AvikB I couldn't make sense of how to crop the image for the best results on the website. The way it looks in the screenshot I posted above focuses on the better areas of the photo IMO but as the image changes size as you resize your browser window, it got confusing real fast. What do you think?
That won't be a problem, i can make sure that even with resizing size the focus area will always get more visibility.


Sorry for this late reply, it was busy weekend for me :)
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 13, 2016, 05:11:10 PM
it would be a great if you could send an image from DSLR, the current image has too much noise. Also make sure the angle is a bit more high.
Yeah I thought that could be a problem, although,, with the overlay, noise isn't really a problem.

When you say a bit higher angle, how do you mean? Would you want me to be further away from the subject (include more in the shot?). The reason I picked this angle is because there's really nothing of interest around my desktop; quite the contrary actually. You really don't want to see what it looks like around it. ;) But I'll see what I can do.

the headphone in that image does not look right(can't quite catch what is wrong with it though) :S
Is it where they are in the picture or how they are laid down?
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 14, 2016, 01:21:46 AM
When you say a bit higher angle, how do you mean? Would you want me to be further away from the subject (include more in the shot?). The reason I picked this angle is because there's really nothing of interest around my desktop; quite the contrary actually. You really don't want to see what it looks like around it. ;) But I'll see what I can do.
here is how i think it might look better:

(http://i.imgur.com/o31RBgn.jpg)

the red line represent the current view, the blue is what i have in mind. I am trying to capture your desktop(monitor) more, rather than desk.

Is it where they are in the picture or how they are laid down?
yes the laid down position does not seem right.

Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 14, 2016, 02:57:08 AM
Well if I fill the shot with mostly the monitor, I can get rid of teh headphones. I'll see what i can do in the next few days!
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 14, 2016, 05:05:09 AM
This is a free alternative to UserVoice: http://www.userreport.com/
Looks really nice.

But couldn't something similar be implemented directly on the website rather than use a 3rd party platform? Or am I underestimating how difficult it would be to implement?
By implementing, if you mean a custom made for the msucbee, then yes it would be time consuming, not difficult. There might be other third party solution, but i haven't checked it yet. Userreport, that you suggested me, is a good solution, but i think it uses their own site, so you won't get 100% control or look.

Few issues:
It would require steven to check and mark those ideas/features(if planned or not).
require admin/mod monitoring for spams
Require additional account(it won't get integrated with current site's forum login).


If you want full integration with the site, then a custom made is a good solution, it won't be hard to get basic voting/commenting functionality(not as much as addon center for sure :| ), but since i am the only guy doing the coding part it will require some time.
And i already have have few things on my roadmap. specially the notification center and addon center/dashboard).

I may consider putting it on my roadmap, but it will require mod/admin/steven to monitor it.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 14, 2016, 05:45:13 AM
Well if I fill the shot with mostly the monitor, I can get rid of teh headphones. I'll see what i can do in the next few days!

or try hanging the headphones on the monitor corner
and maybe take the picture from slightly below so you are looking up at the monitor from a shallow angle
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 14, 2016, 06:59:25 AM

or try hanging the headphones on the monitor corner
and maybe take the picture from slightly below so you are looking up at the monitor from a shallow angle
Great ideas! I'll try a few things over the weekend.
Title: Re: [BIG UPDATE! DASHBOARD IS NOW FUNCTIONAL] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 14, 2016, 07:41:57 AM
NEW UPDATE
this update is mainly for addon center. mostly cosmetic changes and design tweaks.
Here is what is new:

A blurry colorful background will be generated from the thumbnail. It reminds me of osx blur effect, and look gorgeous.
The thumbnail must be uploaded to imgur or other image hosting that allows CORS, any private domain(personal site) won't allow it.
how it looks:
endeavour1314's skin:
(http://i.imgur.com/iwfshJF.jpg)

also bee-liever's Peeaches n'Cream skin(blur looks really creamy :) )
(http://i.imgur.com/UapIOLx.jpg)

phred's on the look out has icy blur effect.
All of these are generated on the go(client side), addon devs don't have to do a single thing.

here is the links to visit these addons:

http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1/win10-style/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/1/win10-style/)
http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/2/phred-phred-on-the-lookout/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/2/phred-phred-on-the-lookout/)
http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/3/peaches-ncream/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/3/peaches-ncream/)


i will submit few more addon to test this feature out. Also there is a More from X section at the bottom, which should be working properly.

NOTE:
in the next update upload to mediafire will be allowed, this will allow a central repo, also direct upload will make things easier. I was planning to go with google drive, but decided to go with mediafire because of their easy to use api, storage, options and bandwidth.
I did planned to use onedrive, but their documentation awful, and i can't seem to find sitewide upload example.

let me know if you have any issue with mediafire in general.
You won't need any mediafire account, only logging in to dashboard is enough.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 15, 2016, 07:33:35 PM
How's this?

(http://i.imgur.com/BdQkcb3.jpg)

This would look like this unaltered on the page:

(http://i.imgur.com/deH7fgn.png?1)

Full size HERE (http://i.imgur.com/y44Z764.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 16, 2016, 08:53:02 AM
How's this?

Looks good. I have updated the demo site to reflect the changes. also i did tweak few things in photoshop.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 16, 2016, 09:41:26 AM
personally i still think the initial picture provided that i had a minor objection to (the figure with the big node/ backpack being at the centre of the picture) was the best. I was even happy with the photoshopping on it to remove that feature.
But if others done agree then i am OK with the current one
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 16, 2016, 10:00:05 AM
personally i still think the initial picture provided that i had a minor objection to (the figure with the big node/ backpack being at the centre of the picture) was the best. I was even happy with the photoshopping on it to remove that feature.

So far I would agree with Steven on this, preferring one of the shopped images that removed the figurines.

@ vpsaxman, maybe you could try re-creating a similar image with your set up?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 16, 2016, 11:06:15 AM
personally i still think the initial picture provided that i had a minor objection to (the figure with the big node/ backpack being at the centre of the picture) was the best. I was even happy with the photoshopping on it to remove that feature.

So far I would agree with Steven on this, preferring one of the shopped images that removed the figurines.

@ vpsaxman, maybe you could try re-creating a similar image with your set up? 
I'm afraid not. My space is just so different. But I would have no objection to photoshoping the shot with the big nose guy and using that instead.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 17, 2016, 11:32:14 AM
To be honest, with the color overlay and the text about MusicBee on top of that, the underlying image is obscured or unresolvable in large measure such that it just doesn't add much to the presentation at all.  I'd vote for just rethinking it. 

Someone new to the program isn't going to know what MB looks like, anyway.  So a blurry pic of a desktop doesn't bring much to the experience. 

As an alternative, you could have a link to user-posted pics of their own setups.  Or a thread in the forum for purposes of showing it off.

But the fuzzy color over a handful of grainy album covers...  Not working for me, if I try to imagine myself discovering the site for the first time. 
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: BeeBeeKing on January 17, 2016, 12:47:53 PM
I agree with Skoop.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 17, 2016, 05:59:07 PM
Another update with a new feature.
Now you can upload your addon directly to mediafire(or provide a mediafire or similar hosting site link).

(http://i.imgur.com/vGcdpjm.jpg)

one restriction is that you must use rar/7z/tgz/zip format.
Even though the size limit is 50MB(which i highly doubt 99.99% addon won't reach), i haven't tested it with anything larger than 50KB.

It would be really great if someone can test the upload with 2MB, 5MB, 10MB, 20MB, 30MB, 40MB, 50MB files and provide some result as a feedback.
While test upload it is recommend that you have developers tool enabled and go to console tab for errors.

by default there shouldn't be any red colored errors, but if found any please report back, also while upload a file if any error occurs that means the upload failed, and you either have to refresh the page(recommended) or close the upload box and reopen.

(http://i.imgur.com/yoX6WgN.jpg)


few major but not noticeable change is the main menu(top navigation bar). instead of hard coding it into html, i decided to create an array of menu items and then iterate through them, this reduces code duplication a lot.

a new addition is misc in the addon dropdown menu. Another addition is in the footer called press, This is intended for providing resources like logo, screenshots for bloggers/ reviewers.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 17, 2016, 06:17:52 PM
To be honest, with the color overlay and the text about MusicBee on top of that, the underlying image is obscured or unresolvable in large measure such that it just doesn't add much to the presentation at all.  I'd vote for just rethinking it. 

Someone new to the program isn't going to know what MB looks like, anyway.  So a blurry pic of a desktop doesn't bring much to the experience. 

But the fuzzy color over a handful of grainy album covers...  Not working for me, if I try to imagine myself discovering the site for the first time. 
I was thinking the same thing, and browsing for some inspiration, but really what ones expect from an audio player homepage? I checked some audio player home pages, Itunes, Winamp(it has a lama on the top :O), aimp, mediamonkey and groove. Most of them barely shows any audio player related images. I do like itune and groove home pages. Groove home page has the vibe that other musicplayer pages lack.

Now back to square one, the most first image with a concert and joyful people is the one i liked, but it has some offensive sign, BUT the bottom image on the home page also has the same vibe without the offensive hand mark(hopefully), i can use it at the top and choose something else at the bottom.

the second image with the mac was good but it has a long nose/ and a mac, other than that it has a clean, well balanced calm look.

the third image from vpsaxman shows a monitor with musicbee, as you said for a new comer it has hardly any meaning.

it is really hard to get any image that represents musicbee or something. While i can try different design, i highly doubt it will make any major difference. All we need is a good image that has that clean, cheerful music listener vibe, no need to be related to musicbee.
Now i have no clue where to find one. So anyone with better image or design can suggest it to me.


As an alternative, you could have a link to user-posted pics of their own setups.  Or a thread in the forum for purposes of showing it off.
Unfortunately i am not planning to do it. The home page has 2 screenshots showing the main interface, if anyone is not convinced by it i highly doubt they will bother checking an entire thread. Also Musicbee is really small in size, download and testing out yourself is the quickest way.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 17, 2016, 08:08:53 PM
Well, why not simply do something like this then?

(http://i.imgur.com/zbxZvvFl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/zbxZvvF.jpg)

Straight to the point and minimalist.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on January 18, 2016, 04:37:45 AM
Well, why not simply do something like this then?

Yeah, that works for me. A minimalist design does seem appropriate in this case.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 18, 2016, 12:45:12 PM
Well, why not simply do something like this then?

Straight to the point and minimalist.

we already have that screenshot on the home page. Just bringing it to top wn't make any huge difference. And beside the home screen is already minimalistic while having a colorful vibe.

i have rearranged few texts, and played with the gradient a bit, and changed the background to a smoky guy wearing headphones.
test.getmusicbee.com (http://test.getmusicbee.com)

now before someone complaining about smoking, you can suggest a better image from here, the licensing is perfect and they have some awesome images.
https://pixabay.com/ (https://pixabay.com/)

at this point i won't change the layout much, only align few things or change the gradient and image or remove few texts. but the look won't change.

@vpsaxman, while the suggestion you provided is minimal, but perhaps it is too minimal. the home page is separated in different section. and in-between there is a colorful with background with some minimal info. Since you removed the top one and made it colorless like the one after that section, while scroll it will look blunt. and inconsistent.
i am planning to sticking with the design i have so far. The color is what makes it beautiful, check out the update.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 18, 2016, 02:06:06 PM
now before someone complaining about smoking, you can suggest a better image from here, the licensing is perfect and they have some awesome images.
https://pixabay.com/ (https://pixabay.com/)
I seriously don't think that picture works.  Especially the cigarette.  How about this one from the same site:
https://pixabay.com/en/woman-girl-headphones-music-977020/
I do like the text pushed to the left.  And the image of the woman still allows that.
I really don't like the cigarette.  It's Steven's app but I don't think MB should be promoting smoking.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 18, 2016, 02:56:50 PM
I like this one.  Simple, not controversial, on topic, and plenty of space for you to insert text without blurring it or other fooling around. 

(https://pixabay.com/static/uploads/photo/2015/08/03/10/25/banner-873106_960_720.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 18, 2016, 03:08:13 PM
Here's another:

(https://pixabay.com/static/uploads/photo/2015/05/28/07/59/paper-787642__180.jpg)

Or this one:

(https://pixabay.com/static/uploads/photo/2014/08/03/09/31/music-408996__180.jpg)

Or:

(https://pixabay.com/static/uploads/photo/2013/04/15/07/14/music-104605__180.jpg)

Or:

(https://pixabay.com/static/uploads/photo/2014/10/20/21/17/cd-495732__180.jpg)


You get the idea.  Something pleasant but non-descript that you can write on.

Anything but the Marley-wannabe smoking.  Jeez.  What were you thinking?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 18, 2016, 03:34:09 PM
now before someone complaining about smoking, you can suggest a better image from here, the licensing is perfect and they have some awesome images.
https://pixabay.com/ (https://pixabay.com/)
I seriously don't think that picture works.  Especially the cigarette.  How about this one from the same site:
https://pixabay.com/en/woman-girl-headphones-music-977020/
I do like the text pushed to the left.  And the image of the woman still allows that.
I really don't like the cigarette.  It's Steven's app but I don't think MB should be promoting smoking.


nice find :) , just updated. Few photoshop color correction and healing.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 18, 2016, 03:41:36 PM
I like this one.  Simple, not controversial, on topic, and plenty of space for you to insert text without blurring it or other fooling around. 

unfortunately inserting texts in images is really bad design choices in 2016 modern web. while there are some exception but still.
I do like this image specially the color scheme blends well with the gradient.

I like the woman with headphone more. Mostly because having a picture of living thing always has a good psychological positive effect. But besure to suggest more, if it gets enough support from other user i will change it. :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 18, 2016, 03:44:48 PM
Here's another:

Or this one:

Or:

Or:

You get the idea.  Something pleasant but non-descript that you can write on.
All of these are bad, they looks amateurish and does not blend well. I like the first one you suggested.

Anything but the Marley-wannabe smoking.  Jeez.  What were you thinking?
just update it to the one phred suggested. jeez i knew people won't like smoking images :P
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 18, 2016, 03:47:23 PM
just update it to the one phred suggested. jeez i knew people won't like smoking images :P

That one was terrible indeed.
But there are exceptions:

(http://i.imgur.com/8A9unh8l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/8A9unh8.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 18, 2016, 04:04:04 PM
Quote
unfortunately inserting texts in images is really bad design choices in 2016 modern web. while there are some exception but still.

Well that's what you were doing on the previous pages with the blue-red gradient pics with the MusicBee advert overlaid. 

Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 18, 2016, 04:13:39 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6397385/Save%20Pics/00%20MB%20logo.jpg)


I'm not very skilled, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 18, 2016, 04:37:46 PM
Quote
unfortunately inserting texts in images is really bad design choices in 2016 modern web. while there are some exception but still.

Well that's what you were doing on the previous pages with the blue-red gradient pics with the MusicBee advert overlaid. 
those texts were not meant to be descriptive or was expecting anyone to read them. They were part of monitor screenshot.
And by bad design choices i mean responsiveness. image gets smaller/cutoff when resize, and also not so seo friendly.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Skoop on January 18, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
Well, then, I'm completely lost as to what's going on here. 
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 18, 2016, 04:43:09 PM
I'm not very skilled, but you get the idea.


now imagine if we resize the browser and image gets smaller, how do you expect someone to read it? even if those are fonts over images, it will be real hassale to maintain the position of texts in perspective to the images.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 18, 2016, 06:06:17 PM
i like the smiling woman with headphones as the main image - it conveys the sort of message i like and its not cluttered
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 18, 2016, 07:37:28 PM
nice find :) , just updated. Few photoshop color correction and healing.
Is it possible to make the headphones stand out a little more?  They're almost lost in her hair.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 18, 2016, 07:44:26 PM
i like the smiling woman with headphones as the main image - it conveys the sort of message i like and its not cluttered
There you go!!  The Master has spoken.  :-)
Just fix the headphones and this is done.  IMO.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 18, 2016, 07:45:22 PM
just update it to the one phred suggested. jeez i knew people won't like smoking images :P

That one was terrible indeed.
But there are exceptions:
Yes, of course.  A pipe shows sophistication.
A cigarette is just damn nasty.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: hiccup on January 18, 2016, 07:52:06 PM
A cigarette is just damn nasty.

Well, not always...

(http://i.imgur.com/2yS4H1El.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/2yS4H1E.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 18, 2016, 08:21:32 PM
A cigarette is just damn nasty.

Well, not always...

(http://i.imgur.com/2yS4H1El.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/2yS4H1E.jpg)
With apologies to Duke Ellington, that's a sophisticated lady.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 18, 2016, 08:58:53 PM
I still prefer the original replacement one but with big nose guy removed
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 18, 2016, 10:24:37 PM
I still prefer the original replacement one but with big nose guy removed
+1. Not a fan of the girl and her empty eyes.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 19, 2016, 03:27:42 AM
Is it possible to make the headphones stand out a little more?  They're almost lost in her hair.
Fixed and updated.

Not a fan of the girl and her empty eyes.
Fixed. her eyes should be smaller and natural.

I still prefer the original replacement one but with big nose guy removed
I think the girl with headphone has the same clean vibe that the mac with big nose had. I will stick to it unless other suggestions gets more supporters.
Few reasons i didn't choose the mac with big nose is that it is mac, even with apple logo removed, their design stands on their own.

Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 19, 2016, 04:38:24 AM
I think the girl with headphone has the same clean vibe that the mac with big nose had. I will stick to it unless other suggestions gets more supporters.
Few reasons i didn't choose the mac with big nose is that it is mac, even with apple logo removed, their design stands on their own.

I disagree about the vibe.  There is no life, no vibrancy. She has a nice smile, she has a nice face. Overall it's...    nice. She just doesn't look like she's enjoying what she's listening to.  Photoshop a headset instead of the headphones and I'd swear she's working in a call centre.

The original concert shot (which I know we can't use), the big nose one, vpsaxman's ones, even the plain shot of the monitor currently used on the website, have more life in them than that pic has.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 19, 2016, 05:09:10 AM
I disagree about the vibe.  There is no life, no vibrancy. She has a nice smile, she has a nice face. Overall it's...    nice. She just doesn't look like she's enjoying what she's listening to.  Photoshop a headset instead of the headphones and I'd swear she's working in a call centre.
In the full picture she is sitting on a sofa, and the environment does not look like a call center.

Quote
She just doesn't look like she's enjoying what she's listening to
To be fair i don't even smile or do anything while listening to music. But hey atleast she is smiling. Better than have a serious look. :P
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 19, 2016, 05:14:35 AM
It's just my opinion.
If everyone else likes it - that's what we go with.
I still won't like it, but I will have had my say on the matter :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 19, 2016, 06:57:07 PM
A few more "desktop" alternatives for everyone's consideration:

(http://i.imgur.com/L1st8tOl.png)


(http://i.imgur.com/xLXSll8l.png)


(http://i.imgur.com/TTVgDFol.png)

And of course the text may have to be moved depending on the background image.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 19, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
@AvikB, no matter what we end up going with for the main picture I just wanted to say I think its fantastic the way you have done the image handling when scrolling down and i am very happy with the middle and final pictures.

Out of all the pictures i am more happy with the touched up photo of the women with the headphones (I wont say i am 100% happy as i can see the points made against it but its good enough to go with in my view).
For the people who didnt like that picture, do you think the touched up one is better/ ok ?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 19, 2016, 07:28:09 PM
@AvikB, no matter what we end up going with for the main picture I just wanted to say I think its fantastic the way you have done the image handling when scrolling down and i am very happy with the middle and final pictures.
:) glad you liked it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 19, 2016, 07:31:31 PM
A few more "desktop" alternatives for everyone's consideration:


And of course the text may have to be moved depending on the background image.
Nice images, i like the first one. the second one for some reason looks really congested(maybe because of the rack at the side).
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 19, 2016, 07:37:35 PM
A few more "desktop" alternatives for everyone's consideration:


And of course the text may have to be moved depending on the background image.
Nice images, i like the first one. the second one for some reason looks really congested(maybe because of the rack at the side).

Agreed. I like that on the first one the speaker is yellow and black, like a bee. ;)

Edit: source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taylor90/6787583453/
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Bee-liever on January 19, 2016, 08:20:16 PM
@AvikB, no matter what we end up going with for the main picture I just wanted to say I think its fantastic the way you have done the image handling when scrolling down and i am very happy with the middle and final pictures.
What he said.

@AvikB, please don't misinterpret my criticism of one pic as a criticism for all the rest of your work.
Far from it, I think the whole look of the new site is awesome and really appreciate the hard work you have put into it. :)

PS. I still don't like the woman with the headphones but I do like the black and yellow speaker :P
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 22, 2016, 08:10:41 PM
with this update addon browsing page is now near complete, addon page got a complete overhaul and lots of bug fixes and lots of structural changes.

visit the website and you can try the add-ons menu, it will show you all the addons, you can also view skins, plugins and others. The search isn't done yet.

visit here: test.getmusicbee.com/addons (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons)

the new addon page:

(http://i.imgur.com/Cydt79F.jpg)
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 23, 2016, 03:18:04 AM
I have updated the interface is very beautiful
:)
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: ihavnoclue on January 23, 2016, 08:38:43 AM
The new website design looks great! A central place to get the latest add-ons will be great!
The screenshot viewing is great too, very fast and smooth.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 26, 2016, 08:11:29 AM
The new website design looks great! A central place to get the latest add-ons will be great!
The screenshot viewing is great too, very fast and smooth.
thanks. :)
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: redwing on January 26, 2016, 01:29:26 PM
Thank AvikB and other contributors for this great work so far!

Just like to add my 2 cents regarding the main picture on the homepage.

Before scrolling down to MB image below, it almost feels like a website selling some kind of music service. Probably that's coming from the absence of MB at first glance and the prominent presence of a happy-looking person listening to music.

I did a mockup with some images from previous posts. The point would be (1) MB should be focused and immediately visible without scrolling and (2) there should be no distracting, misinforming elements.

(http://i.imgur.com/VEnBUxj.png)
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 26, 2016, 04:35:50 PM
Thank AvikB and other contributors for this great work so far!

Just like to add my 2 cents regarding the main picture on the homepage.

Before scrolling down to MB image below, it almost feels like a website selling some kind of music service. Probably that's coming from the absence of MB at first glance and the prominent presence of a happy-looking person listening to music.

I did a mockup with some images from previous posts. The point would be (1) MB should be focused and immediately visible without scrolling and (2) there should be no distracting, misinforming elements.

(http://i.imgur.com/VEnBUxj.png)
Looking good. I completely agree with #1 especially. It makes sense to put a screenshote of MB as the firs thing a new user can see when visiting the website.

And I'll add my appreciation for your incredible work on the website AvikB here. Keep up the good work! d(^o^)b
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 26, 2016, 05:23:06 PM
Thank AvikB and other contributors for this great work so far!

Just like to add my 2 cents regarding the main picture on the homepage.

Before scrolling down to MB image below, it almost feels like a website selling some kind of music service. Probably that's coming from the absence of MB at first glance and the prominent presence of a happy-looking person listening to music.

I did a mockup with some images from previous posts. The point would be (1) MB should be focused and immediately visible without scrolling and (2) there should be no distracting, misinforming elements.
Looking good. I completely agree with #1 especially. It makes sense to put a screenshote of MB as the firs thing a new user can see when visiting the website.

And I'll add my appreciation for your incredible work on the website AvikB here. Keep up the good work! d(^o^)b

Thanks guys, i appreciate the feedback, i am taking note of these suggestions, i will make some changes regarding these feedbacks and will try to compromise between it.

 :)
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: blidmink on January 26, 2016, 10:54:23 PM
Only just saw the new site concept and this is incredible, great work everyone! As a header device, I'd say that rather than a stock photo, even a screenshot overlaid on that lovely background gradient would work a treat. That said, there is already a pretty comprehensive assortment of screenshots.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 27, 2016, 09:45:39 AM
Only just saw the new site concept and this is incredible, great work everyone! As a header device, I'd say that rather than a stock photo, even a screenshot overlaid on that lovely background gradient would work a treat. That said, there is already a pretty comprehensive assortment of screenshots.

Thanks :),

i have updated the home page to reflect some of the feedback, this is not final btw, so give feedbacks. if it gets enough interest i will change from the woman with the headphone to this, otherwise woman with headphone will be used in the final version.

here is the home page to test. if you do not see any changes please refresh the page once more to clear the cache.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/)
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: RealPetChicken on January 27, 2016, 07:07:16 PM
Website & Forum Design update

Hey guys, i am actually on the process of updating this site design.

Thanks to Steven, a public demo is available, Check it out yourself, and give feedback so i can improve it. Have any suggestion or improvement, let me know.

here is the link : http://test.getmusicbee.com (http://test.getmusicbee.com)
update 29 NOV 2015

ADDONS page link: http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons.php)

There is little point of any scrrenshots, just visit the page above and test out yourself. remember to give feedback.

Now it is feedback time :)

I love it, great work.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: redwing on January 27, 2016, 07:22:42 PM
Just some thoughts:

- Though there's Windows logo at the bottom, presenting MB on a tablet as a main picture could give a wrong impression that MB can run as a mobile app.
- How about MB on a little lighter skin and show just a little more of the right side?

BTW the yellowish speaker cone really matches well like a honeycomb.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 27, 2016, 07:23:14 PM
i have updated the home page to reflect some of the feedback, this is not final btw, so give feedbacks. if it gets enough interest i will change from the woman with the headphone to this, otherwise woman with headphone will be used in the final version.

here is the home page to test. if you do not see any changes please refresh the page once more to clear the cache.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/)
the one i see now is the Radio with a screenshot of musicbee to the right. I definitely agree with the proposal to have a screenshot of musicbee in the first image. Did you consider (and possibly rejected?) to twist the musicbee screenshot as in redwings proposal?
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 27, 2016, 08:18:20 PM
the one i see now is the Radio with a screenshot of musicbee to the right.
umm... radio..!! :O thats a surface pro 3 screenshot btw.

I definitely agree with the proposal to have a screenshot of musicbee in the first image. Did you consider (and possibly rejected?) to twist the musicbee screenshot as in redwings proposal?
the updated design actually represents some of the idea from redwing's feedback. Ofc i removed that twisted musicbee window image since it does not look good, instead i decided to use a device to showcase musicbee. OFC more tweaks needed.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: phred on January 27, 2016, 09:29:11 PM
- Though there's Windows logo at the bottom, presenting MB on a tablet as a main picture could give a wrong impression that MB can run as a mobile app.
This. 

Please go back to an image of MB on a desktop computer like in this mock up from a previous post
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg102956#msg102956
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 28, 2016, 04:58:55 AM
i have updated the homepage after experimenting with various images.
let me know what you guys think.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 28, 2016, 05:41:00 PM
i have updated the homepage after experimenting with various images.
let me know what you guys think.
Did you change the spacing between text and screenshots since yesterday in the header? It looked better with more space between them IMO.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 28, 2016, 06:53:27 PM
i have updated the homepage after experimenting with various images.
let me know what you guys think.
Did you change the spacing between text and screenshots since yesterday in the header? It looked better with more space between them IMO.

i actually increased the spacing and reduced the image size a little bit.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: redwing on January 28, 2016, 08:25:34 PM
Some thoughts:

- If you want to add additional mode images, probably compact player mode has the most appealing look.
- Currently it feels like the two additional images are more of obstructing the view on the MB in main player mode. More dynamic or 3D style placement might work better and also imply that they are just different modes, not the multiple instances of MB.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: vpsaxman on January 28, 2016, 11:17:10 PM
i have updated the homepage after experimenting with various images.
let me know what you guys think.
Did you change the spacing between text and screenshots since yesterday in the header? It looked better with more space between them IMO.

i actually increased the spacing and reduced the image size a little bit.
You did? LOL!
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 29, 2016, 07:30:27 AM
- If you want to add additional mode images, probably compact player mode has the most appealing look.
There us already a compact player mode image is included(playlist-compact player).

- Currently it feels like the two additional images are more of obstructing the view on the MB in main player mode. More dynamic or 3D style placement might work better and also imply that they are just different modes, not the multiple instances of MB.
3d style?  are you speaking of rotating MB modes in a angle ? if so, i don't know if it is needed or not. I already added a bit of drop shadow to have better depth,
also my intention with those mode images were to represent the most wanted feature of a music player, i highly doubt anyone would bother considering the multiple instancing scenario. maybe advance user but for normal user instances won't matter.

also since most music player behaves the same way if the user has already used itunes, zune, aimp i don't think it would confuse them.

on the other hand new user probably won't even know if MusicBee has miniplayer, theater, compact player modes at all. (i am planning to add another section on the home page to show of these different modes).
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Steven on January 29, 2016, 07:33:16 PM
currently the first and second images have the same main player screenshot. Just as a minor suggestion, maybe make one of them using a different layout such as Album and Tracks
or even have one of them show the "Playing Tracks" panel
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 29, 2016, 07:44:40 PM
currently the first and second images have the same main player screenshot. Just as a minor suggestion, maybe make one of them using a different layout such as Album and Tracks
or even have one of them show the "Playing Tracks" panel
yeah i know, i was just being lazy :P , since musicbee3 UI might change till it hits beta(or most of the UI tweaks are done). i will take some better pictures and make them final.
the current image only provides the placement position and how it may look.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: Alumni on January 29, 2016, 08:15:24 PM
I like the image of MusicBee overlayed with the compact and mini player - great idea.
Is it just me or is that image loading much slower than the rest of the images?
I just tried it in another browser and it was the last thing to load.
Title: Re: [ANOTHER BIG UPDATE] MusicBee WEBSITE & FORUM Design!!
Post by: AvikB on January 29, 2016, 08:19:52 PM
Is it just me or is that image loading much slower than the rest of the images?
I just tried it in another browser and it was the last thing to load.
that image is about 405kb while other images are under 50kb, so it is taking a bit. also the optimization is not done yet as those images are yet to be final, since MB3 UI might change.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 06, 2016, 10:58:25 PM
another update with new feature. This update brings numerous changes to the dashboard, Now you can edit/update and delete a submitted addon. the edit/update feature is not fully implemented so you can only see the options but can not submit an update. Delete works flawlessly.
(http://i.imgur.com/oTj474x.jpg)

another option that is rewritten and is visible is the skin accent color. you can choose an accent color when submitting a skin. this will help user filter out the addon search result.
(http://i.imgur.com/0COAaVy.jpg)
i have included most common colors, let me know if any common color is needed.

there are also few rewrites for the error handling, it is now json based. the dashboard class got some refactoring and some backend changes.

the release note page got better colors.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on February 07, 2016, 02:08:46 AM
When viewing all add-ons from the dashboard, and then selecting Edit/Update, a new window opens but the 'close' button is nowhere near the new window.  It's in the upper right corner of the main window.  It should be within the window that needs to be closed.
(http://i.imgur.com/jBjfxBpl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/jBjfxBp.jpg)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 07, 2016, 03:58:22 AM
When viewing all add-ons from the dashboard, and then selecting Edit/Update, a new window opens but the 'close' button is nowhere near the new window.  It's in the upper right corner of the main window.  It should be within the window that needs to be closed.
fixed for the next update.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 07, 2016, 07:50:05 AM
Another update, with this update you can finally able to update existing submitted addon.
Few Bugs fixed with notification popups.

When viewing all add-ons from the dashboard, and then selecting Edit/Update, a new window opens but the 'close' button is nowhere near the new window.  It's in the upper right corner of the main window.  It should be within the window that needs to be closed.
i have tried this, and decided to stick with current implementation. The reason is the lack of noticeable visibility, and red close button does not look good on violet, green or other background. also there is some difficulty regarding implementing this due to how the popup dialogue is handled.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Paperbackstash on February 07, 2016, 07:50:38 AM
Looks great!
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 07, 2016, 07:58:00 AM
Looks great!
:) glad you liked it.


Another patch update pushed just now, due to a bug regarding imgur upload.
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on February 07, 2016, 08:54:27 AM
how does the love rating system work (or is it not implemented yet) ?
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 07, 2016, 09:00:04 AM
how does the love rating system work (or is it not implemented yet) ?
not fully implemented yet. the back-end is completed, only the front-end is WIP.

You will need a forum account to love an addon, there is no thumbs down.

i am thinking of only allow to thumbs up, or maybe star rating of 5. haven't decided yet :S
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 09, 2016, 01:53:11 AM
Update: this update brings number of style changes and fixes, thanks to phred. also the new addon like function is here!
whenever i download a skin from the current forum or plugin i rarely say thanks , it is just too much work or i am being lazy or even forget it. :S

With the rating system it is really easy to like an addon, you have to login with the forum. also likes are unique, one like per addon per user, one can't use bots or so.
(http://i.imgur.com/PxpDygl.jpg)
likes will also show on mouse over, when browsing for addons, it will help user decide what addons are most popular and loved.
(http://i.imgur.com/MLURgAZ.jpg)

you can also remove the like BUT can't unlike any addon. if you don't like an addon you don't use rate/use it.

you can test it if you have a account in the demo website forum.

http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/all/ (http://test.getmusicbee.com/addons/all/)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 10, 2016, 11:37:55 PM
new structural update. I haven't uploaded the new version YET, but it does bring a lots of under the hood changes and some refactoring, though nothing new on the surface.
I recently moved to git due to this project has become big, really BIG and it is hard to keep track on changes.

here is the site repo, yes i am making it open for everyone to review or fork or suggest changes.
https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/tree/Dev (https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/tree/Dev)

i am not much of a github user, and i only started using it recently :S , the code base is not complete yet, and i am making changes daily specially adding comments and moving things to oop. unfortunately there is no documentation(not planning to do yet) for contributors or even running it on your personal server.

There is a language file for those who wan't the site to be available on their native language. It is pretty messy at this point, and is going through a LOTS OF REFACTORING. but you guys can suggest any spelling mistakes or better wording.
https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/blob/Dev/includes/languages/en-us.php (https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/blob/Dev/includes/languages/en-us.php)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 25, 2016, 08:19:44 AM
http://test.getmusicbee.com (http://test.getmusicbee.com)

Another update, this update is quite a big one.
Specially the home page is now much better and clean without any clutter. new animations and also images. Most of them are in made in photoshop, the top wireframe icon background is just a placeholder, and the bottom 2 images are not done so not included.

The groove music section is back with new design and image. The image contains icons from RealPetChicken. One of our forum member.

There is a new section for review, it is not complete yet. but it will contain links for both other site reviews and our users reviews as well.

The top menu is now sticky for the home page(and other landing page that will be introduced in future... or not). also the alignment has changed.

The new design is cleaner and shows much more features of musicbee. Let me know of any needed change in wording or images.

The styling part is slowly moving to sass(scss) and grunt for automating most of the tasks, as this project has gotten quite big. Lots of refactoring in this update as well.

sorry for this slow update, i will try to complete this once my exam is complete in 2 more days. :)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on February 25, 2016, 08:54:43 AM
i will try to complete this once my exam is complete in 2 more days. :)

Looking good AvikB.
Good luck with your exams!
(although I think luck won't be a factor here ;-)
Title: Re: [UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Alumni on February 25, 2016, 12:12:14 PM
http://test.getmusicbee.com (http://test.getmusicbee.com)

Another update, this update is quite a big one.

Nice! Every time I check the test site it looks better and better. I especially like what you did with the topmost section and background.
A couple things I'm wondering; isn't the "MusicBee" logo/header missing? I feel like it should be above the text where it says "the ultimate music player...". I don't know how much the fade-in effect can be adjusted, but when scrolling down quickly it can be a tad slow to appear, however not a big deal. Also some of the images are broken, those near the bottom of the page.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on February 25, 2016, 01:17:26 PM
Nice! Every time I check the test site it looks better and better. I especially like what you did with the topmost section and background.
:) and.... it will only get better.

A couple things I'm wondering; isn't the "MusicBee" logo/header missing? I feel like it should be above the text where it says "the ultimate music player...".
I am still working on this part. Trying to keep the design minimal and clean. I have an idea of it's implementation.. probably in next 2 or 3 updates.

I don't know how much the fade-in effect can be adjusted, but when scrolling down quickly it can be a tad slow to appear, however not a big deal.
It is fully adjustable, :) i will try to reduce it a bit more. The effect will be only in the landing pages.... or better call it presentation pages.

Also some of the images are broken, those near the bottom of the page.
I haven't done yet with those images. I am not good with photoshop and graphic design and stuff..... so it is taking some time. Will update it once it is done.



Looking good AvikB.
Good luck with your exams!
(although I think luck won't be a factor here ;-)
Thanks :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 11, 2016, 09:03:41 PM
A new update! this is a major one. Mostly focused on Addons page.

Addons page is now 90% complete, search function is fully implemented. For searching it uses combination of tags, short description, readme(if any), title, types. It is a bit complex, but it should work flawless,

Sorting is also implemented. you can sort by category and addon ages(old, recent), i will add recently updated option as well in future updates.

lots of re factoring/re organizing code base for addon page. new url structure for searches.
Also Pagination is now implemented.

Most of the hard work is complete, there are some features i am planning to add like search by authors, different layout for exploring and switching styling to scss.

Few bug fixes regarding dashboard.

Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 11, 2016, 09:05:09 PM
Any ETA on this?  I am updating the wiki, and don't want to spend a lot of time on things that are about to be duplicated on the new site.

Thanks for the awesome work!  I'm looking forward to the final result.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 11, 2016, 09:17:06 PM
Any ETA on this?  I am updating the wiki, and don't want to spend a lot of time on things that are about to be duplicated on the new site.

Thanks for the awesome work!  I'm looking forward to the final result.
It is really hard to give any ETA, but it should not take too long.

here is a list of what is complete and what needs to be done:
1. the home page is complete except for some images
2. the download page is complete, except for images
3. the forum is complete.
4. Release note page complete.
5. addons page is 90% complete
6. RSS feed is complete

things that need work
1. dashboard page
2. press and media page (mainly containing screenshots for reviewers/wikipedia and other site's to use)
3. api page, bug, new feature, help page are going to be redirected to either forum or wikia pages.

I highly doubt anything will be duplicated. since the help section will redirect to wikia. let me know if you have any specific concern regarding duplication.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 11, 2016, 09:28:28 PM
I highly doubt anything will be duplicated. since the help section will redirect to wikia. let me know if you have any specific concern regarding duplication.

With the new plugin and skin pages, I will retire those sections of the wiki and link back to the site if possible.  The skins page in particular will need to be updated for 3.0, but I will leave it to last.  It's unlikely I'll get to it before you finish your work on this site.

FYI, the skins page is the single most visited page of the wiki by a large margin.  So expect a LOT of visitors.  :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 11, 2016, 09:34:56 PM
I highly doubt anything will be duplicated. since the help section will redirect to wikia. let me know if you have any specific concern regarding duplication.

With the new plugin and skin pages, I will retire those sections of the wiki and link back to the site if possible.
Put that section on the wiki on a hold for now. the new site addon page is 90% complete, the dashboard is my next priority.
shouldn't take too long.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 11, 2016, 09:38:07 PM
Put that section on the wiki on a hold for now. the new site addon page is 90% complete, the dashboard is my next priority.
shouldn't take too long.

*thumbs up*
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 12, 2016, 09:57:13 PM
new update, a lots of fixes and new features:

you can view the commit here, a lots of new line of codes :) https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/commit/271c5d90cd0d9760719a36b385d098c1d0cd5e1c (https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/commit/271c5d90cd0d9760719a36b385d098c1d0cd5e1c)

Change Log:

1. with this update addon can be searched by author name. (author: whatever author name)
2. fix a bug while submitting addon link and image tags are getting
omitted in read me markdown.
3. added a way to provide custom callback function via json obj
4. fixed bugs in ajax navigation script while click event won't register
for ajax loaded buttons.
5. Better addon rating handling with new custom function callback.
6. addon lists, pagination are now wrapped around a function for easy
access.
7. Code optimization for generating addon lists and other.
8. minor and some major bug fixes which i can't remeber :P

with this update addon page is now 95% complete, there are some minor styling change will be done in future updates, as well as bug fixes and code optimization.

to test out the new search by author name feature, go to the addon page and in the searchbox type "author:avikb" the author: part is required.
one of the issue with this search is that you have to provide full username, you can't search by "author:avik" or "author:avikfwsfswf", although you can search by "author: a  vi  k b" and it will work. I will try to fix this issue in next update probably.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 12, 2016, 10:45:21 PM
Not to rain on your parade, but what's with the new background on the home page?  What does it have to do with music?  I really hate to start this discussion again, but I thought the background image had (finally) been decided.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 12, 2016, 11:03:11 PM
Not to rain on your parade, but what's with the new background on the home page?  What does it have to do with music?  I really hate to start this discussion again, but I thought the background image had (finally) been decided.
the top wireframe icon background is just a placeholder, and the bottom 2 images are not done so not included.

I have decided to get rid off the old image and moving to much cleaner wireframe design. ofc the current wireframe background is nothing but placeholder, i will update it to have more matching with music stuff.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 18, 2016, 12:44:26 AM
New update, and also this is the final update for addon page.
Here is the change Log:

* Cleaner Design for download page
* Download page, Index Page, and a lots of other section is now on sass
* Code Optimization
* Bug Fixes and lots of other tweaks as well
* New search box at the top corner for the addon page
* Moved release note, addon page to sass, and addon page improvement
* Fuzzy Search is now available. you can search by only first few words, though spelling mistakes are still a problem and WON'T BE FIXED! Creating a full fledged search engine with spelling check is huge tasks.
* Search by author name is also enhanced with fuzzy search
* Addons that are NOT APPROVED BY ADMINS/MODS won't appear on the addon page. BUT user can still visit/download unapproved addons through direct links but will be presented with a warning.


With this update Addons page is now 100% complete for the first release. Addon Dashboard is next.
Let me know if any specific feature is needed in addon page or not.

http://www.test.getmusicbee.com/addons (http://www.test.getmusicbee.com/addons)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 18, 2016, 03:02:34 AM
I'm really stoked about this!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: alec.tron on March 18, 2016, 04:44:40 AM
Nice work @
http://test.getmusicbee.com/

c.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 18, 2016, 03:19:42 PM
I'm really stoked about this!
Can't quite figure it out if you liked it or not :P

Nice work @
http://test.getmusicbee.com/

Thanks :)

There are few bug fixes for addon page i have published on github, but yet to upload on the test site.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 18, 2016, 03:39:25 PM
Just checked out the forum board and I think the background color (255,255,255) is too bright. How about making it a little darker like the current board (239,239,239)?
Also the height of each post and spacing between each post seems a bit large, which will require lots of scrolling to read a long thread. I'd prefer more condensed style.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 18, 2016, 04:05:44 PM
Just checked out the forum board and I think the background color (255,255,255) is too bright. How about making it a little darker like the current board (239,239,239)?
A much better solution is to use dark theme.
(http://i.imgur.com/ULS4Xao.jpg)

For the light theme i am using default white background. Dark theme was specially created for those who don't like to stare at white pages all day.

Also the height of each post and spacing between each post seems a bit large, which will require lots of scrolling to read a long thread. I'd prefer more condensed style.
The reason for this is because with this new forum avatar images will be allowed. and that is minimum height required for this.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 18, 2016, 04:20:55 PM
So either that dark theme or all-bright theme?
Is it possible to turn off the avatar image as a view setting?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 18, 2016, 04:31:27 PM
So either that dark theme or all-bright theme?
Is it possible to turn off the avatar image as a view setting?
For now, yes.
I will introduce a much more compact theme.
For now you can turn off the avatar from your forum setting. But it won't reduce the post height. I will look into it, it seems like a bug.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 18, 2016, 04:35:21 PM
That'd be great. Hopefully the new theme will use more eye-friendly colors.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: rurutia10 on March 20, 2016, 11:48:28 AM
I think I prefer the current forum layout more. It's just so clean, nice, and comfy.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 12:11:53 PM
I think I prefer the current forum layout more. It's just so clean, nice, and comfy.

Such a comment could be useful if it would give some suggestions about what specifics you don't like about the new forum.
Specific things such as colours, fonts, icons, spacing, structure, etc.
That might be helpful, and even be implemented if considered sensible and agreed on.
Only saying you don't like it so much is not of much value in my opinion.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: rurutia10 on March 20, 2016, 01:54:19 PM
It's not as fast and smooth as the current layout. This is subjective, but I just think the current one looks cleaner and nicer, and feels faster. That layout also looks really generic, there are probably a ton of forums that look almost exactly the same.

The current one is simple, fast, looks great and unique. Why change? It's quite popular here too, why take risks? "If it's not broken don't fix it".
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 02:46:00 PM
It's not as fast and smooth as the current layout. This is subjective, but I just think the current one looks cleaner and nicer, and feels faster. That layout also looks really generic,
I don't get it, what makes you think the current layout is fast and smooth? I have done the tests on my end. the current forum layout uses old outdated images for buttons and such and is slow to load. While the new layout uses modern css3 standards and is faster and has css3 animations for smooth feel. I think you got it backward.

there are probably a ton of forums that look almost exactly the same.
It is a forum you can't expect it to look/work like reddit can you?

The current one is simple, fast, looks great and unique. Why change?
BTW, the new forum is just a skin and few mods, it is the same as the current one in terms of functionality. Both are same just with different colors and so. I can't see any uniqueness in any of them.

It's quite popular here too, why take risks? "If it's not broken don't fix it".
The funny thing is the current forum after the update is actually broken. for example the PM layout, and while in Posting a new thread textbox resizer is broken too, as well as bcc button too, also code selection and jump to navigation is broken too.

There are few new features in the new forum, and they are not just gimmicks either:
1. one click dark theme, it is a unique feature custom built by me, not a part of SMF.
2. WYSIWYG editor, this is a mod integration, much more easier to write.
3. Full screen editor, write distraction free, specially usefull for writing long posts(like this one)
4. Full site integration and notification counter.
5. Code highlight

Now plans for future, When SMF3 will be released, they are planning to release a mobile theme as well. the current forum won't support it since it is not very css3 friendly.

It would be helpful if you could point out the issues or bugs rather than saying you like the current outdated forum look. :(
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: rurutia10 on March 20, 2016, 03:25:13 PM
"Get the latest version of Musicbee" That button, and the buttons next to it, just look like bloat and takes up space tbh and should be removed. Put them all the way to the top next to the help button. More cleaner and minimalist, the better.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 03:54:19 PM
"Get the latest version of Musicbee" That button, and the buttons next to it, just look like bloat and takes up space tbh and should be removed. Put them all the way to the top next to the help button. More cleaner and minimalist, the better.

I do agree with you, i am thinking of providing a way for allowing users to collapse them.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 20, 2016, 03:59:40 PM
I do agree with you, i am thinking of providing a way for allowing users to collapse them.
if you are going to do that then why not just get rid of them?
The only reason i suggested them was to serve as a hint for new users who seem to continually struggle to find the topic with the latest updates but i only see that as mildly useful
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 04:08:08 PM
New update:
* Addon page is now fully responsive, and mobile friendly.
* Addon page, dashboard, admin panel or whatever pages used a secondary menu is now mobile friendly too.

(https://i.imgur.com/YLUBD0s.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gAtpVEk.jpg)

It is not fully tested so expect bugs.

* bug fixes in addon pages
* MySQL database foreign key constraint improvement for addons, likes and members(it is not live yet).
* Code optimization, removed redundant codes.
* Improvement for dashboard.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 04:20:57 PM
if you are going to do that then why not just get rid of them?
The only reason i suggested them was to serve as a hint for new users who seem to continually struggle to find the topic with the latest updates but i only see that as mildly useful

+1

And just curious, is something like this still going to happen?
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg99771#msg99771
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 04:23:52 PM
if you are going to do that then why not just get rid of them?
The only reason i suggested them was to serve as a hint for new users who seem to continually struggle to find the topic with the latest updates but i only see that as mildly useful

Maybe, instead of having those big banner on the forum front page, we can show a little banner while posting.
something like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/yHKkWKZ.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 04:27:36 PM
And just curious, is something like this still going to happen?
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg99771#msg99771

yup, when the new forum will be available the structure will be more like that.
Someone just have to go to forum admin panel and add boards, but there is no point in adding them in the test forum though. :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 20, 2016, 04:31:53 PM
Maybe, instead of having those big banner on the forum front page, we can show a little banner while posting.
something like this:

The banner is a nice idea, but only if it can point to the REALLY latest version, the patches.  Otherwise it'll be just like now, the first thing we tell almost everyone is to get the patch.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 04:37:38 PM
The problem I see in the message presented here, is that it strongly suggests that for each and every question, and every situation, it is almost mandatory to have the latest version.
The message might say: "be sure to have the latest stable version", but if you look at the state with mb v3 we are currently in, the advice now is usually to update to the latest beta. But at another moment in time, the advice might better be indeed to use the stable version.

As an alternative it might be sensible to have a message in the lines of: "for technical questions or problems be sure to mention the MusicBee version you are using".
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 04:37:44 PM
Maybe, instead of having those big banner on the forum front page, we can show a little banner while posting.
something like this:

The banner is a nice idea, but only if it can point to the REALLY latest version, the patches.  Otherwise it'll be just like now, the first thing we tell almost everyone is to get the patch.

It can point to really latest version but steven have to add them through admin panel, otherwise it won't.
Admin panel now only supports beta(basically patch) and stable release(full release), there is no incremental patch download section for stable release. steven have to provide fully patched release for the stable(just like how it is done in release forum thread).
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 04:54:57 PM
The problem I see in the message presented here, is that it strongly suggests that for each and every question, and every situation, it is almost mandatory to have the latest version.
Well it says Before posting an issue or bugs, so i don't think it is applicable for every situation.

Quote
The message might say: "be sure to have the latest stable version", but if you look at the state with mb v3 we are currently in, the advice now is usually to update to the latest beta. But at another moment in time, the advice might better be indeed to use the stable version.
The main issue with Musicbee is how it handles update. MusicBee should keep it self always upadated, or atleast show update notification when a new release available.

Specially for beta release, a user have to check the forum everyday,and then there is the trouble of finding if an update really is posted or not. which is not convenient.

I think the update model of musicbee should follow how windows 10, steam does it:
There should be an separate update option in musicbee setting, where user can select to choose stable ring or beta ring. Also for both stable and beta there should be a check for update button, currently MusicBee 3 beta does not check for new beta releases.

ofc i understand the reason why it does not. since there is no way(no api) to do that.
I am thinking of providing api for steven to build an update system for musicbee, where user can check for updates for both beta and stable releases.

here is the json api for both stable and beta release, ofc steven have to add new releases through admin panel.

test.getmusicbee.com/api.get.php?type=json&action=release-info (http://test.getmusicbee.com/api.get.php?type=json&action=release-info)


As an alternative it might be sensible to have a message in the lines of: "for technical questions or problems be sure to mention the MusicBee version you are using".
Well that was just a mockup, i will add this.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 04:57:05 PM
I might be mistaken, but if I recall correctly, Steven is not very enthousiastic about being pushed in some structured releases schedule or namings, with official and more traditional alpha's, beta's, patches, updates, etc.
If that is he case, it is not very useful to try and force such a structure in the forum also.

Then it might be good to keep it simple, and just use the here suggested structure:
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg99771#msg99771

Users will be able to find the latest official release, and info about it under Announcement> MusicBee Release
and the latest patch/update or whatever you call it in Announcement> MusicBee Pre-Release

That should be easy to learn and understand, and easy to direct to.
And then Steven will always be able to choose to have a thread named "v3.1 development", or "v3.0 updates", or whatever.

One thing I do feel quite strongly about in that case, is that download links, wheter it is for patches, updates, stable releases, plugins, etc. should always be found in the start post, and not somewhere hidden in a long list of later postings.

edit,
I see you just also posted on the matter. I will read that now too ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 05:05:34 PM
Well it says Before posting an issue or bugs, so i don't think it is applicable for every situation.

Yes, but it says here the 'latest stable version' is always better. But currently we usually advice to use the latest v3 beta. (update? patch?)

Quote
The main issue with Musicbee is how it handles update. MusicBee should keep it self always updated, or at least show update notification when a new release available.
Specially for beta release, a user have to check the forum everyday,and then there is the trouble of finding if an update really is posted or not. which is not convenient.

That is all up to Steven.
As long as he is not making a move in this area (which is within his good right, and only his decision to make), I would not waste time in anticipating on how that might play out in the future.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 05:10:38 PM
Yes, but it says here the 'latest stable version' is always better. But currently we usually advice to use the latest v3 beta. (update? patch?)
Then i guess, i can add Checkout musicbee beta releases, current beta release is: 3.1.3423

Quote
That is all up to Steven.
As long as he is not making a move in this area (which is within his good right, and only his decision to make), I would not waste time in anticipating on how that might play out in the future.
I guess anyone from the community can make a plugin for this.
If steven won't do this then I am thinking of making one for my personal use :) it is fairly easy to do so.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 05:27:52 PM
Then i guess, i can add Checkout musicbee beta releases, current beta release is: 3.1.3423
Quote

We seem to differ in the basic principle on this.
You seem very eager and focused to get this specific matter completely structured and classified.
I believe it is not possible, considering there is no structured source for this alpha/beta/update matter.
I feel it is a bit of a waste of time and energy putting in so much thought and energy in implementing this in the way you are imagining it.

What I agree on what might be useful, is a for example a fixed location on the start page of the forum, mentioning the latest stable version number, and the latest patch/beta version number. (as some ticker tape, if you know what I mean)
That should be enough to draw attention, and make people aware about versions/updates.
Just trust the forum and human intelligence to do the rest.

Let's get this ball rolling.... ?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 05:45:16 PM
yup, when the new forum will be available the structure will be more like that.
Someone just have to go to forum admin panel and add boards, but there is no point in adding them in the test forum though. :)

What do you mean 'more like that'?
Still not decided on it?

It might be good to get a good impression on the final result.
Any member checking out the test forum will then quickly see the progress being made, and will be able to make comments on it while there is still time to make such changes. I for myself am rather curious how it will look after those changes, and I imagine it will be rather difficult (or at least undesirable) to make changes to the forum structure after it's gone live.

Is it something I might be able to help with?
(no programming skills though :-(
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 05:45:39 PM
We seem to differ in the basic principle on this.
You seem very eager and focused to get this specific matter completely structured and classified.
I believe it is not possible, considering there is no structured source for this alpha/beta/update matter.
Well currently for musicbee release as it is, there are two version, stable, beta/pre-release. It is a pretty simple structure.

Ofc, there won't be always a beta release, since it depends on steven's free time. thats why i included a disable beta. and release button. Steven can completely turn off beta whenever he wants. Structure is flexible this way.

I feel it is a bit of a waste of time and energy putting in so much thought and energy in implementing this in the way you are imagining it.
My imagination is not really far fetched. It is derived from the current forum/download structure. And it is already implemented and tasted. :)


What I agree on what might be useful, is a for example a fixed location on the start page of the forum, mentioning the latest stable version number, and the latest patch/beta version number. (as some ticker tape, if you know what I mean)
That should be enough to draw attention, and make people aware about versions/updates.
Thats okay for me, but it seems some people don't like that as it takes extra space. It is really hard to decide since different people have different issues and choices. :S


Just trust the forum and human intelligence to do the rest.
That would be the last thing one can trust. :P
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 05:53:35 PM
What do you mean 'more like that'?
Still not decided on it?
I am decided on that structure, the wording can be improved.

It might be good to get a good impression on the final result.
Any member checking out the test forum will then quickly see the progress being made, and will be able to make comments on it while there is still time to make such changes. I for myself am rather curious how it will look after those changes, and I imagine it will be rather difficult (or at least undesirable) to make changes to the forum structure after it's gone live.
I guess you are right. it is just matter of time to actually sit down and add boards, and i am feeling really lazy to do it. :P

Is it something I might be able to help with?
(no programming skills though :-(
Yes it is pretty simple, a bit time consuming though, since moving, renaming, adding description.
No programming is required. you will need admin rank to do so btw. Ask steven he should be able to make you admin in the test forum.

(http://i.imgur.com/6tsO1V9.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 05:56:21 PM
btw i have question for you since you are a mod in the current forum.

In the current forum you can see a user's ip address and ip-block him, which i removed in the new forum since ip-address blocking is not accurate and can cause issues for others.
Do you actually use it? if so i might add it otherwise i will leave it as it is.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 06:04:44 PM
Thats okay for me, but it seems some people don't like that as it takes extra space. It is really hard to decide since different people have different issues and choices. :S

Something like this won't take space at all:

(http://i.imgur.com/xdhkavsl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/xdhkavs.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 06:13:35 PM
btw i have question for you since you are a mod in the current forum.
In the current forum you can see a user's ip address and ip-block him, which i removed in the new forum since ip-address blocking is not accurate and can cause issues for others.
Do you actually use it? if so i might add it otherwise i will leave it as it is.

I myself don't. I am only killing spam postings when encountered with them. I only remove and ban them on user name and email address.
I am not looking at, or investigating domains, ip ranges etc.
Perhaps Steven does that once in a while (please filter and kill all postings containing "kitchens", "uk" etc. beforehand ;-) so you should ask him if he needs that.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 06:14:03 PM
Something like this won't take space at all:

it is not possible do it like this, first it will break the menu design. and using two lines while rest of the menu is using one line is not a good design.

I think i will stick to current design as it is. a little bit of space at the top won't hurt too much :| , i will make it a bit more compact.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 20, 2016, 06:17:21 PM
btw i have question for you since you are a mod in the current forum.

In the current forum you can see a user's ip address and ip-block him, which i removed in the new forum since ip-address blocking is not accurate and can cause issues for others.
Do you actually use it? if so i might add it otherwise i will leave it as it is.
Speaking for myself as a moderator, I typically don't block someone via the IP because as you say, it might cause issues for others.  But there have been a couple of times where I have blocked the user's IP.  But this is always done from the 'ban user' option and not from within an offending post.  As long as the IP logging remains somewhere, I don't think there's a need to have the option show in the post.  Hiccup and/or Steven may feel otherwise and I would defer to whatever Steven says.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 20, 2016, 06:17:43 PM
btw i have question for you since you are a mod in the current forum.

In the current forum you can see a user's ip address and ip-block him, which i removed in the new forum since ip-address blocking is not accurate and can cause issues for others.
Do you actually use it? if so i might add it otherwise i will leave it as it is.
i used to block by ip address but as you suggest it can cause issues because spammers use hijacked pc's these days. Saying that, i would still want the ability to do that if i needed to
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 06:18:57 PM
btw i have question for you since you are a mod in the current forum.

In the current forum you can see a user's ip address and ip-block him, which i removed in the new forum since ip-address blocking is not accurate and can cause issues for others.
Do you actually use it? if so i might add it otherwise i will leave it as it is.
i used to block by ip address but as you suggest it can cause issues because spammers use hijacked pc's these days. Saying that, i would still want the ability to do that if i needed to

Do you use it from the posts view or as phred says from mod panel?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 20, 2016, 06:20:57 PM
from the admin panel
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 06:22:49 PM
I am decided on that structure, the wording can be improved.

Can you say what wordings you are not sure about?

Quote
Yes it is pretty simple, a bit time consuming though, since moving, renaming, adding description.
No programming is required. you will need admin rank to do so btw. Ask steven he should be able to make you admin in the test forum.

I'm willing and able to do that. But I would like it if we are (for 99%) agreed on the structure and naming before I do that.
Also, I am curious about this:
Since there are some discrepancies in the structure and boards between the old and new forum, simply exporting all existing boards and topics will probably not be possible.
Should we design some simple diagram where we can see where old topics and boards should go in the new forum structure?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 06:23:05 PM
Speaking for myself as a moderator, I typically don't block someone via the IP because as you say, it might cause issues for others.  But there have been a couple of times where I have blocked the user's IP.  But this is always done from the 'ban user' option and not from within an offending post.  As long as the IP logging remains somewhere, I don't think there's a need to have the option show in the post.  Hiccup and/or Steven may feel otherwise and I would default to whatever Steven says.

I have only removed from posts view, it is still available in the forum moderator/admin panel.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 06:27:10 PM
from the admin panel
Ok, thats fine, i won't add back in post view then.
"report to moderator", "quick edit" is still available though.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 06:35:02 PM
To refresh our minds, this is where I believe we left off some three months ago:


ANNOUNCEMENT

MusicBee Release               information on the latest official release version
MusicBee Pre-Release         the latest 'nightly' and pre-release versions


GENERAL

Tips and Tricks
General Discussions            Child boards: Discussing MusicBee, Polls
MusicBee Wishlist


MUSICBEE ADDONS

Customisations                  Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins


SUPPORT

Questions                         Child boards: Questions on MusicBee, Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports
Developers                       Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode


BEYOND MUSICBEE          Child boards:Related Interests, Rubbish Bin



Edit,
If there is not much enthusiasm about a foreign language board (it was only a suggestion from me I don't care about very strongly), support would just be be:

SUPPORT

Questions
Bug Reports
Developers                       Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 06:35:25 PM
Can you say what wordings you are not sure about?
I am talking about board descriptions, since you haven't proposed any description for most boards here:
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg99771#msg99771 (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg99771#msg99771)

we need to get descriptions for boards and then changing it by other member's feedback as needed.

I'm willing and able to do that. But I would like it if we are (for 99%) agreed on the structure and naming before I do that.
We seemed to resolve this a long time ago. The naming structure is fine :)

Also, I am curious about this:
Since there are some discrepancies in the structure and boards between the old and new forum, simply exporting all existing boards and topics will probably not be possible.
Should we design some simple diagram where we can see where old topics and boards should go in the new forum structure?
that would be a good idea.

The structure is not too different, the only problem would be question board, since currently all questions are in general we need to rename general into questions, and move the sticky thread to general. others should be easy, since they require just renaming and moving.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 07:37:39 PM
I am talking about board descriptions, since you haven't proposed any description for most boards here:

I wasn't aware I was holding things up ;-)
Ok, here are some further proposals:


ANNOUNCEMENT

MusicBee Release               information on the latest official release
MusicBee Pre-Release         information on the latest pre-releases


GENERAL

Tips and Tricks                  provide advice and tips to others - no questions please!
General Discussions           general MusicBee and forum discussions
      Child boards: Polls
MusicBee Wishlist              make a wish for what you like to see in the next version?


MUSICBEE ADDONS

Customisations                  discussing add-ons extending visuals and interface
      Child boards: TheaterMode, Skins, Icons, Visualisers, Localisation, Showcase
Plugins                              discussing add-ons extending functionality


SUPPORT

Questions                          need help?
      Child boards: Support in non-English languages only
Bug Reports                       report factual bugs and malfunctions
Developers                        developers discussion board
      Child boards: MusicBee API, Skins, TheaterMode


BEYOND MUSICBEE           talk about anything not related to MusicBee
      Child boards:Rubbish Bin
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 07:40:51 PM
do we need poll as a child board? we can post polls in general board.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 07:44:59 PM
do we need poll as a child board? we can post polls in general board.

haha, 'polls' was something you brought up. You seemed to have some serious plans with it, so I just thought to give it a special place ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 07:55:47 PM
haha, 'polls' was something you brought up. You seemed to have some serious plans with it, so I just thought to give it a special place ;-)
For serious plans i only intended it's use for voting any specific feature, or using it for getting feedback, a special section is too much i guess :P
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 08:02:46 PM
Looking at this part, I have doubts if it is an improvement to have the announcement board split in two between 'latest official' and 'latest pre-release'.
Especially since it is announcements only, and only Steven contributes to that, I think that works well and looks clean.

But perhaps for discussing releases that are under development, there could be a child board for that under 'General'?
Steven?


ANNOUNCEMENT

MusicBee Release               information on the latest official release
MusicBee Pre-Release         information on the latest pre-releases

Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 20, 2016, 08:05:02 PM
For serious plans i only intended it's use for voting any specific feature, or using it for getting feedback, a special section is too much i guess :P
Make sure that if/when using a poll to gather votes for adding specific features that there's a disclaimer stating something like "just because a feature rates high in the voting, that's not a guarantee that it will be added."
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 08:20:36 PM
Are you working on something right now?
Some serious corruption here:

(http://i.imgur.com/tFre1R9l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/tFre1R9.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 08:35:32 PM
Are you working on something right now?
Some serious corruption here:

can't seem to reproduce it :S
you might wanna refresh the browser, since i have updated the forum styling a bit, ti might need to clear the cache
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 08:45:00 PM
can't seem to reproduce it :S
you might wanna refresh the browser, since i have updated the forum styling a bit, ti might need to clear the cache

Yep, that fixed it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 20, 2016, 09:20:12 PM
If you look at the stats for the top 10 boards
(http://i.cubeupload.com/2O4FKz.jpg)
I think it makes sense to have the big coloured buttons at the top of the forum to provide quick access to the popular areas.
General and Wishlist are too generic to warrant their own buttons, but Bug Reports (which I think the red button will eventually link to), Add-Ons (Plugins, Skins, TheaterMode - ie. the green button) and the Latest Version link.

I do think the blue button should point to the latest patch, as this is the forum and you would (probably) be looking for an update to fix a feature/bug.  The main site has the link to the latest released version.

The only other way I could think of would be to replace the red button with a 'Tips and Tricks' one, moving the Question/Issue text to a banner (in safety yellow/orange) at the top of the Bug Reports page
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 09:27:13 PM
I do think the blue button should point to the latest patch, as this is the forum and you would (probably) be looking for an update to fix a feature/bug.  The main site has the link to the latest released version.
The only other way I could think of would be to replace the red button with a 'Tips and Tricks' one, moving the Question/Issue text to a banner (in safety yellow/orange) at the top of the Bug Reports page

I think we were on the verge on agreeing that we could live without those big buttons very well.
Are you advocating that you bee-lieve they are so important and have such added value that they should have a prime location and take up as much space as they do?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 20, 2016, 09:41:25 PM
Are you advocating that you bee-lieve they are so important and have such added value that they should have a prime location and take up as much space as they do?
Yes :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 09:44:32 PM
take up as much space as they do?
they do take a lots of space but comparing to the current forum it actually takes less space :P
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 09:45:20 PM
This new forum stuff is starting to remind me of Groundhog Day more and more.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 09:51:51 PM
I do think the blue button should point to the latest patch, as this is the forum and you would (probably) be looking for an update to fix a feature/bug.  The main site has the link to the latest released version.
The main issue is that steven does not use any specific thread to post patches. so i don't think linking to announcement thread will work.

The only other way I could think of would be to replace the red button with a 'Tips and Tricks' one, moving the Question/Issue text to a banner (in safety yellow/orange) at the top of the Bug Reports page
unfortunately adding banner to any specific page is not possible without any dirty hack :S
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 09:53:14 PM
This new forum stuff is starting to remind me of Groundhog Day more and more.
What the heck is ground hog day?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 09:57:56 PM
This new forum stuff is starting to remind me of Groundhog Day more and more.
What the heck is ground hog day?

A movie that you will enjoy ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 20, 2016, 10:03:29 PM
This new forum stuff is starting to remind me of Groundhog Day more and more.
What the heck is ground hog day?
No wonder it all seems familiar!!!
It's deja-vu all over again.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 10:07:27 PM
A movie that you will enjoy ;-)

added on my watchlist :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 20, 2016, 10:15:48 PM
I do think the blue button should point to the latest patch, as this is the forum and you would (probably) be looking for an update to fix a feature/bug.  The main site has the link to the latest released version.
The main issue is that steven does not use any specific thread to post patches. so i don't think linking to announcement thread will work.

No, there is no landing page, but the download link is always the same.
It's the one phred uses in his signature.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 10:21:16 PM
No, there is no landing page, but the download link is always the same.
It's the one phred uses in his signature.
I don't think the link is consistent. It is for v2.5 what will happen when v3.0 releases? it will need manual editing, which is not an elegant solution.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 10:26:31 PM
added on my watchlist :)

It is really good. Both funny and philosophical.


But on a more serious note, allow me to be honest here:
I feel some parts in developping the new forum and website are dragging on a lot longer than they should.
Let's take the discussion on the picture on the front page. After lots of discussion, at a certain moment Steven indicated he would be happy with the picture with the speaker and the computer display.
Instead of settling it and using that, the discussion just went on and on. (and I believe it still is?)
Now the same is happening with the 'big buttons'. It has been discussed a lot before. Today Steven mentioned he would be fine with getting rid of them.
Instead of just following that suggestion and moving on, the discussion is immediatly brought to life again.

I think it would be good, and more productive, that if there has been a discussion on a matter that anybody was able to give his input on, and then at a certain moment Steven says 'this would be fine by me', just let's do that then.
These specific matters are also not show-stoppers, and can quite easily be changed/added/removed at a later moment.

I shiver at the thought in what state MusicBee would have been if it was developed in the same democratic way the new forum is being discussed.

Let's get this show on the road!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 20, 2016, 10:31:07 PM
What hiccup said.  :)  I understand the desire to have everything ironed out beforehand, but just like with MB, even after it's "released" it will need a few more adjustments, and that's fine.  Some people always hate change, some people will have good ideas that can be added, but let's roll with it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 10:42:10 PM
yeah i guess you guys are right. :)
i have pushed one final update for the forum  and removed those big boxes and as well as some bug fixes and improvement for the menu, it is now mobile friendly even though the forum is not :).

For any more requests toward forum, home page, download page, addon page, release-note page  will be added on my todo list for v2.0
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 10:44:18 PM
What hiccup said.  :)  I understand the desire to have everything ironed out beforehand, but just like with MB, even after it's "released" it will need a few more adjustments, and that's fine.  Some people always hate change, some people will have good ideas that can be added, but let's roll with it.
Yeah you are absolutely right, it is hard to make changes when different people have different suggestions :S

I did have few more features i wanted in the first release, but i guess i will add them in v2.0
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 10:48:24 PM
Great!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 20, 2016, 10:49:53 PM
No, there is no landing page, but the download link is always the same.
It's the one phred uses in his signature.
I don't think the link is consistent. It is for v2.5 what will happen when v3.0 releases? it will need manual editing, which is not an elegant solution.

No. The latest patch is always the same link.
It currently downloads MusicBee 3.0.5923.36565, being the version that Steven just recently uploaded.

I thought that having a link to the latest patch on the forum, was something that had already been discussed and deemed a great idea.
Rather than having to search for a post by phred and get the link from his signature, or search for recent posts by Steven and look through those for the last posted patch.

EDIT:
Actually, reading back through the thread, the large button removal was discussed before and was decided it wouldn't happen.  That it was a good and convenient solution.  It was then just brought back up and re-hashed again today!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 10:57:42 PM
Yes it is pretty simple, a bit time consuming though, since moving, renaming, adding description.
No programming is required. you will need admin rank to do so btw. Ask steven he should be able to make you admin in the test forum.

Ok, and just for my understanding, my username on the new forum (hiccup2) is different from my current one here (hiccup). I believe existing user names from the current forum are not allowed to register again at the new forum.
Should I ask for those extra permissions on the second and new username (hiccup2) there, or should I ask to have my current one copied to the new forum, including these extra permissions?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 11:02:46 PM
No. The latest patch is always the same link.
It currently downloads MusicBee 3.0.5923.36565, being the version that Steven just recently uploaded.

I thought that having a link to the latest patch on the forum, was something that had already been discussed and deemed a great idea.
Rather than having to search for a post by phred and get the link from his signature, or search for recent posts by Steven and look through those for the last posted patch.
That is weird, the link read like it is for v2.5

EDIT:
Actually, reading back through the thread, the large button removal was discussed before and was decided it wouldn't happen.  That it was a good and convenient solution.  It was only just brought back up re-hashed again today!
I know what you are saying, it just wasn't a great solution.  There were few uncertainty:
First i don't think the patch link is completely permanent.  It could change in future, and only way would be to edit the theme files.

Don't worry i have some plans for future releases, i will post those ideas when i am done with the initial release. :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 11:06:40 PM
Ok, and just for my understanding, my username on the new forum (hiccup2) is different from my current one here (hiccup). I believe existing user names from the current forum are not allowed to register again at the new forum.
Should I ask for those extra permissions on the second and new username (hiccup2) there, or should I ask to have my current one copied to the new forum, including these extra permissions?
I don't think there is any relation between the current and new forum. You should be able to choose "hiccup" in new forum as well.

as for permission, you can't copy it.
If you want the same global mod permission there thats fine, but i don't know if you can modify or edit boards with global mod permission.

Can you modify current forum boards with global mod? if not i think you will need admin permission.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 11:10:37 PM
Actually, reading back through the thread, the large button removal was discussed before and was decided it wouldn't happen.  That it was a good and convenient solution.  It was then just brought back up and re-hashed again today!

But I also remember AvikB succumbing to the suggestions that considering it's permanent presence and taking up so much space was an issue, so he would implement the option to hide them.

This is the last I will say about this matter (at least until the forum is live), but I still feel the buttons are much bigger than necessary, they take an unreasonable amount of space and focus at the cost of a lot of other important information on the rest of the main screen, and the assumption that the majority of forum visitors is kind of clueless, and visits the forum just because they have serious issues that in most cases will be solved by just pushing a big update button in my opinion is not a true representation of reality.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 11:13:50 PM
I don't think there is any relation between the current and new forum. You should be able to choose "hiccup" in new forum as well.

Are you sure about this?
It's been a while, but I am sure I chose hiccup2 because hiccup wasn't accepted. I believe also other forum members choose (slightly) different aliases because of that.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 11:18:21 PM
Are you sure about this?
It's been a while, but I am sure I chose hiccup2 because hiccup wasn't accepted. I believe also other forum members choose (slightly) different aliases because of that.
yeah 100% sure. create a new account with "hiccup" and let me know if it is working or not
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 20, 2016, 11:26:39 PM
I don't think there is any relation between the current and new forum. You should be able to choose "hiccup" in new forum as well.

Are you sure about this?
It's been a while, but I am sure I chose hiccup2 because hiccup wasn't accepted. I believe also other forum members choose (slightly) different aliases because of that.
I'm pretty sure hiccup is correct. 

I just tried to register as 'phred' and it wouldn't let me.  Actually, it said I didn't answer the verification question correctly.  I tried it 5 or 6 times with the same result.  I changed the username to something else and got the same denial. 

Also if you request that the verification image be changed, the letters in the text box remain the same even though the background graphics change.  This does not seem like a good verification scheme if it always requests the same letters.

I'd like to know if anyone can get a new registration processed successfully at this point.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 20, 2016, 11:29:06 PM
yeah 100% sure. create a new account with "hiccup" and let me know if it is working or not

I'm sorry, I must be getting tired, I tried 4 times, and they won't let me in...
I am calling it a day...

(http://i.imgur.com/VGVuzhbl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/VGVuzhb.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 11:33:07 PM
thats weird, there should be another verification box, which is not showing. I will try to figure out whats wrong. :S
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 20, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
I still feel the buttons are much bigger than necessary, they take an unreasonable amount of space and focus at the cost of a lot of other important information on the rest of the main screen
What other important information?
It's just the forum boards table of contents!!

and the assumption that the majority of forum visitors is kind of clueless, and visits the forum just because they have serious issues that in most cases will be solved by just pushing a big update button in my opinion is not a true representation of reality.

And I didn't say that, you made the assumption there.

What is known is that a permanent link to the latest patch has been mooted for a long time as having to find and re-post the link when providing that information to other posters was time consuming.
It was one of the main driving reasons for phred putting it in his signature.

@ AvikB
The main website looks great! Nice and colourful, eyecatching and functional.
Then the forum (the latest look without the big buttons)... bluntly - boring, uninspiring and generally not nice to look at.
Especially when compared to the great work on the main MusicBee page.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 11:40:52 PM
okay forum registration should be working now.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 11:46:17 PM
and the assumption that the majority of forum visitors is kind of clueless, and visits the forum just because they have serious issues that in most cases will be solved by just pushing a big update button in my opinion is not a true representation of reality.

And I didn't say that, you made the assumption there.

What is known is that a permanent link to the latest patch has been mooted for a long time as having to find and re-post the link when providing that information to other posters was time consuming.
It was one of the main driving reasons for phred putting it in his signature.

@ AvikB
The main website looks great! Nice and colourful, eyecatching and functional.
Then the forum (the latest look without the big buttons)... bluntly - boring, uninspiring and generally not nice to look at.
Especially when compared to the great work on the main MusicBee page.

Yes i do understand your point. But the current implementation is not good. I am talking about worst case scenario, since if the patch link changes it would be a huge pain to modify it.
Wait till version 2.0, i have some new plan for this. Much better way to update them if needed.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 20, 2016, 11:51:08 PM
I have kept the link to the patch up to date on the wiki. It changes rarely enough that it's not much work.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 20, 2016, 11:54:33 PM
I have kept the link to the patch up to date on the wiki. It changes rarely enough that it's not much work.
Well it is easy to edit in wiki if it EVER changes.
But for the site you have to hunt down files after files and change it and if anything accidentally gets deleted the whole forum will stop working.

I am just talking about worst case scenario. I have plans for this in v2.0.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 21, 2016, 12:13:09 AM
Just to clarify...
I'm not saying the buttons have to be exactly as they were before, but I can't see the logic in removing those quick links to the most active boards.
The Bug Reports is the third most active board. Surely it's sensible to have a obvious link to that board, especially for new users that have just registered on the board to report a bug/problem?

And AvikB, you've spent all this time and effort to unify the plugins, skins, etc, even creating a specialised uploading section, surely that board deserves a quick access button, especially as Plugins is the fourth most active board?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 21, 2016, 12:18:20 AM
But for the site you have to hunt down files after files and change it and if anything accidentally gets deleted the whole forum will stop working.

I am just talking about worst case scenario. I have plans for this in v2.0.

Didn't you make changes so that Steven could just go and change the links for the downloads (in the main site) when there was an update to MusicBee?
Wouldn't this be exactly the same?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 12:22:12 AM
But for the site you have to hunt down files after files and change it and if anything accidentally gets deleted the whole forum will stop working.

I am just talking about worst case scenario. I have plans for this in v2.0.

Didn't you make changes so that Steven could just go and change the links for the downloads (in the main site) when there was an update to MusicBee?
Wouldn't this be exactly the same?
Yes, but only for stable release(full), beta release(full or patch).
Nothing for patch release since patch updates get added in full stable releases.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 12:25:02 AM
Just to clarify...
I'm not saying the buttons have to be exactly as they were before, but I can't see the logic in removing those quick links to the most active boards.
The Bug Reports is the third most active board. Surely it's sensible to have a obvious link to that board, especially for new users that have just registered on the board to report a bug/problem?
I am not against the buttons, but as i mentioned patch links can not be updated, only by editing file. I will add the ability in v2.0

And AvikB, you've spent all this time and effort to unify the plugins, skins, etc, even creating a specialised uploading section, surely that board deserves a quick access button, especially as Plugins is the fourth most active board?
Until the new admin panel arrives a sticky thread in skin, plugin section should be enough.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 21, 2016, 12:45:05 AM
Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a growing divide between what has been promised by all the site images and what is actually going to be delivered :(
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 12:47:55 AM
Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a growing divide between what has been promised by all the site images and what is actually going to be delivered :(
What do you mean?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 21, 2016, 12:52:24 AM
I'm excited about the new forum, but I will say right as 3.0 is being officially released is probably not the best time for it.  Maybe we can set a theoretical date like "3 weeks after 3.0" or something, so that any big influx of bug reports, complaints, etc has time to die down.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 12:54:06 AM
okay forum registration should be working now.
Ok.  I was able to register as 'phred' but had to provide a different email address than the one currently associated with phred_phred.  Which makes sense.

However - the verification text continues to be static when a new one is requested.  Again, the background changes but the text does not.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 12:59:13 AM
However - the verification text continues to be static when a new one is requested.  Again, the background changes but the text does not.
Unfortunately that is how SMF varification seems to work. :(
The new verification purpose is to give you a much less distorted image of the same text.
but i don't think it is much of an security issue. Since it will always show a new one if you force refresh the page.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 01:02:39 AM
I'm excited about the new forum, but I will say right as 3.0 is being officially released is probably not the best time for it.  Maybe we can set a theoretical date like "3 weeks after 3.0" or something, so that any big influx of bug reports, complaints, etc has time to die down.

I haven't decided when it will be ready, but it is gonna take few weeks before the new site is in beta. there are still much more optimization and work to do. And yes i am planning to release it once the v3.0 is at least in stable beta, or feature complete.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: Bee-liever
What other important information?
It's just the forum boards table of contents!!

Just the contents?
I would consider that the most essential and important information to be on the forums front page, and believe should be the most prominent, clean-structured, with as less distractions as possible.

Quote
And I didn't say that, you made the assumption there.

I'm sorry, perhaps my wordings were not subtle, that was not directed at a person, but at 'the idea' I believe is behind those extra links and/or buttons.

Quote
Then the forum (the latest look without the big buttons)... bluntly - boring, uninspiring and generally not nice to look at.
Especially when compared to the great work on the main MusicBee page.

I think there is nothing wrong with having a forum layout without much fun or eye candy. It should be all about content. That should be fun and not boring ;-)
I agree it wouldn't hurt it to be tasteful in layout, but the priority should be a clean layout without distractions and confusion, and, very importantly, a good speed of navigation.

Quote
I'm not saying the buttons have to be exactly as they were before, but I can't see the logic in removing those quick links to the most active boards.
The Bug Reports is the third most active board. Surely it's sensible to have a obvious link to that board, especially for new users that have just registered on the board to report a bug/problem?

Ok, eventhough I pledged to shutup about it, I have something to say about having extra links and attention to 'Report A Bug!' that I haven't said before.

I believe the logic behind this is flawed.
As you say, the Bug topic is already in the top 3 of most popular boards.
So it doesn't seem to be in any need of any extra attention at all. It would also be weird, having two different links to the same subject on the exact same page. That is confusing, and I think plain bad practise.
Also, I can not recall any complaint of any user ever having complained that he could not find where to post a bug.
So this would realy be a solution to a non-existing problem.

And what is much more important, I think it would result in the oppostite; it would create problems.
Already there is a regular amount of bug reports, that are not factual bugs.
This is of course undesirable, both for Steven, as for members and moderators trying to help.

With any extra invitation to report 'bugs', I am convinced that the amount of false bug reports will increase.

For that reason I also believe the 'report bugs' link on the front page of the website should be removed.

The MusicBee web page is likely to be the first page a newbee looking for support will land, before being aware there even is a forum.
Many of those that might have any issue with MusicBee, would probably be tempted to use that link, and go straight into the bugs topic.
Do we really want that?

I would suggest to have a single link called "need help or report issues?", which goes to the landing page of the forum.
The forum page will provide at least some filtering to prevent such unwanted bug reports.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 10:06:48 AM
okay forum registration should be working now.

Thnx, working now indeed.
I now could create a new account under 'hiccup'.
Contrary to what you believed, there seems to be a link between the old and the new forum, since (as phred also mentioned), you cannot use the same email address.

Two observations about registering to the forum:

1. after any error in trying to register (username already exists, wrong captcha etc.) the two password fields which you have carefully entered are cleaned again. So you have to enter it (twice) al over again. That's annoying (to me ;-)
Is that something you have control over?

2.
This captcha barrier with only 5 letters to me looks like a sitting duck for spambots.
Is there an option for a more advanced one? I believe the current forum works with photographs you have to match?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Skoop on March 21, 2016, 10:19:33 AM
Quote
you cannot use the same email address.

That will be a disincentive to ever sign up on the new one, for some of us.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 10:27:09 AM
okay time for a new update, dashboard is now being worked on. it is completely redesigned and have new features for admin/mod and also most downloaded(unique, based per IP), most liked(also uqnique, based per user) statistics is now working.

here is a peak. I haven't uploaded the update yet as few major database changes are needed, which i will update when the database schema is atleast a bit more solid.

(https://i.imgur.com/CHtPSb5.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 10:33:09 AM
okay time for a new update, dashboard is now being worked on. it is completely redesigned and have new features for admin/mod and also most downloaded(unique, based per IP), most liked(also uqnique, based per user) statistics is now working.

That looks very good and very professional.
I really hope there will be lots of contributions with good and interesting addons, which will justify all the work that you are putting into this.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 10:33:32 AM
Thnx, working now indeed.
I now could create a new account under 'hiccup'.
Contrary to what you believed, there seems to be a link between the old and the new forum, since (as phred also mentioned), you cannot use the same email address.
No there is no connection between new and old forum. the only reason you won't be able to use email is because you already used it for previous registration.

Two observations about registering to the forum:

1. after any error in trying to register (username already exists, wrong captcha etc.) the two password fields which you have carefully entered are cleaned again. So you have to enter it (twice) al over again. That's annoying (to me ;-)
Is that something you have control over?
Nope, i have no control over registration behavior.

2.
This captcha barrier with only 5 letters to me looks like a sitting duck for spambots.
Is there an option for a more advanced one? I believe the current forum works with photographs you have to match?
Yes the current forum like photograph captchas were there, but it seems somehow it got broke. I will fix it in next update.
Don't worry the current captcha is not that weak. It is actually cleverly designed.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 10:39:10 AM
That looks very good and very professional.
Well everything is now getting finishing touch before it enters stable beta. :)

I really hope there will be lots of contributions with good and interesting addons, which will justify all the work that you are putting into this.
I am sure there will be. we have a lots of active skinners, plugin developers. :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 10:46:28 AM
the only reason you won't be able to use email is because you already used it for previous registration.

Ah, dumb of me, it was indeed the same one I already used for 'hiccup2'.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 21, 2016, 10:46:32 AM
@ hiccup
It looks like you and me will have to agree to disagree on what is and isn't important for average users on the forum.

And as I said before, all this was brought up before and discussed and it was decided that the shortcut buttons would stay.  So instead of sticking with that decision, it's been rehashed and now that's not going to happen.  I'm sure, that sometime in the future, it will be re-discussed and a different decision will be made.

One of the pitfalls of designing by committee to accommodate everyone's viewpoint.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 10:55:20 AM
@ hiccup
It looks like you and me will have to agree to disagree on what is and isn't important for average users on the forum.

And as I said before, all this was brought up before and discussed and it was decided that the shortcut buttons would stay.  So instead of sticking with that decision, it's been rehashed and now that's not going to happen.  I'm sure, that sometime in the future, it will be re-discussed and a different decision will be made.

One of the pitfalls of designing by committee to accommodate everyone's viewpoint.
The only reason i agreed to remove it because of the poor implementation. I will look into these in more depth for available solution for v2.0.
I personally don't think a user need to search for patches in forum or anywhere. MusicBee should have a check for update button which should be able to get the patch or notify the user automatically.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 11:01:28 AM
I'm sure, that sometime in the future, it will be re-discussed and a different decision will be made.

That would not be a problem for me at all.
Apart from my arguments (which of course I believe are very strong and irrefutable  ;-) , my main reason for arguing this matter is that all this deliberating on those big buttons is cumbersome and dragging on for too long.
Yesterday the most important person here (Steven) mentioned he would be fine getting rid of those big buttons.
So for now just let's do that and try to finally get the show on the road.

After the basic layout and structure is settled, and proved to work well, we can always see if there are improvements to be made.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 11:07:07 AM
The only reason i agreed to remove it because of the poor implementation. I will look into these in more depth for available solution for v2.0.
I personally don't think a user need to search for patches in forum or anywhere. MusicBee should have a check for update button which should be able to get the patch or notify the user automatically.

To be clear, I fully support the idea that finding updates/patches etc. can, should, must be improved.
The only part I don't support is bringing extra (duplicate) attention to posting 'bugs'.
Explanation on when or how to post them, yes, probably. Extra links/buttons etc. No.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Bee-liever on March 21, 2016, 11:53:07 AM
All this arguing is just going round in circles and is not moving this topic forward at all, and as I seem to be a lone voice, I'll refrain from any further input into this topic at all.

@ hiccup
Just in parting, I would remind you to remember what you have posted before.  Seems those links were not so useful after all (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg99769#msg99769 (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg99769#msg99769))

Yesterday the most important person here (Steven) mentioned he would be fine getting rid of those big buttons.
And please supply all the facts.  Steven was happy to get rid of the big buttons if AvikB was going to go to the trouble of hiding them.

I do agree with you, i am thinking of providing a way for allowing users to collapse them.
if you are going to do that then why not just get rid of them?
The only reason i suggested them was to serve as a hint for new users who seem to continually struggle to find the topic with the latest updates but i only see that as mildly useful

And please don't forget this re-hashing of the big buttons was down to one users post about not liking the new forum at all (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg107459#msg107459 (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=16894.msg107459#msg107459)).
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 12:25:13 PM
If you imply that I am inconsistent in this matter, i don't believe I am.
(not that I would be ashamed to adjust any of my opinions over time at all)

Button 1; report bugs
- not useful, and even counter-productive in my opinion. I have given a few valid arguments for that, which you have not addressed at all.

Button 2: updates and patches
- would be useful, I never argued against that, but I have expressed doubts about the mechanics, concept and terminologies behind it. Avikb also explained more than once that he believes the mechanics behind it are not in place right now, so he would not be satisfied to implement it well at this moment.

Button 3: link to f.a.q's and howto's
- could be useful, I never said otherwise

So we can objectively establish that at this moment, two out of three of these buttons are still under discussion, c.q. not implementable at a satisfactory level.
Now, after more than three months, the only thing I am saying, is just forget about these buttons for now, let's do our best to get the new forum live, and when the time and circumstances are better, let's look at getting such buttons and/or shortcuts right.

Let's not get grumpy on this issue?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 01:43:15 PM
Thnx, working now indeed.
I now could create a new account under 'hiccup'.
Contrary to what you believed, there seems to be a link between the old and the new forum, since (as phred also mentioned), you cannot use the same email address.
I might be wrong, but the initial email address I provided when trying to register 'phred' was the same one being used by 'phred_phred'. Registration was (probably) denied since the new forum wouldn't (and shouldn't) allow two accounts with the same email address.  Coincidentally, it's the same address I'm using on the -original- forum.  So I -think- a user would be able to use their current (original forum) on the new forum.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 01:59:48 PM
I might be wrong, but the initial email address I provided when trying to register 'phred' was the same one being used by 'phred_phred'. Registration was (probably) denied since the new forum wouldn't (and shouldn't) allow two accounts with the same email address.  Coincidentally, it's the same address I'm using on the -original- forum.  So I -think- a user would be able to use their current (original forum) on the new forum.
Unfortunately it is out of my hand, it is the foundation SMF is built in. you can use one email address only ONCE.
If you want to use the email address you used for the current forum, i suggest you delete your forum account in the new forum and create a new one there.

BTW, this registration for new account is only needed for test website. When the new forum will be ready all your current forum data, registration, post history will be there with the same username and email you are using on current forum.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 02:24:32 PM
Trying out how posting a screenshot in the new forum works, I found that when you press the 'insert image' button, you get presented with a rather spartan pop-up field:

(http://i.imgur.com/6qzCLLpl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/6qzCLLp.png)

I doubt if every user will be able to enter the needed url there.
Would it be possible to have a browse button, so a user can navigate to the location of the image he wants to upload?
Or perhaps even have drag&drop for that?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 02:32:14 PM
Trying out how posting a screenshot in the new forum works, I found that when you press the 'insert image' button, you get presented with a rather spartan pop-up field:

I doubt if every user will be able to enter the needed url there.
Would it be possible to have a browse button, so a user can navigate to the location of the image he wants to upload?
Or perhaps even have drag&drop for that?

Not possible since browser button, or drag & drop requires attachment to be enable. and it will upload them to the server, which steven didn't wanted because of huge bandwidth issue. as for now use thridparty image hosting to upload and then provide a link.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 02:49:37 PM
Trying out how posting a screenshot in the new forum works, I found that when you press the 'insert image' button, you get presented with a rather spartan pop-up field:
Using the great Imgur Uploader to upload and create the URL still works.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php/topic,11.0.html
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 02:54:48 PM
Using the great Imgur Uploader to upload and create the URL still works.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php/topic,11.0.html

No it doesn't, hahaha
(I'm sorry)

(http://i.imgur.com/4QgwUVGs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4QgwUVG.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 02:58:31 PM
Using the great Imgur Uploader to upload and create the URL still works.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php/topic,11.0.html
Using ShareX here.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php/topic,11.0.html
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 02:59:58 PM
No it doesn't, hahaha
(I'm sorry)
I have no idea how you got this error! :S seems like thread is deleted.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 21, 2016, 03:02:53 PM
Just offer more detailed instructions:

"Upload your picture to an image hosting site (e.g. http://imgur.com) and provide a link to the image"
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 03:53:22 PM
I made a start implementing the new structure on the new board.
http://test.getmusicbee.com/forum/

Some remarks and observations on this:
1. I changed some English UK words to English US. Is believe that was the intention for the website, and I am assuming for the forum too?
Let me know if this is incorrect, then I will change it back.
2. @phred, could you please check for spelling errors, capitalizations, possible abuses of the English language, crooked wordings, etc.?
3. I have not (yet) created a new separate category called 'Announcement' as was suggested in the latest proposal. The reason is that that will cost some precious screen estate, which we will need later for some big buttons ;-)
For now I left it under 'General', with an added comment 'announcement only' (Steven will have to give himself exclusive rights to post there)
4. The dark 'Category' title bars are quite big (high), and take up a lot of vertical space. Could they be made thinner and more elegant?
5. Anybody with new insights and suggestions for improvements, please shoot!

edit:
6. I still have some doubts myself if the child board 'other languages' must be introduced.
Maybe some other forum members whose native tongue is not English can give some input on this?
7. Should we perhaps put 'Rubbish bin' as a child of 'Beyond MusicBee'? That will gain some screen territory too.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 04:36:56 PM
This is weird. When I visit the new forum without logging-in, I see all boards:

(http://i.imgur.com/IydZQRNl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/IydZQRN.png)

But when I am logged-in, the General Discussions board is gone:

(http://i.imgur.com/6naHpzUl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/6naHpzU.png)

Am I missing some obscure preferences setting here?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 04:51:35 PM
1. I changed some English UK words to English US. Is believe that was the intention for the website, and I am assuming for the forum too?
Let me know if this is incorrect, then I will change it back.
Steven told me that for the website, I should use US English, but nothing was discussed regarding the forum.  Personally I think there should be consistency throughout, so I opt for US English.

Quote
2. @phred, could you please check for spelling errors, capitalizations, possible abuses of the English language, crooked wordings, etc.?
Will do, but I'd rather wait until all the text is finalized.  Otherwise I'm checking each rendition and wasting my time.  I'd rather do it a day or two before it goes live.

Quote
7. Should we perhaps put 'Rubbish bin' as a child of 'Beyond MusicBee'? That will gain some screen territory too.
For starters, I would change "this is where nonsense goes" to perhaps no description at all as is done currently.  I can't help but think users will post jokes, spam, and other "nonsense" there.  Taking it a step further, do we even need a rubbish bin?  I've never moved anything to it.  I simply delete any spam that I catch.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 05:05:42 PM
This is weird. When I visit the new forum without logging-in, I see all boards:

But when I am logged-in, the General Discussions board is gone:

Am I missing some obscure preferences setting here?
It seems you changed the board permission setting:

(https://i.imgur.com/l7oHoiI.jpg)

as you can see global moderators are disabled. so everyone can see it except global mods. Check the global moderator box and you should be able to see it too.
Don't change permission of any board. let it rest in default. which should be good. :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 05:17:05 PM
1. I changed some English UK words to English US. Is believe that was the intention for the website, and I am assuming for the forum too?
Let me know if this is incorrect, then I will change it back.
It is fine :)

3. I have not (yet) created a new separate category called 'Announcement' as was suggested in the latest proposal. The reason is that that will cost some precious screen estate, which we will need later for some big buttons ;-)
For now I left it under 'General', with an added comment 'announcement only' (Steven will have to give himself exclusive rights to post there)
I think Latest should be enough. Steven could mark posts stable release posts as [Release] Whatever release title
and for beta [Beta] Whatever Beta release

4. The dark 'Category' title bars are quite big (high), and take up a lot of vertical space. Could they be made thinner and more elegant?
What do you mean? can you post a screenshot?

5. Anybody with new insights and suggestions for improvements, please shoot!
Description for question board maybe too short! maybe a bit more longer!

edit:
6. I still have some doubts myself if the child board 'other languages' must be introduced.
Maybe some other forum members whose native tongue is not English can give some input on this?
Is there really a demand for this? maybe we can post an poll when the new forum releases and see the response. :)

7. Should we perhaps put 'Rubbish bin' as a child of 'Beyond MusicBee'? That will gain some screen territory too.
Well everything goes into rubbish is not really related to musicbee, so it can be moved to beyond musicbee, i think.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 05:22:09 PM
For starters, I would change "this is where nonsense goes" to perhaps no description at all as is done currently.  I can't help but think users will post jokes, spam, and other "nonsense" there.  Taking it a step further, do we even need a rubbish bin?  I've never moved anything to it.  I simply delete any spam that I catch.
Yup i was wondering the same thing. And if you look the current forum there is only 4 posts!!, it is really hard to justify the space it takes in the forum homepage just for 4 posts.

I say it is best if we remove it. or atleast move to a child board.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 05:35:17 PM
as you can see global moderators are disabled. so everyone can see it except global mods. Check the global moderator box and you should be able to see it too.
Don't change permission of any board. let it rest in default. which should be good. :)

Ah, thnx. I am very sure I never touched any of those settings, so I didn't look there.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 05:39:52 PM
Taking it a step further, do we even need a rubbish bin?  I've never moved anything to it.  I simply delete any spam that I catch.
Yup i was wondering the same thing. And if you look the current forum there is only 4 posts!!, it is really hard to justify the space it takes in the forum homepage just for 4 posts.
I say it is best if we remove it. or atleast move to a child board.

I'll move it to a child board for now.
I seem to recollect that Steven has created this rubbish bin in the past for a purpose, so let's just have him decide if he wants to delete it later.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 05:44:05 PM
Taking it a step further, do we even need a rubbish bin?  I've never moved anything to it.  I simply delete any spam that I catch.
Yup i was wondering the same thing. And if you look the current forum there is only 4 posts!!, it is really hard to justify the space it takes in the forum homepage just for 4 posts.
I say it is best if we remove it. or atleast move to a child board.

I'll move it to a child board for now.
I seem to recollect that Steven has created this rubbish bin in the past for a purpose, so let's just have him decide if he wants to delete it later.
fine with me.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: boroda on March 21, 2016, 05:47:30 PM
wow! russian is perfectly supported by new forum (current forum displays ? instead of Cyrillic letters)..

i think there is no need for 'other languages' board. everybody can just post a question in his language under regular boards.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 05:52:00 PM
1. I changed some English UK words to English US. Is believe that was the intention for the website, and I am assuming for the forum too?
Let me know if this is incorrect, then I will change it back.
It is fine :)

Ehh, so phred says UK, you say US?
@Steven?

Quote
4. The dark 'Category' title bars are quite big (high), and take up a lot of vertical space. Could they be made thinner and more elegant?
Quote
What do you mean? can you post a screenshot?

These:

(http://i.imgur.com/dzIClirl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/dzIClir.png)

They are quite high and massive. Also the darkness of them creates a high contrast with the rest of the page, which is not very pleasant on the eyes.
In fact, I feel the same about the black top bars. I wouldn't mind if they would get some friendlier color too.

Quote
6. I still have some doubts myself if the child board 'other languages' must be introduced.
Maybe some other forum members whose native tongue is not English can give some input on this?
Quote
Is there really a demand for this? maybe we can post an poll when the new forum releases and see the response. :)

That might be a good idea. I'll remove it for now, and at a later date when the forum is up and running, anybody caring about this can propose it and start a poll.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 05:55:45 PM
i think there is no need for 'other languages' board. everybody can just post a question in his language under regular boards.

Thanks. I believe you changed your mind a bit about this? (just like I did in fact)
I believe I can recall you were enthusiastic a while back when this was first brought up.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 06:00:54 PM
Will do, but I'd rather wait until all the text is finalized.  Otherwise I'm check each rendition and wasting my time.  I'd rather do it a day or two before it goes live.

Ok. But while that is of course your prerogative, I think that while that would be fine for small factual errors, I think if it concerns choice of wordings and explanatory sentences, it might be good to do that a bit earlier, so there is some time to discuss it before everything goes live.
Never mind, I am sure it will all fall into place just fine.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 06:08:05 PM
1. I changed some English UK words to English US. Is believe that was the intention for the website, and I am assuming for the forum too?
Let me know if this is incorrect, then I will change it back.
It is fine :)
Ehh, so phred says UK, you say US?
@Steven?
I'm pretty sure I didn't say UK. 

Steven told me that for the website, I should use US English, but nothing was discussed regarding the forum.  Personally I think there should be consistency throughout, so I opt for US English.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 06:10:47 PM
For starters, I would change "this is where nonsense goes" to perhaps no description at all as is done currently.  I can't help but think users will post jokes, spam, and other "nonsense" there.  Taking it a step further, do we even need a rubbish bin?  I've never moved anything to it.  I simply delete any spam that I catch.
Yup i was wondering the same thing. And if you look the current forum there is only 4 posts!!, it is really hard to justify the space it takes in the forum homepage just for 4 posts.

Funny, only those 4 rubbish posts together collected 42601 views.
People just love garbage ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 06:20:36 PM
1. I changed some English UK words to English US. Is believe that was the intention for the website, and I am assuming for the forum too?
Let me know if this is incorrect, then I will change it back.
It is fine :)
Ehh, so phred says UK, you say US?
@Steven?
I'm pretty sure I didn't say UK. 

Steven told me that for the website, I should use US English, but nothing was discussed regarding the forum.  Personally I think there should be consistency throughout, so I opt for US English.

I get it. I got confused because I asked for English-UK vs. English-US.
Your response used the term 'US-English. My brain registered 'English' as the dominator there.
I'll leave it to American-English-US then.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 21, 2016, 06:27:36 PM
i created the Rubbish Bin in a moment of annoyance as some of the posts being made. I think it should be removed going forward
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 21, 2016, 06:43:38 PM
Should I convert the wiki back to US English for consistency? I changed it to match MusicBee defaults...
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 06:53:12 PM
Should I convert the wiki back to US English for consistency? I changed it to match MusicBee defaults...

Grrr, this is still a bugging issue in my mind too.
The wordings in MusicBee are by default in UK-English (unless a user manually sets MB's language to US of course)
So most users looking for support, will probably use UK English to look for terms as 'organising', visualiser' etc. etc.
To be honest, for that reason I would agree if Steven would decide to use UK-English web-forum-wiki wide.

edit;
Or perhaps a sensible compromise would be to have the website in US-English, since I am assuming that is more or less the norm for websites, and have both the forum and the wiki in UK-English, since that happens to be the norm for MusicBee and it's developer.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 21, 2016, 07:01:27 PM
its too annoying having people say there are spelling mistakes so i would rather just have the site as US english
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 07:06:02 PM
its too annoying having people say there are spelling mistakes so i would rather just have the site as US english

I just edited my last response a second ago. Would that proposal be agreeable?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 07:19:56 PM
its too annoying having people say there are spelling mistakes so i would rather just have the site as US english
Just for the record, I am more than embarrassed by my fellow countrymen and women who just instantly assume the UK spelling is a typo.  While the Brits and the rest of the UK English speaking world almost never point out US English "misspellings." 
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 07:57:02 PM
A new update based on hiccup's suggestion about color scheme of the forum.

Go to forum and REFRESH the browser to clear the cache. Light color scheme does not have weird dark contrast.

Another huge improvement would be mobile support for viewing thread. :), it is finally here. I haven't tasted it out yet so take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 08:00:00 PM
Another thing in this update is that, member signature won't show unless mouse over that member's post.
it is not completely hidden but nor disturbing by default.

I will need more input on this, do you guys think this behavior is okay? or should i just show it by default?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 21, 2016, 08:07:17 PM
i really like the new structure and i think on balance its better without the big boxes
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 08:23:08 PM
Another thing in this update is that, member signature won't show unless mouse over that member's post.
it is not completely hidden but nor disturbing by default.
I will need more input on this, do you guys think this behavior is okay? or should i just show it by default?

I personally really don't care about signatures, and usually find them distracting and kind of senseless. (wisecracks, summing up their hardware, etc., even though this forum is a very positive exception in this respect)
Especially in the case of for example phred's and psychoadept's, they do serve a purpose that benefits other users.
So if you would ask me, have such useful signatures 'sticky', and others can be grey type on a grey background ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 08:24:46 PM
A new update based on hiccup's suggestion about color scheme of the forum.
Go to forum and REFRESH the browser to clear the cache. Light color scheme does not have weird dark contrast.

That is really looking very good!
And as mentioned before, the dark theme is also fantastic. Almost feels like working in Photoshop ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 08:25:47 PM
I personally really don't care about signatures, and usually find them distracting and kind of senseless. (wisecracks, summing up their hardware, etc., even though this forum is a very positive exception in this respect)
Especially in the case of for example phred's and psychoadept's, they do serve a purpose that benefits other users.
So if you would ask me, have such useful signatures 'sticky', and others can be grey type on a grey background ;-)

unfortunately it is not possible to have a sticky signature in smf.

but they are not completely hidden. you just have to mouse over their post
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 08:27:13 PM
That is really looking very good!
And as mentioned before, the dark theme is also fantastic. Almost feels like working in Photoshop ;-)
^^
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 08:27:46 PM
I believe my sig (and psycho's) not only helps the user-base, but it saves an enormous number of keystrokes.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 08:30:21 PM
unfortunately it is not possible to have a sticky signature in smf.
but they are not completely hidden. you just have to mouse over their post

Maybe I am an actor in Groundhog Day now, but related to this, wasn't there a setting that you had to have a certain status as a forum member before you are allowed to create a signature?
That would be good to prevent new users misusing this feature.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 08:33:37 PM
Maybe I am an actor in Groundhog Day now, but related to this, wasn't there a setting that you had to have a certain status as a forum member before you are allowed to create a signature?
That would be good to prevent new users misusing this feature.

No there was never any feature like that. What you are talking is the new wysiwyg editor toolbar, where any member who have over 20-30 posts can see some extra toolbar buttons.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 21, 2016, 08:35:07 PM
I believe my sig (and psycho's) not only helps the user-base, but it saves an enormous number of keystrokes.
Ofc i understand that thats why i am asking for feedback on this.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 21, 2016, 08:35:20 PM
FWIW, when I see a sig that is obviously spam, I sent a polite PM to the user asking them to remove it as it is considered spam.  I've had no complaints.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 09:03:41 PM
wasn't there a setting that you had to have a certain status as a forum member before you are allowed to create a signature?
No there was never any feature like that. What you are talking is the new wysiwyg editor toolbar, where any member who have over 20-30 posts can see some extra toolbar buttons.

Ah yes, that was it. So that same condition can not be set for being allowed to create a signature?
Well, not a real problem anyway. Same as phred until now I only once had one small issue with a users signature.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 21, 2016, 11:21:12 PM
Don't loose a second of sleep over this, but if I look with some detail at some icons and texts, some are not as smooth as others.
The edgy text is probably due to my own deliberate disabling of cleartype. You solved that already for all important locations, so don't bother too much about these minor locations.

Could the edgy icons also be a result of that? Are they in fact some true-type font or something?

4 times enlarged:
(http://i.imgur.com/P8SFDais.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/P8SFDai.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 12:38:24 AM
Don't loose a second of sleep over this, but if I look with some detail at some icons and texts, some are not as smooth as others.
The edgy text is probably due to my own deliberate disabling of cleartype. You solved that already for all important locations, so don't bother too much about these minor locations.

Could the edgy icons also be a result of that? Are they in fact some true-type font or something?

4 times enlarged:
the edgy text is broken in most of the sites, i haven't fixed them and it is broken in some places like the forum searchbox. I will fix them when the site is complete.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 04:30:07 AM
Okay another update this time. It is a big one. :)

The New Dashboard is now live. It is still WIP, although almost fully functional.
styling for "addon submit" or "update" is not done and "view all addon" is half way there. So do not report bugs. New feature requests are welcome though.

With this new dashboard design any moderator/global mod/admin can now approve addons. and it is super easy. just click approve on the overview panel. or reject it.
New statistics for your most liked or downloaded addons with counters.

Another new addition is that, when a user click on download button for addon, it will open another page stating the redirect. Also it allows database to get download statistics for dashboard.

If you are worried what data gets collected:
your IP(this way it is unique per ip and can not be easily misused),
if you are registered/logged in or not,
and the addon that you are trying to download.


Some huge backend improvement is done.

One nasty pagination bug fixed(which was my stupid mistake).

also @hiccup since you are a global mod, help me out on testing if the following work or not:
go to dashboard and see if you get this message:

(http://i.imgur.com/rGFPphm.jpg)

If you can see this try to approve it and tell me if it works properly for global mod too.

I have already approved the one that phred_phred submitted and it seem to work.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 04:34:18 AM
Ah yes, that was it. So that same condition can not be set for being allowed to create a signature?
Well, not a real problem anyway. Same as phred until now I only once had one small issue with a users signature.
Well i guess it is possible but not really feeling doing it since it would be a hack and will break whenever any SMF update is done.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 04:41:18 AM
Currently the new forum doesn't look properly in 1600x900 resolution. Is this a known issue?

(http://i.imgur.com/x8XKaUO.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 04:43:23 AM
Currently the new forum doesn't look properly in 1600x900 resolution. Is this a known issue?

No it is not an issue, just refresh the page and it should be okay.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 04:46:25 AM
Yeah, it works. Was it browser cache?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 04:51:45 AM
Yeah, it works. Was it browser cache?
yup. I updated the forum styling today so you need to clear the cache.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 04:57:40 AM
OK. Thanks!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 05:00:30 AM
OK. Thanks!
Btw, the issue that you pointed out with avatar disabled and posts needs smaller height is now mostly fixed.
if you have avatar disabled posts will use lesser height.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 05:05:46 AM
Two things about the forum structures:

- Questions under Support section is not necessary as quite often a question develops into discussion. Also people will keep posting questions on General Discussions board.
- Why is plugins alone not a child board? It just takes up vertical space.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 05:06:41 AM
Btw, the issue that you pointed out with avatar disabled and posts needs smaller height is now mostly fixed.
if you have avatar disabled posts will use lesser height.

Great. Thanks!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 05:16:33 AM
- Questions under Support section is not necessary as quite often a question develops into discussion. Also people will keep posting questions on General Discussions board.
Well general is for discussion if a question ever turns into discussion op will be asked to create a new thread in general for discussion purpose.

- Why is plugins alone not a child board? It just takes up vertical space.
Plugins are not same as customizations.  They intend to allow more functionality while custimization controls how musicbee looks. thats why it have separate board.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 05:41:55 AM
- Questions under Support section is not necessary as quite often a question develops into discussion. Also people will keep posting questions on General Discussions board.
Well general is for discussion if a question ever turns into discussion op will be asked to create a new thread in general for discussion purpose.

For a big forum with lots of mods and members, it might work. But not for this forum.

- Why is plugins alone not a child board? It just takes up vertical space.
Plugins are not same as customizations.  They intend to allow more functionality while custimization controls how musicbee looks. thats why it have separate board.

Then drop the word customizations. They are all add-ons and it looks strange all others are cramped under one board except plugins.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 22, 2016, 05:49:39 AM
I agree with redwing, there's no effective way to separate "questions" from "discussions".
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 05:52:38 AM
For a big forum with lots of mods and members, it might work. But not for this forum.
well it is not MANDATORY for user to create a new discussion thread in general. If they want they should be able to continue in on the question section. ofc it probably won't get as much response.
The general space is for discussion of all things. be it a question, ideas, polls.

Currently most general posts are short Q&A style. so it should not affect the majority.

Then drop the word customizations. They are all add-ons and it looks strange all others are cramped under one board except plugins.
They are divided by their functionality.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 06:07:44 AM
I agree with redwing, there's no effective way to separate "questions" from "discussions".

Lets look at some stat here:
the current general board have 95% Q&A, and gets less than 5 reply to solve their issues. It is not fit for general discussion but more of Q&A.

(http://i.imgur.com/Ae0lChDl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Ae0lChD.jpg)

On the other hand it creates issues for discussion threads. If a discussion thread is not active for 3-4 day it gets buried under all these questions. And i highly doubt anyone even bother to find them by searching and reopen the discussion.

To overcome this issue general thread will not be used for short Q&A but rather polls, discussion, concepts, idea/suggestions, meta.
Questions will be used for short Q&A, medium sized Q&A for existing and beta musicbee only.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: psychoadept on March 22, 2016, 06:21:42 AM
I get the idea, I'm just saying with a few exceptions you can't necessarily predict which threads are going to generate the most discussion, and new member behavior is always hard to manage.  Look at how hard it is to get bugs in bugs, portable devices in portable devices, keep questions out of tips & tricks, and so on already.  It would create a lot more work for the mods trying to keep things in the right place.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 08:04:43 AM
Look at how hard it is to get bugs in bugs,
Bug report is one of the thing i don't get. For MusicBee 3 all bug reports are is discussion thread, so it is confusing if i should use bug thread to report or just post them in discussion?

Also sometime it gets more confusing if a certain MusicBee behavior is intended or not! and ends up being a bug :S
Maybe merge them with questions! Or a single sticky thread just like for MusicBee 3 to post bugs and get them fixed.

portable devices in portable devices, keep questions out of tips & tricks, and so on already.  It would create a lot more work for the mods trying to keep things in the right place.
I do get it. But Customization and Plugins (as of now) boards/topics are used by skinners/plugin developers, and they are not novice. I wouldn't worry about them.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:06:58 AM
- Questions under Support section is not necessary as quite often a question develops into discussion. Also people will keep posting questions on General Discussions board.
Well general is for discussion if a question ever turns into discussion op will be asked to create a new thread in general for discussion purpose.
For a big forum with lots of mods and members, it might work. But not for this forum.

Especially frorm the standpoint of new users (which many seem to care a lot about here), I feel it is very natural to have a separate 'Questions' board.
A newbee with questions will immediately understand where to go, and will feel welcome. Members with the initiative to help other users will also now exactly where to go.

And there are topics that deserve such a separate board such as 'General Discussion', and preferably shouldn't be mixed with 'Questions'.

To name a few examples:

- [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
- GUI changes for v3.0
- Official MB appreciation thread
- Wiki pages
- Any polls could go there
- other matters which are not a specific request for help or assistance.

When transitioning from the old to the new board, we can move all topics from the current 'General Discussions' board to the new 'Questions' board, except for the very few from the above example, which go the new 'general Discussion' board.
I thnk after that it will be very clear to everybody where to post and look.
The new 'General Discussion' board will probably get a lot less activity and new topics after that.
It will therefore be quite easy to maintain it in the rare case that some user asks a question, and oversees the big 'Question' board.


Summarizing, I think it is a logical improvement, and I don't see any problems we can't easily handle.
What I can see happening in the beginning, is that some more experienced members that are used to posting in 'General Discussion' might have some short learning curve to learn that also their questions belong in 'Questions', and that it is not some 'newbees corner'. But that would be easy to control and correct.

As a moderator I would probably hardly ever touch or move a post posted in 'Questions'.
And in the case that an initial, clear question turns into something that is not a question anymore, I myself would just leave it under 'Questions' and wouldn't bother on evaluating or deciding on if I perhaps should move it.
Anybody involved in that topic who feels that a matter that deserves a 'General Discussion' evolved from that question, is very welcome to create a topic for that in 'General Discussion' possibly with adding a simple link to the original question.

I would keep an eye on 'General Discussion' though, and would probably only have to move posts from there to 'Questions' that are clearly questions for help on a specific matter.

So, I am all for it.

Absolute worst case scenario: it doesn't work as well as I believe it will, and then we just merge those two boards again at a later moment. No harm done.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:22:02 AM
@Steven,

For the new forum structure, I oversaw that there currently is a child board 'portable devices' under 'Bugs'.
Do you want that to be the the same for the new board?
Perhaps other changes or additions to that?

I have no specific suggestion right now, but we might consider some mechanism that could perhaps decrease the amount of posted bugs that actually concern plug-ins and add-ons, and not MusicBee itself.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 09:24:57 AM
@hiccup can you check this out and let me know if it works for you or not?
@hiccup since you are a global mod, help me out on testing if the following work or not:
go to dashboard and see if you get this message:

(http://i.imgur.com/rGFPphm.jpg)

If you can see this try to approve it and tell me if it works properly for global mod too.

I have already approved the one that phred_phred submitted and it seem to work.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:34:13 AM
Works!

(http://i.imgur.com/CGhRkDdl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/CGhRkDd.png)

A few observations, I first couldn't find 'Dashboard'. I didn't expect to find it under the 'little man icon'. Wouldn't a fixed text button be better?
The above message appears at the right bottom of the screen. Perhaps better if that was more in the centre of the screen?
'Successfull' should be spelled 'Successful'
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 09:39:38 AM
Works!
Good to know :)

A few observations, I first couldn't find 'Dashboard'. I didn't expect to find it under the 'little man icon'. Wouldn't a fixed text button be better?
yeah i guess you are right. I will make some adjustment in this area.

The above message appears at the right bottom of the screen. Perhaps better if that was more in the centre of the screen?
at first it was at the top of the screen, then side and now bottom. is there any reason for it to be on the center? it is just a notification not a prompt.

'Successfull' should be spelled 'Successful'
Thanks fixed for the next update.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:42:48 AM
at first it was at the top of the screen, then side and now bottom. is there any reason for it to be on the center? it is just a notification not a prompt.

Well, my precious eyes wasted 1,119 seconds of their life searching for it ;-)
Wouldn't 'centre' be the most logical location for pop-up messages?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 09:45:00 AM
Well, my precious eyes wasted 1,119 seconds of their life searching for it ;-)
Wouldn't 'centre' be the most logical location for pop-up messages?
it is not a intrusive popup, much more like a subtle notification saying "hey the last action is successful! just so you know!"
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:46:22 AM
Just a fun observation, I noticed how the childboard buttons change color when you change between light and dark theme.
Very sophisticated. I just can't stop myself switching themes now ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:47:48 AM
Well, my precious eyes wasted 1,119 seconds of their life searching for it ;-)
Wouldn't 'centre' be the most logical location for pop-up messages?
it is not a intrusive popup, much more like a subtle notification saying "hey the last action is successful! just so you know!"

Ok, you are probably right.
I closed it with the 'X' button though. Does it fade away after a few seconds by itself?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:53:04 AM
When I collapse a board category, the whole panel jumps to the bottom of the screen, so you will have to scroll up again?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 09:53:17 AM
Just a fun observation, I noticed how the childboard buttons change color when you change between light and dark theme.
Very sophisticated. I just can't stop myself switching themes now ;-)
haha. it uses a transition based animation thats why a little bit delay between changing colors.

(http://img.memecdn.com/press-all-the-buttons_o_776230.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 09:54:17 AM
Ok, you are probably right.
I closed it with the 'X' button though. Does it fade away after a few seconds by itself?
nope. i haven't implemented that yet. maybe in future. not a priority now.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 09:55:50 AM
Ok, you are probably right.
I closed it with the 'X' button though. Does it fade away after a few seconds by itself?
nope. i haven't implemented that yet. maybe in future. not a priority now.

Ok, but in that case, if you do have to click it to go away, then 'centre' would be much preferred in my opinion.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 10:00:19 AM
Ok, but in that case, if you do have to click it to go away, then 'centre' would be much preferred in my opinion.

well i have plan to implement autohide in future. so it would be waste to put it in center and then put at the corner again when autohide is added!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 10:29:27 AM
Look at how hard it is to get bugs in bugs, portable devices in portable devices,

If you look at how that separation between 'normal bugs' and 'portable bugs' is currently displayed, even I myself would probably overlook it. Let alone a newbee:

(http://i.imgur.com/LH9YW63l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/LH9YW63.png)

On the new forum that is presented a lot better.
(actually I have to add this specific childboard yet, but just take a look at how childboards are presented in the new forum.)

And as a general remark, many here seem very worried, and have some assumptions on possible problematic 'users behavior' and their capabilities to understand what is what, and how to behave.

My experience is very positive in this respect.
This forum and it's community seems to work quite well together, and seems to be quite self-cleansing and self-maintaining.
Unless Steven has different experiences, and corrects/deletes/moves a lot behind the screens that I am not aware of, the maintenance pressure on moderation is quite low.

So let's not underestimate this self-filtering, self-maintaining, self-learning mechanism that seems to work quite well here.
And let's not underestimate the intelligence of newbees either.
They may be new to MB or this forum, but that doesn't say anything about their common sense, intelligence or experience with other fora and software.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 11:17:29 AM
Just a fun observation, I noticed how the childboard buttons change color when you change between light and dark theme.
Very sophisticated. I just can't stop myself switching themes now ;-)
haha. it uses a transition based animation thats why a little bit delay between changing colors.

This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 11:19:35 AM
Just curious, do you (and Steven) have some timeline set, as a goal when to activate the new forum?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 01:48:39 PM
And there are topics that deserve such a separate board such as 'General Discussion', and preferably shouldn't be mixed with 'Questions'.

To name a few examples:

- [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
- GUI changes for v3.0
- Official MB appreciation thread
- Wiki pages
- Any polls could go there
- other matters which are not a specific request for help or assistance.

That makes sense.
Then I'd suggest (1) move Questions board to General section (2) make the General Discussion board a child board under Questions board.
That way it would be much easier to maintain because mods can move only a few "real" discussion threads to the child board and it won't disrupt existing members' posting habit nor cause any confusions by separating boards. Also it won't suppress any spontaneous development of discussion out of a plain question, and there would be no need to create a new thread from ongoing discussion.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 02:04:43 PM
And there are topics that deserve such a separate board such as 'General Discussion', and preferably shouldn't be mixed with 'Questions'.
To name a few examples:
- [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
- GUI changes for v3.0
- Official MB appreciation thread
- Wiki pages
- Any polls could go there
- other matters which are not a specific request for help or assistance.

That makes sense.
Then I'd suggest (1) move Questions board to General section (2) make the General Discussion board a child board under Questions board.
That way it would be much easier to maintain because mods can move only a few "real" discussion threads to the child board and it won't disrupt existing members' posting habit nor cause any confusions by separating boards. Also it won't suppress any spontaneous development of discussion out of a plain question, and there would be no need to create a new thread from ongoing discussion.

I don't agree. Topics such as "Official MB appreciation threadOfficial MB appreciation thread", are not questions, and therefore shouldn't reside under 'Questions'.
Also 'General Discussions' would then fall under the category 'Support', where I don't think it belongs.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 02:09:58 PM
- Questions under Support section is not necessary as quite often a question develops into discussion. Also people will keep posting questions on General Discussions board.
Well general is for discussion if a question ever turns into discussion op will be asked to create a new thread in general for discussion purpose.
For a big forum with lots of mods and members, it might work. But not for this forum.
- Why is plugins alone not a child board? It just takes up vertical space.
Plugins are not same as customizations.  They intend to allow more functionality while custimization controls how musicbee looks. thats why it have separate board.
Then drop the word customizations. They are all add-ons and it looks strange all others are cramped under one board except plugins.

About the current structure for the new forum and it's terminology:

A main category you mentioned is 'MusicBee Add-ons'

That should make it clear that under that category you can find all sorts of 'extra's' that are developed for MusicBee, but not by default present in the installer.
That should be easy to understand, and seems logical.

Then, we indeed have two separated boards for:
'extra's' that have a mainly visual function (layout, skins, theatremode etc.), and we have a board for:
'extra's' that have more impact on the working and functionality of MusicBee. (such as Boroda74's tool, audio plugins, lyrics, social media, whatever)

To me that seems a very defendable separation.

I used the word 'extra's' here on purpose.
We can have discussions until hell freezes over if we should words such as extensions, customisations, add-ins, add-ons, plug-ins, or whatever, and for every argument given for one, I am very sure somebody will step in and just argue the contrary. (trust me, I even had these arguments in my own head too ;-)

The current wordings were thought over and discussed, and I believe are very defendable and understandable.
And if they are also used consistantly on the wiki, the forum, the website, by the creators, etc, they should stick very quickly.

I also see some suggestions and even arguments on the weight that the number of childboards should have, or the weight that traffic a certain board generates is so important. I don't support that line of thought much.
First of all the structure should just make sense and be as simple and logical as possible.
Some board may be very popular at a certain moment, others might get less traffic. So what, that doesn't change the concept of the structure.
Would anyone argue that every board should have the exact same number of childboards? (well, I wouldn't)
A house has one doorbell, a high-rise building may have 200, yet they can be located next to each other perfectly.

Also, we can later easily extend boards that have no, or few childboards.
If or when for example the plugins topic gets more popular, and more plugins are created, we can always add childboards to it. For for example 'audio', 'tagging', 'web' or whatever.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 02:12:03 PM
I don't agree. Topics such as "Official MB appreciation threadOfficial MB appreciation thread", are not questions, and therefore shouldn't reside under 'Questions'.
Also 'General Discussions' would then fall under the category 'Support', where I don't think it belongs.

I think both should be under General section, and Support section should be confined only to devs support like the current structure.
If people agree on that, we could think of better naming for the two boards.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 02:21:19 PM
About the current structure for the new forum and it's terminology:
...

You seem to be really fond of arguing.
All I'm saying is it looks strange to separate plugins alone from all other add-ons. What would the harm be if all belong to one board?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 02:30:13 PM
About the current structure for the new forum and it's terminology:
...

You seem to be really fond of arguing.
All I'm saying is it looks strange to separate plugins alone from all other add-ons. What would the harm be if all belong to one board?

No, that is not all you are saying.
You commented on the wording 'customisations' being wrong, you commented that you believe 'Questions' should not be under 'Support', you commented that 'General Discussions' should be moved under 'Questions'. (and maybe I missed something else)

------

I think you are mistaking arguing, for me making an effort trying to explain how this all came about, what the thought process was and is on creating this structure.
The current proposed structure is not my personal baby, it is a result from normal discussions, open on this forum that started quite a while ago.
At this moment also AvikB and Steven seem to be happy with the current proposal.

Now you come up saying that you disagree with some of it. That's fine. And I disagree with your new suggestions, and I am making an effort to explain to you why.
If you conceive that as arguing, it is probably better for me to let this just rest.

edit,
I added the first two sentences to my reply.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 02:41:32 PM
If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than you disagree, let's see what others think of those matters.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 02:52:17 PM
If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than you disagree, let's see what others think of those matters.

Distill from my detailed explanations what you want.
If the only thing you can register is: 'somebody disagrees with me', that's on you.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 02:54:27 PM
This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.
DAMN! i though no one would notice it and i could get away with it ;( now i have to fix it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 22, 2016, 02:57:12 PM
If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than you disagree, let's see what others think of those matters.

Distill from my detailed explanations what you want.
If the only thing you can register is: 'somebody disagrees with me', that's on you.

Stop being childish. Then answer to my questions.

I think both should be under General section, and Support section should be confined only to devs support like the current structure.
If people agree on that, we could think of better naming for the two boards.

What would the harm be if all belong to one board?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 02:57:25 PM
This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.
DAMN! i though no one would notice it and i could get away with it ;( now i have to fix it.

Haha,
Do you want me to shut-up about such details from now on, so you can focus on important stuff?
Don't answer, I will.  ;-)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 02:58:13 PM
Just curious, do you (and Steven) have some timeline set, as a goal when to activate the new forum?
I am holding back until the new dashboard is done. the forum is complete only few minor styling fixes.
There is no exact ETA. It will be done when i feel it is stable and done for v1.0
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 03:05:33 PM
Haha,
Do you want me to shut-up about such details from now on, so you can focus on important stuff?
Don't answer, I will.  ;-)

nah, it is fine. It actually pushes me to fix those issues rather than being lazy and skip them :P
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 03:11:57 PM
A new update for the dashboard and notification center.

After Hiccup mentioned the ability to autohide the small notifications i have made some adjustments and some styling improvement.

From now, notifications now use smooth animations and autohide after5seconds, you can also manually dismiss them.

one major bug fix that i just noticed today is the ability to press back button and go back to previous page. It fixed the issue with dashboard but completely broke admin panel navigation which i haven't fixed(will do after dashboard completes).
Also from this point 98% of previous style removed. you shouldn't see any difference though. But due to this few things are broken(functional but have weird looks):
admin panel and dashboard submission.

Also few new functionality added to dashboard.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 03:14:38 PM
nah, it is fine. It actually pushes me to fix those issues rather than being lazy and skip them :P

Ok.
I am probably also a bit lazy myself exploring new features and testing out stuff on the new forum by myself, so let me know whenever you need some specific features tested.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 03:21:24 PM
another plan for the future or more likely plans to remove another feature.

direct mediafire upload will be removed from dashboard submission in future. reasons:
only 4MB filesize.
has some security concerns as it uploads the file to musicbee server first.
also for the previous reason would create bandwidth issue
someone has to monitor mediafire account.
if not monitored anyone can upload illegal stuff and the account could be taken down. which creates the issue of losing all uploads. :(

due to these reasons it will be removed. IMGUR upload on the other hand will stay.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 03:21:28 PM
From now, notifications now use smooth animations and autohide after5seconds, you can also manually dismiss them.

Nice.

It could be my eyes, my monitor, of both, but I find this text slightly difficult to read.

(http://i.imgur.com/s7jj1CFl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/s7jj1CF.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 03:24:21 PM
Nice.
:) hope it works properly for everyone. I haven't tested much on firefox only opera and chrome.

It could be my eyes, my monitor, of both, but I find this text slightly difficult to read.
is it the colors? other than that they perfectly readable other than being edgy.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 03:31:19 PM
is it the colors? other than that they perfectly readable other than being edgy.

Edgy is fine here ;-)
No, it's just that the color seems to be a bit light.
But if it is a result of my strict no-cleartype policy and not too high-end display, please just leave it.
It is readable fine enough.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 03:35:37 PM
Edgy is fine here ;-)
No, it's just that the color seems to be a bit light.
But if it is a result of my strict no-cleartype policy and not too high-end display, please just leave it.
It is readable fine enough.
It looks fine while font smoothing turned on. I won't change it unless it is much demanded, since the whole site now uses that font color.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 03:40:31 PM
It looks fine while font smoothing turned on. I won't change it unless it is much demanded, since the whole site now uses that font color.

Fair enough, not a problem.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 05:15:07 PM
I wan't to shed some concerns and warnings for the uk/us/other language discussion. Instead of doing pm it is more likely a notice rather than a discussion.

THIS IS RELATED TO MUSICBEE WEBSITE LANGUAGE NOT FORUM.

DO NOT DISCUSS ANY FORUM RELATED LANGUAGE HERE.

The new site will support different languages, That means community can make UK translation of the whole site(except forum), or US translation, Russian, Chinese, Japanese,and others . The default will be en-us but User will be able to choose any of them they prefer via dropdown on the footer.

BUT you won't be able to change language for anything under add-on menu, once the site is live. they will ALWAYS be in english and maybe us/uk whatever we decide (only one time change, before goes live).
(https://i.imgur.com/IhXXbVV.jpg)

Different language support is something is already mostly done from the alpha stage. here is peak of the language file
https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/blob/Dev/includes/languages/en-us.php (https://github.com/Avik-B/mb_web/blob/Dev/includes/languages/en-us.php)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 22, 2016, 06:46:57 PM
the original reason i created a sub-topic for portable devices was because i (naively) thought that it would have the most bugs reported and need special treatment.
There isnt a good reason to have it split going forward
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 22, 2016, 06:50:41 PM
just regarding the new forum, i really like how its been done but i have one thing i dont really like and thats the orange bar in the left of each section header - I find the orange bars quite distracting and to me makes it feel messy.
If i'm the only one that feels that way then please leave it as-is

Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 06:57:20 PM
the original reason i created a sub-topic for portable devices was because i (naively) thought that it would have the most bugs reported and need special treatment.
There isnt a good reason to have it split going forward

ok,

Just thinking, would it perhaps be an idea to create a childboard under bugs named something like "readme first"
We could have only 1 sticky topic in that board, explaining good practice in reporting bugs. Such as advising posters to mention what MB version they are using, if they are using specific plugins that might be related to their issue, what AV software they might be using, etc.?

(http://i.imgur.com/AQCOHDBl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/AQCOHDB.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 07:23:02 PM
just regarding the new forum, i really like how its been done but i have one thing i dont really like and thats the orange bar in the left of each section header - I find the orange bars quite distracting and to me makes it feel messy.
If i'm the only one that feels that way then please leave it as-is


the orange bars are there for a little bit variation. otherwise it looks way too blunt. orange bars will catch the eye easily and makes it easy to focus on those category.

ofc if other members think this is too distracting, then i will remove it.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 07:26:48 PM
the orange bars are there for a little bit variation. otherwise it looks way too blunt. orange bars will catch the eye easily and makes it easy to focus on those category.

I think I like them.
It gives the page just a little bit extra personality, and I like the color setting.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 22, 2016, 07:29:35 PM
Just thinking, would it perhaps be an idea to create a childboard under bugs named something like "readme first"
We could have only 1 sticky topic in that board, explaining good practice in reporting bugs. Such as advising posters to mention what MB version they are using, if they are using specific plugins that might be related to their issue, what AV software they might be using, etc.?
Perhaps it's just the negative side of me bursting through, but people won't read it.

Doesn't the current Bug Reports sub-forum have a popup when a user creates a new topic?  If not, it used to.  I feel the same should apply here.  People will be -forced- to read it.  (Or just click right through it.)  But I think there's a better chance of them reading something that causes posting-interruptus than someone going to a readme first post.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 22, 2016, 07:31:32 PM
is it the colors? other than that they perfectly readable other than being edgy.

Edgy is fine here ;-)
No, it's just that the color seems to be a bit light.
But if it is a result of my strict no-cleartype policy and not too high-end display, please just leave it.
It is readable fine enough.
I'm basing this only on the screenshot as I haven't had time to look at the test site.  There's not enough contrast between the brownish text and the white background.  That's what makes it difficult to read.  I think the text should be darker.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 07:38:18 PM
Perhaps it's just the negative side of me bursting through, but people won't read it.
Doesn't the current Bug Reports sub-forum have a popup when a user creates a new topic?  If not, it used to.  I feel the same should apply here.  People will be -forced- to read it.  (Or just click right through it.)  But I think there's a better chance of them reading something that causes posting-interruptus than someone going to a readme first post.

Maybe you are right.
But I personally have some negative response when some pop-up shows up unwanted and forces me to do something.

Don't you think that cute little button looks very inviting to press?
I would imagine people will be curious what's behind it, and will then voluntarily take it's contents more seriously and with a little more respect then coming from a forced pop-up.
Also such a message in a post could be brought with some humor, to make it a bit more interesting to read.
A pop-up will probably have to be short and a bit demanding.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
I'm basing this only on the screenshot as I haven't had time to look at the test site.  There's not enough contrast between the brownish text and the white background.  That's what makes it difficult to read.  I think the text should be darker.
the text is a bit darker if you have font-smoothing enabled.

(https://i.imgur.com/GpfZD5J.jpg)

As you can see clearly, the problem is with the people who don't use font smoothing. I won't fix this until the very end, it is not high priority right now.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 07:43:38 PM
Maybe you are right.
But I personally have some negative response when some pop-up shows up unwanted and forces me to do something.
Same here. i don't like intrusive popups either.

Don't you think that cute little button looks very inviting to press?
come on! we are not 12 year olds. :P the only button i might press is a button with a kitten face or saying something like "Read this or you are dead!"
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 07:49:01 PM
I'm basing this only on the screenshot as I haven't had time to look at the test site.  There's not enough contrast between the brownish text and the white background.  That's what makes it difficult to read.  I think the text should be darker.

You should indeed look at the site, and not take my screenshot as representative.
I am creating this issue a little bit for myself, since I always disable that horrific creation called cleartype (or font-smoothing).
Since many website builders blindly use cleartype, they have no idea how fonts turn out looking on systems without having cleartype enabled.

The situation is even so bad, that there are more and more fonts, designed to look extra good under cleartype, but as a result look extra-horrible without it.
AvikB has taken the trouble to implement a replacement font for all important parts of the site and forum, so a good font is used for systems with cleartype disabled.

Maybe I'll add a screenshot to this post later, to show you how bad some website fonts look on my system.

edit:
Even Intel has no clue about this. look at it:

(http://i.imgur.com/DdXBSgQl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/DdXBSgQ.png)

And even a respected IT site as Anandtech don't get it:

(http://i.imgur.com/BPzXHvDl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/BPzXHvD.png)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 07:50:17 PM
Maybe you are right.
But I personally have some negative response when some pop-up shows up unwanted and forces me to do something.
Same here. i don't like intrusive popups either.

Don't you think that cute little button looks very inviting to press?
come on! we are not 12 year olds. :P the only button i might press is a button with a kitten face or saying something like "Read this or you are dead!"

Yes! Add a funny fart sound when you press it too!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 08:00:24 PM
You should indeed look at the site, and not take my screenshot as representative.
I am creating this issue a little bit for myself, since I always disable that horrific creation called cleartype (or font-smoothing).
Since many websites blindly use cleartype, they have no idea how fonts turn out looking on systems without having cleartype enabled.

The situation is even so bad, that there are more and more fonts, designed to look extra good under cleartype, but as a result look extra-horrible without it.
The default fon't i used here is roboto. it is designed and maintained by google for it's android system. It looks gorgeous under clear type. But is horrible without it.
 I won't say they use it blindly. it is just something devs probably never faced. If you haven't notified me of the issue i would've never implemented the fallback feature.

Maybe it is time you switch back to ceartype. it is gorgeous! :)

AvikB has taken the trouble to implement a replacement font for all important parts of the site and forum, so a good font is used for systems with cleartype disabled.
since the site is under beta process, i am not implementing fallback feature now. and it should look horrible without clear type. But remind me of these issue(if i forgot) when we are in final stage. With the new styling system it should be way easier to do and maintain.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 08:03:26 PM
Even Intel has no clue about this. look at it:
Come on it is not that bad! give me 5 minute and i can decipher them.

And even a respected IT site as Anandtech don't get it:
Thats a really long captcha. :O
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 08:07:21 PM
Even Intel has no clue about this. look at it:
Come on it is not that bad! give me 5 minute and i can decipher them.

And even a respected IT site as Anandtech don't get it:
Thats a really long captcha. :O

Haha, right!

Now you understand why I am so grateful that you are addressing, and fixing this.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 08:26:28 PM
Haha, right!

Now you understand why I am so grateful that you are addressing, and fixing this.

Btw, it seems you have created the read me first post in the new forum.
I have added some info there of what should be provided. :)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 08:31:16 PM
Haha, right!

Now you understand why I am so grateful that you are addressing, and fixing this.

Btw, it seems you have created the read me first post in the new forum.
I have added some info there of what should be provided. :)

Ah, the honey is attracting bees already...
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 08:38:12 PM
Ah, the honey is attracting bees already...

:) was getting bored! so decided to post some ideas on that sub
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 08:42:43 PM
Ah, the honey is attracting bees already...

:) was getting bored! so decided to post some ideas on that sub

You are not allowed to be bored. You have so much on your plate with the site and the forum.


The 'read me first!' button is just a try-out to see how it would look if implemented.
Let's wait what other members and Steven think about it.
Either we then remove it again, or we indeed make it a good bug-posting tutorial.

b.t.w. if we are going to do this, I think we should replace wordings such as "you need to" etc. by "it would be very helpful if you" etc. etc.
A friendly tone there would probably give best results.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 08:49:53 PM
You are not allowed to be bored. You have so much on your plate with the site and the forum.
I know. i am doing that. just taking break from it to get fresh ideas of doing few things or how to fix certain bugs. :)

The 'read me first!' button is just a try-out to see how it would look if implemented.
Let's wait what other members and Steven think about it.
Either we then remove it again, or we indeed make it a good bug-posting tutorial.

b.t.w. if we are going to do this, I think we should replace wordings such as "you need to" etc. by "it would be very helpful if you" etc. etc.
A friendly tone there would probably give best results.
how about "Read this or die"
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 22, 2016, 08:52:11 PM
how about "Read this or die"

What, you will promise them everlasting life if they do read it?
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 22, 2016, 09:28:31 PM
What, you will promise them everlasting life if they do read it?

yup.*

*terms and conditions apply
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 23, 2016, 04:46:29 AM
New update with some bug fixes for the forum.

WYSIWYG editor bug fixes where inserting image button won't work in wysiwyg view(but works in source view) and
Youtube, link button not working.

Some minor bug fixes.

Dashboard improvemnt.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 23, 2016, 05:19:48 AM
@Steven;

Let me know what you think of my suggestions regarding questions board and discussion board.

And there are topics that deserve such a separate board such as 'General Discussion', and preferably shouldn't be mixed with 'Questions'.

To name a few examples:

- [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
- GUI changes for v3.0
- Official MB appreciation thread
- Wiki pages
- Any polls could go there
- other matters which are not a specific request for help or assistance.

That makes sense.
Then I'd suggest (1) move Questions board to General section (2) make the General Discussion board a child board under Questions board.
That way it would be much easier to maintain because mods can move only a few "real" discussion threads to the child board and it won't disrupt existing members' posting habit nor cause any confusions by separating boards. Also it won't suppress any spontaneous development of discussion out of a plain question, and there would be no need to create a new thread from ongoing discussion.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: Steven on March 23, 2016, 09:53:56 AM
@redwing, i quite like how its been done now - especially having Questions under support. Of course some people will put stuff in places not intended no matter how clear things are made.
For now I not sure how well "General Discussions" as its own topic will work but i can see the need for it. This sort of thing is easily changed if it doesnt work out
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: redwing on March 23, 2016, 10:02:10 AM
@redwing, i quite like how its been done now - especially having Questions under support. Of course some people will put stuff in places not intended no matter how clear things are made.
For now I not sure how well "General Discussions" as its own topic will work but i can see the need for it. This sort of thing is easily changed if it doesnt work out

OK, then I won't raise this issue any more until the community starts re-discussing it when things don't go well as planned. Thanks for replying!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 23, 2016, 01:19:03 PM
just regarding the new forum, i really like how its been done but i have one thing i dont really like and thats the orange bar in the left of each section header - I find the orange bars quite distracting and to me makes it feel messy.
If i'm the only one that feels that way then please leave it as-is
You're not the only one who feels that way about the orange.  It's distracting and seems to interrupt an otherwise clean look.  Especially since the various groups are already nicely defined by the horizontal gray bar.  I think the orange vertical bars should disappear and extend the gray all the way across.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 23, 2016, 03:37:29 PM
New update.

With this update the new addon submit form has a much more cleaner look.
Language file is improved for dashboard.
Notification popup is now much more robust. and validates json object.
For worst case scenario, you will get notification popup with "copy error" button and instruction for posting on forum.
Mediafire upload is removed.
added security for preventing directory listing.

Removed orange bar from forum.

Some styling are still broken for dashboard. i am working on them. but overall it is nearly complete.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 23, 2016, 03:38:21 PM
just regarding the new forum, i really like how its been done but i have one thing i dont really like and thats the orange bar in the left of each section header - I find the orange bars quite distracting and to me makes it feel messy.
If i'm the only one that feels that way then please leave it as-is
You're not the only one who feels that way about the orange.  It's distracting and seems to interrupt an otherwise clean look.  Especially since the various groups are already nicely defined by the horizontal gray bar.  I think the orange vertical bars should disappear and extend the gray all the way across.

Orange bar Removed, you will need to refresh the page to clear the cache.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: phred on March 23, 2016, 03:47:53 PM
Orange bar Removed, you will need to refresh the page to clear the cache.
Much better!!  Thanks.
I feel the top level categories (General, MusicBee Add-ons, Support, etc) are difficult to read when hovered over.  If the color is red (and I'm not sure what it is) perhaps changing it to the same orangey color as the sub-categories.
(http://i.imgur.com/Fi5XPySl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Fi5XPyS.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 23, 2016, 04:00:19 PM
Much better!!  Thanks.
I feel the top level categories (General, MusicBee Add-ons, Support, etc) are difficult to read when hovered over.  If the color is red (and I'm not sure what it is) perhaps changing it to the same orangey color as the sub-categories.
Fixed.

This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.

fixed.

new updates are pushed. refresh the page to see the changes.
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 23, 2016, 04:17:26 PM
I have some new observations.
(and perhaps one or two I mentioned before, so then forgive me please)

This could be a personal preference, but I would like it if it would be possible to have some more relevant information on the screen at the same time, without the need for much scrolling.
We can't expect the massive amount of context MusicBee itself is able to show on one screen at once, but we might try to go a little bit in that direction?

Some possible items that might help to accomplish that (if you agree with the basic idea of course)

From the first screenshot,
- perhaps 1, 2 and 3 could be made thinner?
- if icon 4 would be a little bit smaller, perhaps that could effect the hight too?

From the same screenshot,
- at 4 it now only shows post counts, on the current forum it also shows topic counts.
- 5, and a few others are misaligned, but that's probably because you were working on that and had some issues


From the second screenshot:
- 6 is very high and massive, could also have to do with the extremely large font for 11

Then about the order of the number items.
This will also be personal, but I would like the most interesting/most viewed items on top.
My preferred order here would then be:
8
9
6
10
7

(http://i.imgur.com/tUHcE2js.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/tUHcE2j.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/yJJrQs0s.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/yJJrQs0.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: hiccup on March 23, 2016, 04:19:21 PM
This is unimportant, but I thought to mention it anyway. Light theme has a mouse over color for these chilboard buttons, dark theme hasn't.
fixed.

Very nice!
Title: Re: [NEW UPDATE] MusicBee website and forum redesign!!
Post by: AvikB on March 23, 2016, 04:56:59 PM
We can't expect the massive amount of context MusicBee itself is able to show on one screen at once, but we might try to go a little bit in that direction?


Some possible items that might help to accomplish that (if you agree with the basic idea of course)

From the first screenshot,
- perhaps 1, 2 and 3 could be made thinner?
1 and 2 are thin enough already. I have no plans for making them thinner.

yes 3 could be a little bit thinner. maybe 4px less. it won't make any huge difference though.

- if icon 4 would be a little bit smaller, perhaps that could effect the hight too?
Yes it will effect the height. this was brought up long time ago, and i trimmed some height to make it more compact. Right now it is as good as it is.