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with the "PureLight BeeMetro" skin and others, i think they would look a lot better if the controls can be de-cluttered some more, especially if the player is docked on the bottom.
I know it has been mentioned before but i will restart this for any comment as i now plan to do something - it might just be a single option, something like "hide navigator controls"
That would cause:
- the header bar with the back/ forward buttons, location bar and panel layout button to not display. For the search box it could go into the caption bar. Not sure about any custom toolbar buttons
- the Now Playing header with the total playlist duration to not display
- the bottom bar with the open/close buttons and the file summary stats to not display. The operation for opening/closing the panels would need to be done via a menu
Any comments? No doubt when i look at this in detail there will be some things that arent immediately obvious that might require more thought
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Great proposal! Here's some input from me:
- When the header bar is hidden, back/forward button could be offered as right-click menu items for the main panel. I guess toolbar buttons could be replaced by user-configured hotkeys as they cover the same commands.
- Would be great if caption bar can be hidden as well, only appearing when the mouse's being moved to the top of the screen.
- In addition to the one single option, also allow to hide/show each bar separately. "View" menu could contain those commands.
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Really like the idea of this. Think it could potentially help MB lose some of its historic 'Windows' look and feel. I am a fan of simplicity when it comes to an apps looks.
The only thing I can see myself missing (as I use them frequently) are the custom toolbar buttons. But as Redwing says, I could just set up some keyboard shortcuts.
I also like redwings idea that a mouseover at the top of the screen could temporarily cause controls to reappear (similar to hidden sidepanels now). Not completely sure about hiding the caption bar itself though as I am a big user of 'tabs in caption bar'. That said, if it looked really good I could be tempted to change behaviour!
Overall, I think this 'Immersive' mode could almost make MB feel visually like a Windows 8 app (but without the pain of actually being one!).
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Any comments?
some good ideas there; especially hiding back/forward and layout buttons, and location bar.
the current UX/UI trend is for more control by icons, so I don't think hiding custom toolbar buttons/icons is a good idea.
with the bottom bar hidden, icon for panel open/close could be moved to auto-open side panels themselves.
sort of like pining the panels in theater mode but they would dock instead of just being pinned open
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Personally I have no problem with (well-organized) 'clutter' at all.
MusicBee is a desktop application, and most users nowadays have high-res displays, with resolutions only getting higher.
The auto-hide suggestions seem fine, but I hope they will be optional, and development to get MusicBee make better use of the available desktop space will also continue.
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MusicBee is a desktop application, and most users nowadays have high-res displays, with resolutions only getting higher.
I think this is over-generalizing. I have a 13.1" monitor on a laptop that will probably need replacing in the next year or two, and I have no desire to go bigger because that means going heavier. In fact, I may look into something that doubles as a tablet.
To answer Steven, I think I will have to see it in action before I can offer much input.
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MusicBee is a desktop application, and most users nowadays have high-res displays, with resolutions only getting higher.
I think this is over-generalizing. I have a 13.1" monitor on a laptop that will probably need replacing in the next year or two, and I have no desire to go bigger because that means going heavier. In fact, I may look into something that doubles as a tablet.
To answer Steven, I think I will have to see it in action before I can offer much input.
Good points, but your next 13" will definitely have a higher resolution than your current.
I mostly appreciate MusicBee as a full grown software application, not just a trendy 'App' which also has to run on Android or smartphones.
If Steven is going to be aiming more at tablet (touch) use, I am only voicing I hope that that won't go at the cost of desktop users with enough 'desktop estate' who like to have the best possible overview on relevant options.
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MusicBee is a desktop application, and most users nowadays have high-res displays, with resolutions only getting higher.
I think this is over-generalizing. I have a 13.1" monitor on a laptop that will probably need replacing in the next year or two, and I have no desire to go bigger because that means going heavier. In fact, I may look into something that doubles as a tablet.
To answer Steven, I think I will have to see it in action before I can offer much input.
I seriously doubt that Steven will go that route. I think the (optional) bit in the thread title is enough evidence of that.
Good points, but your next 13" will definitely have a higher resolution than your current.
I mostly appreciate MusicBee as a full grown software application, not just a trendy 'App' which also has to run on Android or smartphones.
If Steven is going to be aiming more at tablet (touch) use, I am only voicing I hope that that won't go at the cost of desktop users with enough 'desktop estate' who like to have the best possible overview on relevant options.
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I would definitely be interested to see this idea materialize as long as it's just optional, as stated. I strongly agree with redwing that it would be great if each of the changes could be disabled/enabled separately.
- the header bar with the back/ forward buttons, location bar and panel layout button to not display. For the search box it could go into the caption bar. Not sure about any custom toolbar buttons
I overall like this change since that bar is just taking unnecessary space most of the time, if you are not using custom buttons that is. I would appreciate though if the back/forward buttons made it to the caption bar as well, as I find them quite useful for navigation.
- the Now Playing header with the total playlist duration to not display
Good change as the bar seems redundant, for the purpose it serves it just takes unnecessary space. If you can come up with a "clever" way to preserve it's functionality (to display the duration) in a not so immediately visible way it would be a plus (unless someone can point out an already possible method)
- the bottom bar with the open/close buttons and the file summary stats to not display. The operation for opening/closing the panels would need to be done via a menu
I find that selecting files and instantly knowing the duration, size etc of the selection is quite useful. Maybe show this info only when a selection is made? Hm, I'm not sure what the actual implementation should look like though
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i'm just playing around with things and havent really looked at the original proposal but i was wondering what people thought of this layout to make things a bit more logical and less wasteful of space:
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/forum/PossibleLayout.png)
the header bar is narrower and spans the entire application
the tabs are in the header bar (perhaps vertical and in the caption bar would no longer be supported
no location bar
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the header bar is narrower and spans the entire application
This has always struck me as possibly the most illogical thing in MB at present. Definitely in favour of the header bar being across the whole app. I often find my mouse naturally moving toward top left in search of the back button only for it to be several inches to the right.
the tabs are in the header bar (perhaps vertical and in the caption bar would no longer be supported
never use vertical tabs so would not miss this. always use tabs in the caption bar so would like to try out having them in the header bar before making the switch. i can see the logic but am really not sure about this one. might feel like a step backward.
no location bar
Absolutely fine with this. Personally have never used the location bar and for me it has always felt superfluous.
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the header bar is narrower and spans the entire application
+1
the tabs are in the header bar (perhaps vertical and in the caption bar would no longer be supported
no location bar
Personally I don't use location bar, but I know some people use it. And I am a big fan of tabs in caption bar. So I'd suggest give tabs in caption bar as another option for people who need location bar or prefer it to tabs in header bar.
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I find the exclusion of the location bar a good step forward to making the interface seem more unified. But in my opinion it's a shame how the whole caption bar space goes to waste if the tabs are no longer to be allowed there.
More on the removal of the location bar, since browsing the web is a secondary feature in MusicBee, I think a simple hotkey to bring up a location bar to input a url would be more than enough. Something like the following found in the old Opera browser when in full screen mode:
(http://i.imgur.com/YvAz1m6l.jpg)
With these changes I would not mind having the proposed concept as the default user interface. With that being said, even if the location bar was not to be removed I still think that it would look better than the current interface with the change to the header bar spanning the whole interface.
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i'm just playing around with things and havent really looked at the original proposal but i was wondering what people thought of this layout to make things a bit more logical and less wasteful of space:
the header bar is narrower and spans the entire application
the tabs are in the header bar (perhaps vertical and in the caption bar would no longer be supported
no location bar
My initial reaction is that it actually seems more wasteful of space: it reduces the vertical space of the left navigator without adding space for other elements, and for those who don't use multiple tabs it leaves a lot of unused space.
Personally, I would prefer to see the tabs moved to the caption bar a la Firefox, etc. If the navigation buttons and layout button were moved INto the left panel, leaving more vertical room for the main panel, that would be worth the loss of space in the left panel, IMO. Maybe the search box could work more like it does for Library Explorer and the Now Playing List, popping up when needed but easily dismissed.
Regarding the original proposal, I would hate to lose the status bar. I use it all the time to check how many files I have selected or the status of a sync, etc. Unless that information was shown elsewhere, such as in the caption bar.
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the header bar ... spans the entire application
+1 if it includes moving the RH panel underneath the header, to match the LH side
no location bar
+1
loss of vertical/caption bar tabs
-1
loss of custom toolbar buttons/icons
-1
As it's only an optional view, it doesn't really matter that much. It just would be a view I probably wouldn't use (no matter how much I want to hide the location bar).
But it would be disappointing to see these great options hidden away if the proposed simplified layout became the default view.
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Upon reading the reactions from just a small number of users, it strikes me that there are some confusions regarding what would be optional and not. As far as I understand, while hiding header bar & status bar in the first post was suggested as an optional layout, the second proposal was discussing possibly non-optional layout (that's why I requested the option of tabs in caption bar). Of course, things are still under discussion, but it would lead to more constructive discussion to make it clear about what's optional and not when proposed.
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loss of vertical/caption bar tabs
-1
loss of custom toolbar buttons/icons
-1
you wouldnt loose the custom toolbar - there is plenty of space for that in the proposal
if the tabs were in the caption bar or vertical, there would be a large blank space where the tabs in the screenshot are
i havent decided anything and am just experimenting
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Here's an idea.
(http://i.imgur.com/w34a4cE.png)
- Combine location bar and search box into one like Chrome
- Tabs starting next to search box like Internet Explorer
- The width of each tab is shorter than now
- Now playing header is gone
- With an option of "tabs in caption bar" selected, only tabs are moving to caption bar
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This is my idea... move the "configure layout" drop down menu icon to the main panel "header bar" next to the zoom settings.
Move the "search bar" to the "caption bar", displayed when pressing the menu button, similar to the Windows start menu.
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i like redwings suggestion for the search box being used also for the location bar. Here is how i am thinking the 3 tab bar layouts would work.
However i dont know how well the bottom two layouts will work with some skins (no existing setting for the icon colours in the caption bar) or for unskinned caption bars. In all cases custom icons would be displayed by the panel layout button as now. Additionally the bottom 2 layouts dont show the playlist duration.
For the status bar i am thinking of leaving it but only showing the buttons when the mouse passes over the status bar - the text would always display
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/forum/PossibleLayout2.png)
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I really like these! I'd definitely use the second one.
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a problem is going to be that all the 3 layouts above are using tabs or icons on a new background and for some of the skins that is not going to work well.
So perhaps i will leave things are they are now but if the skin has an indicator it supports the new layouts then the new layout would be used.
The only thing then would be its becoming a bit overwhelming supporting all the combinations of layouts, so i might only add the new support for the 2nd layout.
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Really like the 2nd one as well. I think though that the button that changes views should be static on the right, meaning it should not keep getting "pushed" as more tabs are added.
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I look forward to trying this out.
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a problem is going to be that all the 3 layouts above are using tabs or icons on a new background and for some of the skins that is not going to work well.
I think it may be a necessary evil to retire skins that aren't currently maintained, when backwards compatibility with all skins becomes an obstacle to making significant and otherwise positive changes. If there are skins that are especially popular which wouldn't work with a new layout, perhaps some of the current skins authors could adopt them.
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Some more suggestions when applied to tabs in caption bar layout:
(http://i.imgur.com/pZ7nQB5.png)
- Back/forward buttons on the leftmost position to be consistent
- Current location is displayed in search box
- Refresh button is always visible
- Chrome-like menu icon on the rightmost position replaces MB menu button
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Some more suggestions when applied to tabs in caption bar layout:
- Back/forward buttons on the leftmost position to be consistent
- Current location is displayed in search box
- Refresh button is always visible
- Chrome-like menu icon on the rightmost position replaces MB menu button
I think it's fine to leave the menu on the left, but maybe reduce it to just the bee?
Refresh button +1. This is totally unrelated to the proposed changes, though. I just find that I click too quickly and end up activating the address bar rather than refreshing as desire.
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Some more suggestions when applied to tabs in caption bar layout:
(http://i.imgur.com/pZ7nQB5.png)
- Back/forward buttons on the leftmost position to be consistent +1
- Current location is displayed in search box +1
- Refresh button is always visible -1 How often does MB really need refreshing?
- Chrome-like menu icon on the rightmost position replaces MB menu button +1 Great idea
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just regarding the refresh button, you can already set up a custom tool button for that if its something you use a lot. I agree that the current implementation is not ideal
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just regarding the refresh button, you can already set up a custom tool button for that if its something you use a lot. I agree that the current implementation is not ideal
That's a good point. Totally random thought, but what if the refresh button were turned into a custom button that was already active at installation, sort of like the sort artist custom tags? That would serve to draw attention to the feature, but allow it to be gotten rid of if not wanted.
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For the status bar i am thinking of leaving it but only showing the buttons when the mouse passes over the status bar - the text would always display
That would just make the buttons harder to discover for new users. Wouldn't it be better to remove the status bar and display the text over the main panel with slight transparency like so
(http://i.imgur.com/pl4TyCC.png)
Panel visibility could be toggled in the View menu or by hotkeys.
i like redwings suggestion for the search box being used also for the location bar.
And how exactly would that work? BTW is the location bar even used for anything else than entering web addresses?
Regarding the proposed changes in the caption bar & toolbar area I don't think that moving everything to the caption bar is a good idea. That would make for a very cluttered look imo.
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Regarding the proposed changes in the caption bar & toolbar area I don't think that moving everything to the caption bar is a good idea. That would make for a very cluttered look imo.
Good point. Especially toolbar buttons make it look cluttered. Maybe moving tabs only to caption bar while retaining header bar could be an alternative.
Regarding status bar, I'd just like to have "show/hide status bar" command under View menu to hide it when I don't need it.
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for this layout the panel layout button and any custom buttons would not display in the caption bar. For MB to use the new layout, the skin would need to set a flag because of new colouring required. The vertical tabs layout would keep using the existing layout because it doesnt really fit in with the proposed changes. Skins that dont support the new layout would also keep using the existing layout.
I might get rid of the "Now Playing" bar in the first layout.
The Refresh button would need to be added as a custom tool button if its important to you but would get shown in the search box as in IE when vising web pages.
The search box doubles as a location bar in that if you entered "://" or ":\" in the text it would tell MB to open a web page or folder location
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/forum/PossibleLayout3.png)
and for how it looks with the "Now Playing" header removed:
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/forum/PossibleLayout4.png)
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I might get rid of the "Now Playing" bar in the first layout.
Personally I think the Now Playing bar makes the overall layout look more uniform, and I find the playlist duration display helpful.
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Personally I think the Now Playing bar makes the overall layout look more uniform, and I find the playlist duration display helpful.
yes i agree - i think quite a few people would not like to loose the playlist duration and it also helps new users who dont know what the right panel list is. I am going to leave it in for both, and that way everything is consistent where only the tabs/ search box and navigation controls move to the caption bar for the 2nd. I will make the main panel and now playing header bar a bit narrower in height though
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I might get rid of the "Now Playing" bar in the first layout.
Can't the "Now Playing" header be dropped down so that it's aligned with "Library - MusicBee" header?
i.e. The RH panel docks under the Location Bar - the same as the LH navigator panel does.
Layout icon moves to far right of Location bar in first example
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for this layout the panel layout button and any custom buttons would not display in the caption bar. For MB to use the new layout, the skin would need to set a flag because of new colouring required. The vertical tabs layout would keep using the existing layout because it doesnt really fit in with the proposed changes. Skins that dont support the new layout would also keep using the existing layout...
So how is this proposed layout better than the current one?
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this is what i am planning on going with:
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/forum/PossibleLayout5.png)
i believe it improves the current layout as follows:
- remove location bar which for the bulk of the use cases is not really needed and just duplicating information thats already available and especially when multiple tabs are open
- and because of that the header bar can be made a bit narrower
- back and forward buttons are located nearer the panel they relate to
- less wasteful of space when mutiple tabs are open when they are not docked in the caption bar
as mentioned this layout will only be used when the skin indicates it supports the new layout
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Overall it looks fine to me. Though I disagree on some details, I guess that's not that important at this stage.
But one thing I'd like to ask is to offer the option of "Hide right sidebar header":
- Now left sidebar is located under the header bar, which is an improvement. But not for right sidebar. To me, that's inconsistency.
- If the right sidebar header is hidden and the header bar of main panel spans across the entire screen, it will provide more visual space.
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this is what i am planning on going with:
So i guess the top image is for tabs in header bar and the bottom on is for tabs in caption bar variants of this new layout, correct?
Why are the back/forward buttons and search box moved to the caption bar with the tabs, can't they stay in the header bar?
If the skin supports this layout will it be used exclusively or will there be options to choose the old layouts?
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@mikebo, please make the time to read the thread as most of your questions have already been discussed
as to the back/forward buttons and search box, yes they could go into the main panel bar for the 2nd layout and i might still do that - especially as there would otherwise be a large gap.
but because the search box also serves as a location entry box it makes sense to have it on the left side of the panel
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@Steven: Optional, yes, it's in the title, sorry. But are these different layout options really necessary. With the current layout for example there are options for vertical tabs and tabs in caption bar to save vertical space that is lost with horizontal tab bar. In this new layout tabs are moved in the header bar so would there still be need for other tab placement options?
And how will people who haven't read this thread know that the search box doubles as location entry box?
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here is my take on this proposal
(http://i.imgur.com/c1pb1fzl.png) (http://imgur.com/c1pb1fz.png)
- hidden status bar (toggled in View menu) OR removed status bar (with a semi-transparent file info as proposed here (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=13082.msg79137#msg79137))
- location entry box removed (URLs can be entered through File > Open File or URL)
- search box removed. (search is a separate node)
- header bar can also be hidden (for people who don't use tabs and can do without back/forward buttons. Configure layout button menu accessible through View menu)
with player on top
(http://i.imgur.com/LKfyjx4l.png) (http://imgur.com/LKfyjx4.png)
Search view
(http://i.imgur.com/HAyvWoHl.png) (http://imgur.com/HAyvWoH.png)
for the mockup i simply moved the search box into the search results view, but with this extra space we could do this even better with search filters easily accessible. It's worth pointing out that performing a search would still require only one click, as the search box would already be focused when opening search view.
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I like your mock up, mikebo, but what about the ability to search within a particular node or playlist?
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Good question. Maybe Ctrl+F (which is used in web browsers to find text on current web page, so it would be familiar) could open the search bar from the search view mockup on any current node and let you perform a search in that node.
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here is my take on this proposal
The options of hiding header/status bar (and even caption bar) were already suggested. The only unique point in your proposal is remove location bar and hide search box, but I don't see how it would work better than having the both in one box as in Steven's final mockup.
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as to the back/forward buttons and search box, yes they could go into the main panel bar for the 2nd layout and i might still do that
+1
Here is my proposal with several optional layouts:
(http://i.imgur.com/KCadQIx.png)
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Having used MB for some time, I would like to ask if this new optional layout, is optional?
Meaning will I be able to retain MB's current layout, after the introduction of this new
"simplified" layout?
Reason, I favour none of the proposed new layout's for MB, so far... as all of them are bug
ugly an intrusive.
My main objection, being the way the left panel is messed by having for example the search
buttons stuck across the top of it.
Make changes to the centre and right panels, if you have to, but leave the left side
as it is (from top to bottom).
Ulf
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here is my take on this proposal
The options of hiding header/status bar (and even caption bar) were already suggested. The only unique point in your proposal is remove location bar and hide search box, but I don't see how it would work better than having the both in one box as in Steven's final mockup.
Well it's not just hiding the search box, it's just been moved to a different place. This gives more space to tabs and user buttons, and people who don't use these features, can hide the header bar and still have access to search, which is imo essential.
Unification of search box and location box is an interesting idea, but so far no explanation was given as to how the user will know that functionality is there.
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i'm not really happy with the direction of the feedback on this topic and its probably a good indicator that only minimal changes should be made - seeing other applications change their interface, time and again it only leads to abusive comments and negativity (i am definitely not saying thats the case here on this forum but just what is likely to happen if it were released).
I think the biggest benefit to be gained is when the multiple tabs are horizontal in the main panel (wasteful of space) and removal of the location bar (duplicating information). So probably the only thing i will do is remove the location bar so its entered in the search box for the cases where you need to enter a web-link and secondly for the default layout show a single tab in place of the location bar (layout 1 without extending the main panel bar across the left side).
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layout 1 without extending the main panel bar across the left side
The feedback was rather positive on that.
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I believe this new layout is a step in the right direction.
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layout 1 without extending the main panel bar across the left side
The feedback was rather positive on that.
I'm not sure which way you mean, but either way it was mixed. Some would prefer it extend to the left side, others don't want to lose the vertical space for the sidebar.
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@scampbll: I meant most people responded positively to extending the header bar over the left panel, except for you and Ulf if i didn't miss anyone.
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I'm a bit surprised that extending the header bar over the left panel, among all things, started picking up negative reactions. This change has been requested by many users. I think the following quote by lnminente summarizes the case well.
Well, sad to say but its the option i would like most :/ It's not only space in a bar, i see it hierarchycally more important, it has the search bar, command buttons, address box to know if you are browsing an album, with filters or not, or a folder in your computer, and that needs space. Also would give you the efficency of a fast click in the back button because you always will know exactly where it is. I see all that has a lot more importance than an entry easily scrollable with the wheel mouse at side panels. Also see it as the menu button, it has to be always there, not moving, for hierarchy and for efficency too.
And for consistency with the most used apps with tabs:
Firefox:
(http://s11.postimage.org/m9iz9uj4j/firefox_panel_lateral_2.png)
Chrome:
(http://s7.postimage.org/6epuhbt17/chrome.png)
Again Firefox, being this capture from a library browser having direct relation with MB:
(http://s7.postimage.org/ld89br83f/firefox_library.png)
Also windows explorer has the back button at a fixed place and later is the side panel:
(http://s4.postimage.org/6954mqswd/explorer.png)
Of course, everyone has the right to say. And this is not about who's right and who's wrong.
But the fact is whatever change (even no change) is made it won't satisfy everyone. So I'm for keeping up this discussion ultimately for some real changes.
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Why is it necessary to make MB look an function like a browser or the OS file explorer, by intruding
into and removing space from the left panel, to have this functionallity, when it is already exists
in the centre panel?
Surely the overall layout can be simplified, improved, without messing with the inntutive functionallity
of the left panel.
Ulf
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I mean, I'm not going to get bent out of shape if this change is made. But I agree with Ulf that how other programs do things is not a persuasive argument. I also get why some people would prefer it to change.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that moving the navigation buttons to the outside edge of the window puts them even closer to player controls if the player is at the top, which kind of invites accidental clicks.
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Why is it necessary to make MB look an function like a browser or the OS file explorer, by intruding
into and removing space from the left panel, to have this functionallity, when it is already exists
in the centre panel?
I don't think it's necessary, but ui that is consistent with other widely used programs will be more familiar and easier to navigate. Though in this particular case i don't think either layout will be confusing just because the header bar extends over the panel or not.
Surely the overall layout can be simplified, improved, without messing with the inntutive functionallity
of the left panel.
How would this take anything away from the "inntutive functionallity" of the left panel?
While i was against extending the header bar in the past, now with tabs taking place of location entry box there is a good reason to make some more room horizontally, while sacrificing a little space of the left panel.
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This is clearly starting to become a divisive topic so I don't blame Steven if he wants to play it safe.
I do have to say though, that personally I fall heavily in favour of of extending the header bar to over the left panel. I use MB by keeping several tabs open at all times. Some of these have the left panel collapsed, and some expanded, depending on the purpose of that tab. I have always found it to be one of the strangest and most frustrating quirks of MB that as I switch between tabs, the back/forward buttons jump left and right. It just isn't logical and it certainly isn't intuitive. I still find this catching me out (with my mouse wandering to the incorrect location) even after years of daily MB use.
The feedback on this particular part of the proposed changes DID start positively and, to be honest, I do not understand how the loss of a few mm of vertical space for the left panel could even be considered an issue.
Doing things the way other programs do it may not be an argument in and of itself, but surely it is indicative that many others have thought through similar design problems and come out with the same solution. UI elements/buttons that do not remain in a consistent location simply make no sense. It is a shame that this thread has descended into so much negativity and resistance to change. Of course not every solution will work for every person, Steven has repeatedly stated that these options would be just that, options. This flexibility is something he has somehow managed to keep with almost every reworking of key aspects of the program in the past. Yes, it has led to a large amount of options that may not be apparent out of the box, but that core usability has always remained, all the while adding more and more excellent features for us hardcore users and settings tweakers. All of these changes have been guided by a forum that fostered and encouraged change with helpful and thoughtful feedback. Lets not lose that.
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I feel strongly about vertical space because I have a very small amount of it. I haven't meant any of my comments to be particularly negative. I'm looking forward to trying this change out. This discussion just reflects the differences in how we're all used to using the program.
I particularly like the proposal of putting all the tabs and toolbar elements in the caption bar. Someone said they thought it looked crowded, but if you want to talk about how other programs are doing things, they're putting tabs in the caption bar. That's what would create more space on my screen.
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Unification of search box and location box is an interesting idea, but so far no explanation was given as to how the user will know that functionality is there.
Perhaps moving the magnifying glass icon to the right could tell the user that the box is capable of more than searching.
(http://i.imgur.com/aQPzXD2.png)
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I do have to say though, that personally I fall heavily in favour of of extending the header bar to over the left panel. I use MB by keeping several tabs open at all times. Some of these have the left panel collapsed, and some expanded, depending on the purpose of that tab. I have always found it to be one of the strangest and most frustrating quirks of MB that as I switch between tabs, the back/forward buttons jump left and right. It just isn't logical and it certainly isn't intuitive. I still find this catching me out (with my mouse wandering to the incorrect location) even after years of daily MB use.
This is a very interesting observation and something I wasn't aware of. This is especially bad if you use anything else than 'Tabs in caption bar' and start switching tabs with different states of left panel. A strong reason to reconsider the header bar layout.
This is clearly starting to become a divisive topic so I don't blame Steven if he wants to play it safe.
Steven has repeatedly stated that these options would be just that, options. This flexibility is something he has somehow managed to keep with almost every reworking of key aspects of the program in the past. Yes, it has led to a large amount of options that may not be apparent out of the box, but that core usability has always remained, all the while adding more and more excellent features for us hardcore users and settings tweakers.
I've recently started having some doubts as to whether this is the best approach. Feels to me like almost every new idea becomes yet another option instead of replacing old solutions. This is good for old users of MB as we can mostly stick with options we are used to, but at the same time increases the already overwhelming amount of settings that new users will have to face. This is the case with "modern" and "classic" variants of different players.
Another problem for me is that every little detail has to have a setting to satisfy everyone wishes and a prime example of that is the setting page for modern compact player (http://i.imgur.com/jOTfN4N.png) - classic design by committee.
I feel strongly about vertical space because I have a very small amount of it. I haven't meant any of my comments to be particularly negative. I'm looking forward to trying this change out. This discussion just reflects the differences in how we're all used to using the program.
I particularly like the proposal of putting all the tabs and toolbar elements in the caption bar. Someone said they thought it looked crowded, but if you want to talk about how other programs are doing things, they're putting tabs in the caption bar. That's what would create more space on my screen.
I said that. I think the search box looks especially bad in the caption bar. That's why I proposed to make search a separate node. If you don't mind command buttons you can add them, if you don't want them in the caption bar you won't, that's fine. But I'm not against the general idea, just the specifics.
According to this statistic (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_display.asp) nearly a third of internet users have 1366x768 displays so it is wise to have an option to fully integrate the header bar and caption bar. Option to hide the status bar wouldn't hurt either.
This is how that would look in my imaginary ideal world:
1. Default layout:
(http://i.imgur.com/3VKna17.png) (http://imgur.com/3VKna17)
2. Combined caption and header bars layout:
(http://i.imgur.com/gQBMfUy.png) (http://imgur.com/gQBMfUy)
The only problem with tabs in caption bar is they look shit when you move the player controls up top, which end up dividing the tabs form main panel. To avoid that player controls could be integrated into the caption bar when up top. Saves space and looks good imo.
3. Player integated with caption bar:
(http://i.imgur.com/h0jNvKJ.png) (http://imgur.com/h0jNvKJ)
The setting for vertical/hoizontal/caption tabs could be removed. Instead there would only be an option to combine the header and caption bars.
Setting for menu placement could also be removed.
Perhaps moving the magnifying glass icon to the right could tell the user that the box is capable of more than searching.
Why not just use the 'Open File or URL' dialog from the File menu?
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I've recently started having some doubts as to whether this is the best approach. Feels to me like almost every new idea becomes yet another option instead of replacing old solutions. This is good for old users of MB as we can mostly stick with options we are used to, but at the same time increases the already overwhelming amount of settings that new users will have to face. This is the case with "modern" and "classic" variants of different players.
Another problem for me is that every little detail has to have a setting to satisfy everyone wishes and a prime example of that is the setting page for modern compact player (http://i.imgur.com/jOTfN4N.png) - classic design by committee.
^^^ This, 100%. As Steven says, there's always backlash when something changes. I can grouse as well as anybody when things aren't the way I want them, but in the long run it seems like a lot more potential for bugs and a lot more work overall maintaining so many different settings. For settings which truly add different functionality, I can see it being worth the effort, but for things like skins and layouts, I think sometimes the older options need to just go by the wayside. But it's Steven's time and Steven's program, so our opinions are just that. :)
I think the search box looks especially bad in the caption bar. That's why I proposed to make search a separate node. If you don't mind command buttons you can add them, if you don't want them in the caption bar you won't, that's fine. But I'm not against the general idea, just the specifics.
I see what you're saying. What about instead of a search box or a permanent search node, having just the search button that would pop up the search box as needed, with a click or a hotkey.
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I see what you're saying. What about instead of a search box or a permanent search node, having just the search button that would pop up the search box as needed, with a click or a hotkey.
Still fighting for that precious left panel real estate :)
But seriously that's also an elegant alternative. Though having a separate search node would give as some more space and an opportunity to design a better search ui.
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Still fighting for that precious left panel real estate :)
But seriously that's also an elegant alternative. Though having a separate search node would give as some more space and an opportunity to design a better search ui.
Ha! :) No, my objection to the Search node is only what I said before, that it makes it more complicated to search a specific node. It seems better to have a single solution for all nodes. The only thing I would improve about the search UI as-is would be to make it work more consistently with the navigation buttons.
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I particularly like the proposal of putting all the tabs and toolbar elements in the caption bar. Someone said they thought it looked crowded, but if you want to talk about how other programs are doing things, they're putting tabs in the caption bar. That's what would create more space on my screen.
I don't know what other programs you're talking about, but don't they still retain header bar?
Anyway here's my revised proposal of tabs in caption bar without header bar layout.
(http://i.imgur.com/EaV60Ef.png)
As you can see toolbar buttons can be hidden by clicking a small icon. As I stated before, MB menu button is replaced by Chrome-like menu icon on the right to put back/forward buttons on the leftmost position for consistency. Also it doesn't take any more space in left sidebar that some people seem to feel strongly about.
Perhaps moving the magnifying glass icon to the right could tell the user that the box is capable of more than searching.
Why not just use the 'Open File or URL' dialog from the File menu?
You can use that. But having the permanent box will certainly be more intuitive for new users and offer more conveniences when opening and searching by not obstructing the content of the panel.
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Perhaps moving the magnifying glass icon to the right could tell the user that the box is capable of more than searching.
Why not just use the 'Open File or URL' dialog from the File menu?
You can use that. But having the permanent box will certainly be more intuitive for new users
Except that it won't be because it doesn't say anywhere you can enter a web address there. And i don't see how "moving the magnifying glass icon to the right could tell the user that the box is capable of more than searching".
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Then, what about the current location bar? I never heard people complain about they don't know how to use it.
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Well I don't want to defend the current location bar because it's has own faults, but it doesn't trick you with a magnifying glass icon and won't perform a search when you enter text into it. That helps.
As you can see toolbar buttons can be hidden by clicking a small icon.
I like that
As I stated before, MB menu button is replaced by Chrome-like menu icon on the right to put back/forward buttons on the leftmost position for consistency. Also it doesn't take any more space in left sidebar that some people seem to feel strongly about.
I think that the menu button should be more pronounced. This just looks like another toolbar button and since it is on the right side users might think that the menu is gone before they discover that this little thing is the menu now.
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I am assuming that people are very familiar with using web browsers - Chrome, FF, IE. So I'm fairly certain that people will soon learn what this box is about after some trials. Chrome menu icon is on the same vein. FF too recently embraced the exactly same UI, and IE also offers some menus with rightmost icon. Of course, my proposal is just a suggestion and open to ideas. Feel free to revise it, if anyone wants to.
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I agree with mikebo that it's not intuitive to put a URL in a search box, even if browsers are doing it that way now. But that's because it's not intuitive to put a URL in a music player at all, IMO. However, it seems like there's a fairly simple solution. The lowlight text that currently says "Search" could say "Search or URL", something in that vein.
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The lowlight text that currently says "Search" could say "Search or URL", something in that vein.
Great idea! That would certainly help!
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However, it seems like there's a fairly simple solution. The lowlight text that currently says "Search" could say "Search or URL", something in that vein.
And then you start typing your URL and it instantly searches for that www song you like so much :)
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Okay, so either there needs to be a search/URL toggle of some kind, or - going back to the button proposal - there could be a search button and a url button, independent of each other.
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if you entered "://" or ":\" in the text it would tell MB to open a web page or folder location
This is what Steven suggested. In addition to that, it could support pressing tab key which toggles to web page, folders, and nothing (tag search).
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I don't understand why you guys keep brainstorming on this URL entry problem like its some essential feature of MB that everyone uses.
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I don't understand why you guys keep brainstorming on this URL entry problem like its some essential feature of MB that everyone uses.
That's exactly what I'd like to ask you :D Why do you keep asking about that minor technical issue?
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I don't understand why you guys keep brainstorming on this URL entry problem like its some essential feature of MB that everyone uses.
*shrug* Honestly, Steven could remove that part of MB and I would probably never even notice, let alone be bothered by it. I use my browser when I want a browser. It just came up in the context of Location Bar functionality.
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If the box defaults to function as search box, then opening URL and folders will be simply "added" features. Nothing to worry about if you don't intend to use the box for other purposes, just like the current location bar.
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I've recently started having some doubts as to whether this is the best approach.
I hear you on this, there is certainly logic in what you say. As an forum member and 'power' user I am obviously biased, but the vast array of options is OK by me.
The only problem with tabs in caption bar is they look shit when you move the player controls up top, which end up dividing the tabs form main panel.
They don't have to...
(http://i.imgur.com/V2Yz7AZ.jpg)
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The only problem with tabs in caption bar is they look shit when you move the player controls up top, which end up dividing the tabs form main panel.
They don't have to...
I meant it's bad that the tabs get separated from the main panel, it's not about blending with player bar
I've made lighter versions of my previous mockups if anybody is wondering how that might look
(http://i.imgur.com/bB7mSbOs.png) (http://imgur.com/bB7mSbO.png) (http://i.imgur.com/QhHQmR4s.png) (http://imgur.com/QhHQmR4.png) (http://i.imgur.com/AXwmCvis.png) (http://imgur.com/AXwmCvi.png)
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May sound surprisinng, but I quite like your first mock-up... in terms of the placement of the back and foward
buttons, being next to the MB button, not under it.
One question, I assume Library Explorer would still be in the left panel, in your layout, correct?
(I tend to use LE it a lot... )
Ulf
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I have pretty much decided now how i want to proceed and its been good with some of the comments to help clarify why things should be done. In all cases (even old skins) the location bar would be removed and replaced by tab(s) or no longer shown when tabs are docked in the caption bar/ vertically
There would be two new layout options:
- "extend header bar into the left panel" - this option is needed for some existing skins which wont work well (eg. midnight). It wont be enabled by default as most people only have one tab open and when not enabled it gives more space to the left navigator. It also works better the option is not enabled for people who have the library explorer maximised. I know some people want the header bar to extend over the Now Playing bar but i am reluctant to do that because the search box and panel layout buttons are no longer aligned to the main panel and i dont think it really adds much value
- "show tabs and controls in the caption bar" - this option maximises the vertical space available. Fairly much like mikebo's example but would include the search box
Ideally i would like to get rid of the vertical tabs option but i know some people will be upset by that. It probably makes most sense if the vertical tabs are displayed on the very left panel rather than in the main panel. But in any case it does leave a large area of blank header panel now the location bar will not be displayed.
For the web browser, i might add a node on the left panel "Web Browser" but in any case when the web browser is open, a sub-panel will display in the main panel so you can enter a url, refresh and bookmark. A link could also be opened in the search box using http:// as the indicator to MB its a web link
@mikebo, your screenshots look great and except for the player in the bar (not rejecting that) i think much of what you have shown can be acheived. I will post some screenshots i already prepared tonight but its not too different from http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=13082.msg79084#msg79084 except for the search box location. I guess whats been partially putting people is the colouring on the default skins isnt as slick as what can be acheived
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I have pretty much decided now how i want to proceed and its been good with some of the comments to help clarify why things should be done. In all cases (even old skins) the location bar would be removed and replaced by tab(s) or no longer shown when tabs are docked in the caption bar/ vertically
I think most people will agree this is an improvement. The location bar took too much space and wasn't very useful. A positive side-effect of this will be that new users will be discouraged from using the awful embedded browser.
There would be two new layout options:
- "extend header bar into the left panel" - this option is needed for some existing skins which wont work well (eg. midnight). It wont be enabled by default as most people only have one tab open and when not enabled it gives more space to the left navigator. It also works better the option is not enabled for people who have the library explorer maximised.
This is unnecessary. I will argue that the header bar should always be extended. First of all extended header takes some 25px off of the left navigator and if that's really a problem there's still the option to combine header bar with caption, people who will need more space for navigator panel, will also need more space for other panels, so they'll probably use that option anyway.
Secondly as SimonBRT reported switching between tabs with different states of navigator panel, will cause the tabs to move away from the mouse pointer. I think this is a serious ui problem that is being underestimated. Extended header solves that.
As for issues with skins i think the interface improvement should have higher priority than skin compatibility and skin developers should be notified of the changes and urged to update their skins.
I know some people want the header bar to extend over the Now Playing bar but i am reluctant to do that because the search box and panel layout buttons are no longer aligned to the main panel and i dont think it really adds much value
i completely agree
- "show tabs and controls in the caption bar" - this option maximises the vertical space available. Fairly much like mikebo's example but would include the search box
So be it. Hopefully you change your mind about the search box in the future ;)
Ideally i would like to get rid of the vertical tabs option but i know some people will be upset by that. It probably makes most sense if the vertical tabs are displayed on the very left panel rather than in the main panel. But in any case it does leave a large area of blank header panel now the location bar will not be displayed.
This again i don't understand. In the past vertical tabs made sense because they freed more vertical space. But now with tabs in header bar or caption bar, they bring absolutely no benefit. And i couldn't say it better: "it does leave a large area of blank header panel now the location bar will not be displayed." Also they are harder to read.
For the web browser, i might add a node on the left panel "Web Browser" but in any case when the web browser is open, a sub-panel will display in the main panel so you can enter a url, refresh and bookmark. A link could also be opened in the search box using http:// as the indicator to MB its a web link
I've said it before and i'll say it again: the embedded web browser is a terrible experience and should be phased out. Making the search box a url entry box is also a very unfortunate idea. It will only benefit people who read this thread, anyone else simply won't know about it. When we discuss changes and new ideas for MusicBee I'd like to see more consideration for new users and making things more intuitive rather than hiding features and adding countless options.
Sorry if i sometimes present my opinions in a somewhat crude manner, but that's really how i feel about certain things and don't expect everybody will agree with me.
I guess whats been partially putting people is the colouring on the default skins isnt as slick as what can be acheived
Maybe it's time for a refresh. I'd be happy to help.
One more question:
Any plans for the status bar?
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I concur with mikebo on almost everything. I don't mind the search box in the caption bar, but still attached to the button idea. It's a minor detail, though.
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The status bar will probably an option to hide it and if hidden the panel flipping can be done from a right click context menu and perhaps the stats could popup when hovering somewhere. I dont like the semi-transparent display idea - it wouldnt work for track details layout for example.
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Ideally i would like to get rid of the vertical tabs option but i know some people will be upset by that. It probably makes most sense if the vertical tabs are displayed on the very left panel rather than in the main panel. But in any case it does leave a large area of blank header panel now the location bar will not be displayed.
This again i don't understand. In the past vertical tabs made sense because they freed more vertical space. But now with tabs in header bar or caption bar, they bring absolutely no benefit. And i couldn't say it better: "it does leave a large area of blank header panel now the location bar will not be displayed." Also they are harder to read.
I disagree with you on this one. The use of vertical tabs, for me, is nothing to do with freeing up vertical space. In fact, extending the header bar across both the left and right sides is a change I've expressed support for several times.
I have the column browser arranged vertically, and the thumbnail browser as well, so, from an ergonomically efficient viewpoint, it only makes sense to have the tabs vertical as well.
And there's the un-scientific bit - I like them. :)
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just for the record, i am going to remove the user initiated web browsing functionality/ mp3 file link scanner. Although it would be possible to incorporate into the new proposals it will just create a bunch of effort to implement just doesnt seem worth it.
The functionality in the Playing Track panel that opens a web link based on the artist or other tags will remain, as will any links in the Now Playing panel that open a web page based on the artist or other tags. Its only the functionality around creating a bookmark and opening a web page in the left navigator that will be removed.
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just for the record, i am going to remove the user initiated web browsing functionality/ mp3 file link scanner. Although it would be possible to incorporate into the new proposals it will just create a bunch of effort to implement just doesnt seem worth it.
The functionality in the Playing Track panel that opens a web link based on the artist or other tags will remain, as will any links in the Now Playing panel that open a web page based on the artist or other tags. Its only the functionality around creating a bookmark and opening a web page in the left navigator that will be removed.
Thumbs up!
I would sill love to see an option to open Now Playing panel links in the users default browser, but that's a separate topic.
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the functionality is mostly done now apart from the status bar. For the status bar, i will admit that when the player is docked down the bottom, it looks much better without the status bar but i just dont think its something other than a few people who would be happy not to see information such as how many files are selected, what action is being executed, total number of files etc.
So as a compromise I am planning to show the status bar in the bottom of the main panel only without the buttons. Possibly i could create an option to show the full status bar but without the buttons, the panels can be flipped using right click/ View/ ...
If the player is not docked in the bottom it would extend across the entire app as now but still without the buttons unless enabled
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/forum/ProposedLayout20.png)
I will make a version available tomorrow or tuesday but comments on the status bar welcome
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I think having the status bar only in the main panel, as shown, is a good compromise.
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So as a compromise I am planning to show the status bar in the bottom of the main panel only without the buttons. Possibly i could create an option to show the full status bar but without the buttons, the panels can be flipped using right click/ View/ ...
For me this would make very little difference, as i only have the left panel open, so the status bar would still mostly be there minus toggle buttons, which i actually find useful
This is what i think would work best:
We add a simple hide/show status bar option. When shown it's just like it is now, no changes here. When hidden the status bar is gone but whenever user selects multiple files or there's some notification the status bar would pop up in the main panel with that information. This way we have more space but still get the information when we need it. Total number of files can be easily checked with simple select all Ctrl+A.
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Don't know whether I'll use this view yet, but please don't remove the status bar! Something I use very frequently.
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this has the support for the new layout:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- for existing skins you should see no difference at all (for now), other than the Panel Layout button menu is enhanced to support more layout handling, and the various right click Configure Layout menus consolidated to the Panel Layout menu
- also note that web browsing is no longer supported, other than when automated links based off tags eg. Wikipedia artist lookup in the Playing Track panel
- the new layout is triggered from a setting in the skin. I have included an updated MusicBee Default skin so you can easily see the layout changes
- there are no new configuration settings - all the existing tab orientation settings are supported
- for skin developers these are the new elements (so far - i will add a couple more)
<element id="UseModernLayout">true</element>
<element id="CaptionBar.HeaderControl.Default" fg="190,190,190" />
<element id="CaptionBar.HeaderControl.Disabled" fg="120,120,120" />
- in summary the layout changes are:
- when tabs are docked in the caption bar, the search box and panel layout/ toolbar buttons are also docked in the header and the Now Playing header doesnt show. No location bar displays. This is to increase the vertical space available
- when tabs are docked horizontally, the tabs now span the left and main panel. No location bar displays
- when tabs are docked vertically the layout is more or less the same as now
- the status bar no longer shows buttons and extends from the left panel into the main panel
- if the player is docked down the bottom, the status bar doesnt show in the right panel
planned to do:
- support separator bars in the tabs bar like in mikebo's screenshots
- remove the buttons in the status bar for the skins not supporting the new layout
- in the artwork layout, fully show the panel configure button wven when the artwork header bar is hidden
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just a few things:
"Playing Track Panel" when set to "Show in a Tab", is not remembered on restart. Have to change to 'bottom pane" and then back to have appear.
Border and colours for caption bar button
(http://i.cubeupload.com/zQNmqe.jpg)
no longer working for older skins. Button has lost curved edge.
As this is no longer an optional change (loss of web browser and direct extraction of mp3 links to "Downloads" in all views) does this mean custom download icons and skin colours can be removed?
FWIW the new horizontal tabs layout looks good. However, the 'tabs in caption bar' (with a few open tabs and several toolbar icons on display), looks really cramped. The lop-sided status bar, when both left and right panels are open, also looks a bit strange.
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Thanks for the update, still playing around with it.
Here is what it looks like for me, in case anyone is interested:
(http://i.imgur.com/uD0HlIzs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/uD0HlIz.jpg)
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Border and colours for caption bar button
(http://i.cubeupload.com/zQNmqe.jpg)
no longer working for older skins. Button has lost curved edge.
The lop-sided status bar, when both left and right panels are open, also looks a bit strange.
Ditto these. There's a weird top border on the button that wasn't there before. Without buttons, the left and right status bars really are wasted space; I still prefer having it in the center panel only. I'd like to keep the button for Playing Track Panel in the bottom panel. It's already optional in the normal layout, so there's no reason to change how it's handled in this layout.
I'd prefer to keep the search box at the right in the caption bar, partly because without it my toolbar buttons, which exist because I use them a lot, are kind of out of the way.
Otherwise, I'm liking it so far. Fiddling with the Mellon Remixed skin to see what it can do.
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Thanks for the update, still playing around with it.
Here is what it looks like for me, in case anyone is interested:
Ah, I see that the right hand status bar goes away if you have the player at the bottom. If nothing else, I would like for it to be gone when the player is in the right sidebar, too.
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- Configure Layout right-click menu for the player bar is gone.
- To avoid a cluttered look of tabs in caption bar layout, consider to add a small button to hide toolbar buttons or make the toolbar buttons visible only when the mouse is over the caption bar.
- Here's my proposal of the status bar. In short, remove it from the left sidebar too and incorporate it into the main panel.
(http://i.imgur.com/qZsO8wp.png)
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I've noticed that this update drastically slows down MusicBee when starting up.
Just to be sure, I reverted back to the previous version to test it and do a comparison.
Before the update it launches within 2 seconds, after the update, it takes about 10 seconds.
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I've noticed that this update drastically slows down MusicBee when starting up.
Just to be sure, I reverted back to the previous version to test it and do a comparison.
Before the update it launches within 2 seconds, after the update, it takes about 10 seconds.
I don't see any differences. Probably it's some of your settings that cause it.
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I've noticed that this update drastically slows down MusicBee when starting up.
Just to be sure, I reverted back to the previous version to test it and do a comparison.
Before the update it launches within 2 seconds, after the update, it takes about 10 seconds.
I don't see any differences. Probably it's some of your settings that cause it.
Well I didn't do anything differently.
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- Configure Layout right-click menu for the player bar is gone.
OK, I found out the menu is now under Configure Layout button. Personally I don't like this incorporation of all layout menus under one button. Would be great if right-click menus are available with each panel or bar regardless of the button.
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Well I didn't do anything differently.
Try with no settings file.
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I've noticed that this update drastically slows down MusicBee when starting up.
Just to be sure, I reverted back to the previous version to test it and do a comparison.
Before the update it launches within 2 seconds, after the update, it takes about 10 seconds.
I don't notice a longer time either, but then it's always taken mine a little longer to reboot.
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or make the toolbar buttons visible only when the mouse is over the caption bar.
Not this, please. I don't mind a show/hide option, but I had enough trouble using the refresh button when it needed a mouseover.
In short, remove it from the left sidebar too and incorporate it into the main panel.
Yes, this is what I was saying, too. It looks better even when the player's not at the bottom.
Added: Whoa, I just noticed the awesome mouseover highlight on toolbar buttons in the caption bar. VERY NICE. :)
And now that I know where they are, I'm glad to have the layout controls for the player, at least, all in a consistent place. I feel like sidebar controls could still be associated with the sidebars. I'd particularly like a one-click way to show/hide Library Explorer.
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The status bar in the main panel only doesnt look right if you have the library explorer or now playing list docked in the left panel. The reason i didnt want to extend the status bar across the entire panel was because all the empty space because there are no buttons there any more. But maybe the status bar would look better across the whole window if the file summary text was centered with any activity text on the left.
For the toolbar in the caption bar - i personally dont like the panel layout and toolbar buttons there either. What do people think of putting it in the status bar, with the status bar extending across the whole panel in that case leaving just the panel layout button in the caption bar and maybe moving that button closer to the right side or maybe just to the right of the tab add button?
For a quick way to open/close the library explorer or Playing Track panel when docked on the bottom i could add hotkey/ command button support if its not already the case.
I appreciate that having right click/ Configure Layout in each of the panels is convienient when you are used to doing it that way. However i just dont think most people will be continually tweaking the configuration and its better to have the configuration more centralised in one place, especially for new users. I am actually tempted to go further and have the panel layout only for hiding/ showing panels and the configuration details only done from the Layout(1) and (2) preferences.
Please keep in mind with all this is there are a lot of different configurations and i am trying to find the approaches that work best with various configs
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Many thanks, Steven.
Not a big change to the layout, but a good one. I like it...
Been using it this morning.
Skin: DarkORANGE-Metro
Ulf
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- Regarding the status bar, I'm still for displaying it only at the bottom of the main panel. All activity text (including those from left sidebar) can be displayed on the left, file summary text on the right. As you said, no reason to show it under both siderbars with no buttons on it.
- We had no user so far asking about how to configure the player bar, but I expect lots of new users asking such a question with this new layout. In fact, people have kept asking about how to change views or open playing track panel in tab, failing to find out that far-from-intuitive Configure Layout button. Say, you're trying to hide love icon from the player bar, then why do you have to move the mouse from the player bar to the Configure Layout button instead of using one-click context menu? This already happened with tabs bar configuration before. Why do we have to locate the button and move the mouse to it instead of right-clicking on tabs when we want to change the tabs layout? And now you're trying to remove Configure panel setting menu (from another Configure Layout button) as well? What's the benefit?
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i'm probably going to make Configure Layout accessible from particular panels as it was before and remove the config options from the Panel Layout button, where the Panel Layout button just controls the visibility and docking of the panels. I think the Panel Layout button is quite obvious and many applications have the same - no matter what you do there will always be some people who struggle.
As to moving the toolbar and perhaps the Panel Layout button to the status bar when tabs and the search box are docked in the caption bar, i will probably do that but would like some comments from people who might use this layout. In the mode the status bar would extend across the entire application
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As to moving the toolbar and perhaps the Panel Layout button to the status bar when tabs and the search box are docked in the caption bar, i will probably do that but would like some comments from people who might use this layout. In the mode the status bar would extend across the entire application
I would prefer keeping the toolbar buttons where they are now to having a full screen status bar. I think restricting the status bar to the main panel makes the most sense both aesthetically and programmatically. As mentioned, I'd prefer having the search box on the right in the caption bar, but I can live with it as it is.
Regarding the layout options, I'm not too particular, but I would prefer not having all the layout options in every menu in the left panel - rather just when you click open space that's not being used by playlists, nodes, etc.
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"Playing Track Panel" when set to "Show in a Tab", is not remembered on restart. Have to change to 'bottom pane" and then back to have appear.
Border and colours for caption bar button
...
no longer working for older skins. Button has lost curved edge.
The playing track panel bug is fixed for the next update. The button has been made square intentionally as i think it works better with the new tabs and i didnt want to maintain 2 formats for the button. I have removed the top line in the button as it doesnt work well with some skins
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I would prefer keeping the toolbar buttons where they are now to having a full screen status bar. I think restricting the status bar to the main panel makes the most sense both aesthetically and programmatically. As mentioned, I'd prefer having the search box on the right in the caption bar, but I can live with it as it is.
but people have been complaining it makes the caption bar too crampt/ busy and thats how i feel about it as well - it just looks so much better without the buttons there. The search button on the left of the tabs means it stays in the same place when adding tabs - if it was put at the far right then its not aligned with the main panel and looks out of place. I've given the reason for the status bar not being in the main panel only - it will only work well with some configs. Playing around now i think with the status bar across the full window with summary text centered looks quite good so i will try this.
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but people have been complaining it makes the caption bar too crampt/ busy and thats how i feel about it as well - it just looks so much better without the buttons there. The search button on the left of the tabs means it stays in the same place when adding tabs - if it was put at the far right then its not aligned with the main panel and looks out of place. I've given the reason for the status bar not being in the main panel only - it will only work well with some configs. Playing around now i think with the status bar across the full window with summary text centered looks quite good so i will try this.
Okay, I'll withhold judgement til I see it in action. :) I agree that the location of the search box should be fixed and aligned with the main panel. That's my problem with the buttons as well, so maybe I will like this solution better once I see it in action.
The playing track panel bug is fixed for the next update. The button has been made square intentionally as i think it works better with the new tabs and i didnt want to maintain 2 formats for the button. I have removed the top line in the button as it doesnt work well with some skins
What about making the button mirror the tabs? I mean, give it the exact same profile, only flipped. That could look really good with the tabs in the caption bar.
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i dont think its going work with putting the tool bar into the status bar due to height constraints/ proportional size of the icons to the bar.
I am going to put the buttons to the right of + tab button like in the original proposal and see what people think. I appreicate it will mean the panel layout button moves to the right as more tabs are added but it looks less cluttered and more in alignment with the main panel
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- fixes the "Playing Track Panel" not reloading and the menu button glitch
- Status bar now extends across the entire window and in addition to the file summary, it now shows the playlist duration on the right if the now playing panel is docked on the right
- When tabs are docked in the caption bar the panel layout button and toolbar buttons display immediately to the right of the tabs
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This is definitely an improvement! I like the new MusicBee button, and the position of the toolbar buttons. Putting the layout button on the left is a good idea.
All in all, I think it would be better to keep the border between different pieces of the status bar (left sidebar/right sidebar) rather than have it solid all the way across.
One small bug: each time I restart, the toolbar buttons go back to the far right until I add or remove a tab.
Oh, a second one: right clicking on the buttons in the caption bar has the same effect as left clicking. There's no way to reach the dialog to add/remove buttons.
And finally a skinning request: would like to be able to put a border on the menu button to match the tabs.
Edit: I see now that the CD ripping notification, etc, has been moved to the far left. I would much rather this info stay in the main panel. There has never been a space problem with that stuff on my screen, so it's unlikely there has on anyone else's.
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- some more tweaks to the status bar handling
- the active tab when docked in the header bar should no longer show a bottom border line
- right click menus now allow panel customisation (as was the case in older versions)
- fixes a couple of layout bugs
- added hotkey/ command button support for toggling the Playing Track Panel when docked on the bottom panel
right clicking on the buttons in the caption bar has the same effect as left clicking. There's no way to reach the dialog to add/remove buttons.
i am not sure i will be able to address that but you can access the tool bar from the Layout(1) preferences
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Looking good! Latest tweaks definite improvements, especially the status bar. I feel that is looking great in a number of situations now. Still not 100% sure on the toolbar buttons, I agree they look better further to the left than before but it is still a little 'busy'. That said I don't have a decent suggestion for any improvement at the moment. One thing I have noticed is that if I go fullscreen the toolbar buttons are almost clipped off the top of the screen and do not look good at all. not sure if that is due to my monitor/setup or if others have the same issue?
One small bug in the latest version - there is now a border line with tabs in the caption bar on the active tab (see image).
(http://i.imgur.com/Lw5b0xM.jpg)
Going to spend some more time with this and see how it feels with some extended use.
(http://i.imgur.com/1diWbxO.jpg)
Great work, thanks as always Steven.
EDIT: can someone help... I am trying to change the search box in the image above to be light grey as opposed to plain white but can't seem to find the correct element to edit? thanks!
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One small bug in the latest version - there is now a border line with tabs in the caption bar on the active tab (see image).
(http://i.imgur.com/Lw5b0xM.jpg)
thats intentional so there is no blocking line under the active tab. Your screenshot looks ok to me - do you think it looks wrong?
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One thing I have noticed is that if I go fullscreen the toolbar buttons are almost clipped off the top of the screen and do not look good at all. not sure if that is due to my monitor/setup or if others have the same issue?
are you using skinned windows borders? I'm using windows 7 and there is a 1px gap in that case but thats because there isnt any more room.
Perhaps you can post a fullscreen screenshot so i can have a closer look
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i re-uploaded the link with a 1px adjustment to the buttons when maximised using unskinned borders
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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One small bug in the latest version - there is now a border line with tabs in the caption bar on the active tab (see image).
(http://i.imgur.com/Lw5b0xM.jpg)
thats intentional so there is no blocking line under the active tab. Your screenshot looks ok to me - do you think it looks wrong?
Yes. Does not look right to me. I do not think that single pixel white line should be there. It creates a gap as the playerbar transitions to the active tab. Previously that white line did not show.
One thing I have noticed is that if I go fullscreen the toolbar buttons are almost clipped off the top of the screen and do not look good at all. not sure if that is due to my monitor/setup or if others have the same issue?
are you using skinned windows borders? I'm using windows 7 and there is a 1px gap in that case but thats because there isnt any more room.
Perhaps you can post a fullscreen screenshot so i can have a closer look
Using unskinned borders. This is not a major issue, it just looks cluttered to me. I think that there is a 1px border as you say, its just that it is barely noticeable and does not look great (to me at least). I suppose if the icons were moved down slightly it might look odd when not fullscreen?
(http://i.imgur.com/r3kXAuW.jpg)
EDIT: Ha! You posted the new version while I was writing! 1px adjustment helps I think. Thanks!
(http://i.imgur.com/yxhwZdJ.jpg)
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One small bug in the latest version - there is now a border line with tabs in the caption bar on the active tab (see image).
(http://i.imgur.com/Lw5b0xM.jpg)
thats intentional so there is no blocking line under the active tab. Your screenshot looks ok to me - do you think it looks wrong?
Yes. Does not look right to me. I do not think that single pixel white line should be there. It creates a gap as the playerbar transitions to the active tab. Previously that white line did not show.
it seems MB is using the wrong color - perhaps thats the active tab color when tabs are displayed in the main panel. I might need your skin but i will let you know tomorrow
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i looks like the wrong colour was being used. This should fix that, but let me know if you still think it doesnt look right
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
Also i have moved the toolbar buttons an extra 1 px for windows 8+ when maximised
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Thanks for looking at this Steven. Unfortunately that white line is still there with this new version.
Here is a link to my skin file in case that helps: Download (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-xjtXTp_4kpRmIyOXRtell4SmM/edit?usp=sharing)
The extra 1px for the toolbar buttons definitely helps. Looks better now, thanks.
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this should fix the bug:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
also this version now applies the new status bar which spans the entire application to older skins. Also the 2px gap between the left/ main and right panels (used by midnight and the windows theme is no longer supported and now has a 1px border between those panels. This is so it works better with the new status bar
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I don't think it was a good idea to rearrange the tab bar elements when it's integrated in the caption bar. There is no good reason to force users to learn a new layout and fight old habits if they decide to switch.
The reason given for moving the search box was that it would be aligned with main panel because that's where it applies, and i get that it makes some sense, but surely it's more important to keep the search box in top right corner where everyone expects it to be, even if it's not exactly aligned with the main panel (which i don't expect would confuse anyone).
The reason for moving the configuration layout and toolbar buttons was that it looked cluttered on the right side. So now they are changing their position constantly. But it's true that the clutter on the right side is gone. It's one the left side now. I think there are better ways to deal with clutter without shuffling things around.
I think it was scampbll who proposed that instead of a search box in caption we could just have the magnifying glass icon that when clicked would expand to become a search box (which would already have focus so it would still take one click to enter a search query).
For the toolbar buttons my solution is to combine them into a single dropdown button (maybe with a toolbox icon) that would show a list of user's commands. This would be optional because i don't think everyone is bothered with clutter and they might not appreciate the extra click it would take to execute commands.
I also don't like the changes made to the status bar. First we lost the panel toggles which were quite useful and i don't recall any pleas to remove them. So it seems the only problem with them was again "visual clutter". But why not try to deal with that in some other way than removing the toggles entirely.
The centered file info imo doesn't look that great. On the right side it was always aligned with main panel. Now it is centered with respect to the whole window, but can be off-center with respect to the main panel depending on the layout.
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I have been using the "Dusk" skin this whole time so I was not exactly aware of most of the changes made. But seeing the vocal response from mikebo just now I switched to to the default skin to see what was going on.
I will just say that I agree with everything mikebo said because honestly I don't think I could say it any better myself. But I would like to add that I especially dislike the new status bar, for the reasons stated by mikebo, but also because I don't think it conveys information very well. Especially the now playing information on the right of the bar I think is not immediately clear what it refers to and overall the bar looks kinda clunky visually.
Don't get me wrong I like the concept of trying to reduce vertical space and making the interface look more unified but I still think it needs some more tweaking to find the sweet spot.
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It's a new layout. Learning new habits will be part of it regardless, so let's focus on making it good for the long haul rather than not forcing people to change their habits. Otherwise what's the point? I think the change in the search box and the layout button work well (though I would be interested to see what the hidden search box looked like, for sure). What if the layout button went to the left of the tabs, too, where it would be in the same place all the time?
Not sure more options is really helpful (weren't you just arguing against this, mikebo), but as long as it is optional, the toolbox button might work as a compromise. I would not want it, but I'm having trouble coming up with a better solution.
I think I've made my position on the status bar clear enough: it should be in the main panel only. I agree with what mikebo says about it. I'll just add this, and then I'll leave it alone from here on out: with the player panel at the bottom, the status bar looks like it's meant to be part of the player bar rather than the main panel.
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It's a new layout. Learning new habits will be part of it regardless, so let's focus on making it good for the long haul rather than not forcing people to change their habits. Otherwise what's the point? I think the change in the search box and the layout button work well (though I would be interested to see what the hidden search box looked like, for sure). What if the layout button went to the left of the tabs, too, where it would be in the same place all the time?
While I understand what you are saying and I partially agree I still think there should be a clear logical connection between the two layouts, meaning that the general orientation of elements should be similar otherwise usability might suffer.
I think I've made my position on the status bar clear enough: it should be in the main panel only. I agree with what mikebo says about it. I'll just add this, and then I'll leave it alone from here on out: with the player panel at the bottom, the status bar looks like it's meant to be part of the player bar rather than the main panel.
Agree completely
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Regarding the search button, do you think that something similar to this that is found in Opera Browser would work well? Not sure how technically challenging this would be though.
(http://i.imgur.com/UkPF2Rv.gif)
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I don't think it was a good idea to rearrange the tab bar elements when it's integrated in the caption bar. There is no good reason to force users to learn a new layout and fight old habits if they decide to switch.
The reason given for moving the search box was that it would be aligned with main panel because that's where it applies, and i get that it makes some sense, but surely it's more important to keep the search box in top right corner where everyone expects it to be, even if it's not exactly aligned with the main panel (which i don't expect would confuse anyone).
I agree. I've been keeping quiet about this because the last time I disagreed with a change, I was accused of being "too negative".
Why does the search box become larger in the caption bar view. Surely just having it the same, smaller size would help reduce the clutter in the caption bar.
"(optional) changes for simplified layout " was the proposal. Having the icons and elements moving about with each different view would be counterproductive to this.
The reason for moving the configuration layout and toolbar buttons was that it looked cluttered on the right side. So now they are changing their position constantly. But it's true that the clutter on the right side is gone. It's one the left side now. I think there are better ways to deal with clutter without shuffling things around.
I think it was scampbll who proposed that instead of a search box in caption we could just have the magnifying glass icon that when clicked would expand to become a search box (which would already have focus so it would still take one click to enter a search query).
For the toolbar buttons my solution is to combine them into a single dropdown button (maybe with a toolbox icon) that would show a list of user's commands. This would be optional because i don't think everyone is bothered with clutter and they might not appreciate the extra click it would take to execute commands
I think using the smaller search box in all views would be a better solution than the expanding search box, but with the toolbar buttons, maybe a combination of showing only the first five or six (or what shows in a set space) with the rest expandable across the bar or in a dropdown menu.
I also don't like the changes made to the status bar. First we lost the panel toggles which were quite useful and i don't recall any pleas to remove them. So it seems the only problem with them was again "visual clutter". But why not try to deal with that in some other way than removing the toggles entirely.
The centered file info imo doesn't look that great. On the right side it was always aligned with main panel. Now it is centered with respect to the whole window, but can be off-center with respect to the main panel depending on the layout.
I thought that one of the main aims of this change was to increase vertical display area in the left and right panels. We've lost internet browsing (presumably because it was to hard to integrate into the smaller header space) and we've lost the panel toggles (even though the status panel remains) for a gain of (approx) 30 pixels.
IMO these are big losses for such a small gain.
As always, these are just my opinions and observations. Steven is the creator and distributor of MusicBee and it's his decision (and right) to make the changes he sees fit to do.
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I've been visualizing different layouts in my head and the more I think about this the more I believe that there is no way to include absolutely everything in the header bar while maintaining a high enough level of visual clarity. Hopefully I can be proved wrong though...
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OK. Too late to comment all the responses right now. Lots of strong opinion which I suppose is a good thing.
I will say quickly this though, I simply do not get the dislike of the new status bar. For me, its a big improvement. I find it clear, concise, consistent and visually appealing. The sidebar toggles were superfluous. I like everything grouped under one layout button.
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It's a new layout. Learning new habits will be part of it regardless, so let's focus on making it good for the long haul rather than not forcing people to change their habits. Otherwise what's the point?
You're right and I wasn't clear enough when I wrote
I don't think it was a good idea to rearrange the tab bar elements when it's integrated in the caption bar. There is no good reason to force users to learn a new layout and fight old habits if they decide to switch.
What i meant was that there should be no difference in order of elements in the tab bar between 'Horizontal' and 'Horizontal in Caption Bar' layouts.
I actually think the changes we discussed in this thread shouldn't be optional if they really are an improvement (and i think they are just don't agree with some details)
Regarding the search button, do you think that something similar to this that is found in Opera Browser would work well? Not sure how technically challenging this would be though.
(http://i.imgur.com/UkPF2Rv.gif)
That's very close to what i had in mind. Truly a picture is worth a thousand words (not to mention an animated gif :)
I've been visualizing different layouts in my head and the more I think about this the more I believe that there is no way to include absolutely everything in the header bar while maintaining a high enough level of visual clarity. Hopefully I can be proved wrong though...
If we turned the search box into an expanding button, combine toolbar buttons into one we would be down to three buttons: toolbar, layout configuration and search.
We've lost internet browsing (presumably because it was to hard to integrate into the smaller header space)
That's part of the reason why. It's also gone because it sucked.
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one initial comment i have is i am determined to remove the panel toggle buttons as they dont look good in a number of the skins and also I cant think of any applications that have this type of button and yet the users of those applications seem to manage fine eg. iTunes users need to hide/show the left panel via the main menu. What i will do though is if the status bar remains full width i will add a right click/ Open/ Close panel context menu item on the status bar
Also I will mention for the horizontal tabs when not in the caption bar, for the dark skins they tend to hide the tab effect, and now the tabs extend into the left panel it really doesnt look good for those skins. So i will probably make the default behavior (for skins not flagged to use the new layout) that the tabs bar is in the main panel only
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I will say quickly this though, I simply do not get the dislike of the new status bar.
I don't dislike the new status bar.
What I'm saying is why make change for changes sake. If the status bar is not going to be shortened horizontally to gain more space in the side bars, why remove the sidebar toggles?
As well as moving the searchbox and layout icon back to the right in 'Caption Bar' layout, maybe the "Playing Track" header could be changed as 'now playing' has a comparable meaning
(http://i.cubeupload.com/lxzR9N.jpg) (http://cubeupload.com/im/lxzR9N.jpg)
that way the statusbar could be shortened back to the main panel as originally suggested
(http://i.cubeupload.com/IPLqh6.jpg)
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this should fix the bug:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
also this version now applies the new status bar which spans the entire application to older skins. Also the 2px gap between the left/ main and right panels (used by midnight and the windows theme is no longer supported and now has a 1px border between those panels. This is so it works better with the new status bar
Hate to bring this one back up, but still has not solved the problem I am afraid. Works fine with skinned borders, the white line only shows with unskinned borders.
one initial comment i have is i am determined to remove the panel toggle buttons as they dont look good in a number of the skins and also I cant think of any applications that have this type of button
Agree with this 100%. In terms of whether the statusbar should span the whole width, my opinion is definitely yes. I like what you have done with it in the latest version a lot.
I actually think the changes we discussed in this thread shouldn't be optional if they really are an improvement (and i think they are just don't agree with some details)
Yes. Completely agree with you here.
If we turned the search box into an expanding button, combine toolbar buttons into one we would be down to three buttons: toolbar, layout configuration and search.
I do think this approach sounds really promising.
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In terms of whether the statusbar should span the whole width, my opinion is definitely yes.
I second this.
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- for skins not supporting the new "UseModernLayout" skin settings, tabs are now displayed in the main panel in place of the location bar. This differs from the new tabs in that they dont extend across the left panel. It also looks much better for the dark skins where tab features dont show. Again for the skins without this skin setting, when the tabs are docked in the caption bar then the location bar displays in much the same way as the current musicbee version but only because there would be a large gap if the location bar didnt display
- for the status bar, by default it still spans the entire application window but with improved centering and also tweaks to how the info is displayed when the player is docked down the bottom
- however there is a new skin setting "AllowStatusBarInPanel" that allows you can override the status bar to only show in the main panel when the player is docked down the bottom (when docked elsewhere the status bar spans the entire window). Its not enabled by default as many of the older skins dont look good with the status bar only in the main panel. A new element override controls the colours of the status bar when displayed in the main panel only "Panel.StatusBarInPanel.Default"
- an updated MusicBee default skin is included with this setting enabled so you can see what it looks like
- I ask people creating skins to consider how it looks when the library explorer or Now Playing list is docked in the left panel and the main panel is displaying a full panel of tracks in Track Details layout. Personally i dont like that the panels dont align on the bottom so i might still consider showing the status bar across the entire panel in that case (or at least spanning the left and main panels)
- I havent looked at the tabs in caption bar as yet and still plan to add elements for the tabs bar separators
<element id="UseModernLayout">true</element>
<element id="CaptionBar.HeaderControl.Default" fg="190,190,190" />
<element id="CaptionBar.HeaderControl.Disabled" fg="120,120,120" />
<element id="Panel.StatusBarInPanel.Default" bg="245,245,245" fg="95,95,95" bdr="230,230,230" />
<element id="AllowStatusBarInPanel">true</element>
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Hate to bring this one back up, but still has not solved the problem I am afraid. Works fine with skinned borders, the white line only shows with unskinned borders.
Fixed - Thank you!
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What i meant was that there should be no difference in order of elements in the tab bar between 'Horizontal' and 'Horizontal in Caption Bar' layouts. I actually think the changes we discussed in this thread shouldn't be optional if they really are an improvement (and i think they are just don't agree with some details)
Ah, I see. You're right on that. They should be consistent within the layout.
- however there is a new skin setting "AllowStatusBarInPanel" that allows you can override the status bar to only show in the main panel when the player is docked down the bottom (when docked elsewhere the status bar spans the entire window). Its not enabled by default as many of the older skins dont look good with the status bar only in the main panel. A new element override controls the colours of the status bar when displayed in the main panel only "Panel.StatusBarInPanel.Default"
Yay for this option, and could it please be applied even without the player bar at the bottom? I promise I'll check all the potential layouts with Mellon Remixed. :)
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I noticed a little bug with modern layout activated (horizontal in caption bar). It's not possible to adjust the now playing list via mouse in the left sidebar, right sidebar works fine.
do you mean that the Now Playing panel header doesnt display? I see it happens if the tabs are docked in the caption bar which is fixed for the next update
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- when tabs are docked in the caption bar, the toolbar buttons (if any) now show as a single button which you click to open a popup toolbar. It also has the advantage that the popup panel background is the same colour as the standard header bar so icon colouring will still work well
- new elements for tabs bar separators for the inactive tabs (like in mikebo's screenshots on page 6)
<element id="TabsBar.Tab.Separator" bg="180,180,180" />
<element id="TabsBar.TabInCaptionBar.Separator" bg="180,180,180" />
i will wait for more feedback before deciding what to add/ change (if anything) but i am pretty happy with it and dont want to make any substantial changes. I would also like some comments from people using dark skins and see if you agree with me it looks better without the "UseModernLayout" setting when tabs are in the main panel
Lastly, regarding the remove of the web browser interface - if it seems enough people will miss that functionality i will add it back in as a plugin
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Steven, will 'Upcoming concerts', etc. work without web browser interface? If "no" I will vote for remaining web interface.
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one initial comment i have is i am determined to remove the panel toggle buttons
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Or will this removal be optional?
(either through configuration setting or skin file)
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(http://i.imgur.com/JkYgjPOl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/JkYgjPO.png)
Both esthetically and functional it looks strange to me that the first tab is positioned above the left panel, and doesn't align vertically above the main panel.
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Steven, will 'Upcoming concerts', etc. work without web browser interface? If "no" I will vote for remaining web interface.
yes they continue to work as now
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The collected toolbar button icon stays in the caption bar after switching from horizontal tabs in caption bar to anything else.
Just had my first quick play-around with this - overall, I like it. I think the new positioning of the horizontal tabs in both places looks really good - may even consider putting them in the caption bar now, as I think that looks really great. I also really like the collected toolbar button.
Vertical tabs isn't particularly great, but I never considered it to be anyway and I understand that's not what this is focussing on at first (if ever).
I would also like some comments from people using dark skins and see if you agree with me it looks better without the "UseModernLayout" setting when tabs are in the main panel.
Not quite sure what you mean by this, but I'd very much like to see the new layout in dark skins as well. I really like the tabs all the way across the screen. I feel it would work fine. Has anyone got a modified dark skin kicking around for me to try it out with?
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I would also like some comments from people using dark skins and see if you agree with me it looks better without the "UseModernLayout" setting when tabs are in the main panel.
Not quite sure what you mean by this, but I'd very much like to see the new layout in dark skins as well. I really like the tabs all the way across the screen. I feel it would work fine. Has anyone got a modified dark skin kicking around for me to try it out with?
unless you edited the dark skins to set "UseModernLayout" you wont be able to see what i mean. The current default behavior skins without this setting is to show the tabs where the location bar was in the main panel. In my opinion this looks good with the dark skins. But with the new setting enabled,
this shows what i mean - with "UseModernLayout" first and then without
(http://getmusicbee.com/images/forum/DarkExamples.png)
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In that dark skin, I think either layout works fine. However, I most frequently use Honeycomb, old as it is, and in that skin I think it would look much better with the New Layout as the left navigator panel headers (e.g. Library - MusicBee) have a gradient behind them, matching the gradient of the column headers in the main panel (see pic). If these were aligned, it would definitely be an aesthetic improvement.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50123406/Headers.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50123406/Headers.png)
Realised I never commented on the status bar change. I'm kind of ambivalent - I don't think it's necessarily a big improvement, but I also don't think it's a bad change. However, I do like having the queued duration down in the bottom left - it'll take me a little while to get used to, but I think it makes more sense there.
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- fixes a few more bugs
- for older skins, it now extends the tabs into the left panel for the horizontal layout in the main panel
- new panel layout option to not show the tabs bar. This will be the default for new users
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When using the default skin, what is the difference between using the classic and modern layouts?
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a suggestion for the new horizontal tabs layout:
1) background/border line under tabs
(http://i.imgur.com/pEDrbQr.jpg) (http://imgur.com/pEDrbQr)
2) make tabs into floating, joined buttons (preferred option)
(http://i.imgur.com/OBirFIX.jpg) (http://imgur.com/OBirFIX)
Steven, would you please also consider restoring the border attribute to the menu caption bar button element. On some skins, where the bg matches the skinned border colour, the loss of the border doesn't look that good.
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Putting the toolbar buttons behind another button is just about a deal-breaker for me. The biggest benefit this layout offers me is the ability to put tabs in the caption bar and get a little more vertical space, but it's not worth it if I don't have direct access to the buttons.
...wait, is this not an optional layout anymore? I switched back to a regular skin and nothing changed.
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/w37hzh4o95mlptj/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- i have added a "group toolbar buttons when docked in the caption bar" option in the toolbar configuration dialog, enabled by default
- added back support for a border element on the menu button
I know it's probably not exactly related to this topic, but could you adjust the column browser header so it has the same height as the thumbnail browser, Steven? I always thought the gap above the characters is way too small.
Edit: Also something related, the option to choose how many columns to be displayed for the column browser is missing in the Configure Layout button.
its not possible to change the column header heights as thats controled by windows. The layout options are in the Preferences/ Layout(1) & (2) dialog
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IMHO,
<element id="UseModernLayout">false</element> should apply to "tabs bar: horizontal", not only "tabs bar: Horizontal (Caption Bar)". This way, this new layout would be really optional.
<element id="UseModernLayout">true</element> should extend the tabs/tool bar in the right panel too, not only the left panel:
- since tabs bar and toolbar are merged in the new layout and when using a lot of tabs and toolbar buttons, the extra space on the ride side would be welcome. Having a lot of "..." at the end of each tab is not really wanted.
- Expanding / hidding the right panel should not modify the size of the tabs and move the position of the toolbar buttons/search box. It's quiete disturbing.
<element id="AllowStatusBarInPanel">true</element> should work with player controls on top too.
- Whatever the position of the player controls, the status bar doesn't need this extra space but the left/right panel does.
- And skinning wise, the left /right panel and the central panel could have a different color: atm, you have to choose the color of the central panel or the color of the left/right panel for the status bar.
<element id="ClassicNewTabButton">true</element> doesn't work anymore. Is it intended? I really don't like this "+" button. With this setting, I can hide or skin it and I'd really like the comeback of this setting: for me, a button like this is mandotory in a web browser, but useless in MusicBee because I don't use it every day: A right click, then a "add new tab" option in the drop down menu would be enough. But I guess some ppl use it a lot, that why I'd like the comeback of this setting.
If you want more vertical space, what about having an hide option for the header in album & tracks / tracks view like we have for artwork view?
With few columns displayed, you don't need this header to be always apparent since the content of those columns is obvious, while with a lot of columns displayed, it's better to have it always apparent (but I think that adding a horizontal scrollbar would be great: resizing a column or mouse over to see the tooltip isn't really friendly user).
If you don't want to implement this option, would you consider to add a gap setting between this new tabs/tool bar and the rest of the panel, plz? Some skins would take advange of more space between those two elements. IMO, there's not enough space between the tabs bar and the header bar of the central panel.
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- added back support for a border element on the menu button
thank you for doing this
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Okay, I'm going to ask again. What is the difference between the modern and the classic layouts? Because they seem identical to me. Is the new layout no longer optional?
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Perhaps it's skin-dependent. I'm using a self-modified version of AeroBee. The two main differences I see are in the PLAY/FORWARD/BACK buttons, along with the ability to use the Wave Bar in the modern layout.
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keep in mind this has been an iterative processs so what i was thinking when this topic started has moved on and there has been a lot of strong opinions expressed so i guess not everyone is going to happy.
The changes wont be optional, other than i might leave the skin creators with the flag to to implement the new layout with tabs in the caption bar - the reason that might be optional is so older skins, which wont have implemented the new colour elements, still look ok. But i am going to spend some time checking them before I finally decide on that. I will leave in the skin override to control the status bar layout when the player is docked down the bottom as i agree with some of the comments made with that.
So in summary the changes are:
- the tabs bar is optionally displayed - when not displayed the layout looks pretty much as now other than some minor formatting changes to the location bar and that the location bar can no longer be edited. This is the default for new users and i expect for the bulk of people they wont even bother with tabs.
- when the tabs bar is displayed horizontally it now extends into the left panel. I would still like some feedback from users of dark skins where the tabs are not outlined whether they think it works well
- when the tabs bar is displayed in the caption bar, the search box and toolbar buttons are also displayed in the caption bar to create some extra vertical space. The toolbar buttons can be optionally (by default enabled) grouped under one button. With the latest version this behavior is controlled by the skin creator but as mentioned that might be no longer optional
- for the status bar, the panel flip buttons are gone. You can still create toolbar buttons to do the same action
- the now playing duration now displays in the status bar
- there is a skin setting to control the layout of the status bar when the player is docked down the bottom
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I have 2.4.5301 with a Dark Fine-tuned skin. I like the smaller header, looks good. But I miss the cross sign to close the left and the right sidebar when they are open and the arrows signs to open them manually when closed.
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- when the tabs bar is displayed horizontally it now extends into the left panel. I would still like some feedback from users of dark skins where the tabs are not outlined whether they think it works well
I find that extending the tab bar into the left panel somewhat disorienting. This could be because I'm not used to it yet. But I find myself looking directly above the center panel to see my tabs. Truth be told, I don't use tabs all that often so this won't bother me too much, but since you're looking to make a major change to the layout, I thought I should bring it up.
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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- new horizontal tab dock choices: Horizontal (Left+Main Panel) and Horizontal (Main Panel)
- a few bug fixes
- new MusicBee Default skin based off SteelAndBee (by colagen) and Smooth Grey (by rotemK) with various tweaks and new skin elements
also i will not enforce the new layout when tabs are docked in the caption bar as it doesnt work well with various older skins, so the new layout for tabs in the caption bar will only work with skins that implement the new elements
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I haven't had a chance to fully explore the most recent changes yet. Looking forward to doing so, but it might be a few more days.
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- new horizontal tab dock choices: Horizontal (Left+Main Panel) and Horizontal (Main Panel)
Nicely done, Steven. Thanks.
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I've noticed a couple of bugs.
1. You are no longer able to drag and drop tracks between tabs, for example the Inbox and the Music Library. It works fine on the left panel but not if you drop the track onto a tab.
2. If you maximize MusiceBee on a monitor that does not have the Windows taskbar on it, the bottom border will still be drawn although it shouldn't be.
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1. It seems that "Panel.CommandIconOverride" is defunct. Is this intentional?
@ Underneath
working fine for me on latest update (Vers: 2.4.5302). That screencap for 3. is showing an old layout. You may have missed Steven's latest improvements.
@ Steven
if you assign a toolbar icon to "View: Toggle Show Left Panel", when used in an older skin, it also opens the floating lyrics panel. Works fine in any "Modern" layout.
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Everything's looking pretty good now. The new caption bar is distracting me less than it did at first, although I'm still not in love with it.
Only thing: in 2.4.5302 the custom buttons shown in the caption bar have lost the cool mouseover highlight. :'(
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@ Underneath
working fine for me on latest update (Vers: 2.4.5302).
When I hover over a toolbar button (displayed as text), it won't change the color. Same with MusicBee's default skin. Maybe I called the wrong element last post.
you're right Underneath,
<element id="Panel.HeaderButtonOverride.Highlight" /> is not working for old or new skins
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Looks very nice with new default skin, thank you.
One thing happend: all of my radio station pictures disappeared in the radio tab with the new 2.4.5302 version. They can be edited again for every radio station but this has to be done twice for every picture until you can see them again in the radio tab. It would be fantasic to store the radio pictures in a definable folder in the same way as the artist pictures. No loss of them after changes.
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1. You are no longer able to drag and drop tracks between tabs, for example the Inbox and the Music Library. It works fine on the left panel but not if you drop the track onto a tab.
2. If you maximize MusiceBee on a monitor that does not have the Windows taskbar on it, the bottom border will still be drawn although it shouldn't be.
1 should be fixed for the next v2.4 update. For 2, i havent made any changes. MB is using standard windows API calls to get the available area and if that isnt working i dont think i would be able to help with this
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1. Mouseover toolbar button (displayed as text), it won't highlight the color.
2. Also if you close the last tab in the horizontal main panel tabs bar, it switches back to "do not display". Left+Main Panel also affected. I think it's weird behaviour.
3. If many tabs in caption bar + icons/text buttons, this will result (overlap with form buttons):
1&3 should be fixed for the next v2.4 update. 2 is intentional but i have changed it to only remove the tabs bar is the tabs bar is only in the main panel.
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if you assign a toolbar icon to "View: Toggle Show Left Panel", when used in an older skin, it also opens the floating lyrics panel. Works fine in any "Modern" layout.
its working fine for me with an older skin and i dont see what the skin settings have to do with it. Could you reconfirm
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you're right Underneath,
<element id="Panel.HeaderButtonOverride.Highlight" /> is not working for old or new skins
the command buttons now brighten on mouse-over instead of a background square (using that colour override). It should still be using it for text commands though (apart from the general issue with highlighting not working in the last version)
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One thing happend: all of my radio station pictures disappeared in the radio tab with the new 2.4.5302 version. They can be edited again for every radio station but this has to be done twice for every picture until you can see them again in the radio tab. It would be fantasic to store the radio pictures in a definable folder in the same way as the artist pictures. No loss of them after changes.
working fine here (my existing pictures all show) and nothing has been changed around this. I dont think i will be able to help with this
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this has the various bug fixes
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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if you assign a toolbar icon to "View: Toggle Show Left Panel", when used in an older skin, it also opens the floating lyrics panel. Works fine in any "Modern" layout.
its working fine for me with an older skin and i dont see what the skin settings have to do with it. Could you reconfirm
Can confirm that whatever toolbar command is set 7 places after "View: Toggle Show Left Panel" is also activated at the same time when using an older skin.
(this is in AeroBee)
(http://i.cubeupload.com/7BI6Zw.jpg)
if I move 'LH panel' to #2, 'random track' also activates
if moved to position #3, 'send to ext (MP3tag)' also opens
etc, etc, etc
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Can confirm that whatever toolbar command is set 7 places after "View: Toggle Show Left Panel" is also activated at the same time when using an older skin.
I think the skin is just a coincidence - the bug should be fixed for the next v2.4 update
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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The small vertical line left of the search field which indicates were you can drag to resize has been thinned to (I presume) 1 pixel.
It is now very difficult to grab it exactly. Can the grabbing area be made a bit more convenient? (5 pixels?)
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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- option in Layout(1) preferences to show the left and right open/close panel buttons in the status bar
- for skin authors, when this option is enabled the "AllowStatusBarInPanel" setting is ignored ie. the status bar extends across the entire window. For this reason i would like to get rid of this skin setting but i will see if people still want to keep it. Also note that the skin colouring setting: "Panel.StatusBarControlInPanel.Default" applies when the player is docked in the bottom panel irrespective of whether "AllowStatusBarInPanel" is set or not
- new skin elements:
override the artwork panel scrollbars:
Content[Artwork].ScrollBarThumb
Content[Artwork].ScrollBarBackground
Content[Artwork].ScrollBar
Panel.StatusBarControlInPanel.Default - fg only, overrides the colour of the open/close panel buttons when the player is docked down the bottom
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The source skin would be helpful, thanks. I need to get the wiki updated with these new elements.
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- the bottom bar with the open/close buttons and the file summary stats to not display. The operation for opening/closing the panels would need to be done via a menu
This is a total no-go :/ Is there a way to have them back again?
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is already been addressed if you check your wishlist request
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I really like how my old skin (my mixture of DarkRED Flat and FineTuned Dark) works in new MB version: I have enough space for my tabs in caption bar and below I have searchbar and toolbar with the show right and show left panel buttons (marked in red), so that I do not longer miss the status bar. But it is a good idea to show left and right sidebar buttons as an option in preferences.
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/140715/uehe3842.jpg)
With new default skin I would use the statusbar, because it is no option for me to open the new show toolbar button and then open or close my sidebars (do not use auto-open). And it is also no option for me to use the new Tab Bar – Horizontal version, it is too crammed for the way I like to use MusicBee:
(http://s7.directupload.net/images/140715/cfwu6eq9.jpg)
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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
as an experiment, i have forced the skin setting so that when tabs are docked in the caption bar then all skins now use the new layout. I know there are at least a couple of skins where the existing colouring doesnt work but i am doing this to see whether it works generally
Also the status bar activity text now aligns with the left margin of the main panel when the player is docked down the bottom. I think this works better with some skins and perhaps not so well with some skins where the left panel blends with the main panel - comments welcome
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You know my opinion on that as I reported it already! However, I'm probably going to modify Honeycomb to see if I can improve it for the new layout, and it may look better there.
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I much prefer the status bar text aligned with the main panel.
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as an experiment, i have forced the skin setting so that when tabs are docked in the caption bar then all skins now use the new layout. I know there are at least a couple of skins where the existing colouring doesnt work but i am doing this to see whether it works generally
It seems not to work on most of the the dark skins
Also the status bar activity text now aligns with the left margin of the main panel when the player is docked down the bottom. I think this works better with some skins and perhaps not so well with some skins where the left panel blends with the main panel
I think this is my preferred option for all skins
Would you please also consider moving the tabs in Horizontal (main & left+main) up by 1px and re-instating the bdr attribute from
<element id="TabsBar.Tab.Highlight" />
I think it helps to tie the tabs to the panel, especially when using left+main.
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I much prefer the status bar text aligned with the main panel.
This
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Would you please also consider moving the tabs in Horizontal (main & left+main) up by 1px and re-instating the bdr attribute from
<element id="TabsBar.Tab.Highlight" />
I think it helps to tie the tabs to the panel, especially when using left+main.
that wont be possible as the tabs bar not extends across the entire main panel. Is there any reason you dont just set "MainPanelTopBorder" to true?
If its just that it needs a different colour (it would be using the panel border colour i think) then i can look at adding tbat
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that wont be possible as the tabs bar not extends across the entire main panel. Is there any reason you dont just set "MainPanelTopBorder" to true?
If its just that it needs a different colour (it would be using the panel border colour i think) then i can look at adding tbat
If I set "MainPanelTopBorder" to true, then add the bdr attribute to <element id="Panel.Body.Default" />, you don't just get that one single line under the tabs, you also get a whole contrasting border to the panel.
If you could provide an override for just the top border colour, than that would be a great workaround to achieve the older "TabsBar.Tab.Highlight" border look.
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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
- i am not planning to make any further changes with this
- the toolbar config dialog now has the options to show all toolbar buttons; grouped into one button; and for when tabs are in the caption bar and you have a lot of buttons you can set the buttons (and search box) to display at the top of the main panel (like the older versions of MB worked)
If I set "MainPanelTopBorder" to true, then add the bdr attribute to <element id="Panel.Body.Default" />, you don't just get that one single line under the tabs, you also get a whole contrasting border to the panel.
i have added "MainPanelTopBorderColour" bdr="90,90,90"
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to summarise all the changes made:
- location bar changes:
- the location bar is no longer editable and only shows when tabs are not displayed or vertical
- the refresh button no longer displays - create a toolbar button or use the F5 key if you use this a lot
- tabs bar can be configured to show:
- Caption Bar
- Horizontal (Main Panel)
- Horizontal (Left + Main Panel)
- Vertical
- Not Displayed (default)
- when tabs are shown in the caption bar, the search box also shows in the caption bar and the panel header bars are removed, creating some extra vertical space
- tool buttons can be configured:
- show all buttons
- grouped under one button
- when tabs are in the caption bar, show all buttons in the main panel (use if you have a lot of buttons but this restores the header bar so losing the vertical space saved)
- the Panel Layout button in the main panel now centralises all panel positioning functions
- options to customise a particular panel can be acheived by right clicking on the panel/ Customise Panel or from the Layout(2) preferences dialog
- status bar changes:
- status bar buttons have been removed
- the left and right panel open/close buttons can be restored from the Layout(1) preferences
- the Library explorer can be shown/ hidden from the Layout(1) preferences dialog or right click on the left sidebar/ Customise Panel Settings/ Show Library Explorer
- when the player is not docked on the bottom ie. the status bar is the bottom most panel, then the summary text is centred
- the minimise/ restore button functionality for the playing track panel can be acheived by creating a command button or from the Panel Layout button/ Playing Track menu
- now playing queue length now displays in the status bar
- the 2px gap between panels for some of the older skins is no longer supported (because of the tab bar changes) - the panels are now separated by a single px border line
- Internal web browser for blogs is removed but the functionality can be restored with a plugin
- new skin elements - http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2499.msg80322#new
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i have added "MainPanelTopBorderColour" bdr="90,90,90"
Thank you for doing this.
Unfortunately it is also being applied to all the borders of the LH panel.
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Unfortunately it is also being applied to all the borders of the LH panel.
can you send me your settings file and the skin
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can you send me your settings file and the skin
file link via PM
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<element id="ClassicNewTabButton">true</element>
<element id="UseModernLayout">false</element>
Do these two still have a function?
They don't seem to have any effect anymore.
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@Bee-liever, that should be fixed if you use the latest version:
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
<element id="ClassicNewTabButton">true</element>
<element id="UseModernLayout">false</element>
Do these two still have a function?
They don't seem to have any effect anymore.
no - these elements no longer serve any purpose with the new functionality
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Some minor bugs:
- tab border isn't flush with MainPanelTopBorder (only on the left side)
(http://i.imgur.com/YsU2iWR.png)
- when switching tabs with ctrl+tab MainPanelTopBorder isn't redrawn properly
(http://i.imgur.com/yJRJRve.png)
- when changing the position of player controls between top and bottom they aren't redrawn properly. (don't know if this bug is a side effect of the layout changes or unrelated)
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I think this (error?) was introduced with the new layout:
(http://i.imgur.com/RCuUJwXl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/RCuUJwX.png)
1. is intentional set to yellow (id="MainPanelTopBorderColour")
2. are borders that then also appear (unwanted) in that color
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I think this (error?) was introduced with the new layout:
those should have been addressed in today's version
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I think this (error?) was introduced with the new layout:
those should have been addressed in today's version
You are right, it is displaying properly again with 2.4.5315
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Well, I'm not really enthousiastic about this new layout. I like the idea of merging the toolbar and the tabs bar but here the result with my usual layout: too many "...":
(http://i.imgur.com/37yqgY8.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/37yqgY8.jpg)
I don't wanna use vetical tabs bar (same result + vertical text isn't easily readable) or horizontal in titlebar (I'm trying to get a clean layout in my skin, so titlebar have to be clean + "1 click" toolbar buttons become "2 clicks" buttons).
I was quite pleased with the old layout. Enough space for all my tabs and no icon, only text:
(http://i.imgur.com/S0B3WUf.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/S0B3WUf.jpg)
Tried to solve this. Let's try to hide the tabs text and just display the icon. In fact, it's gonna be perfect: this new bar is going to display icons only.
But I forgot that almost all my tabs have the same icon (the library one).
So, would you consider to add something like this: right click on the tab, then "choose icon" (the icon would be in the Icons folder") and hide text? So, tabs icons would look like the toolbar buttons (same space between icons and same icon size), but left aligned (toolbar icons will still be right aligned).
One last thing, about the now playing duration. I don't get it. I would have understood if the Now Playing header had been removed. But this header is still here. So, why moving the duration so far?
(http://i.imgur.com/kpNz0mv.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/kpNz0mv.jpg)
vs.
(http://i.imgur.com/cijqmnA.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/cijqmnA.jpg)
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One last thing, about the now playing duration. I don't get it. I would have understood if the Now Playing header had been removed. But this header is still here. So, why moving the duration so far?
If you have tabs in caption and the now playing list is docked in right sidebar the header is removed to make it flush with main panel. So with the header gone Steven had to put the duration somewhere else and he chose the status bar. I guess that for consistency he made it show in the status bar even for layouts where header is visible.
I too would prefer the duration to remain in the header, and only for instances where the header or now playing list is hidden to show duration in status bar.
Also it was possible to change the total duration in header to remaining time. Can't do that in status bar.
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Also it was possible to change the total duration in header to remaining time. Can't do that in status bar.
I suspect Steven removed that functionality because it was very broken when it came to a shuffled now-playing list. He once turned down a wishlist request of mine regarding the remaining time feature for that reason.
EDIT: But I forgot that almost all my tabs have the same icon (the library one).
So, would you consider to add something like this: right click on the tab, then "choose icon" (the icon would be in the Icons folder") and hide text? So, tabs icons would look like the toolbar buttons (same space between icons and same icon size), but left aligned (toolbar icons will still be right aligned).
This strikes me as a good idea, particularly if it can be done for filters (so each filter can be assigned a custom icon). That would save having to re-choose the icon every time tabs are opened or closed.
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This: http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=9352.15 thread has over a year now, MB looked a bit differently then, but I guess some of it's ideas are being discussed now, so thou outdated (f.e. right now the search box is situated in much better position than in my ideas), it may be useful.
If you don't want to go through the whole thread, here are some mockups for Main/Mini/Compact player unification ideas I did then.
MAIN PLAYER:
(http://i.imgur.com/hFDofuw.png)
MAIN + COMPACT (the view could switch automaticlly after a set up idle time)
(http://i.imgur.com/h3jzS5H.png)
MINI PLAYER (based on an old miniplayer)
(http://i.imgur.com/ibIxsBK.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/n7308J1.png)
MINICOMPACT PLAYER (this is sth between the new mini player and compact player):
(http://i.imgur.com/knk3D8j.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/u5vjQpn.png)
NOTE: images should be resizable. Please don't a lo-fi design quality, I'm an amateur and these are just ideas. EDIT: they weren't, so I've changed them to bigger ones.
NOTE2: As mentioned above - right now in the changes being introduces the search box is located in much better place than in these ideas.
NOTE3: I like these changes you introduce and the direction MB goes to. Great job, people!!!
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i have added an extra option in the toolbar configuration dialog so that the toolbar buttons can be displayed on a separate row when tabs are docked in the main panel ie. effectively the old layout
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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This was added a few days ago:
"to force musicbee to display the status bar in the main panel when the player is docked down the bottom (I might remove support for this):
<element id="AllowStatusBarInPanel">true</element>"
When activated, some abnormalities appear in Library Explorer and Track Information.
I assume this element is abandoned and shouldn't be used anymore?
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you need to be specific about the issues and a screenshot would probably help.
I dont really want to keep the setting it as i dont think its consistent but some people feel strongly its needed so i guess i will support it within reason.
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Without "AllowStatusBarInPanel" element:
(http://i.imgur.com/zpQobk7l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/zpQobk7.png)
With "AllowStatusBarInPanel">true<
(http://i.imgur.com/JDnkc73l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/JDnkc73.png)
Library panel misses bottom "thumb".
Spectrum Analyzer in Track Information misses bottom of scale.
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i dont have time to test this but it should probably fix the issue. Let me know if it doesnt and i will test it properly next time
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- Panel Layout button is almost invisible in tabs in caption bar mode with lots of dark skins (e.g. Dark fine-tuned, Darknight Blue from mine). If this can be fixed, I guess it's not mandatory to update existing skins with these changes.
- Column browser is now only configurable through preferences dialog, which I found very inconvenient. How about showing menu items upon right-clicking on the column browser header? Also consider to support this related wish of mine, which could help at least save some clicks: http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=12447.0
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Regarding playing track panel hotkeys,
- When you're using the hotkey for toggling show bottom pane, there's a discrepancy with Panel Layout button menus, although it's working correctly in functionality. If you tick "Do Not Display" with Panel Layout button, then the hotkey doesn't work. Also when you hide the panel with the hotkey, still "Bottom Pane" is ticked in the menu. Shouldn't it toggle between "Bottom Pane" and "Do not display" with the hotkey?
- Could you support a hotkey for toggling playing track panel in a tab as well?
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1)
If you have tabs in caption and the now playing list is docked in right sidebar the header is removed to make it flush with main panel. So with the header gone Steven had to put the duration somewhere else and he chose the status bar. I guess that for consistency he made it show in the status bar even for layouts where header is visible.
Since the most important thing about this header is moved to the status bar, why not just removing this "useless" header when docked to the right (whatever the position of the tabs: main panel or titlebar) and extend the new tabs/toolbar to the right when you tick "Horizontal (Left + Main Panel)"?
- more space for tabs and/or icons! Since two bars are merged, this extra space would be welcome.
- more consistent:
-> Right panel have an header, left one haven't
-> icons and search box are staying at the same position, whatever the status of the right panel (expanded or not)
Here 2 screenshots I made (1 year ago) in this topic (http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=10129.msg60613#msg60613):
(https://imageshack.com/a/img845/522/dd6m.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/a/img845/522/dd6m.jpg)
vs.
(https://imageshack.com/a/img811/9003/1y1m.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/a/img811/9003/1y1m.jpg)
2)
i have added an extra option in the toolbar configuration dialog so that the toolbar buttons can be displayed on a separate row when tabs are docked in the main panel ie. effectively the old layout
Thank you!
3) Could we have a skin element (or the ability to choose our own icon in icons folder) for this new "group icons into one" button, please?
4) About this new horizontal icons popup (when you press the "group icons into one" button), why not something like google?
(http://i.imgur.com/LykgItX.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/LykgItX.jpg)
It's not really a wish, I'm OK with the actual icons popup. Just giving an idea about an alternative layout (I forgot to hide the text under each icons...). IMO, it looks better, it's more intuitive (vertical orientation, like a dropdown menu) and it's easier/faster to click.
5) One last thing about this icons popup: I think that the close button is useless since:
- clicking a second time on the "group icons into one" button close the popup (good enough and faster)
- performing another action auto-close the popup (even faster)
So, you'll never use this "close" button!
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Can you support overrides for search box on the caption bar? The thing is that many of my dark skins use gradients in their caption bar and I'd like to use the same color for search box when it's on the bar. But it would look odd when it's on the main panel. So I'd like to have overrides for Controls.SearchBox.Default (bg, bg2, fg) and Controls.SearchBox.Lowlight (fg).
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Can you support overrides for search box on the caption bar? The thing is that many of my dark skins use gradients in their caption bar and I'd like to use the same color for search box when it's on the bar. But it would look odd when it's on the main panel. So I'd like to have overrides for Controls.SearchBox.Default (bg, bg2, fg) and Controls.SearchBox.Lowlight (fg).
its not possible to support a gradient with text boxes but if have added the following overrides for the next update in case they are useful anyway:
CaptionBar.SearchBox.Default fg, bg
CaptionBar.SearchBox.Lowlight fg -- for the search box menu button
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CaptionBar.SearchBox.Default fg, bg
Why no bdr?
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i will also add bdr but its not as straight-forward as it sounds
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Can you support overrides for search box on the caption bar? The thing is that many of my dark skins use gradients in their caption bar and I'd like to use the same color for search box when it's on the bar. But it would look odd when it's on the main panel. So I'd like to have overrides for Controls.SearchBox.Default (bg, bg2, fg) and Controls.SearchBox.Lowlight (fg).
its not possible to support a gradient with text boxes but if have added the following overrides for the next update in case they are useful anyway:
CaptionBar.SearchBox.Default fg, bg
CaptionBar.SearchBox.Lowlight fg -- for the search box menu button
Thanks! Should be useful regardless of support for gradients.
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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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Could you support an override of Panel.CommandIconOverride for toolbar buttons on the caption bar, the color of which is different from that on the main panel? I need this for my multi-color Pastels skin set.
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http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
I have added:
CaptionBar.CommandButtonOverride fg, bg
CaptionBar.CommandIconOverride fg
this version also fixes a bug where MB wasnt defaulting the back/forward/ panel layout button colours to the main panel button colours and hence were not showing for dark skins
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Thanks! Working great.
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Regarding playing track panel hotkeys,
- When you're using the hotkey for toggling show bottom pane, there's a discrepancy with Panel Layout button menus, although it's working correctly in functionality. If you tick "Do Not Display" with Panel Layout button, then the hotkey doesn't work. Also when you hide the panel with the hotkey, still "Bottom Pane" is ticked in the menu. Shouldn't it toggle between "Bottom Pane" and "Do not display" with the hotkey?
Bump.
Once playing track panel in tab is closed down, the hotkey for opening bottom pane doesn't work until you click on panel layout button and tick bottom pane again. Very annoying.
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the way it works mirrors how it used to work with the buttons ie. there was no button when the panel was not active.
However its a simple change to make it work in a more useful way with the hotkey, which i have done for the next v2.4 update
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Though now it always points to "Do Not Display", the hotkey's working fine now.
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Though now it always points to "Do Not Display", the hotkey's working fine now.
i have made some minor changes (however it wasnt doing that for me)
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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- when switching tabs with ctrl+tab MainPanelTopBorder isn't redrawn properly
(http://i.imgur.com/yJRJRve.png)
Also when after right clicking an inactive tab MB will switch to that tab and show the context menu, but MainPanelTopBorder isn't redrawn.
So a fix would be to either make it redraw properly or not switching to that tab and just showing the menu.
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thats fixed now:
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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- when switching tabs with ctrl+tab MainPanelTopBorder isn't redrawn properly
(http://i.imgur.com/yJRJRve.png)
Also when after right clicking an inactive tab MB will switch to that tab and show the context menu, but MainPanelTopBorder isn't redrawn.
So a fix would be to either make it redraw properly or not switching to that tab and just showing the menu.
MainPanelTopBorder isn't redrawn when closing the rightmost tab from it's context menu or by ctrl+w.
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thats also fixed:
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V2_4/MusicBee_Exe_Patched.zip
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In tabs in caption bar mode with all buttons in caption bar, right-click menu to open configure toolbar pane is not available. Is this an oversight or not supported?
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In tabs in caption bar mode with all buttons in caption bar, right-click menu to open configure toolbar pane is not available. Is this an oversight or not supported?
I asked about this a while back. It's not supported.
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- when the player is not docked on the bottom ie. the status bar is the bottom most panel, then the summary text is centred
How about making the text always center-aligned regardless of sidebars' widths? Currently it's affected by the width of either sidebar.
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Bump. I don't get this. You made the status bar extending across the entire window. Then why is the centered text aligned with the main panel instead of the whole app? It's annoying the text keeps moving whenever I show/hide sidebars.
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From what I remember, people complained more when it wasn't aligned with the sidebar. I was of the same opinion as you, but clearly in the minority, and Steven went with the majority.
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From what I remember, people complained more when it wasn't aligned with the sidebar. I was of the same opinion as you, but clearly in the minority, and Steven went with the majority.
Not sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the centered text on the status bar when the player bar is docked at the top. It's not centered of the entire app, but of the main panel.
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From what I remember, people complained more when it wasn't aligned with the sidebar. I was of the same opinion as you, but clearly in the minority, and Steven went with the majority.
Not sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the centered text on the status bar when the player bar is docked at the top. It's not centered of the entire app, but of the main panel.
I can't get that situation to occur. What exact settings are you using?
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it only centers the summary information when the player control panel is not on the bottom and the panel open/close buttons not displayed.
I will change it so it centers to the application window rather than the main panel
edit:
thats done for the next v2.5 update
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Thanks for the update! Looking good now.
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BTW I noticed sidebar open/hide button option's gone with this version from preferences> layout (1).
edit: OK, got it. It's moved to panel layout button.