getmusicbee.com

Support => Questions => Topic started by: e-motiv on June 12, 2014, 07:54:31 PM

Title: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 12, 2014, 07:54:31 PM
While I was tagging my music library during listening hours, something I do for 10 years now, I noticed THAT ALL MY Mood & Tempo tags are gone!
10 years down the drain!
I'm so sad now that I can't really put any effort into finding the cause, but I'm just reporting there is something very wrong with Musicbee.  I never use any mass tag editing or addons, but still this happened.
<b>(EDIT: At least not recently, but I did some spelling correcting once at least)</b>

Maybe when I have cried enough, I will try to find the cause.

(I am not accusing here, just sharing my feelings and reporting a probable serious issue with MB.)


:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: psychoadept on June 12, 2014, 08:03:34 PM
That's really frustrating!  I have a hard time imagining how MusicBee would do this all on its own, though.  Have you looked at the files with the Tag Inspector?  Have you done any mass editing recently?  What's the last time that you know those tags were present?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 12, 2014, 08:12:30 PM
That's really frustrating!

Say the least, but thanks for your sympathy.
Have you looked at the files with the Tag Inspector?
Just now, I checked some from the filter I made (1500 actually, not 2000, tit better :-/) And yes, they seem to be gone from the file.
Have you done any mass editing recently?
Not recently, but I did once use it to change a spelling mistake in a lot of tags.
 
What's the last time that you know those tags were present?
I am not sure, year ago?

-------

I think at the least this is going to compell me to make a backup plugin once (again, after crying out).
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: psychoadept on June 12, 2014, 08:44:54 PM
Hmm.  Yeah, it's gonna be hard to track down a cause without knowing when it happened.  Is there any correlation between the missing tags and the tracks you edited for spelling?  Unless there is, I think we can eliminate that as a cause.

One thing that gets me in trouble from time to time is MB's tendency to grab from the top down to whatever track I select, when I shift-select in a node or playlist I just opened.  Are these tracks with missing tags all clustered together in your library or anything like that?

Also, a long shot, but have you used Windows Media Player for anything at all?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: redwing on June 13, 2014, 12:22:52 AM
I'm just reporting there is something very wrong with Musicbee.

I am sorry for your trouble, but that's a big statement, isn't it? Yet, I don't see any evidence from your posts and can't think of any way MB could do that without the user's knowledge. Let us know if you find some.

I'd first check file modification date of files and try to figure out what kind of changes were made to them when and how.
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 16, 2014, 11:59:25 AM
Hmm.  Yeah, it's gonna be hard to track down a cause without knowing when it happened.  Is there any correlation between the missing tags and the tracks you edited for spelling?  Unless there is, I think we can eliminate that as a cause.
I don't remember which were the tracks or tags with spelling mistakes unfortunately.  But I think I might have done it with boroda's tool (that's the only one with search and replace, right?) (Not to blame, just surfing possibilities. Also see below regarding modified dates).

One thing that gets me in trouble from time to time is MB's tendency to grab from the top down to whatever track I select, when I shift-select in a node or playlist I just opened.  Are these tracks with missing tags all clustered together in your library or anything like that?
How can I know that? Because my order is now on "tempo" in my library and of course then they are grouped together.  And it might have been that I did a multiselect in that current order, but I can't know.
Although the modified dates would all be the same then, wouldn't they?  And they are not.
"Data modified" from my 1500 "tag-damaged" tracks range from 2004 upto 2014 without any big groups, quite divided.  Which, if you think about it, I find very strange on itself.  Does MB or MB addons sometimes NOT modify the date when changing tags?

Also, a long shot, but have you used Windows Media Player for anything at all?
Sometimes Windows Media Player opens when I click on some files that weren't linked to open with MB, but I then close it immediately.  I doubt it would do such a thing in such a short time without extra commands, would it?  (Does W.M.P. edit tags without modifiyng the date MB uses as "modified date" ?)

I'm just reporting there is something very wrong with Musicbee.
I am sorry for your trouble, but that's a big statement, isn't it? Yet, I don't see any evidence from your posts and can't think of any way MB could do that without the user's knowledge. Let us know if you find some.
Yeah, it was.  I don't see what else could have done it, besides MB and/or MB addons, but you can interpret it as "might very well be" in stead of "is".  I will report if I find anything, but I think it will be Don Quichote calibre...

I'd first check file modification date of files and try to figure out what kind of changes were made to them when and how.
See above.
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: redwing on June 16, 2014, 04:27:16 PM
my 1500 "tag-damaged" tracks

What's the exact damage? Out of all the tags of your files, only the values for TXXX/TEMPO and TXXX/MOOD frames were cleared? Or are there any other lost tags? Do they still have other TXXX tags such as replaygain tags?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 17, 2014, 12:57:33 PM
I just discovered also 748 tracks that lost rating.   :-[
Can't actively tell which other tags are affected; I just passively notice.

Further on, some of the tracks that lost mood and tempo still have TXXX/replaygains. Others have not, but might never have been filled in with replaygains; I don't know the working of this.

Further on, on the tracks that still have tempo and mood, these tags seem to be stored sometimes in COMM/Musicmatch_Tempo and COMM/Musicmatch_Mood, sometimes in TXXX/TEMPO (TXXX/MOOD) and even just TMOO.   But I also saw some  combinations of any of them.
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: psychoadept on June 17, 2014, 01:15:56 PM
I just discovered also 748 tracks that lost rating.   :-[
Can't actively tell which other tags are affected; I just passively notice.

Further on, some of the tracks that lost mood and tempo still have TXXX/replaygains. Others have not, but might never have been filled in with replaygains; I don't know the working of this.

Further on, on the tracks that still have tempo and mood, these tags seem to be stored sometimes in COMM/Musicmatch_Tempo and COMM/Musicmatch_Mood, sometimes in TXXX/TEMPO (TXXX/MOOD) and even just TMOO.   But I also saw some  combinations of any of them.


Ah.  We may be on to something.  I would expect that the tracks with COMM/ tags, and maybe the TXXX/TEMPO tags, are not actually showing their values in MusicBee, except in the Tag Inspector.  Is this correct?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 17, 2014, 01:42:44 PM
I don't think so.
As I said before and I tested like 10 more just now, the damaged-tracks don't have any tempo or mood in tag inspector.
To follow your train of thought, I checked 10 or so non-damaged tracks and MB always displays tempo and/or mood, for:
1. only has TXXX/MOOD and/or TXXX/TEMPO (6)
2. = 1 and COMM/Musicmatch_Tempo and COMM/Musicmatch_Mood (1)
3. = 1. and 2. and COMM with a mood inside (wth?) and COMM/Songs-DB_Tempo (wth?) and TXXX/TMOO (2)
4. =3 without TXXX/TMOO (3)

My brains hurt.
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: redwing on June 17, 2014, 02:12:20 PM
Did you ever see those tags with MB before for those "damaged" tracks? Could it be the case that those tags were never imported to MB because those "damaged" tracks had only COMM/ tags without TXXX/ tags?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 17, 2014, 02:22:36 PM
Did you ever see those tags with MB before for those "damaged" tracks?
I never paid attention to the exact "Tag Inspector" tags, but Musicmatch was my previous player (years ago) and MB did take it over and displayed the tags from it well for as long as I can remember (before the damage).

Could it be the case that those tags were never imported to MB because those "damaged" tracks had only COMM/ tags without TXXX/ tags?
No, I didn't change from another program to MB and then said "Hey, MB changed something", if that's what you mean. 
So, I h├íve seen those tempo/mood (and rating) tags before inside MB itself before.  I have been using only MB for years and since the first years  the above tags were just fine. untill the damage, which I don't know when.
(Though I have a lot of new music since then, and new ones are damaged too, because the modified dates run from 2004 upto 2014, at least if I can believe that field...bc. I think the tags were changed without changing the field "modified date"..must be)
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: psychoadept on June 17, 2014, 03:01:03 PM
I don't think so.
As I said before and I tested like 10 more just now, the damaged-tracks don't have any tempo or mood in tag inspector.
To follow your train of thought, I checked 10 or so non-damaged tracks and MB always displays tempo and/or mood, for:
1. only has TXXX/MOOD and/or TXXX/TEMPO (6)
2. = 1 and COMM/Musicmatch_Tempo and COMM/Musicmatch_Mood (1)
3. = 1. and 2. and COMM with a mood inside (wth?) and COMM/Songs-DB_Tempo (wth?) and TXXX/TMOO (2)
4. =3 without TXXX/TMOO (3)

My brains hurt.


Hmm.  For files with COMM tags, is there anything shown in the comment field?  Are there any files with ONLY COMM tags, and no TXXX/ or TMOO tags?

I ask because MusicBee discards tags that it's not configured to read when performing certain processes, including replacing and converting files.  I'm wondering if that happened here, although I think MB would read all of those.  The COMM tags are the only ones I'm not sure about.  I think I had to configure those as custom tags when coming over from Media Monkey.
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: Bee-liever on June 17, 2014, 03:24:11 PM
@ R U Bn ?
I may have an answer,  I just need one more bit of info please.

In Tags (1)> tag storage, what do have MB set to save MP3 tags as?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 18, 2014, 08:07:03 AM
@ R U Bn ?
I may have an answer,  I just need one more bit of info please.

In Tags (1)> tag storage, what do have MB set to save MP3 tags as?
(http://e-motiv.net/temp/MB%20options%20tags%201.png)
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on June 18, 2014, 08:11:32 AM
I don't think so.
As I said before and I tested like 10 more just now, the damaged-tracks don't have any tempo or mood in tag inspector.
To follow your train of thought, I checked 10 or so non-damaged tracks and MB always displays tempo and/or mood, for:
1. only has TXXX/MOOD and/or TXXX/TEMPO (6)
2. = 1 and COMM/Musicmatch_Tempo and COMM/Musicmatch_Mood (1)
3. = 1. and 2. and COMM with a mood inside (wth?) and COMM/Songs-DB_Tempo (wth?) and TXXX/TMOO (2)
4. =3 without TXXX/TMOO (3)

My brains hurt.


Hmm.  For files with COMM tags, is there anything shown in the comment field?  Are there any files with ONLY COMM tags, and no TXXX/ or TMOO tags?

I ask because MusicBee discards tags that it's not configured to read when performing certain processes, including replacing and converting files.  I'm wondering if that happened here, although I think MB would read all of those.  The COMM tags are the only ones I'm not sure about.  I think I had to configure those as custom tags when coming over from Media Monkey.
From the damaged ones or the non-damaged ones?
And is there a way I can find/search for those? Upto now I have just been checking tracks manually and randomly, but what you ask might take a long time without a specific "COMM" search, or do I just search for "Comment" with a MB filter?
[Edit]Oh yeah, and you mean "COMM" as written or "COMM/Musicmatch_Tempo" etc.. ?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: Bee-liever on June 18, 2014, 09:29:35 AM
Alright R U Bn ?
This is possibly what went wrong.

COMM/Musicmatch_Tempo and COMM/Musicmatch_Mood are your old Musicmatch tags.  MB reads and displays these tags but doesn't write them.
Whenever you save any tag changes to a file with those Musicmatch tags, MB creates the corresponding TXXX tag.
That you have TXXX/TMOO tags suggests that you have at one stage used ID3v2.4 tags as TMOO gets changed to TXXX/TMOO not TXXX/MOOD when reverting to v2.3 tags.  The COMM tags sometimes will also be stripped of their headers and be lumped together as just comments when this is done also.

If this is what happened, your Musicmatch tags may still be in the Comment field, but MB may not be displaying the multi-line comment field correctly.

Try viewing those files in MP3tag or MediaInfo or something that has a larger comment field viewer.  You might be lucky and the tags are still there.
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on July 03, 2014, 12:01:59 PM
Sorry guys, hadn't had time and frustration bit me hard, so I fell out of this topic.  So, with a bit of re-motivation:

Bee-liever, before I follow your suggestions, doesn't the post I made earlier with the 1-2-3-4 examples disproves your theory? If not, can you explain me why, so I look for the right things, please? Thanks.

Anyone, I am checking also another road: I made some backups ("accidentally") in the past from my music bee library. I wanted to check with an SQLite compatible database program if I can see what went wrong by comparing them with some queries, but I cannot get in. 
Does anyone know the password and/or if it is encrypted?  Thanks!

Bee-liever, this also makes me think: Your talking about file-tags only, but MB library's DB should have remembered, shouldn't it?
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: boroda on July 03, 2014, 12:52:56 PM
Anyone, I am checking also another road: I made some backups ("accidentally") in the past from my music bee library. I wanted to check with an SQLite compatible database program if I can see what went wrong by comparing them with some queries, but I cannot get in. 
Does anyone know the password and/or if it is encrypted?  Thanks!
MB database is not SQLite database, its a cache of in-memory data.
Title: Re: Lost 2000 mood and tempo tags!
Post by: e-motiv on July 06, 2014, 04:07:50 PM
Anyone, I am checking also another road: I made some backups ("accidentally") in the past from my music bee library. I wanted to check with an SQLite compatible database program if I can see what went wrong by comparing them with some queries, but I cannot get in. 
Does anyone know the password and/or if it is encrypted?  Thanks!
MB database is not SQLite database, its a cache of in-memory data.
Damn! Anyway to "connect" to it, besides MB?  (I don't see myself setting MB up for several DBs for this.)
P.S. How come the SQLite engine (http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Using_MusicBee%27s_Own_SQLite_Library) is included in MB?