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General => MusicBee Wishlist => Topic started by: blackwind on July 19, 2013, 09:59:37 AM
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I'm ever so close to making the jump to MusicBee, but one thing that'll keep me away until an alternative emerges is the queue system.
I don't understand "Now Playing" at all. My playlist is my primary queue. If I want a different set of songs, I'll make a different playlist. Why do I need a playlist for my playlist?
When choosing the next track, here's what fb2k and Winamp do:
- If there are items in the queue, the first one is played until it's empty.
- If shuffle is enabled, a random item from my playlist is played.
- If shuffle isn't enabled, the next track is played.
Meanwhile, in MusicBee, if I load my entire library and queue a single song with shuffle disabled:
- The track I queued is played immediately after the current one. So far, so good.
- Rather than playing the next track after the queued song in my playlist, it then plays the next track after the previous track.
- If I hit the "Previous Track" button, it goes back to the song I queued rather than the previous track in my playlist.
- If I later choose to listen to the track I queued again by selecting it from my playlist, the same songs that came before and after it previously will come before and after again.
Because MusicBee has more than one user (the author), clearly, not everyone is irritated by this design; as such, I'm not asking that it be replaced -- only supplemented with the queue system most players use and most people will be expecting when they make the switch. Make it an option. Don't make it the default if you're a true believer in the current method of management, but make it an option for those who aren't.
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Almost forgot to mention: This would need to be supplemented with either a "send files loaded from explorer to the following playlist" setting or an undeletable default playlist for the very same purpose.
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while i am not opposed to applying good ideas from other players, i also dont see the point of building a clone of foobar. Personally i find the foobar playlist oriented approach not something i like or find intuitive, and much prefer a library and now playing oriented approach - thats why we have MusicBee and other players as alternatives. If you are used to and like the foobar approach why not just keep using it?
I dont want to close down this discussion and welcome any comments. Maybe people agree that the current queing mechanism can be made better.
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If you are used to and like the foobar approach why not just keep using it?
There are many, many things I don't like about foobar and many, many reasons I'd switch to MusicBee if but a few requests were filled.
Truth be told, I don't even use foobar the "right" way -- I added my monitored folders, created an auto-playlist from them, and have been ignoring playlists ever since (for everything but files loaded from explorer, at least). Essentially, my configuration is an ugly MusicBee with a tenth of the features. It's not the playlist-oriented approach I want brought to MusicBee -- just the queue system, which seems to be the standard for media players (and for good reason).
Hopefully some of the others here share my view.
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What you describe is exactly how the now playing list works. So if you queue tracks from inside the now playing list you will get the exact same behaviour you describe.
On the other hand if you queue track from the main view those tracks will be added to the now playing list instead of creating "queue points". This functionality is missing from foobar, but as I said above you are not forced to use MusicBee like this.
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Foobar's lack of a now playing list is the number one reason I never stuck with it and will never use it. As much as foobar users can't understand the concept of a now playing list, I can't understand how anyone could possibly work without one.
I'm not sure what you're explaining when outlining your steps but if you queue the whole library it will play in the order you see. You can make playlists and play them in that order if you like.
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I don't understand the necessity of Now Playing Panel either. I mean it's almost the same thing as the Main Player Panel. I think is useful for those who use MB in Compact mode, or for those who use Artwork display & Playing Track Panel in the Main Player and Now Playing Panel in the Right Sidebar to browse for songs. What I don't like about the Now Playing Panel is that when I select an Artist/Album/Song or click on the All button in my Library Explorer, the Main Player Panel playlist changes but the Now Playing Panel playlist doesn't change, unless I start playing that Artist/Album/Song.
But I don't like to use Artwork display in my Main Player Panel, and I don't like the Track Browser either, I prefer using the Library Explorer from Left Sidebar. I didn't use Foobar that much, but I used Clementine for some time, and what I liked about Clementine is that they had a similar Library Explorer like MusicBee, but there music was sorted by Album Artist / [Year] Album by default if I remember right, and there when I was selecting an Artist/Album I was jumping in my Main Player to that Artist/Album and not having the entire playlist replaced with the selected Artist/Album like MusicBee does.
But in the end I like MusicBee more, and I like the library oriented approach too that's why I use the Library Explorer from Left Sidebar to browse for Album Artists / [Year] Albums (that's how I like having my music sorted), I use my Main Player Panel only to display tracks and my Right Sidebar to display Tracks Info & Lyrics. And here we get to one of my wishes: http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=10160.0
Second wish is about queue system obviously. I actually find more logical that "Previous Track" command to play indeed the last played track, queued or not. What I would like to see is a Play Queue Panel instead of the Now Playing Panel (which is useless for me anyway) in the Right Sidebar, where to see what songs I added to queue, and to be able to remove them if I want too. The only way I know how to see my queue list is ALTL+J and select there "Play Queue" (odd that we don't have this option in the Left Navigator Panel)
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What I don't like about the Now Playing Panel is that when I select an Artist/Album/Song or click on the All button in my Library Explorer, the Main Player Panel playlist changes but the Now Playing Panel playlist doesn't change, unless I start playing that Artist/Album/Song.
Why would it show in the now playing panel? If you click on an album in the library explorer you are selecting it to show in the main panel, not playing it. The last part your sentence says it all, unless you start playing that album/song. It is a now playing panel so it shows what you're playing or have queued.
But I don't like to use Artwork display in my Main Player Panel, and I don't like the Track Browser either, I prefer using the Library Explorer from Left Sidebar. I didn't use Foobar that much, but I used Clementine for some time, and what I liked about Clementine is that they had a similar Library Explorer like MusicBee, but there music was sorted by Album Artist / [Year] Album by default if I remember right, and there when I was selecting an Artist/Album I was jumping in my Main Player to that Artist/Album and not having the entire playlist replaced with the selected Artist/Album like MusicBee does.
You can change how the Library Explorer displays the library.
You're not replacing any playlist when you select something in the library explorer, you're just showing everything in that node you selected. If you just want to jump to an artist in the main panel you can type the first letter(s) or use the A-Z bar. Personally, I would not like the behaviour you describe, if I click on an artist in the Track Browser or the Library Explorer then I only want to see that artist.
Second wish is about queue system obviously. I actually find more logical that "Previous Track" command to play indeed the last played track, queued or not. What I would like to see is a Play Queue Panel instead of the Now Playing Panel (which is useless for me anyway) in the Right Sidebar, where to see what songs I added to queue, and to be able to remove them if I want too. The only way I know how to see my queue list is ALTL+J and select there "Play Queue" (odd that we don't have this option in the Left Navigator Panel)
I must be missing something here. If I have an album playing I can see that in the now playing list in the right sidebar. If I go to the main panel, right click on a song and choose queue next then I see that song in the now playing list directly under the song currently playing.
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- well I don't see the point of using both main panel and now playing panel since are pretty much same thing. like there is no point in using both playing track panel in the bottom main panel and and track information panel from right sidebar for tracks info and lyrics. I mean u either use the main panel for tracks and the right sidebar for track info and lyrics, or u use the main panel for albums artwork + track info + lyrics and the right sidebar for tracks (in the now playing panel). at least that's how i see it
- in Clementine u always see what u have in your library in the main player, but when selecting an artist u jump to that artist in the main player, not showing just the node u select. i don't mind how MusicBee works anyway
- well like I said, i don't use the now playing panel at all. just the main panel to see my albums & tracks and right sidebar for track info & lyrics. and the left sidebar for library explorer. that's how I like it. and I won't add a big panel like Now Playing in my right sidebar just to see 2-3 songs that i add in the Play Queue, option that i don't use very often (but with a simple Play Queue Panel I probably would)
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basshead, the now playing panel is pretty much what you're describing as Play Queue Panel. Have you tried having the now playing list in a tab of its own? With this you can see the queue list (now playing list) in the main panel, which I think is what you're asking for.
I understand you might not want to view that list all the time but it's no wonder you find it confusing finding what is in the now playing list if you use neither the sidebar panel or the list in a tab.
The thing is that people use MB in different ways. Lots of people use the main panel to view their whole library, whether in Artwork or Track Details view, and would never think of it as a view of what they are playing.
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What you describe is exactly how the now playing list works. So if you queue tracks from inside the now playing list you will get the exact same behaviour you describe.
Perhaps, but again, why can't my playlist just be my playlist? Isn't that why they exist?
If I attempt to play files straight from Library > Music, so be it -- stick them in a "Now Playing" playlist. If I create an auto-playlist for my library, though, why can't that playlist simply behave as "Now Playing" currently does?
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...which I think is what you're asking for.
Nope, what I'm asking for is to have a small panel that looks like "Now Playing Assistant >> Play Queue" window in the right/left sidebar, between navigator panel & library explorer, or between track info & lyrics. (I don't like floating windows at all)
And to be able to have "Playing Track Panel >> Details" in the right sidebar (check the link in my firs post).
This & This:
(http://i.imgur.com/FJ66X5u.png) (http://i.imgur.com/FJ66X5u.png) (http://i.imgur.com/6AJYzt0.png) (http://i.imgur.com/6AJYzt0.png)
- so in short a panel with just the queued tracks, not the entire playlist which is about to play.
- unfortunately, the Now Playing Assistants >> Play Queue shows only queued tracks added from the Now Playing Assistants >> Now Playing window, and not the queued tracks from the main player (bug?)
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I don't understand "Now Playing" at all.
That's because you're applying Foobar/Winamp thinking to the MusicBee way of working. When I came to MusicBee from Foobar, Winamp and every other music program ever written I had the same confusion. Now I can't imagine doing it any other way.
My playlist is my primary queue. If I want a different set of songs, I'll make a different playlist. Why do I need a playlist for my playlist?
In MusicBee, the Now Playing list is your playlist. Looking at Foobar again now, I see it has a library where tracks are selected and a playlist to send them to for playback. How is that any different?
Meanwhile, in MusicBee, if I load my entire library and queue a single song with shuffle disabled:
- The track I queued is played immediately after the current one. So far, so good.
- Rather than playing the next track after the queued song in my playlist, it then plays the next track after the previous track.
- If I hit the "Previous Track" button, it goes back to the song I queued rather than the previous track in my playlist.
- If I later choose to listen to the track I queued again by selecting it from my playlist, the same songs that came before and after it previously will come before and after again.
The behaviour of the Now Playing list is easier to follow when you understand that it will default to playing every displayed track from top to bottom. "Queue next" doesn't mean "start playing from this point on" as it does in Foobar. It means "Force this track to play next and then go back to playing tracks in order".
That's why you wouldn't really load your entire library into the Now Playing list (unless you actually wanted to listen to every single song you have). You use the Track Browser and main panel in the middle of the window to select the tracks you want and then send them to the Now Playing list for playback. The Now Playing list should only contain the tracks you're actually interested in listening to at the current time.
I'm not asking that it be replaced -- only supplemented with the queue system most players use and most people will be expecting when they make the switch.
I'd suggest spending more time using MusicBee to get used to its way of doing things before asking for such a major change just because it's slightly different to how other programs do things.
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Nope, what I'm asking for is to have a small panel that looks like "Now Playing Assistant >> Play Queue" window in the right/left sidebar,
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- so in short a panel with just the queued tracks, not the entire playlist which is about to play.
I'm confused. Isn't that what the Now Playing list is for? ???
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I'm ever so close to making the jump to MusicBee, but one thing that'll keep me away until an alternative emerges is the queue system.
After reading your other threads, I'll also add that for someone who wants to move away from Foobar and Winamp it sounds like you want MusicBee to behave a lot like Foobar and Winamp. :-\
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In MusicBee, the Now Playing list is your playlist. Looking at Foobar again now, I see it has a library where tracks are selected and a playlist to send them to for playback. How is that any different?
You can achieve the behavior I'm describing by creating an auto-playlist of your library, loading the foo_queuecontents plugin, and adding its panel to your layout.
That's why you wouldn't really load your entire library into the Now Playing list (unless you actually wanted to listen to every single song you have).
I do, in fact, want to listen to every single song I have.
In fb2k (and previously, in Winamp), I create an auto-playlist from my library, enable shuffle, and begin playback. When I want to listen to a specific song, I use a hotkey to load Media Library Search (or JTFE in Winamp), hammer out the song title, and hit enter. When I want to queue a specific song, I do the same thing, but hit "queue" instead rather than restoring the application and rooting around through my library. When I want to listen to the rest of the current album, I use a hotkey to disable shuffle. When I want to skip three tracks ahead in an album while shuffle is enabled, I use a hotkey that disables shuffle, skips to the next track, and re-enables shuffle -- three taps, and I'm on the song I want. Predictable behavior enables rapid-fire workflows like this, while the current MusicBee queuing paradigm will only slow me down.
When I'm not managing my library, I want my library management program out of the way. Again, there are many, many reasons I'd like to migrate over from fb2k, but I don't believe I should have to spend my day looking at MusicBee to accomplish simple playback tasks.
I'd suggest spending more time using MusicBee to get used to its way of doing things before asking for such a major change just because it's slightly different to how other programs do things.
Actually, as ma_t14 points out, all the requisite functionality is already present -- all that would be needed is an "Enable Now Playing?" checkbox, which, when unchecked, would move the queue numbers from "Now Playing" to playlist views and replace "Now Playing" with a queue contents editor (as in foo_queuecontents or JTFE).
I think the important thing to consider here is not the audacity of my request, but rather, how many potential users are being turned away from MusicBee every day because of this and *don't* come to the forum to complain or suggest a better way. By simply including an option for what I'm suggesting, that's one less barrier to entry. Surely that has to be a good thing?
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When I want to listen to a specific song, I use a hotkey to load Media Library Search (or JTFE in Winamp), hammer out the song title, and hit enter. When I want to queue a specific song, I do the same thing, but hit "queue" instead rather than restoring the application and rooting around through my library.
The Now Playing Assistant will do the same thing. Alt+J by default.
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how many potential users are being turned away from MusicBee every day because of this and *don't* come to the forum to complain or suggest a better way.
I don't imagine a lot are turning away because of that, quite the opposite in fact.
I can't see how adopting or adding a more convoluted system such as foobar's would improve musicbee. They're different programs and they function in different ways. As has been said, everything you've mentioned can be done already. Sounds like you need to play with musicbee more and become as at ease with it as you are with foobar. Or just stick to foobar if you prefer the way it works.
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The Now Playing Assistant will do the same thing. Alt+J by default.
Yep, but that's only one small piece of the puzzle.
I don't imagine a lot are turning away because of that, quite the opposite in fact.
Well, we'll see how this thread turns out in the long-term, I guess. One way or the other, it should be damn near trivial to offer what I'm suggesting as an option, but if no further action is to be taken until a sufficient number of complainers come out of the woodwork, I look forward to their inevitable arrival.
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In MusicBee, the Now Playing list is your playlist. Looking at Foobar again now, I see it has a library where tracks are selected and a playlist to send them to for playback. How is that any different?
Nope, what I'm asking for is to have a small panel that looks like "Now Playing Assistant >> Play Queue" window in the right/left sidebar,
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- so in short a panel with just the queued tracks, not the entire playlist which is about to play.
I'm confused. Isn't that what the Now Playing list is for? ???
No is not. Look at the above pic again. Let's say I want to listen all 5 VA - Electro Swing albums. I double-click in Library Explorer on the Album Artist and I get all albums nicely sorted by [Year] Album in my Main Panel. After I listen few tracks, let's say I want to listen those 3 queued Parov Stelar songs then continue with Electro Swing albums from where I left.
Now the problem with Now Playing is that it shows all 100+ tracks I already have in my main panel. What I want is the Now Playing to show only the queued tracks. To be like a temporary playlist. I don't want to scroll via 100+ tracks in the Now Playing that I already have in my Main Panel.
I want to see only queued tracks in my Now Playing list, and after a track is played to be automatically deleted from the Now Playing list. After all queued tracks are played the Now Playing list should be empty and the player should to resume to the next track from my main panel. (In other words, a option to hide all tracks in Now Playing list that are not queued)
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No is not. Look at the above pic again. Let's say I want to listen all 5 VA - Electro Swing albums. I double-click in Library Explorer on the Album Artist and I get all albums nicely sorted by [Year] Album in my Main Panel. After I listen few tracks, let's say I want to listen those 3 queued Parov Stelar songs then continue with Electro Swing albums from where I left.
Now the problem with Now Playing is that it shows all 100+ tracks I already have in my main panel. What I want is the Now Playing to show only the queued tracks. To be like a temporary playlist. I don't want to scroll via 100+ tracks in the Now Playing that I already have in my Main Panel.
I want to see only queued tracks in my Now Playing list, and after a track is played to be automatically deleted from the Now Playing list. After all queued tracks are played the Now Playing list should be empty and the player should to resume to the next track from my main panel. (In other words, a option to hide all tracks in Now Playing list that are not queued)
But any tracks you want to play are queued tracks. So as I understand it, you're saying you want to be able to make a sort of "queue within a queue" list. Which seems like a lot of effort to go to when you could just queue those three songs next, let them play and then let the albums continue playing as before.
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Hey blackwind.
Welcome to the forum.
Reading your postings the last few days, it's obvious you have a lot of knowledge, ideas and experience to bring in here. And the fact you are taking the effort to make your points and explain them further is great.
But just to be honest with you, the way you present some of it might prove to become counterproductive. Wordings like 'it should be such', 'it should behave like that' etc., and speaking for others that are not even active in this forum at all (so for arguments sake imaginary people) would not have my personal preference.
I'm not saying this to 'reprimand' or something (hey, I'm nobody and also kind of imaginary).
I am really only mentioning this so your ideas and suggestions will get the attention and possibly the implementation they deserve. Maybe you even have the ability to create some plugins in the future?
Maybe you also have some nice things to say about MB? If this is all a little difficult, then maybe it would indeed be better to stick with software you are used to?
Enjoy!
edit:
Sorry basshead, I messed it up a little, and addressed you at first.
(all those new bees ;-)
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Having just read this thread, I don't think people are being clear enough about what feature they're using
or how they're trying to use it. People are using the word 'queue' with cross-purposes, for example.
For sake of clarity....
There are three features being talked about:
(1) The 'now-playing' node (located at the top of the Playlist panel), which displays in the main pane.
(2) The 'now-playing list', which can be enabled in the left or right panel.
(3) The 'now-playing assistant'(which includes the 'now-playing' list and a special 'play queue' list).
The now-playing node (1) COLLATES tracks from several sources (Eg. static and auto playlists, Auto-DJ, and manually selected tracks) into one long list of queued tracks. MB either plays through the list of tracks using the 'play order' number in the # column, or it randomly picks 'play order' numbers when 'shuffle' is enabled.
The 'now-playing list' (2) is a mirror of the node, but it doesn't have the sorting and grouping options that the node has. Its main purpose is to display your queued tracks in a side panel when you haven't got the now-playing node selected.
with shuffle disabled
If you want to re-order/remove/add tracks in the now-playing queue, you should be doing it in the now-playing node or panel, and you should actually be dragging the tracks into the order that you wish. You should NOT be using the 'queue next' right-click option that puts blue box next to a track (which over-rides the 'play order' number) because when that blue list exits, MB will just carry on down the list from wherever the last blue box was.
with shuffle enabled
Obviously shuffle means 'play the now-playing list in an unordered, random way'.
But sometimes while shuffle is on, you want some temporary order and control in the middle of the randomness.
However, dragging tracks to order them into a desired sequence is not going to work (because shuffle chooses random 'play order' numbers).
That is what the 'blue-box' system is for.
You can choose 'queue next' directly in the now-playing pane/panel, putting a numbered blue-box beside the tracks, which then temporarily over-rides the shuffle. However your blue-boxes may be scattered throughout the list in an unordered fashion (since you cannot order the list by the blue-box column). That is why the 'now-playing assistant' (3) is there to help you. Its main purpose is to display the blue-box sequence for you in the 'play queue' pane so you can review and refine the sequence more easily.
Finally, because shuffle is enabled it doesn't matter where the blue-list exits; MB just keeps shuffling as it did before the 'interruption'.
'now playing assistant' confusion
The 'now playing assistant' also allows you to add tracks to the now-playing list, and I think this is why people are getting confused about the assistant's purpose and usage.
The biggest confusion seems to be not understanding how the blue-box 'play queue' is different from the 'now-playing' queue, and that normally you shouldn't need to use the 'play queue' system unless you regularly insert ordered tracks whilst shuffling.
The next biggest confusion seems to be that the 'play now' and 'queue next' behaviours are different depending on where and what you're right-clicking on in the assistant, which also differs from the behaviour when you right-click in the main pane or the 'now-playing list' panel. But the differences make sense if you understand the assumptions MB is making about why you're clicking in a certain pane/panel/window.
If in any doubt, you should be editing your queued tracks directly in the now-playing node/panel - it's more powerful, easier to understand, and has consistent behaviour. Forget about the Assistant unless you have used the blue-box system to order some tracks whilst shuffling and want to review the sequence.
Apologies if you read all that and didn't learn anything new!
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I for one am totally in favor of the current system. It might not be intuitive for F2k/Winamp users, but once you get used to it it's quite powerful.
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Having dabbled a lot with foobar2000, I find MusicBee approach much more convenient, logical and intuitive.
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