getmusicbee.com
Support => Questions => Topic started by: DKDiveDude on May 20, 2016, 03:13:26 AM
-
Wow this is the worst piece of crap ever! Just my honest opinion guys!
I mean why not go the full monty and let users set their preference via machine code?!?
I am definitely uninstalling this crap, and going back to the latest version before 3.0, as I do not have time to sit for hours on end to find out how to configure the panels like I had them before.
Many things totally suck, I finally found out how to browse to "My Computer" and the folder where I have my music and it created a tab/ However when I click a subfolder with files, it "auto-idiotic" removes the panel with my drive and folder and creates a new tab even though there may NOT be any music files!?! Why?
I then have to click the Tab with the computer drive and folders TWO TIMES to bring it back into view! Why?
And if I hover my mouse back out over the left panel with the folders and then away the whole panel disappears?!? Why?
And I can't even do something as simple as clicking and dragging the width of panels?!? Why?
FAIL, SUCKS, FAIL! Worst program interface ever!
-
I'm going to be kind and not say what I'd really like to say because this forum has always been civil.
You really have a hell of a lot of nerve blasting the software's interface when you obviously haven't spent any amount of time exploring it. Many of your complaints are easily corrected if you took the time to figure it out. Or had the common decency to ask us how to do something.
But since your first post is so crass, I'll be damned if I'm going to help you since you obviously won't take the time to read my suggestions.
-
Looks like some people have problem configuring left navigator from the default auto-hide to show state. I can see it might not be obvious for some people that it can be configured from panel layout editor's tab override section especially when they're new to v3. iTunes got the same complaints from users when it started hiding left sidebar by default. They ended up adding "show left sidebar" command under view menu (now it's no longer needed with the introduction of playlists mode).
-
thats a good suggestion redwing and i think i will do that, although i suspect the DKDiveDude's of the world will struggle with any change made
-
Wow this is the worst piece of crap ever! Just my honest opinion guys!
If you want to be understood, do it like:
When I do so, and then so, and then so.
Then the following happens:
But I would expect this:
Screenshot with Preferences section relevant to problem helps.
And when we are at crap - don't try to touch any enterprise software ever with your sensitivity- you will blow up, splattering everything and everyone around with blood and entrails.
-
further to redwing's suggestion, i have also added a pin button to the popup. So for the default configuration where the left sidebar is auto-hidden, when a user clicks "+" the sidebar popup will include a pin button so the user can easily have the left panel permanently open
http://musicbee.niblseed.com/V3_0/MusicBee3_Patched.zip
-
i have also added a pin button to the popup.
Great idea! Few would miss the button when they want to keep it open.
-
Although the OP's post does not invite any help, I am wholly sympathetic with his frustrations. I am completely new to MusicBee (having been a Winamp devotee for decades) and thought I'd try it out based on Lifehacker's recommendation after upgrading my OS to Win10. Here is my experience of trying to customise the layout:
"What - the - actual - f#$@??"
I am so completely overwhelmed by the highly unintuitive interface settings—I repeat, highly un-intuitive—that I don't even know where to begin in asking for help. I click things and it does things or doesn't do things. Then I click other things and it does exactly the same thing as clicking different things, so why are there different things?
In genuinely trying to understand it, I seek out the Wiki. People have clearly devoted a lot of their free time in assembling the information and trying to explain the interface. But they are hamstrung by jargon. Caption bar. Header bar. Top panel. Tabs bar (aka toolbar). Ticked elements. Stacked elements. Thank you, Wiki contributors; I really do appreciate the effort, but I don't know what you're talking about. It's like studying a new subject in university, but I am not interested in devoting that kind of time and effort to something of such inconsequential importance as customising a music player. If I wanted to put in that amount of time, I'll learn a new language like C++.
Honestly, this really is my experience. Complete bafflement. And I'm no slouch with computers. I am just so utterly befuddled by the unnecessarily complicated complexity.
This is very poor UX design. The fundamental rule of design is that it should be intuitive. But as this is an open source project, it strikes me that the design has been, effectively, by committee. That's a real shame because I'm a great believer in open source. But I wonder if there were ever any design principles dictated in such a flat hierarchy as open source development. Development still requires guidance.
So, I'd love to ask for help, but I am so far off the learning curve on this that I don't know what to ask. I'll likely uninstall MusicBee :( and dabble with Music Monkey or whatever it's called before reverting to the old, outdated but comprehensible Winamp.
-
Although the OP's post does not invite any help, I am wholly sympathetic with his frustrations. I am completely new to MusicBee (having been a Winamp devotee for decades) and thought I'd try it out based on Lifehacker's recommendation after upgrading my OS to Win10. Here is my experience of trying to customise the layout:
"What - the - actual - f#$@??"
It's a pity you are so confused and disappointed at the moment.
I can sympathize with some of your frustration, remembering myself starting to use more advanced software such as MS Access, VueScan, foobar, Daminion, etc. with each their own interfaces and 'logics'.
For all such more advanced software, you'll have to invest some (usually a lot of) time and effort. If you are not able or prepared to do that, it's probably just not for you.
Just curious, for how long have you been trying to learn MusicBee now?
Besides Lifehacker and other review sites, check out what all these 'normal users' are saying about MusicBee:
http://getmusicbee.com/forum/index.php?topic=4506.0
So I think it's fair to say that the bulk of features and possibilities that MusicBee offers should not be too hard to learn if you are willing to.
F.y.i. there have been some proposals to give the configuration panels a bit more structure and some more space for some better explanation about it's functions. So that might happen in the future.
But since MusicBee is (in contrary to what you believe) not open-source, and it is being programmed by one single developer, that might take time, if it is going to happen.
-
You know, if you tell us something you're trying to accomplish, there's a good chance someone could give you a step-by-step.
As for the names of parts, we've tried to name them as accurately as possible (tabs bar = where the tabs are, header bar = where panel headings are), but I know there are a lot of different bits and it's hard to keep track of them all. That's what screenshots are for. Not all of the wiki is up to date, but most of the major layout parts are. Do the screenshots not help?
I strongly recommend spending some time with the Panels Configuration window (the live version) to get familiar with the layout. The different pieces are named and highlighted for you in the diagrams: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Panels_Configuration
-
Thank you both for your encouraging replies. I read through some of the appreciation thread, and that provided further encouragement. Clearly a lot of people really believe in this player. Honestly, it strikes me as a great player, too. Out of the box it works great, and the import of all my (thousands of) albums was seamless. It's really just the customisation that completely does my head in.
Hiccup, I've only been using MusicBee for less than a week, but I've made no headway whatsoever in understanding the panels configuration. Things disappear and come back, and settings I select don't do anything or do things that seem completely unrelated. Maybe it's just the way I learn things, but I like to dive in and play around, getting my hands dirty to get a baseline understanding of how a piece of software works, before drilling into more specific detail. None of that has borne any fruit. Not yet, anyway. I appreciate your advice that I'll just have to put in a bit of time to try to get my head around it.
I strongly recommend spending some time with the Panels Configuration window (the live version) to get familiar with the layout. The different pieces are named and highlighted for you in the diagrams: http://musicbee.wikia.com/wiki/Panels_Configuration
Thanks for the recommendation, Psychoadept. This is what I was doing. It seems I'm just going to have to put aside a day rather than a just few hours, knuckle down and study.
PS. Not sure how I got the impression it's an Open Source project. Learning that it isn't doesn't help me understand the design approach, other than to respectfully say that the sole designer needs to go back to first principles.
-
I strongly recommend spending some time with the Panels Configuration window (the live version) ...
By the way, what does that mean? The "live" version? Have I been using a different version?
-
PS. Not sure how I got the impression it's an Open Source project. Learning that it isn't doesn't help me understand the design approach, other than to respectfully say that the sole designer needs to go back to first principles.
While MB is not open source, it has also gotten as good as it is by the source of hundreds of users making suggestions, requesting features, and testing them out thoroughly over many years.
And of course an incredible developer who listens and responds to almost all sensible input and requests.
You still have a fresh 'newBee' view on things, and that might result in some suggestions to perhaps further improve on some area's.
But you will probably find that it won't be easy to make specific suggestions on improvements that don't have very complex (often negative) repercussions on other workings.
But do feel free to share any specific suggestions.
That's what made MusicBee what it is today.
Good luck, nice travels, amazing discoveries, etc. etc., and I am pretty sure in a few weeks or months you will also be posting in the appreciation thread...
-
Even though he is very rude and use a lot of inappropriate language and tone, I must agree that for a newcomer (like this DKDiveDude plank) it might be a little confusing and frustrating to set everything up since MusicBee has so many options for UI layout and players preferences as well. In an era of PC users being thought not to use their brains extensively and want everything set up out-of-box it actually might be a good idea to consider something like predefined sets of UI layouts (4-6 maximum) to choose from once they fire MusicBee up for the first time and later they can customize it as much as they want to.
It shouldn't be that much of a problem since UI layout is already in MusicBee3Settings.ini file anyway. Just make several MusicBee3Settings.ini files with thumbnail to chose layout, or even better, hence the MusicBee3Settings.ini file is an xml file you can subgroup UI part of it in couple of sub-sections for as many UI layouts you want to offer. Foobar2000 and some other apps (video players mostly) has some kind of layout picker anyway. It is a little hassle to make it, but it would help users (especially new ones) a lot when starting with MusicBee.
-
I agree in large measure with Solonaut. So much configurability and user customization, a tweaker's delight.
If that's what you're in to and want to spend a lot of time with it. And then keep futzing with it. It's remarkably adept at allowing for that.
But if you just want a music manager and player and don't care about the width of columns or the placement of panels or the just-right html color code on your scrollbar, then it's overkill. I'm glad I discovered MB in the 2-version era when it was a LOT simpler to get started with.
Many, many opening posts by newcomers to the forum reflect some of this befuddlement expressed in the posts above. The potential to be overwhelming is great in the latest version. It seems as though many find it extremely difficult to use out-of-the-box. Can't find stuff, many terms are not obvious to what they refer, a click gives an unexpected result.
These are all issues that the core group of dedicated members have been answering over and over. They're (you're) a good group of fans and over and above in the willingness department. But the system you're helping with is problematic in the ways described. To be honest, a lot of what has changed from 2.5 to 3 seems to me to be change for change's sake.
Upon install, I think there should be a Basic and an Advanced version that can be displayed/selected by the user, with the Basic mode as default. Get somebody up to speed and comfortable. Then press the "Advanced" button and use it as a sandbox then to screw around with and see what does what. It it goes south, revert to Basic and have it look like it did before.
Or something. I don't know. But look at how people get confused or lost...that's a red flag. You have to appeal to the lowest common denominator of experience and patience.
I think MB is great--the library system, the database-like backend, the tagging tools, and player. I'm not changing; I am, however, staying put at 2.5.5804. That was the sweet spot for me.
I'm trying to be constructive and offer an assessment of someone who mostly lurks now, watching from the sidelines. None of this should be construed as gratuitous criticism. It's only that I see all the options and tweaks as overcomplications to an already complete product. How many cupholders, seat adjustments, and ride levelers do you need, so to speak.
The forum, on the other hand...totally in need of some modernization. ;) Looking forward to that.
Edit: Stefan posted while I was composing. I second the notion of in-built layouts. We were on the same track there.
-
I strongly recommend spending some time with the Panels Configuration window (the live version) ...
By the way, what does that mean? The "live" version? Have I been using a different version?
I just mean as opposed to the wiki. One thing that might be instructive, though it will create some chaos, is to simply add ALL the elements at once in the panels configuration window (except the panel splitter, which is literally just a flag to tell MusicBee to separate groups of panels). Make sure none of the tick boxes (aka check boxes) to the right of the elements are selected, because that's what causes them to be stacked together. Also make sure that all the sidebars are set to be shown. By default the left sidebar is in "auto-hide" mode, which means it only appears if you mouse over the left side of the screen.
The result will be ugly, but allow you to compare what you see in panels configuration with what you see in the main window to get a sense of what each piece is. Feel free to post screenshots with questions if you want something explained.
-
I can understand that new users could have a an issue with the (somewhat) steep learning curve of MB3 (I still don't think it's anywhere near as bad as foobar), but I just don't get the 2.5 to 3.0 version update backlash.
Why weren't those users expressing their views and offering constructive criticism during the months of testing that the MB3 beta went through?
-
Even though he is very rude and use a lot of inappropriate language and tone, I must agree that for a newcomer (like this DKDiveDude plank) it might be a little confusing and frustrating to set everything up since MusicBee has so many options for UI layout and players preferences as well. In an era of PC users being thought not to use their brains extensively and want everything set up out-of-box it actually might be a good idea to consider something like predefined sets of UI layouts (4-6 maximum) to choose from once they fire MusicBee up for the first time and later they can customize it as much as they want to.
It shouldn't be that much of a problem since UI layout is already in MusicBee3Settings.ini file anyway. Just make several MusicBee3Settings.ini files with thumbnail to chose layout, or even better, hence the MusicBee3Settings.ini file is an xml file you can subgroup UI part of it in couple of sub-sections for as many UI layouts you want to offer. Foobar2000 and some other apps (video players mostly) has some kind of layout picker anyway. It is a little hassle to make it, but it would help users (especially new ones) a lot when starting with MusicBee.
I also considered options like those. But I am personally not sure they would work very well.
Programs like foobar have some layouts to choose from when you start it up for the first time.
I used foobar quite often, but I am still getting confused when I have to make such a layout choice before even beginning to use the program.
I appreciate that MusicBee out of the box starts with a layout that is very complete and makes sense by default.
Most users without more advanced needs and investigative nature will be (and are) happy with the default layout.
Presenting newbees with layout choices they will not understand (because they are new to MB) would not solve any problem in my opinion. Probably even the contrary.
I also considered what it would bring if having a basic, and an advanced operating mode.
But apart from Steven probably not being eager to having some sort of split-features versions, it would probably also raise other questions and confusion.
"What mode are you running MusicBee in?", "No, you can only do such and such in advanced mode".
And what features exactly should and could be blocked, or be hidden then?
-
Actually I think MusicBee could benefit from pre-installed layout presets. This is the way I first learned how to setup Foobar.
http://www.groovypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/image75.png
-
MusicBee did have pre-configured layouts at one point. I'm not sure exactly when they were removed, because absolutely nobody said anything at the time.
-
I also considered options like those. But I am personally not sure they would work very well.
Programs like foobar have some layouts to choose from when you start it up for the first time.
I used foobar quite often, but I am still getting confused when I have to make such a layout choice before even beginning to use the program.
I appreciate that MusicBee out of the box starts with a layout that is very complete and makes sense by default.
Most users without more advanced needs and investigative nature will be (and are) happy with the default layout.
Presenting newbees with layout choices they will not understand (because they are new to MB) would not solve any problem in my opinion. Probably even the contrary.
I also considered what it would bring if having a basic, and an advanced operating mode.
But apart from Steven probably not being eager to having some sort of split-features versions, it would probably also raise other questions and confusion.
"What mode are you running MusicBee in?", "No, you can only do such and such in advanced mode".
And what features exactly should and could be blocked, or be hidden then?
The way I think this could work is to create layouts users are somewhat familiar with and choose from those once they start MusicBee. With MB3 it is almost endless in possibilities for layout. Maybe a couple of them to chose like foobar/winamp/itunes look-alike layouts. And once user start messing around with layout MB3 should save that as CustomLayout preserving these I mentioned, just in case user wants to start over again. Steven might said if this is even possible with MB3 as it is right now, just to know not to go with this thread that way if something like that is not possible.
-
This thread is useful for throwing around ideas and opinions on this matter.
But for Steven to consider it, it would be best to have it presented as a specific wishlist item. (with possibly a reference to this thread)
But I am pretty sure there is already at least one wish for this.
(I am sure I created one myself a while ago, requesting to have the option to have presets for complete MusicBee layouts)
So that wish, or other existing ones could be supported (possibly with additions or nuances to it), or new ones could be created.
For myself I stick to the belief that it should not be presented by default to newbees, but it would be nice to have presets available, created by more experienced users.
Similar to available skins.
I might even argue that MusicBee wouldn't need to have different skins integrated at all, but have alternatives easily available through downloads. But let's not open that box of discussion here ;-)
-
I feel like it should be pointed out that the number of layout combinations hasn't really changed that much from 2.5 to 3.0. Only the way they're selected, by a consolidation of most of the layout options to a single panel.
-
i think the ability to save and load preset layouts is something that should be done for v3.1 and some presets should be included.
I agree the number of layout options can be overwhelming for a new user, especially for people that dont look at the wiki. Maybe it is time to have an Advanced button for the preferences dialog.
Personally i think v3 is quite simple to use other than there being a lot of layout options and for the panel configuration, i expect even with the information button showing detailed text doesnt really help ie. maybe it should popup a screenshot of the element rather than text.
I dont think a couple/few negative posts really makes much difference to me in that view. Everyone is wired differently about how they approach things/ have certain pre-existing ideas about how an application should work, etc - this isnt iTunes where the options are very limited and hence simple to use by the lack of choice.
-
this isnt iTunes where the options are very limited and hence simple to use by the lack of choice.
Hear, hear!!
-
I am using V2.5 and I'm a real fan of MB.
But I have read the wiki for V3.0 and read the posts here and to be honest I am dreading upgrading to V3.0.
I know it will take me many hours to get MB to function / look as I would like it to be. Its an old cliché but 'too much choice leads to confusion'.
I really like the idea of a choice of std layouts the User can select to get MB up and running from the get go. Then when I have some time, I can 'play' with the settings to see what suits me.
I want to enjoy my music first and tweak later.
Congrats on an excellent music player.
-
I'm similar to Jeddie I think. It's not that i can't work it out, but just that 2.5x is working great and I don't really have the time to go back to square one to learn v3. i guess when there is an alluring feature I can't resist I will start dabbling, or when I get more time maybe. I'm retired now, but busier than ever! haha
-
Well, I see I'm not alone, then.
Backlash indeed. --It's not backlash at all. Like the others, after reading the beta thread as it was developing, and looking at the wiki, it's simply more trouble than it's worth to try to futz it back to looking like it does now, when the underlying functionality is apparently unchanged.
I agree with this notion: "when there is an alluring feature I can't resist", well then maybe. Until then...
My current MB works great, is less filling, and does everything a proper player/manager should do. It's a grand piece of work.
-
That's all perfectly understandable.
Still, my honest advice would be to jump into the new ship.
It is quite likely that sooner or later you will run into issues with the good ol' v2.5 which will never be addressed.
Including tutorials, skins, add-ons etc. etc.
This is a good momentum to switch, since there is still a lot of activity going on around new features and changes, and chances are big that in case you have difficulties with the changes, you will get help, or your voice and opinion will be heard to even improve v3 further.
And also, I really feel that the impact, and the assumed amount of changes in v3 are being exaggerated in this thread.
I myself would say it's 90% improvement, 10% some doubts and some needed learning adjustments.
And if you still have doubts, just run a portable version of v3, and give it an honest effort.
edit:
@bossman, perhaps the moment has come to lock this thread?
Certainly not because a lot of input and opinions here aren't valuable, but the topic starters attitude, and title he chose for all this has by now had more attention than it deserved.
Anybody feeling the need just to declare that he/she will stick to older MB versions can do that somewhere else under a possibly more positive umbrella.
-
i expect even with the information button showing detailed text doesnt really help ie. maybe it should popup a screenshot of the element rather than text.
This seems like a great idea
-
It is quite likely that sooner or later you will run into issues with the good ol' v2.5 which will never be addressed.
Point taken, however I don't know what that would be. I don't need a tutorial, I'm not changing its appearance, the in-built media keys function optimally, and it plays files and streaming stations without hiccup. (heh heh)
As I wrote above, the version I have now, as configured, is the sweet spot. Steven would really have to make me an offer I couldn't refuse (as encompassed in a new release) to make an upgrade attractive. 3.0/3.1 isn't it.
-
Also, I think the thread title is just right for getting eyeballs on the topic and, one would hope, soliciting additional comments or suggestions. The OP was assholish about it, but his point is not entirely without merit.
-
I don't disagree with what you are saying.
My point is that MusicBee (and that also goes for v2.0, 2.5 etc.!) became as good as it is by concrete and specific suggestions and requests by many contributing users.
But people just saying MB is too complicated, not to their taste, etc. is fine, but it is not contributing to anything.
So I would think that if users such as you and others in this thread have specific suggestions and constructive criticism, that would be more than welcome, and could well help to improve certain aspects of the bee.
But there is a very well-proven way to do that here, and it's The Wishlist. Or perhaps start a topic with the purpose of assembling and discussing useful and specific suggestions that might actually be implementable.
But this thread as it is mainly seems to attract users that state that they don't need or like v3, or that it is just too complex and too difficult for them to adjust to. That has now been said.
Now let's progress...
-
Also, I think the thread title is just right for getting eyeballs on the topic and, one would hope, soliciting additional comments or suggestions. The OP was assholish about it, but his point is not entirely without merit.
Skoop is spot-on: this is exactly how I found this thread. Through frustration! I vented in the search bar: SO UNNECESSARILY COMPLICATED! Ha ha. :)
Also, on the suggestion of pre-defined layouts... I was actually looking for that. I see by this thread that it doesn't exist, but the fact I was looking for it does suggest some newbees would do the same.
-
And incidentally, the reason I popped back into the forum here is because I just put a CD into the drive... and I have no idea how to play it in MusicBee. Come on. That is ridiculous. These are UX red flags...
I've decided MusicBee (at least, v3) is not for me. The levels of frustration in just trying to do the simplest things are through the roof. I do not want to spend thirty minutes going through all the menus, then checking forums, then potentially asking for help, just to play a CD. I want to relax and play a CD, not tear my hair out.
I love being able to customise a music player. It looks like MusicBee embraces that philosophy wholeheartedly, and I applaud that. But the execution is — sorry — just terrible. I am uninstalling it.
I am going to try v2.5.5804 as I do want to like MusicBee and don't like giving up.
-
I love being able to customise a music player. It looks like MusicBee embraces that philosophy wholeheartedly, and I applaud that.
given your posting history i find that a little hard to believe. Perhaps iTunes is more suited for you.
And incidentally, the reason I popped back into the forum here is because I just put a CD into the drive... and I have no idea how to play it in MusicBee. Come on. That is ridiculous. These are UX red flags...
you play CD tracks exactly the same way you play files from anywhere else
i'm locking this topic as the vague negativity of some of the posters isnt really adding any value. If you want to raise specific concerns where you are able to articulate the issue and why its an issue, then please feel free to create a new topic