Author Topic: Ratings syncing and Android  (Read 23085 times)

zartemis

  • Guest
I'm trying to move away from iTunes and my iPod Touch (to an EVO android phone).  I'm having trouble finding a good solution to displaying and keeping ratings in sync between my phone and my PC.

Here are the minimum features I'm trying to replicate:

1. PC software that can import my ratings from iTunes
1. PC software that can generate smartlists and sync them to my phone
2. Android music player software that can display ratings as it plays and allow them to be changed/set.
3. PC software that can sync ratings changes from the phone back to the PC.

I don't care whether the ratings are in a database or a file.  Nor what tag is ultimately used if it is the file.

I tried DoubleTwist, but on my 20,000+ track collection it is way too slow to be useful (otherwise it meets my needs).
I tried isyncr but the only way to view ratings as the song is played on android is via a kludgy widget view (taking up one of my UI screens).

So, I'm checking out MusicBee.  It imported my itunes ratings just fine and was very quick on 20,000 files.  But to view the ratings on Android, I'd have to write them to a tag and find a compatible Android reader to display and change them.  I noticed that by default, the imported ratings are not written to a file tag.  If I changed one, then it was written to a POPULARIMETER tag.  Is there a way to have it bulk write all the rest of the song ratings to tags if I want it to do that?

Also, I haven't yet found an Android music player that uses this ratings tag (anyone know of one?).  However, the Real Music Beta player for android will read 'RATING MM' tags and display them.  Is there a way to get MusicBee to use this tag for ratings (and sync this tag back from the device?).

Steven

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34361
If I changed one, then it was written to a POPULARIMETER tag.  Is there a way to have it bulk write all the rest of the song ratings to tags if I want it to do that?
no bulk write function for ratings

However, the Real Music Beta player for android will read 'RATING MM' tags and display them.
if you are using MP3Tag, RATING MM is actually the POPM (POPULARIMETER) tag which is standard for MP3 files

Is there a way to get MusicBee to use this tag for ratings (and sync this tag back from the device?).
currently MB can only synch ratings back to the main library for iPods

i've heard DoubleTwist is very slow with synching but i believe they are working on resolving that

zartemis

  • Guest
Thanks for the info.  I've since found out that Real Music Player is very Beta.  It currently won't even do playlists.  So it's out.

I'll live with isyncr for now and hope that DoubleTwist improves in the future.

Spam.Trashed

  • Guest
Hi everyone!

I found this old thread, and I'm in the same boat two years later--HTC Evo Design 4G, MusicBee for PC, looking for a sync. 

Would anyone have an update for options to sync back?

I'm currently using PowerAmp as my Android player, but I don't even know where to look to see how it stores ratings.

Thanks for the help!

Spam.Trashed

  • Guest
Hi again!

I've got a bit more information and more questions

I've tried using PlayerPro as my Android music app.  It was highly recommended and it has six different methods of handling ratings.  They are:
     PlayerPro
     Windows Media Player
     Winamp
     Media Monkey
     Export Media Stats to an .xml file: iTunes format
     Export Media Stats to an .xml file: Songbird format

My Musicbee (2.0.4551) is set to save tags as ID3v2.3.

Could anyone help me figure out which Musicbee setting I need with which PlayerPro setting to match up and handle ratings sync?

Thanks!
     

Spam.Trashed

  • Guest
And more info, from the PlayerPro forum:
http://www.aplayerpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=89
________________________________________
"Audio files: PlayerPro can read ratings embedded in your music files (POPM tag). "
"Each desktop player uses a different rating scale. Make sure to select the right player to keep your ratings up-to-date each time you sync your phone to your PC."
"External library: PlayerPro can import ratings from an external library. Two formats are currently supported: iTunes and Songbird. See the next section for more details."
"To export PlayerPro music statistics, use the > Export music stats > Songbird option. PlayerPro will generate a file named "exported_[DATE]_Songbird.xml" in your "sdcard/PlayerPro/Stats" folder. Use the RatingFile add-on to update your Songbird library with this file."
________________________________________

Does that help at all?

Thanks!

Spam.Trashed

  • Guest
Final update for the night:

PlayerPro seems to be editing the ID3 tag properly.  After I change the rating, then look at the file on the phone's SD Card, I can see the star rating I gave it (viewed via File Properties - Win7 64bit).  PlayerPro has done this with multiple Ratings Settings--Media Monkey and Winamp.  So the file encoding seems to work.

As a final test, I browsed to the SD Card and changed the rating in File Properties, and then had MusicBee sync the device.  The rating did not appear in the Removable Disk's Library in MusicBee, nor in the proper MusicBee library.

This seems to be a problem with MusicBee reading the change from the ID3 tag when it syncs back to the device.  I tested--changes in MusicBee do sync down.
Can anyone tell me what's going on?  Does MusicBee only do a one-way sync?

Thanks!

Steven

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34361
musicbee only does a one-way sync for MSC mode synching
and for MTP mode can be enabled in the 2nd tab for 2-way sync. However MTP mode gets the rating information from the MTP database and not the file rating stored in the file.
So you should be able to set the rating in MB (as it writes the rating the same way that MediaMonkey does to the POPM tag) and sync the file but not have MB updated with a new rating set in the device.
If i have understood this issue correctly you would need to add this to the wishlist so that MSC mode is changed to support reading the POPM tag and updating MB from the device

Nazgulled

  • Guest
I'm also on the same boat and my Android player of choice is PlayerPro. This is something I want to investigate further between PlayerPro and MusicBee and then make my suggestions (if any is needed) to Steven (or/and to PlayerPro's developer) to improve the whole thing between the 2 applications.

I intend to test both of the apps thoroughly before making any comments. This will also help both developers if they don't have to waste time and do the dirty work themselves. I don't mind helping this way and then just tell them "hey, this is how it works and this is what I recommend to do".

But right now I don't have the time for this, I'm very busy, but very soon I will dig into this problem...

HansBKK

  • Guest
I am also very interested in this issue. Currently using FLAC files, but need to investigate what happens when converting to MP3 for portable usage, also planning on using Android, seems like this player has flexible options.

What MB does with my FLAC seems very straightforward, RATING tag with 20/40/60/80/100 for 1-5 stars. I believe this is MediaMonkey's syntax as well? Is this also the case for MP3 that MB follows MM's "standard"?

MP3Tag is very flexible for working with tags, and has built-in support for the top Ratings structures, including windows (WMP), MediaMonkey and Winamp.

MP3Tag can be configured to display MB's field as stars with this column formula:
      $repeat($char(9733),$div(%rating%,20))$repeat($char(9734),$sub(5,$div(%rating%,20)))

and for Foobar2000 :
      $pad($repeat(?,$div(%rating%,20)), 5,?)
(you probably can't see the Unicode stars, but copy and paste it should work)


------------------

Totally off topic, but when rating my FLACs, I noticed that MB added an ENCODER tag, and deleted my ALBUMARTIST tags and replaced them with "ALBUM ARTIST" - all silently. Bad bad bad behaviour for a player app, but easily fixed by MP3Tag's "mapping" feature.

Otherwise MB looks like the bee's knees.

Steven

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34361
Totally off topic, but when rating my FLACs, I noticed that MB added an ENCODER tag, and deleted my ALBUMARTIST tags and replaced them with "ALBUM ARTIST" - all silently. Bad bad bad behaviour for a player app, but easily fixed by MP3Tag's "mapping" feature.
when you rate a song with mediamonkey it also rewrites all the tags according to its naming concentions.
If you use version 2 from the weekly updates topic, it now writes ALBUMARTIST and when rating a song it also doesnt update other tags any more
Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 08:30:43 AM by Steven

HansBKK

  • Guest
I've done a bit more detailed analysis on how MB's implementing Ratings.

First, an enhancement request - my own personal preference would be to also allow the user to specify for ID3 (and all other file formats) a generic TXXX "Rating" field with 0/20/40/60/80/100, in other words matching MB's current Vorbis/FLAC. This will allow my FLAC files to be played on the PC as normal, and then when converting over to MP3 for export to my portable handheld, the rating tags will carry their data over from the original, just as the other more standard fields do.

MB seems to follow the MM "standard" in that it's using the "no@email" identifier, which is what causes MP3Tag to identify the field as "Rating MM" when the internal value is 40 80 or C4 (196). However I think the four 00 bytes following the significant byte, or perhaps some other departure from MM's scheme is what's causing MP3Tag to display it as a generic POPM ("Populimeter tag") when the internal value is set to 01 or FF (255).

For those thinking that MB is actually switching to a completely different tag structure for 1- and 5- star ratings, that's not true, it's just that MP3Tag is "mapping" the generic ID3-spec POPM tag to "Rating MM" "Rating WINAMP" and "Rating WMP" based on whose scheme the data in the frame is matching. MB just happens to come "close enough" to MM's, but just not for those two values.

Steven, if you believe that you're writing precisely the same POPM strings that the current shipping MM does for all five values (and BTW "zero" is/should be IMO a valid rating in addition to "unrated" = "remove the field"), then I'd suggest posting to the MP3Tag forum asking that they fix their bug and allow files rated by MB to be interpreted correctly.

Otherwise of course bringing your values into precise alignment with MM would of course be helpful to this almost-but-not-quite-hopeless cause of having cross-application Ratings compatibility.

when you rate a song with mediamonkey it also rewrites all the tags according to its naming concentions.
If you use version 2 from the weekly updates topic, it now writes ALBUMARTIST and when rating a song it also doesnt update other tags any more

Thanks for the information. The fact that there aren't true standards in this space does I suppose encourage devs to try to enforce their own ideas, since most users don't know or care about the underlying tech details. And this is somewhat more understandable for apps that claim to be full-fledged "library managers", but definitely IMO not appropriate for players.

I just found out that on my plain-vanilla Windows 7 system, using Windows Explorer's "Properties -> Details" interface to set a rating on an MP3 file causes **ALL tags other than the main six** to get completely wiped out.

Now there's an extreme example of what not to do, what a total cockup, but of course we've come to consider such madness par for the course from the Redmond crowd over the years.

We expect more from the independent professionals. . .

I feel very strongly that any app in this space should have configuration options to **not mess with tags** for users that do know and care about the implementation details of their meta-data.

Finally, I think it's great that you're now using ALBUMARTIST, that's in line with most other mainstream apps, even the Foobar crowd switched over a while ago. Just out of curiosity, why does (did) MB set the ENCODERSETTINGS field, what does that in practice accomplish?

Thanks again for a great application, and I hope to see it continue to improve, you seem very responsive to feedback.

sebx42

  • Guest
Any news on this?

Like the posters above, I am looking for a way (other than iTunes) to sync song ratings back from Android to MusicBee. Unfortunately, Android does not seem to reveal song ratings via MTP, so the 2-way sync via MTP mentioned above is not an option.

But, would it be possible to add a function to mass storage mode to sync ratings stored in the files back to the MB library?

gordonpn

  • Guest
A little more than a year later.. Has anything changed since? I'm a new MusicBee user and loving it, I just wish there was a way to two way sync ratings with Android.